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Machien work, am I out of line?

K

kopeck

Member
I've been working on my Farmall A and I just got the crank and rods back from the machine shop and I've not yet recovered from the sticker shock.

To turn the rod & main bearing and resize the rods it was $1100.00 bucks. Is it just me or does that seem quite high?

Honestly I'm feeling burned over the whole process. They wouldn't give me a quote when I dropped the parts off (they need to evaluate the parts before they can do that) but said they would call me with one. I waited weeks and heard nothing. I tried getting in touch with them for over a week then finally went in to get my parts back. Of course when I showed up they said they were working on them as we spoke so I couldn't have them. Didn't think about asking about the quote.

2 more week I get the call everything was ready and today I picked it all up.

I'm not even sure the rods needed resizing, I measured them but wanted them to double check. I guess that's a free pass to do as much billable work as possible.

K
 
To put it mildly, you got robbed in my opinion. The machine shop I use would have been about $400.00 or less unless there were some unusual circumstances. If all they did was a normal crankshaft grind and polish and a normal rod resizing, I would go back and have a long talk with them and also demand an itemized invoice. When you see what they all did, you can decide what to do.
 
Oh Lordy. I'd be hot as a hornet in a baler (can you
tell what I ran over yesterday?). I had a head
redone for my M that had two cracks to fix and
needed valves and seats. It was right at $400.

I'm sure you got that "feeling" in your gut about half
way through the debacle that things weren't right.
Lesson learned I suppose. An expensive one.

I've found that if I need machine work done the
guys on here can give me a good ballpark figure. I
go in with that in mind and just say, "So this should
cost about XXXX dollars, right?" I may shoot myself
in the foot by giving them an opportunity to charge
me more, but more often than not the guys here are
right on the money.
 
I haven't had that kind of work done for awhile but I would think a small four cylinder would be in the $450-$550 range but that might be grossly outdated.
 
I would have walked when they wouldn't give you a quote. They should have given you a best case/worst case scenario.
 
I just picked up the 960 ford parts ---turned crank (rods and mains)--resized rods---replaced pin bushings and reamed to fit---full gasket set--new rod and main bearings -new ring set---less than $500.00
 
(quoted from post at 14:44:45 07/27/15) I've been working on my Farmall A and I just got the crank and rods back from the machine shop and I've not yet recovered from the sticker shock.

To turn the rod & main bearing and resize the rods it was $1100.00 bucks. Is it just me or does that seem quite high?

Honestly I'm feeling burned over the whole process. They wouldn't give me a quote when I dropped the parts off (they need to evaluate the parts before they can do that) but said they would call me with one. I waited weeks and heard nothing. I tried getting in touch with them for over a week then finally went in to get my parts back. Of course when I showed up they said they were working on them as we spoke so I couldn't have them. Didn't think about asking about the quote.

2 more week I get the call everything was ready and today I picked it all up.

I'm not even sure the rods needed resizing, I measured them but wanted them to double check. I guess that's a free pass to do as much billable work as possible.

K
Click to expand...
think they got you by the gonads.

I had a 6 cyl crank grind done this spring.
Grinding a crank journal $20/journal.
Resizing rods $25/rod.
Straitening the crank if needed $50 to $ 100 depending on the difficulty.
No extra charge for inspecting and measuring the crank and rods.
Total bill i paid was $385.- + tax
 
I would be talking to a lawyer. In my shop if you drop something off.I will go through it. Find out what needs to be done,how much and call you. I
have had many things repaired in shops all across Texas. Everyone told me that a quote was required before any work could be done. Unless you told
them to just fix it.
 
Question is at what point did you give them authorization to perform the work? Written or verbal ? If you never told them to fix it, you have them by the gonads.......
I would professionally request they document what $1100 worth of work was performed, at what labor rate, and what all had been done, PRECISELY....including parts.
I would then take this list to another machine shop and request they offer what their cost to you would be.
A detailed itemized invoice should add up. EVEN if they had some of the work "farmed out" elsewhere.
 
rhtx55- It does not matter if he takes the list to another machine shop for another estimate at
this time. If the original machine shop had no problems gouging him on the work done...I'm sure
they would have no problems testifying that he told them to go ahead and do the work. It then
turns into a "He said, She said" type of argument.
 
I've got a C-221 IH 6-cylinder in the machine shop now...my quote was
$1100 to magnaflux block, turn crank, recondition rods, valve job, fit
new sleeves and install new cam bearings, fit new pistons to rods.

I think you got burned but at this point it's a he said, she said
argument and you do owe them for work performed...weather you wanted
it done or agreed to the price.
 
