Cause and effect

Geo-TH,In · Nov 25, 2015

I took some tin to scrap yard today and the place was empty. I talked to the lady in office. She
said people are sitting on their scrap waiting for prices to return. I asked about layoff and she
said they had to let people go. So I asked her why are prices in the toilet. She said China quit
buying. I asked why? Her opinion, "China is trying to influence our election." I asked how will
China not buying our scrap change our election? She had no idea and I can't see the connection.

Well the cause and effect: low scrap prices people are getting pink slips Are there fewer thefts
because of low scrap prices?

Are oil workers getting pink slips because of low gas prices?

I heard on news Pfizer?s?Merger?Proposal With Irish Company ... to avoid high US corporate
taxes. Cause and effect: Raise taxes and companies move offices out of US while leaving the business in US.

Please don't turn this in to a political rant or I'm sure Poof!!!!!!!! Take about cause and
effect, not nnalert or repub.

David G · Nov 25, 2015

Low oil prices definitely make for layoffs in the oil industry.

There is a shell game going on in Ireland that the EU might stop, companies are putting an office there with only a couple of people and calling it headquarters to avoid taxes in many countries.

Greg1959 · Nov 25, 2015

Geo-TH,In- You gonna put a lot of faith in what someone says that is working at a scrap yard in Podunk?
The China economy is in the dumps and keeps falling. Their consumers are not buying like they use to. No need for them to buy heavily in scrap right now.

paul · Nov 25, 2015

Yea, China is slowing their growth rate from near 8 to maybe only half that. They have had some major ecconomic growth the past decade. Now, not so much.

Coupled with the USA dollar being worth more... Not because the USA is in such good shape, but because all of Europe is in rough shape, and Asia too is falling backwards faster than ipus.

The higher dollar value is something USA politicians and bankers want - either party makes no difference - so they are trying desperately to raise the value of the dollar.

The higher dollar helps Wall Street but it makes our commodities - scrap iron, corn, wheat, soybeans, fuel, etc - worth very little.

And so scrapers and farmers and others in commodities will struggle again.

China's ecconomy is a big part of that.

Paul

moresmoke · Nov 25, 2015

Some layoffs in the ND oilfields, but the big difference is the roughnecks only working 40hr weeks. No more 100 plus hours. A family can live on a regular week, but it doesn't buy jacked up diesel pickups!

As others have said, US dollar is worth more, commodities go down. I cleaned out most of my scrap when the price was up, now I'll just pile it till next time.

jimg.allentown · Nov 25, 2015

I'm sure that some clerk in a scrap yard has a real good handle on the business and why things are down now.....NOT!!!
How about this? A guy goes into an auto parts store to buy a part for his car. He asks the counterman questions about installing said part. So, who is smarter? A $100/hour mechanic or this $8.00/hour parts clerk? It always amazes me that folks will ask advice of the LEAST QUALIFIED person.
Scrap prices were almost artificially high because of the boom in manufacturing in China. That boom has passed, and prices, supply, demand, et al will settle down to realistic levels. A strong dollar means that the material that China buys from us costs them more. It also means that they get less from what they sell us. That certainly slows down their economy.
In reality, it all comes down to economics 101. Supply vs. demand. Those folks holding on to their scrap will at some point cause a shortage of sorts and the prices will begin to rebound. BUT, if everybody that sees prices rise dumps their scrap all at once, it will make prices tank again. There does come a point when it is no longer economical to hold onto scrap waiting for higher prices.

chucksoliver77 · Nov 25, 2015

Can you imagine how much steel Ford is not buying now with the new aluminum F 150 and so to come super duties. Maybe that has something to do with the low price of steel ??????????

pete 23 · Nov 25, 2015

I think George said he didn't see any connection with her analysis, not that he was taking her opinion to the bank in any way. Just idle chatter at a counter.

CenTex Farmall · Nov 25, 2015

I would say China has far more influence with the amount of US debt that they own.

omahagreg · Nov 25, 2015

I am a trim carpenter in Omaha, working for a pharmacy installing accessibility into peoples homes. Their are 4 carpenters already, a fifth one is temporary, and I heard they need more as the work keeps stacking up! The temporary guy is the story here. He quit the pharmacy about a year ago to be a train engineer with Burlington Northern-Buffets company! He was hauling coal to power plants. He got laid off because the natural gas price is so low the power plants are not burning coal. Also, the crude oil price is so low they are not fracking in North Dakota, so not many trains needed!

