Geo-TH,In and others Shop ideas

For several years I have considered bulldozing my old shed down and building a new one.
The foundation is not good; termites have gotten in the walls; and you could take a shower in there with all the condensation falling off the metal roof.

I have seen you post several times about the shingle roof on your shop.
I assume it is on trusses 16 or 24 inches on center.
What I would like to know is what kind of walls do you have and how are they built to carry the weight of the shingle roof.
Especially interested to find out if you have steel walls and if so How do you like them.

I would like to build a 24 or 28 foot square shed with a shingle roof but have not decided how I will build the walls.
Any wood in contact with the ground has to be UC4C or UC4B treated to .60. Normal lumber yard pressure treated wood will not do.

What I really need is a stick built garage but the concrete slab has priced me out of building it so I keep putting it off and just using my old shed
I have thought about (even priced it all out in the past) going with a post frame and steel walls over house wrap or tar paper; with post 8 feet apart and a double 2x12 header at the top of the post to hold up the roof but UC4C treated to .60cca post are very hard to find and really cost a lot per pole and I really am on the fence about using steel even for the walls.
I am now thinking about putting a 12" x 12" x 36" tall concrete footer in the ground and setting either a double 2 by header across the footings and stick building from here up; or just putting 6x6 post on the footings and building it like a post frame building.

For your post requirements, you might look into several companies that offer a two -piece post. One has 60 grade treated spliced to untreated above ground. The other is a concrete burial post to have any post you want attached above. I have seen both advertised in the OnlineFarmer.com magazine before, but neither is in the most recent that I still have.

This is my 40 x 80 post frame building. 6 x 6 posts are 8' on center. 2 x 4 girts on 24" center. Double 2 x 12 header. Trusses on 24" centers. Whole thing sheeted with 7/16" osb. Then shingled and vinyl sided.

John in La,
I had a company from Michigan build my 30x40x10 barn so it could handle a snow load. The 4/12 trusses are on 24" with 1/2 OSB and 35 year shingles, same color siding and shingles to match house, 1 ft eves with vents, ridge vent, power vent and some clear panels windows. When I build another barn, I will put clear windows all the way down each side.

Growing up on a dairy I learned in the winter, that metal roofs and cows will turn the metal roof into an ice cave at night. When the sun comes out all the frost on the inside the roof will turn to rain and you don't want to get rained on, smells like cow pee. A few days in the spring and fall, conditions are such that the dew point and air temperature. Then condensation will occur on the inside of the metal roof.

I wanted eves so rain wouldn't run down the siding, turning the barn green with mold and I have no gutters. Instead I have flowers next to barn so the water won't splash on siding.

My floor is 6" concrete, with a 10' slab in front.

I put the barn on the highest part of property, then spent many days sloping the dirt so the water runs away from barn and house. We had a 10 inch rain in 24 hours and no drain pipes could handle it, especially on clay.

I love my barn. I have no condensation issues. I have proper ventilation. I had it termite treated too. No insulation. In the winter when the sun is shinning the metal siding acts like a solar collector. It's 10-15 degrees warmer inside than out. The thick floor stays warm enough to melt snow off truck and tractors. I will never leave a tractor, mower, car or truck outside, so this barn works great for me for my country home.

My 30X40 post frame building has a shingle roof and T1-11 plywood siding. Trusses are 24 inches O.C., sheathed with 5/8" OSB. Posts are 6x6 ground contact treated and the skirt boards are ground contact treated 2x6 tongue and groove.

I suppose you have problems with posts sinking in Louisiana, but I'd think a post frame building would be OK as long as you pour a large enough concrete plug at the bottom of the post holes to support the weight of the building.

Small barn 24x40x8. Large 30x48x12. Small barn has trusses 4' on center and large barn has them 2' on center. Small barn was built in 1986 and the kit cost $3,018.00. Large barn was built in 2002 and the kit was $6,400.00. Small barn had a second layer of shingles added in 2002 to match the large. Both have handled the SE MI snows with no problem. Both had concrete and utilities added after construction. The kits came from Chelsea Lumber.

You can make laminated posts from 2x. Only the bottom needs to be the good treated stuff.

Where I grew up on Mississippi river silt land we had problems with sinking.
Every modern home has 30 foot long pilings driven down to hard ground under it.

