Houses one more time

NY 986

Well-known Member
The story is that there is a farmer not too far away that when he bought a farm that had a house he would bulldoze it down. He apparently did this to houses that were in good condition as well as houses that were put out of their misery. He decided it was not worth the bother to rent or sell to bad neighbors. I don't think this guy was especially wealthy but since homes here are worth the better part of 100,000 dollars nowadays I really wonder how many he has knocked down lately. Another story I heard was a farmer had partially demolished a new acquisition when his son came roaring in to have a fit about it. Apparently, the old man had plum forgot that he agreed to sell it to the boy and the son had already made the arrangement for the financing. Further, this happened several months before the old man was diagnosed with dementia.
 
In Ontario farmland is not taxed,only the buildings are. So when a farmer acquires a second or third farm it is in his financial interest to tear down all buildings that he isn't going to use. There is a backlash from this. The rest of the people living in that municipality are saddled with the tax that these farmers are no longer paying. Even though these land owners enjoy the benefits such as roads,road maintenance,fire and police protection and general services provided in the municipality, they are paying no tax. I see the point of the landowners but their gain of not paying tax is simply passed on to others.
 
Many farmers and others do the same thing around here too. I think it is a waste but it is their property to do with as they see fit. Many do not want to do the "work" it takes to make rental property work. To me it is just like any other business, If you work it like a business you can make money at it.
 
A little different here but the bottom line is if a building is torn down that is reflected in the tax assessment which includes the land for the parcel. The farmer in the first example just did not want any neighbors and was willing to make a financial sacrifice by not selling the houses. If I had to guess quite a few were ready to condemn to begin with. In the second example the son lived in the city and was going to buy the home, fix it up, move in and sell the city home. That would explain how the father got as far as he did as no one was around other than the mother I would guess and she got on the phone to the boy at the office in the city. I don't personally know either farmer or know the township here. Just stories that were passed along in that the teller was usually good at knowing what they were talking about.
 
Personally I might find it hard to tear down a good home, HOWEVER if the dude didn't want to pay the taxes on it and maintain it and mess with all the hassles of renting, I UNDERSTAND AND RESPECT HIS CHOICE TO DO AS HE PLEASES WITH HIS OWN PROPERTY regardless what I or others think about the situation. I'm a believer in personal property rights provided I'm not harming my neighbor as that infringes on HIS property rights.

That's my story n Ima stickin to it

John T
 
Micheal, I pay property tax on all my Ontario farmland. Yes it is taxed at a lower rate than the house + 1 acre which is full residential, but it is far from tax free. Steven
 
I farm and I understand how to manage a farm. I do not want the additional management of a rental property. I understand why other farmers don't either. Depending on the location of the buildings, that may interfere with my farming operation and having a renter complicates things as some of them don't respect farmland and will do damage to the crops or park junk where machinery needs to run.
 
If you've ever had a bad renter you would understand why he dozed the house. Even worse, a country house "sold cheap" to any jack leg *&^ that has the down payment is only an invitation to having a neighbor that causes nothing but trouble for you.
 
You are either a people person or not.

If you are, you may also be a landlord.

If you are not, you may own a D7.

I have a D7.
 
If they can reclaim several acres of farm ground and put it back into production, they might make more money than if they rented the house.
 
If farming that acreage produces more net income, then bulldoze the house and grow crops there. We are already losing millions of acres to subdivisions, why not put a little land back into production? If the acreage is on junk sandy, gravely land then maybe the hassle is worth it money- wise. I know I sound unsympathetic but the dollar talks in my mind.
 
I understand the point about a potentially bad tenant or bad neighbor. I question the economics as if a house is not in great shape but still worth 40 or 50 thousand dollars it is going to take a lot of crops to offset the loss. Quite a few houses here are the only building on a given track as the barns had long since fallen down because the house owner had nothing to do with farming or had long since given up farming and did not have the money to maintain the farm buildings. So for the most part the farmer is only gaining 2000 square feet or there abouts. Again, I understand that as long as it is not hurting anybody the owner is free to do as he or she pleases but at least locally I would say the decision is not rooted in economics unless heading off a potential future lawsuit can fall in that category.
 