Hobo,NC · Nov 25, 2015

Are there fewer thefts
because of low scrap prices?

No they just have to work harder for there habit...

I sell every 2/3 years I will hoard it till its worth my time... Used fixable cars went to scrap I could not buy them and make money are if I gambled and it was to expensive to fix it I was just trading money. Most of the time I lost a little unless I could salvage catalytic converters and such... I keep a few junk cars around and throw what scrap I don't think is worth sorting out in them... One day the sorted out scrap will fetch a good ransom.

Hoenes · Nov 25, 2015

Pfizer being the latest. Merger with Allergan in Ireland. No US taxes, then they should not be allowed to sell their products here. Sell them in Ireland.

Alan K · Nov 25, 2015

Well said.

Bob · Nov 26, 2015

"Please don't turn this in to a political rant"

NOT possible, since everything involved/mentioned is routinely manipulated for political gain.

I can't believe you did not realize that, 'ol George!

DLMKA · Nov 26, 2015

(quoted from post at 18:14:44 11/25/15) Geo-TH,In- You gonna put a lot of faith in what someone says that is working at a scrap yard in Podunk?
The China economy is in the dumps and keeps falling. Their consumers are not buying like they use to. No need for them to buy heavily in scrap right now.

The Chinese economy is NOT falling. It's rate of growth dropped from 9-14% of the last decade to a much more modest 3-4% (which is what US politicians would love to be able to claim). Still growth in GDP in China, just not as much, as fast. As a result they need fewer resources (steel being one) to meet the demands of production and infrastructure growth. If anyone thought that China was going to continue to grow at double digit rates forever they are a fool. Need to find the next semi-stable (politically) undeveloped nation and exploit the cheap labor and spur economic growth for the big bankers to bet on.

Geo-TH,In · Nov 26, 2015

That bugs me too, move office off shore and there is a tax loop hole. Don't fly a US flag on a cruse ship operating out a US port, no taxes. I would like to see tax holes closed instead of taxing those who stay more.

WGM · Nov 26, 2015

Can some one provide a list of these"tax loopholes"?

Bret4207 · Nov 26, 2015

(quoted from post at 20:16:34 11/25/15) Yea, China is slowing their growth rate from near 8 to maybe only half that. They have had some major ecconomic growth the past decade. Now, not so much.

Coupled with the USA dollar being worth more... Not because the USA is in such good shape, but because all of Europe is in rough shape, and Asia too is falling backwards faster than ipus.

The higher dollar value is something USA politicians and bankers want - either party makes no difference - so they are trying desperately to raise the value of the dollar.

The higher dollar helps Wall Street but it makes our commodities - scrap iron, corn, wheat, soybeans, fuel, etc - worth very little.

And so scrapers and farmers and others in commodities will struggle again.

China's ecconomy is a big part of that.

Paul

Well done Paul. It's nice to see someone that understands what's actually going on.

Bret4207 · Nov 26, 2015

(quoted from post at 21:25:36 11/25/15) Can you imagine how much steel Ford is not buying now with the new aluminum F 150 and so to come super duties. Maybe that has something to do with the low price of steel ??????????

And yet Alcoa just had to be bribed with taxpayer dollars and near free megawatts of electricity to keep their plant in Massena NY open. Ford is likely buying it's aluminum from overseas.

Bret4207 · Nov 26, 2015

(quoted from post at 07:19:56 11/26/15)

(quoted from post at 18:14:44 11/25/15) Geo-TH,In- You gonna put a lot of faith in what someone says that is working at a scrap yard in Podunk?
The China economy is in the dumps and keeps falling. Their consumers are not buying like they use to. No need for them to buy heavily in scrap right now.

Click to expand...

The Chinese economy is NOT falling. It's rate of growth dropped from 9-14% of the last decade to a much more modest 3-4% (which is what US politicians would love to be able to claim). Still growth in GDP in China, just not as much, as fast. As a result they need fewer resources (steel being one) to meet the demands of production and infrastructure growth. If anyone thought that China was going to continue to grow at double digit rates forever they are a fool. Need to find the next semi-stable (politically) undeveloped nation and exploit the cheap labor and spur economic growth for the big bankers to bet on.

China has had some serious issues over the past couple years. Perhaps saying the Chinese economy is failing is not entirely accurate, but you have to admit they have withdrawn and changed their financial habits drastically over the past year or 2. When one of the big central gov't players alters it's playbook, things ripple out through the world.

keh · Nov 26, 2015

All the presidents who made even reasonably good economic policy decisions are dead.