It must be one heck of an "A" to be worth that kind of parts repair bill. I would give them back the parts and junk the old tractor. A Farmall A in good running condition will hardly bring $1500 anytime. YOU HAVE BEEN GOUGED! Complain loudly to all who will listen. Take them to small claims court for over charging. Don't pay them!
 
I am guessing that your last statement is true, and that they did as much billable work as possible. Or you might just measure again to see if they indeed did what they
say they did. Hard to argue now though since you already paid. I would have called their bluff, and seen if they would adjust if I threatened to let them eat them, and
see if they could find a home to recover their labor. Years ago I used to do some repair work (non automotive), and had to adjust my rates more than once or I knew I
would be sitting on the item until I could sell it. In my area, you cannot charge excessive labor rates or you would be eating the item to survive. As a matter of
fact, a couple of times I let an item or two out the door for material costs just to recover and get the item out the door, and at least I recovered my parts cost.
Otherwise it was going to sit in my shop and I would be lucky to come out on top. Many times those type shops will hit you as hard as they think they can, but when it
comes down to it and you threaten to walk and leave the parts they will negotiate.
 
Sadly I paid, not sure what else I was suppose to do. They had my parts. They also replaced the pin bushing, I forgot to mention that.

I'm not a "excitable person" but I had everything I could do not to loose it right there but what good would that have done?

I'm really bummed, I had a figure in my head of around $300 to $400 mark just judging by work I have had done before.

This on top of my block being toast (many cracks) now I'm going to have WAY to much invested in this tractor. It's a family machine so that means I'll stick with it but my god I hate being used.

K
 
Don't know how long it would take them to do all that but around here you don't get anything done for less than a hundred dollars or more an hour.
 
This is a sad case where you could buy
replacement parts cheaper l see that all
the time small engines you can replace
engine cheaper than repair.
 
Waaay too high. Ford 201 D last winter was
$1100 to:
Bore block to accept sleeves, sleeve it, and bore
sleeves to the new pistons

Totally rebuild the head, all new parts and
surfacing

Recon the big end of the rod, install and hone
piston pin bushings to fit, new rod bolts

Tank the block, install new soft plugs and galley
plugs

Install cam bearings

Grind deck surface of block

Polish the crank

Clean block to a "ready to assemble" condition.
I still clean and check everything myself when
they are done. Never had a problem, just don't
trust anyone to do it like I would do it.

Ross
 

Yes, you were severely mistreated. But at least go back and try to talk to them. If they won't do anything post to us here who they are so that nobody here gets the same treatment. You can also report them on various on line business evaluation sites.
 
(quoted from post at 18:26:28 07/27/15)
Yes, you were severely mistreated. But at least go back and try to talk to them. If they won't do anything post to us here who they are so that nobody here gets the same treatment. You can also report them on various on line business evaluation sites.
Click to expand...

The other sad thing is I had issues with the same shop last year. Kohler K-301, needed to be bored, valve seats cut and the one rod journal turned. I dropped it off in June and they didn't get the work done until September. This was after many calls and being promised that it would be done at the end of the week, week after week. While it took forever and I felt I was being jerked around the price was pretty much in line with what I expected.

I guess I was a fool for giving them a second chance but where I live in Maine my options are limited. I have found another shop but it's to late now.

I would say live and learn but this stings. I think I'll try to give them a call tomorrow but I don't thing they will listen.

They claimed 11.2 hours of labor on the bill, doesn't that seem high as well?

K
 

Do not call if you want results. Go in person. Call Frank Bumford and spread the word! Who and where is the shop?
 
I agree with other posts that the cost is way out of line.

Let me ask this, did they put new rod bolts in when they re-sized them? We are in the middle of rebuilding Dad's Super A and
discovered that the correct rod bolts were way expensive: $50 per bolt and $10 dollars per nut so $120 per rod X 4 is $480!!!
Could be some overpriced parts in there.
I figured a workaround with some ARP bolts.

Anyway, you are entitled to an itemized bill that shows exactly what was spent on what.
 
It shouldn't take much over an hour to grind & polish that crank. 2 to 3 hours on the rods, so 4 hours total should do it.
 
Why would you need new rod bolts its not a racing engine. I have installed many kits and never used new rod bolts and the engines are still running just fine. Just get the crank turned install new over sixed bearings and go. Kits come with new wrist pins put them on the rods and go.
 
The slip doesn't list bolts and he didn't mention them.

From what I read I got:

Cleaning
Magnaflux
Journals (rods and mains) turned .010
Rod resized and new bushing installed and sized.

When I dropped everything off I asked to have the rods checked, I didn't even mention the bushings.