Lot of rental problems depend on the area and state law. About 15 years ago a friend inherited his parents home and decided to rent it out. Most of the people renting in our are low income people many of whom are on welfare (sorry, I don't all it assistance. Assisting someone means they are trying to do better. Nor do I call it an entitlement and entitlement is earned.). Now at the time the state did not pay rent welfare directly to the landlord because "it made the welfare bums feel bad about themselves by not actually making the payment". The first winter was a hard one here. In January social services called my friend and told them that the renter had used all the heat welfare they could get and he, the landlord had to pay to fill the propane tank. Then they stopped paying rent. Took almost a year to evict these people and he never recovered a cent. It got so bad that social services started buying houses. Now here is the catch. Only way the state would approve that was with a time limit for the welfare recipients to live in one of these state owned homes, which is now about 6 months. Still almost impossible to collect rent or evict if you have rental property and wind up renting to someone on welfare. Can't refuse to rent to them either, that's discrimination. There is no way that I would own rental property in this state. The state who's governor recently stated that we would still, after the attacks in Paris, welcome Syrian refugees and any residents of the state who didn't like that should move out of the state. This guy is telling people who earn money and pay taxes to move so we can have more folks on welfare who just may hate us and wish us dead.

Rant over.

Rick
 
I bought a place that joins me at foreclose auction last year. In Alabama the person who lost house has a year to come back pay the bank and reclaim lost property. So I let it sit a year untouched. Weekly some yahoo would come up to my house wanting to rent to own it. My wife and I would even get called at work or stopped in town asking about house. Anyway got a contractor set up to take it down get that over with. So I can see someone tearing one down.
 
Renting to those on public assistance is complicated here, too. Trouble is if you inherited a house in the village that is about all you are going to get with tenants. If a town is close to a state prison then quite a few renters are either employees that expect to be transferred at some point or relatives of a convict who have chosen to live near their incarcerated relative. Often they are free to move because they are on public assistance back where they came from. You might think the prison employee would be a better class of tenant but from what I hear that often is not true. Most people seem to become guards because it allows them to control others versus performing some public service. If they have a bully mentality it tends to follow them when they are not on the job. I know somebody that has a guard for a neighbor and that person said he could definitely do better for a neighbor.
 
(quoted from post at 08:37:24 11/23/15) I bought a place that joins me at foreclose auction last year. In Alabama the person who lost house has a year to come back pay the bank and reclaim lost property. So I let it sit a year untouched. Weekly some yahoo would come up to my house wanting to rent to own it. My wife and I would even get called at work or stopped in town asking about house. Anyway got a contractor set up to take it down get that over with. So I can see someone tearing one down.

MN does that too. One of the wife's aunts and uncles passed about the time I retired from the Army. They had something like 5 kids and had owned a lake resort for years. One of the daughters was a user and they never refused her anything. The other kids were doing well and they left the resort to the user and her bum husband. They sold the resort as lake lots and bought a 160 acre farm so she could have a couple of horses. Now they had paid cash for the farm but then mortgaged it. Then they got foreclosed on. They begged anyone in the family, us included to help them out but everyone refused because they were tired of the mooching. They wanted us, my wife and I to take over payments but let them live there "rent free" because they would be taking care of the land. OH, they didn't want anything signed on that to include transferring title to us. Well the bank finally got them out of there, waited before they put it on the market per state law. The banker, guy who we do business with called and ask if I would be interested and I told him no because of that year grace period law here too. They spent the entire next year begging family members to make up the back payments so they could get the place back after it sold. Now they won't talk to any of us. I don't think anyone misses them, not even her brothers and sisters.

Rick
 
oldtanker- "Can't refuse to rent to them either, that's discrimination. "

The way I get around that is: Sec 8 has guidelines that the house must meet. i.e.: A handrail
must be installed on all stairways, inside and out. When inspector comes to inspect the house
to make sure it meets all the guidelines. Just make sure that a few of the guidelines aren't
met.

Inspector will give you a list of things to be done before house will be approved for rent. You
tell inspector that you don't want to make these 'improvements". He'll tell you that the house
won't be approved for Sec 8.

Problem solved.
 
On a similar subject. I live not too far from where several builders have model homes. Sure is a shame to see a fairly new home demolished when they want to build a new model. Be nice if they could move them or something ?
 
When we got this place, it came with 3 adjoining rental properties, all of which turned out to be troublesome. We've since gotten rid of two, and the last which we're keeping for the 5 acre woodlot that goes with it, has been a money sink hole, lastly with a tenant that ended up not paying for his last 6 months. He got injured at work, was off for quite a while, and we suspect he got addicted to pain meds, so there was never enough $ left to cover rent.

Anyway, this farm, two owners ago, the fellow tore down an old barn that wasn't being used and was needing some major rehab, and the town RAISED the taxes over $200/yr because the assessor claimed removing the barn improved the property. Of course, 200 is only a small portion of the over 6k we "owe" every year for a ramshackle house and barely standing barn on 20 acres. By the assessors logic, if we leveled it all and lived in a tent, it might cost us even more.
 
