O.T. Safety on some new guns, looking for opinions.

I am looking at handguns for a concealed carry permit. I have been noticing that many manufacturers are replacing the standard safety with a longer trigger pull. As I am old school, I prefer a safety. I thought I would poll the gun owners on here for their opinions on this.
thanks

The long trigger pull's are most likely double action guns. Meaning the gun is cocked as you pull the trigger. I also do not like this. The 1911 style guns that are made by all kinds of different manufactures now are single action and are cocked from the recoil of the action when shot. Thus you get a nice short trigger pull. I carry cocked and locked which makes some nervous but I prefer it over no safety at all. There are so many makes and models anymore. Be patient and you will find something that you like. Others with a lot more knowledge than I have may have some good suggestions for you. I don’t shoot well with a long trigger pull.

agreed on a 1911 type a safe,and reliable design. I have heard good things about the Rock Island in 9mm,and .45 reasonably proced,and functional.I havent used one but I have read several good reviews on different sites. I have a Speingfeild Armory that I bought back in 1994 and I am happy with it .It has workrd well,with the exception of failure to feed some reloads that I made the mistake of buying.

The only double action semi-auto pistol I have is a Ruger LCP .380. No external hammer. It has the long trigger pull that cocks the internal hammer as the trigger is being pulled. I haven't decided yet whether I like it. It's small enough that someone makes a holster that looks like a wallet in your back pants pocket.

My all time favorite is still my Springfield mil-spec 1911A .45. Simple and functional.

Almost all of the hammerless striker fired pistols don't have the type of safety you are comfortable with. And that's the key here. The "YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH" is the most important part. Get something that you like. There are many pistols out there that are browning clones. The High Power and 1911 is available from many different makers in different calibers. My son has a Rock Island 1911 that he's put a couple of thousand rounds through that's been trouble free. This is a fancy model with a lot of the competition features that he paid less than 600 for new. Now he just picked up a very nice Sig in 9MM that new right out of the box has got to be one of the nicest shooting brand new guns I've ever fired. It has a hammer and a safety. Same model that the Navy Seals use. So they are out there. Look online for a gun shop near you that has demo guns that you can fire to see what you like. Remember that you are talking about a carry gun here. You really need to be comfortable with that.

Rick

The best safety is,...leave your guns at home son...don't take your guns to town bill...leave your guns at home..

Opinions on triggers is like that on politics, everyone has one. Have pistols with all three different trigger systems. These are the single action, double action and double single. My main carry piece is still a 1911 style pistol. Mainly because it is chambered in .45ACP. Bigger is better. I also carry, on occasion, a Glock which a double action striker fired type. I have found that there is a vast difference in trigger pulls even on the same type of triggers. The double action striker fired type seems to have the biggest differences. I would find a find a well stocked gun shop or go to a gun show and try bunches of them. Look at Springfield, Glock, Smith and Wesson any of the big names. One more thing, pick a firearm that fits you. This is often over looked. If the grip is to big for you, pulling the trigger will be more difficult. This is particularly a problem for double stack high cap type pistols. What ever you pick will be better than having nothing when you really need it.

Just Another Old Geezer: one quick clarification--just saying the trigger pull is longer is a bit of an oversimplification--there are actually a number of different mechanisms being used, all of which have been around for quite a while--several decades at a minimum. While not exhaustive, here's a few:

Single Action: the trigger only serves to release the hammer, which must be cocked either manually or by racking the slide. Typically also has a manual thumb-activated safety and often another safety, such as the 1911's grip safety. It's a proven system, but requires significant training in order to use proficiently.

Double / Single action: for the first shot, the hammer can either be manually cocked or cocked by using the trigger, and subsequent shots are in single-action mode, with the hammer being cocked by the slide's recoil. Some guns of this type also allow cocked-and-locked carry just like the 1911. Again, it's a proven system, with the down side being the adjustment from a long first-round pull to a short pull on subsequent rounds takes some getting used do.

Double Action Only: all shots require a full pull of the trigger. Typically the hammer is cut off so it can't be manually cocked. There may or may not be a manual thumb safety--some states require one, and some people feel more comfortable with one. Modern guns will typically have at least one other form of passive safety, be it a trigger safety, a firing pin block, an inertial drop safety, or some other method. While this method gives a consistent trigger pull for each shot, care must be taken to fully return the trigger to its front rest position after each shot.