KEH

Andy Martin · Nov 26, 2015

(quoted from post at 05:36:41 11/26/15) Can some one provide a list of these "tax loopholes"?

There are no "tax loopholes". just valid tax deductions voted by congress, things like you can deduct the cost of fertilizer before you pay income tax on the crop you raised and sold. Those deductions are intended to spur the economy. If tax was only on retail price of sales, the income tax rate would be a lot lower but many items (like all farm commodities) would still be taxed too heavily because the margin of sales price over total cost is too great. If farmers were allowed to deduct the cost of owning land, say even 1% of the value of land owned, they would make a lot more money. How many struggling farms have a couple of million in debt free land? (answer, the stable ones) But Congress has never voted a deduction like that, but there are deductions like that in other industries to encourage the ownership of the assets required for those industries. Years and years of manipulation makes for a complicated tax code, and none of us want to lose the deductions that allow us to be in business.

sotxbill · Nov 26, 2015

THE PROBLEM IS....... When the US government trIES to tax moneys made in OTHER countries... that causes a problem. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A PROBLEM WITH PAYING TAXES ON MONEY MADE IN THE US.

That is why we have inversion. It because the US government thinks that they have a right to all the money made in other countries....ONLY if the company is US owned can the enforce this illegal taking of funds. [b:6789aa3e58]If it is foreign owned[/b:6789aa3e58], then the US can only tax the money made in the US and not the other countries.

SO "INVERSION" IS ALL ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT TRYING TO STEAL MONEY MADE IN OTHER COUNTRIES.

Sorry but they have NO RIGHT TO MONEY MADE IN OTHER COUNTRIES!!!!! Just as I have no right to your money, nor do you have a right to my money.

Only idiots and communists dont understand this.[/u]

sotxbill · Nov 26, 2015

Correct!!!.. TAX LOOPHOLES are simply tax rules for ALL of us that are passed by congress. There are tax deductions for companies to setup retirement 401k plans for employees... ALL companies and business in America get to deduct costs of setting up 401k plans no matter who owns them, rich, poor, foreign owned or US owned.

Government allows this so that the "workers" benefit, and save for retirement. Other TAX LOOPHOLES are similar in that they encourage a business to spend or act in a way the helps everyone else. There are tax loopholes that allow farmers to write off losses in disasters so they can come back the following year.

DO NOT BLAME BUSINESS FOR USING THE TAX CODE. REMEMBER THE GOVERNMENT SET THE CODE TO ENCOURAGE CERTAIN THINGS TO HAPPEN.

If you dont like credits for business setting up retirement plans, medical and health plans. deductions and tax credits for buying and replacing your equipment, being allowed to deduct your seed cost, and labor cost, then go to an underdeveloped country.

The flat style tax codes they have do NOT encourage savings plans, or growing and getting bigger, or medical plans, giving to the communities, deductions for cleaner air, or cleaner water plans, so companies never grow and go out of business when anything changes. They do not allow cost of changing out equipment to be deducted so the plant and equipment can never be replaced. Business get tax credits for expanding and creating more jobs. Those type of deductions allow the cost of expansion to be spread out over the life of the plant so you can afford to pay it off. Then everyone gains, even the taxing entities gain by more property taxes, more payroll taxes, more employees buying homes and spending money.

wilson ind · Nov 26, 2015

Its not Podunk, it's Terre Haute Indiana. Cannot even find a Podunk town or city listed in the USA!!

chucksoliver77 · Nov 26, 2015

(reply to post at 09:25:52 11/26/15)

Bret, Ford is buying it's aluminum from Alcoa, they just finished developing a new process to make it easier to form and produce with Alcoa. Chuck

jacksun65 · Nov 26, 2015

cause and effect, anything a company can do to put more money in their pockets they will do it. Lie cheat steal all is good for bottom line. companies have no political or national affliation anymore.

Bret4207 · Nov 27, 2015

(quoted from post at 19:18:59 11/26/15)

(reply to post at 09:25:52 11/26/15)

Click to expand...

And exactly where is the aluminum being produced? As I understand it from the news up hear Alcoa only has 3 US plants like the one in Massena. If you can show all the aluminum Alcoa is selling Ford is US produced, then that's great. If it's not, then it would explain why Alcoa is abandoning it's US plants.

Cause and effect

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