I remember him writing everything down but I don't recall signing anything (but it was a while back).

K
 
You got ripped for sure,you can buy a good running A around here for that kind of $$$,always insist on a ballpark figure from shops doing mechanical work and to call if they run into something that will be a lot more than the quote.
 
Have rods checked means only that, do nothing to them except check them. If found they needed something he should have gotten ahold of you before doing anything more on them.
 
Unfortunately that sounds all to familiar ! I have been burned by many machine shops too. VERY hard to find a good one. I have found a good one in my area. But it's been a long time since I needed their help. I learned with time and being taken to DOUBLE check everything and try and be as specific as possible as to tell them what you want done. Even with the bad ones though I usually got a close guesstimate on costs ?
My good one did goof up one time and by gosh they actually made it right and it didn't cost me anymore ! That was a first for me.
Not much you can do now. Only thing would of been to of told them it was WAY too much and left it there and went and found used parts or reconditioned ones.
 
On close examination I noticed two things: There were 2 different kinds of nuts being used and the bolts had surface rust pits on them. The rust pits are a great place for a crack to start and I'm not going to gamble on 65 year old rusty bolts.

Talked to a guy a month ago who had a rod bolt break in an M. Wiped out the block.
 
I had some automotive rebuilder price sheets around and I don't remeber anything so high cost as you paid.Since you never did receive a quote I would communicate with them for a reduction. I'm sure you can go on line and find prices for machine work and back up the argument that you were way overcharged.
 
(quoted from post at 09:08:34 07/28/15) On close examination I noticed two things: There were 2 different kinds of nuts being used and the bolts had surface rust pits on them. The rust pits are a great place for a crack to start and I'm not going to gamble on 65 year old rusty bolts.

Talked to a guy a month ago who had a rod bolt break in an M. Wiped out the block.
Click to expand...

Just for the record I checked the bolts before I went to work and they're original.

I guess this is a live and learn situation. The shop manager knew I wasn't pleased with the price and didn't seem to concerned at the time. I don't see how that's going to change. I could have left the parts there but then I would have to purchase another set and run the risk of needing machine work on those as well.

The icing on the cake, and this has nothing to do with the machine shop is I need a new block as well. The shop I brought it to, the one I should have went to in the first place, found 4 cracks by eye then stopped counting. They had the decency to say they could fix it but it was going to be expensive and I was probably better off looking for a sound block.

This is going to be an expensive A.

K
 
I just googled some shop prices. Anything you could do to a crank , grinding ,cross drill , chamfer, all process except renitriding, etc . adds up to 630 dollars rods are .9.50 each to be reconditioned.$ 9.50 x 4.
 
(quoted from post at 09:49:13 07/28/15) I just googled some shop prices. Anything you could do to a crank , grinding ,cross drill , chamfer, all process except renitriding, etc . adds up to 630 dollars rods are .9.50 each to be reconditioned.$ 9.50 x 4.
Click to expand...

I just sent an email the second shop asking for a quote if they had the time (I hate to drag them into it).

We will see.

I talked to a friend who said "you pay for good work" which is true but this seem over the top to me.

K
 
It seems like when it rains it pours! This A we're working on had enough cracks in the wrong places that we opted for a
replacement.

Is the manager and the owner the same person? A talk with the actual owner could help.

I had some minor trouble with a shop once where some big block heads were supposed to get valve seats put in and all they did was
a valve job. I talked the owner and they did the work for just the cost of the seats.
 
I thin you got hosed. I rebuilt a Ford 4 cylinder 2 years ago. Valves ground, crank turned, rods checked. Wrist pin bushings sized and pistons install on rods. Sleeves pressed in. Total cost for machine work and the engine rebuild kit and a few extra parts like electronic ignition upgrade, 12 volt conversion and carb rebuild ran right at 1200 dollars.

Rick
 
Just got off the phone.

I'm getting my itemized bill, from machine shop "A" (aka the hoser). I'll let you know what I find.

I also called machine shop "B". The fellow said he really didn't want to get in the middle but said a safe estimate from him would be $600.00 for the work I had done.

So we're talking a $500.00 dollar difference.

Makes me sick.

K
 
Go get you a "Sandwhich board" sign and paint on it that you were gouged by such-and-such shop. Go on a picket line and walk in front of their business all day.

Wont do any good, but might make you feel better.

Be interersting to see how many horns honk or how many thumbs up you get.