Striker Fired: As the Double Action Only above, but instead of a hammer, there's an internal striker used to hit the firing pin. Can also have a manual safety, and modern versions usually have at least one other passive safety. As above, care must be taken to return the trigger to rest after each shot.

As noted above, this is not an exhaustive list, and there are plenty of guns out there that blend features, it's just an overview of the common types. I've used all of them extensively, and all have their benefits and drawbacks. My personal opinion is that in a stressful situation, the less things I have to remember and the less controls I have to manipulate, the better off I am, which points me toward a double-action-only or striker-fired gun with no thumb safety, and the fact that many if not most police departments have came to the same conclusion tends to back up the theory. The lack of an external hammer also helps in concealment and is one less thing to snag or catch when it's drawn. However, this discussion will draw passionate responses from all across the handgun spectrum, and if you're willing to put in the time to build up your confidence and competence level with other types, they're certainly valid carry choices.

The tiger sr9 works great has a manual safety you can get the sr40 same gun but shot lots 40's instead of 9mm there is a concealed carry version to

You're talking about double-action only (DAO) automatics. The gold standard for safety in handguns is the double-action revolver. It is nearly impossible to discharge accidentally, very reliable, and dog-simple to operate: just point at the target and pull the trigger. DAO autoloaders attempt to marry the safety of DA revolvers with the advantages of automatics (e.g. capacity and concealability).

The problem with traditional single-action autos is the need to carry them with the hammer cocked and the safety on. So there's always a chance of the safety being inadvertently disengaged leading to an accidental discharge. And the safety is another thing you have to fiddle with in the event you actually have to use your pistol. Hence the popularity of DAO autos in recent years.

My carry pistol is an old-school Browning Hi-Power, BTW.

If you want a gun with old school safety look at the Colt .380, the Walther PPks in .380 or a Sig if your looking for new or you could look around for a good used gun. The only thing these guns and older guns are heavier than the new plastic guns.

I learned 40 plus years ago there is only one gun safety and it is between the ears of the person holding the gun. I have more then one fire arm that has no safety at all on them and others that have more then one. I treat them all the same and only point a gun at what I plan to shoot no questions asked

But not everyone can live in fantasy land.

I started with a Glock 17 9mm which is a striker fired gun with no external safety. Found it to be too big for CC and I prefer an external safety. Ended up with a Ruger SR9C, it is striker fired, has a thumb safety, trigger safety, loaded chamber indicator, comes with 10 and 17 round mags, field strips easy, won't break the bank and is small enough for CC. I don't carry often, but when I do I am happy with my choice. There are lots of options.

Stupid question time:

On your Ruger LCP .380 - is every shot done through single action?

Same question with the Glock - is every shot a single action shot?



In terms of a "safe" weapon to carry I agree the 1911A1 has to be one of the most idiot proof ever made. I've been looking long and hard at one in 38 Super.

The type and style of weapon is up to you, some ranges rent weapons so you can try before you buy.
I carry both the Ruger LCP and a Colt 1911, but rarely at the same time.
The 1911 is designed to be carried in Condition 1, "cocked and locked". That is the safest way to carry it loaded.
The LCP is a completely different design. The Striker Fired double action feels stiff and clumsy compared to a 1911. It is equally safe to carry, as neither can fire unless you make it do so. With this and similar "pocket guns", keep it in a pocket or belt holster that covers the trigger, and do not put other items in the same pocket. I had a holster made and carry it OWB most of the time. While the new LCPs have a slightly improved trigger pull, it is not a fun or impressive range gun. It was designed for a small size and short range, and does both well.

Osloelitist: Just a quick correction--the LCP is a hammer-fired double-action only gun, not a striker-fired one. Ruger does make a striker-fired version of the LCP's big brother, the 9mm-chambered LC9, which they call the LC9s, but to my knowledge they do not make a striker-fired version of the LCP.

Here's mine.