In the early 80's my then boss had rentals. He would spend every weekend repairing all of the damage done by the last renter. He would have to go to the county court house at least once a month to start eviction of the dead beats and no pays. It would take 6 months to get them out. That was 30 years ago, I can't imagine what it is like to try and get the dead beats out now. That truely soured me on ever having rentals.
 
$40,000 or $50,000? Bad tenant or neighbor can cost you tens of thousands in cash, then add the soft cost your time.... Rent a $40,000 house to the wrong tenant that know the system and you'll have that in it easily when they come after you to MAKE you bring it up to what a government official will call a livable standard and existing codes. Drink water from a well, you'll pay for rural water hookup. Propane furnace is 30 years old - you'll be buying one of those too. No central air - that's criminal.
 
(quoted from post at 08:56:38 11/23/15) oldtanker- "Can't refuse to rent to them either, that's discrimination. "

The way I get around that is: Sec 8 has guidelines that the house must meet. i.e.: A handrail
must be installed on all stairways, inside and out. When inspector comes to inspect the house
to make sure it meets all the guidelines. Just make sure that a few of the guidelines aren't
met.

Inspector will give you a list of things to be done before house will be approved for rent. You
tell inspector that you don't want to make these 'improvements". He'll tell you that the house
won't be approved for Sec 8.

Problem solved.

Greg not sure here but I think if you fail that inspection here you can't rent it to anyone at all until it's brought up to state rental codes. And the people running social services here will check.

Rick
 
Nope. The house has to be in total compliance with their guidelines BEFORE the unit is approved to rent. I just refuse to bring it up to their code. They can't make do it.
 
We had two houses on farms that could have been rented. We sold the good one to be moved off the farm and burned the other one to eliminate trouble and liability.
 
There was a decrepit house on the farm SWMBO co-owns with her sister. The renter demanded she replace the roof. She said it's not worth it, but the renter could have it done if he so wished. Renter said he would move out instead. As soon as he left, the dozer was called in. Renter later changed his mind, wanted to move back in. Unfortunately for him the house is now under ten feet of Indiana farmland.
 
I always said if I bought one with a house on it I'd level it. I guess if one of my kids wanted it,it would be a different story but I wouldn't rent it out.
There's a BTO here that levels the entire place when he buys one. They bought one with a fairly large potato packing facility on it and even leveled that.
 
I like the way you think. I think I'd fall into the D7 category. Either demolish the house or get paid little to let some scum live in it. Yeah. Tough decision.
 
I bought the original farm house to my place this past summer. It has had two owners since I bought the farm and each one came with a different set of problems. It's amazing how proprietary people can get when they buy 2 acres in the middle of your large acreage...like they own it all. I tell them to stay off. They tell me they are not hurting anything, they don't care, etc. Then they try to dictate where I can build, what I can raise, and the hours I can work. For my own peace of mind, I really had no choice other than to rejoin the house and lot with the original acreage. Somebody can live there...or not. I can live there if I need to...or not. The grass can be mowed, garbage piles and junk can be left laying around in plain view...or not. I now hold all the cards.

It's funny but, before the ink was dry on the original purchase I pointed at the farm house property and told the family we would never be able to keep a friendship going with anyone who owned it. We owned all the land around it and it was just human nature that they would begin to resent us for it. Heck, now that I own it, I'm not so sure I like me either! ;)
 
ROFL! It's true, though. Old habits are hard to break! I joke with my wife about it. I sit in the barn and look up at the house and wonder what mischief I am up to now! That would be fairly normal. The part I am not used to is sitting in the dining room of the house eating my lunch and looking at the barn and wondering the same thing! It was a weird situation before and it's not much better now. :)
 
I often wondered how the county finds out things. I was hiding old trucks, and junk behind my barn out of sight of everyone. One time I was at the city offices trying to see where a sewer line goes. They brought up a rather large clear picture of every thing I had. We didn't spend much time on that picture. I moved on real quick. Nothing is safe now days. Stan
 
we normally turn 30-50 % return case in point bought mobile home 2400 spent 1000 renter pd for it by renting in 18 months now it turns 75%---sure beats farming---just got one in foreclosure for 12500 had loans at 36000--should be clear in 4 years
 
You are correct,I knew better than that as soon as I read your post...lower rate on farmland,higher on buildings and school tax on buildings too
 