Gene
 
Too late to cry about it now. Why did you pay the bill and leave the shop? You should have questioned them about all your problems right there on the spot, BEFORE you paid the bill. You should have pointed out that they never called you with estimate, etc. etc. IF the bill was absolutely too much, you should have told the shop owner he could keep the parts, but would not get that much money form you. You have to stand your ground up front like a man; not just pay up and then cry about it. I would say you have learned a valuable lesson. Next time leave a note in writing that you want a detailed estimate before they commence work, then if you don't like the estimate offer to pay them for their estimating effort and pick up the parts and leave. Tom
 
Well I guess I've been branded a whiner now.

Look I know I have no realistic recourse, I made a few mistakes here, doesn't mean it feels good to get burned.

I would have never OKed a quote that was that high, I highly doubt anyone here would have. My beef is I was never given that chance when I was told point blank they would call me with a quote. I never should have paid but then again I'm not sure where that would have left me.

I wont be going there again. It is what it is.

K
 
(quoted from post at 08:57:17 07/29/15) That is for a V8 crank too . Yours is only a four cylinder so half the grinding required.
Click to expand...

No kidding. A the rate I was paying I bet you could buy 2 Goodwrench 350 crate motors for what the machine work would cost to refurbish an original SBC!

I got the break down, looks to be about 6 hours on the rods and 6 on the crank. One thing I didn't mention was they bead blasted all the parts, not sure if that's normal operating procedure or not, probably didn't add a ton of time to the bill.

I voiced my disappointment over not getting a quote. I highly doubt that will change the bottom line for me but I really felt like I had to say something.

I'm a small fish so I doubt they will miss me as a customer. Live and learn.

K
 
(quoted from post at 12:03:46 07/29/15)
I'm a small fish so I doubt they will miss me as a customer. Live and learn.

K
Click to expand...

They will, they just wont know it. In my experience, most businesses will never admit to making a mistake like alienating a customer and it causing a loss of revenue. This business could go down the drain next week and they will just blame it on kids not learning to work on cars or quoting some article about the "throw away society" we live in. I have never heard a busted business owner (or any of their employees) saying "Ya know, we really should have done something different for Ol' man Johnson, he used to spend alot of money here till we dropped the ball that one time". They always blame other things (usually other people).

You might not have been considered a "great" customer getting something like this done maybe once a year but to me, thats the kind of customer you need to keep even if it ment sending everything out the door with no charge. Just think of how many people you will end up turning away from the business in the next decade... That really adds up. After you get done telling your horror story (which most people ignore), you will find a new place, maybe even 50 miles away. Then when someone askes where you get work done you say at So & So's place 50 miles away. Then they ask, dont you get it done across town? You will say "Nah, I found a great place next town over". Recommendations like those carry weight.

Just think of how this could have happened: You could have told them how you werent happy with not getting an estimate ahead of time and they went ahead anyway. The owner or manager could have discussed it with you, actually listening to you. Then when you are done basically venting to them, they could have said, " what price would you have went to?". You could have thrown out $600 or whatever. If they would have said they dropped the ball and pulled $500 out of the till, not only would you be a customer for life, any time machine shops get mentioned around you, you would be singing their praises. All for $500 of of labor... Think about it, whats it cost to put a 1/4 page add in the yellowpages? They would have gotten more bang for the buck with you as a spokesperson, I can tell you that.

Its a sad situation and I have seen it many times and nobody wins.
 
Rich I think you hit the nail on the head.

Even if he said "Hey, we should have called, sorry we will knock a couple of hundred off the bill" I would have felt like they did something. It's clear the money now is more important then work going forward. I've got a BN that's going to need the same treatment and a Chevy 350 that needs a valve job. All work that will find it's way elsewhere.

Other then finding the extra cash to button this motor up I've moved on. Can't dwell on stuff like this, I know who I was dealing with and I wont fall into that trap again.

K
 
(quoted from post at 10:03:46 07/29/15)
(quoted from post at 08:57:17 07/29/15) That is for a V8 crank too . Yours is only a four cylinder so half the grinding required.
Click to expand...

No kidding. A the rate I was paying I bet you could buy 2 Goodwrench 350 crate motors for what the machine work would cost to refurbish an original SBC!

I got the break down, looks to be about 6 hours on the rods and 6 on the crank. One thing I didn't mention was they bead blasted all the parts, not sure if that's normal operating procedure or not, probably didn't add a ton of time to the bill.

I voiced my disappointment over not getting a quote. I highly doubt that will change the bottom line for me but I really felt like I had to say something.

I'm a small fish so I doubt they will miss me as a customer. Live and learn.

K
Click to expand...

Kopek, don't beat yourself up to bad over it. Most people are not by nature confrontational. And most of us don't think of exactly what we want to say when caught by surprise like you were. most people who would think to tear into the shop owner immediately on the spot, probably would not have many friends.
 
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