I do not have that problem here.
Digging a 1 foot hole by hand is a work out in our hard clay.
What we do have is a lot of rain (over 60") and a very high water table.
What most people do not realize is there are different grades of pressure treated wood.
UC4A treated to .40 is what most lumber yards and home stores carry.
It is good but getting it to last for a long time does not happen.
They make stronger treated wood for our zone 5 severe deterioration zone but it is a hard sell for the extra money when most think pressure treated is pressure treated so stores do not stock it. This causes you to buy more than you need to get bundles special ordered in.
And since I am not into a 20 year shed I want to do it right.

Tell me a little more about your building.
Post spacing and header size for the roof.
How are the walls built to hold the T-1-11

I would put up a steel building if you have termite and water problems.

Thanks George
You say no condensation problems.

So my one question is....
Your metal walls do not condensate or do you have something in between the metal walls and framing to where you can not see the metal walls from the inside?

Hi John. Yes, it's difficult to get properly treated lumber. Most folks don't realize that NONE of the lumber carried at big-box stores is treated for ground contact. The other day I was building a retaining wall and was able to get ground-contact rated T&G 2x6 at the local lumberyard, but in plain 2x6 they only carry above-ground lumber.

When I lived in coastal North Carolina, we would get lumber for docks and seawalls directly from the plant. That stuff coming straight out of the treatment vessel was HEAVY, probably three times the weight of dry lumber.

My building has 8 foot post spacing on the sidewalls, ten foot on the closed end. The headers (girders) consist of three 2x10s, one on the outside of the posts and two sandwiched inside the post. Here in Michigan we have to plan for snow load, so headers could be lighter down your way. The purlins are 2x4s spaced every two feet, just like you would use if the walls were steel instead of T1-11. I used 2x6 purlins in the closed end, because I thought the 2x4s would be too flimsy for the ten foot span. I attached the siding with stainless steel ring-shank nails, but if I were to do it again I'd use a framing nailer and galvanized nails.

I highly recommend the use of hurricane ties to attach the roof trusses to the headers.

Yes David that is the correct answer but it creates one new problem.
Paying for it!!!!

Look for a kit that someone else did not want, have heard of people picking them up for scrap price.

I've never seen condensation on the walls. If there is, it has only one place to go, down the wall. There is no evidence it has. Absolutely no condensation on inside of roof, even when I pull a wet truck inside or snow melts off truck of tractors. Unlike my block garage I do have condensation on tools and floor during some days in spring and fall. The pole barn is well ventilated and the sun keeps things a little warmer and dryer. I've very happy with my design. My block garage doesn't have enough ventilated.

During my college days I lived in a 50's model 10x50 trailer. It had a metal roof. It was like living inside a metal can. The roof had condensation issues and the ceiling would get wet, especially in the winter.

Some people are a big fan if metal roofs, I'm not. The county south of mine has a metal roof on a government building. Been there for 30 years. Metal is good. The plywood under the metal is rotted. I know some will say, it wasn't installed properly. Tell that to the county who has to come up with the money to replace it.

I'm a fan of shingles. I won't live long enough to replace 35 year shingles. But the law of averages in Indiana, my insurance company will pay for their replacement.

John, I got a permit and had a building inspector approve my barn. Where I live, it was required my posts be 4 ft in the ground. A house foundation only has to be 2 ft below grade. You need my 12 inch PTO post hole digger. It can go 4 ft, but you may have to remove some of the loose stuff at the bottom. If I were you I would also add some cross bracing for hurricanes.

John in La,
It frosted this morning, 27 degrees. Frost all over the roof and ground. Absolutely no signs of moisture on the inside of my metal barn.

However, what works in Indiana my not work in LA. I go to Florida in Jan and Feb to do a little crappie fishing. Both my sisters live on a lake in central Florida. Both have boat docks with a metal roofs. Before we go fishing we have to dry off the seats and wipe off the windshield. Everything under that roof is dripping including the underside of the roof.

If you have humidity issues like central Florida, I don't know what to tell you will work. My BIL has a small shop. He has to run an AC to keep his tools from rusting, not to mention the mold.

If I were you, look at what others in your neighbor hood have. I would highly recommend a concrete floor to keep the humidity down. Ventilation works for me, may not work for you. Years ago I had a garden shed, all metal, dirt floor, 10x10. It had condensation on the walls and ceiling. Everything inside rusted.