Bosh VE pumps

Animal

Well-known Member
I have a New Holland T5060 that the fuel injection pump went out on at 1500 hrs. I am finding out that this is a common problem with all brands of tractors that are using this pump. The dealer replaced this pump on my tractor as I was in the hay hot and heavy at the time. All they could tell me about what took my pump out was air in the system. They could not tell me why or where the air got in the system, or here is the biggie, If it will do it again. I hate using this tractor as I feel like I am sitting on a powder keg. I like the tractor very much, but this has me bummmed! Have any of you had any experience with this, or know some one who has?
 
Did you get to keep the old pump? If so, take it to an injector pump repair shop, get it rebuilt and have it ready to go if you need it. The repair shop should be able to tell what is really going on and why. Someone on here who is familiar with that particular pump should be able to tell you why it is sucking air.
 
Make sure the dealer checked the fuel supply lines. Air ingress to the pump will fail them. I'd also replace the fuel lift pump. We've had the same issues with them.
 
To be totally honest with you, the dealer is full of it. I say that all it takes is a very small amount of air in the system and the engine WILL NOT RUN. I've ran into this issue numerous times over the years.

In fact we're right in the middle of a power outage, and I just got done chasing an air leak on my diesel generator. I found a couple of possible leaks, but nothing that I could really say was the biggest problem. So I just redid everything that looked suspect, and made sure I took care of whatever was wrong.

Before the engine wouldn't smooth out, but rather would set there and hunt/surge slightly. It was just enough to screw up the voltage it was producing by a little but, but any is too much. Now it's running smooth as butter again.

Again I've run into the problem many, many times, and air in the system is not your problem, as air will cause you to not be able to run the engine at all, for it to hunt at all speeds, for it not to be able to handle a load. I've seen every one of those happen art one time or another.

Now what may be happening is the internal supply pump got worn or, if it has an external supply pump, it's not putting out. The injection pumps needs a constant supply of fuel to build pressure inside the pump housing. If the supply is too low 'vapor' will be created. It's not really air, per se, but that may be what the dealer is talking about. If that happens past a certain degree the pump would still should not work properly, and the engine would not run properly either.

In any case check out the link to read any and everything you might want to know about a VE pump

Personally I believe the biggest problem is the simple fact the diesel fuel now is pure crap. The 'industry' can say all they want about it being as good as it ever was, but when your out in the field seeing the problem across equipment lines and brands, and hearing about the problems from multiple sources (including the fuel shops that love it, as they profit from it)it becomes clear in short order. The only thing I know to tell you to do is if your not running any kind of additive, is to start. I know customers and other folks that run additive religiously, and others that you can't convince to do it regardless of what you do. Believe me, the ones that run the additive (myself included in that group) see far fewer fuel related problems than those that don't. In fact you'll most likely also see a decrease in fuel consumption when using the additive, which pretty much cancels out the cost for the additive. I know when I first started running it in my service truck several years after we got it, I saw a gain of about 1MPG. Unfortunately I lost everything gained when the ULSD came out, but as least I didn't lose more.

Ultimately, as another post suggested, take the old pump and have it rebuilt and sitting on the shelf for a 'hot standby'. Do this, start running some additive, or possibly a different additive, and your worries should be over for a long while. Good luck.
VE pumps
 
An airleak would not be my first thing to suspect.... but that said... Bosch rotary pumps were well known for failure simply from weak lift pumps, never mind an actual air leak.. I would check the supply lines and lift pump/transfer pressure just to be sure of it. Beyond that I probably wouldn't worry too much about it. Keep the filters changed and keep the water out of the system.

Rod
 
Bosch VE rotary pumps are fine when built in the BASIC form, and there are some that don't even use a feed pump, such as some VW and IH applications. From what I've seen when repairing the newer pumps it's the added emissions parts that fail first, sometimes wrecking the rest of the pump internally. The models with the cold advance that have the two small steel lines to the cold advance piston fail the most it seems. There's a small C clip inside that will break sometimes then trashes the main advance piston by cracking it, ruins the camplate lobes and rollers, transfer pump liner, and main housing. One time had a pump so bad the repair cost a bit more than a new pump but no one had a new one anywhere. Yet the cold advance system on the Dodge Cummins seldom caused any trouble. And yes, air in fuel will cause the clip to break, either running out of fuel by habit or trying to run choked filters too long. When the advance piston hammers back and forth when fuel cushion is lost, I've seen clips break. Even when I got a pump in with a good clip it still gets replaced. The VE on the Case 590 usually never comes off unless it's for leak issues, most have 4000 plus hours, and only option added may be the fuel cutback aneroid..
 
Which ve is it? The 44 will run just about forever with a good lift pump and and lube in the fuel.

They will run a short time pulling the fuel on its own as long as its not too much of a lift. But they prefer a few pounds of pressure. Over 15 you run the risk of pushing the front seal out of the pump.

They are lubed by the fuel so just about any oil in the fuel will help with that. Most fuel additives do little to help with lubrication. MMO is one of the worst.
 
VP44 is electronic controlled, VE is mechanical governed pump which replaced the hydraulic governed VA pump. When I was at the Bosch VA class years ago everyone thought the fellow that designed the VA probably ended up in a rubber room somewhere. I'm sure when the class ended we knew how to repair them, but with all the passageways trying to remember what each did was next to impossible. There are two rotary valves, the throttle and spill that turn, plus the spill also moves in and out depending on load. They can be resealed if they work but leak, IF junior hasn't torn it apart first, usually breaking parts no longer available. The first VE pump started on the VW Rabbit, then later on the first gen Dodge/Cummins. The basic VE works great, the late ones on Iveco I've seen more issues with. When first starting up a repaired Iveco pump on the test stand it will send chills down your spine. Even with the supply pump on for several minutes the advance will rattle loud until the air gets out with the stand turning 100 RPM.
 
Not to be argumentative, but like I said, I see the problems happening across brands, as well as equipment types. In other words, the problems can just as easily happen to a JD farm tractor, or a CAT dozer, or a Bandit chipper (CAT/Perkins engine), or a Mack OTR truck.

Granted fuel issues aren't always the problem, but the one common denominator I tend to see when someone calls me with a pump related issue is they do not run any kind of additive. I can't remember replacing but one pump in the last 15 years that I know for a fact the guy runs an additive. At the same time I also know that just a few years ago this guy had issues with the same machine because of major amounts of water in his fuel. In that case I don't believe the premature pump wear was necessarily a 'fuel' problem, as much as it was a 'fuel contamination' problem.

In any case when not running additive becomes a common denominator in the repairs, and when the guys at the fuel shop, who see far more pumps than I do say the same thing, I tend to believe there is a problem.
 

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