Our field across the road from my house has a junky house at the one corner that was for sale for $24,000 for a couple years with no buyers, it sets on less than half and acre. $24,000 was a bit steep to the neighbor next to it that wanted to buy it and knock it down. The neighbor offered 10,000 for it but was declined. This place is rough, a foreclosure. It was sold last fall. The neighbor inquired to a contractor working to get it liveable what it was bought for. The contractor stated he bought it for a couple of his employees families to live in for $6,000. This contractor had had a house in a nearby town that his "employees" had been working on that was discovered was a meth lab, my sister in law lived across the road from it. Only a couple of the "employees" got in trouble for it, as they had allegedly been cooking meth after hours, and no one else knew about it supposedly. Well, same contractor owns house at forner of our field for his "employees" and their families to live in. My sister in law identified the cars there as the same ones at the previous meth lab across from her house. Now there are cars stopping there at all hours and random people that go by there honking. Many of these people come from the village up the road that has about a 10% employment rate, and a 90% assistance rate. Anyway, this house at the corner of our field throws their trash in our field. Diapers, bags, containers, boxes, yogurt cups, snack wrappers, you name it it is in our field next to their house. And their push lawnmower I later found with the chisel plow in the tall grass along our field and their yard. I kicked every diaper back in their yard, picked up every piece of their trash and threw it back in their yard in a pile and tossed a rock on it so it wouldn't blow back into our field. When the tenants saw me throwing their trash back into the yard, they all went inside and hid, as I was pretty upset with the whole deal and they knew it. The neighbor on the other side has the same trash issue with them as well. The house is barely liveable, I know the "septic tank" is a fuel barrel under the porch. I hate to be nasty, but if it comes down to it, I'm pretty sure a lot of the things going on there would slow them down if checked on.

Ross
 


land with no one living on it is not likely to need schools, hospital, fire and police and paved roads. AND the farmer is paying for it where he does live. If land were taxed that way, there would be Few FARMS AND FOOD WOULD be 100 to 1000 times higher. AND then there would NO one to pay any taxes. Farm land is decreasing every year due to urban creep and population growth. Pretty soon all your food will come from somewhere else and all the land will be taxed as homes. And the roads will be in even worse condition. Look at external_link, going up every year. BE DAMN CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR AS YOU MAY GET IT.
 
Yeah, look at Plano/Frisco area north of Dallas. Thousands of acres of black dirt covered up with mini-malls and urban sprawl.
 
Well I guess I side on tearing them down. Son and I initially bought acreage with barn, homestead, and another small house. We ultimately tore down everything but the barn which we restored for current use. A few years later son bought 4 acres with a vacant house, two mobile homes, 5 autos and trash. It sat right in mid section of the original farm; wasn't cheap but had to go. I think our existing neighbors liked what we did.
 
I have a renter I am going through with eviction right now. I say a renter actually the person in the house I did not rent it to she is the mother the grandchild of the woman I actually rented the house too. I went to collect the late rent one Sunday afternoon and she called the sheriff on me. Said I walked in on her. I did not do that, never touched the door knob. Window had been broken out of the storm door and after knocking for a while I pushed the unlatched door open and hollered through the door. She came from somewhere in the house hollering I had broken the law that I could not come in the house. I was not in it. Said she was going to call the sheriff, I said go ahead I will sit here and wait for him, which I did. That was in early October. Got a judgement last week and the judge told her to get out. She is still there. Next Monday a warrant will be issued and the sheriff will put her stuff in the front yard. If she does not move it i have to store it for 60 days. Out 3 months rent and $1250 dollars in legal fees right now. I think rental is a good investment you just have to do a better job than I did selecting who you rent to.
 
(quoted from post at 10:27:20 11/23/15) In Ontario farmland is not taxed,only the buildings are. So when a farmer acquires a second or third farm it is in his financial interest to tear down all buildings that he isn't going to use. There is a backlash from this. The rest of the people living in that municipality are saddled with the tax that these farmers are no longer paying.[b:a3fdd077af] Even though these land owners enjoy the benefits such as roads,road maintenance,fire and police protection and general services provided in the municipality, they are paying no tax.[/b:a3fdd077af] I see the point of the landowners but their gain of not paying tax is simply passed on to others.

l wouldn't be pointing the finger at the farmer or landowner. I'd be pointing the finger at the the gov't that can't stop spending more and more and more and the welfare trash that has never contributed a darn thing at all that creates a growing need for more tax dollars.
 
This is why I might have overpaid for a home in foreclosure that is next to our farm. I wouldn't be able to handle problems very well.
 

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