My brother in law has a Colt 38 Super that was his grand fathers. Its a nice gun but it is hard to find ammo in this area. The only way to get it is order it on line.Shops around don't stock it say they don't have a big enough demand for it.

Local shops are now carrying it and its available online. 10-15 years ago you couldn't find it anywhere unless you reloaded your own. 20 years ago I sold a nice Ruger Blackhawk in .45LC because ammo was so hard to find. Wish I had waited.

I like what Old says! I too have a DAO Sig 9mm and am quite used to it now. Yes it has a long trigger pull,
but I think you can order them with a different, shorter pull. You'll learn to trust it after some practice.

I really like my SR9C also. Only complaint was that the 10 round clip was too short for a good grip even with my small hand, so I added a piece to it. I also added a laser sight.

(quoted from post at 11:10:23 05/28/15) Osloelitist: Just a quick correction--the LCP is a hammer-fired double-action only gun, not a striker-fired one. Ruger does make a striker-fired version of the LCP's big brother, the 9mm-chambered LC9, which they call the LC9s, but to my knowledge they do not make a striker-fired version of the LCP.

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Yup, forgot, I was shown a Kahr P380 last night.

The visual of Condition 1 feaks some people out.

About five years ago I bought a new Ruger 357 revolver. It is a long pull dual action. I have found that as my hands have gotten more arthritis I can't just pull the trigger. I have to pull back the hammer each time. If I don't it is such a strain that my aim is way off. As I have gotten older I find that I prefer my dads Mossberg 20 guage if I can get away with a shotgun. I wish it wasn't so long, but that 357 is just too hard to pull. It's an awfully pretty gun, though. I'm not sure I even have two boxes of bullets through it.

Nice gun, huh? LOVE my PM9.

Before you buy any handgun, you should find a gun shop where you can try many different ones. That's what I did. I chose the Smith&Wesson M&P Shield 9mm. It has an external safety if you want to use it. It has been a perfect carry pistol. I HIGHLY recommend that you try one. As with my full sized M&P 9mm, it will eat ANY kind of ammo. I have fired 1000's of rounds through it now and some of it has been pretty cheap and dirty stuff and it has never failed yet! To me that is the most important thing about a gun. When you pull the trigger it better go BANG!!!! I agree that comfort is important, but reliability is number one. Remember that the purpose of a carry gun is conceal ability, comfort when you are carrying it and reliability. Hope this helps. Dan

Nothing like a "Star" in 380...Much like a miniature 1911..

Hard to find but worth the wait..

Ron..

Star was not a bad gun but it will be hard to find since they went out of business about the same time as the importer did ( Interarms 1990's)and didn't see many 380. I had one of the 9 mm in nickle finish and finish did not hold up good for a carry gun you had to watch it all the time as it wanted to rust.

Good luck, be careful, be safe.

When it comes to sidearms, I'm a revolver fan, not so much pistol. My mother is 80 years old, and with age comes the loss of strength. I picked up a couple of .380 semi-auto's for her, but the slide to chamber the first round was a bit much for her, so I got rid of them. Then I tried some .38 special revolvers, a couple of 2 inchers, one Charter Arms and the other a Smith Model 12, and she can still do it, but a little tough for her on the trigger or hammer, so two of my sisters have them. What Mom has now are a couple of J-Frames, one a Rugar LCR .38 Special and a Smith Model 642 .38 Special, both have Crimson Trace lasers. The triggers on J-Frames pull like running your finger through melted butter. Mom is 80 years old, the longest room she has to worry about is about 25', so a 2" will work fine if she paints a dot where she needs it.

Mark

If your planning to CC, then you'll need a smaller sized gun to be comfortable. Both my wife and I carry a Colt Government Model .380. It's patterned after the 1911, and has a manual safety, but lacks the grip safety. The Government Model has a 7 round mag. Colt made a smaller version called the Mustang that has a little shorter barrel and grip, and it holds only 5 rounds. I also saw a Government model at a show the other week that was patterned after the 7 shot but had an alloy frame that made it much lighter than the standard model with a steel frame. They also had the Mustang +2 that combined the shorter barrel with a 7 shot mag. In any configuration, they all fire SA only.

The Colts discussed above are older models, but Colt has also begun to remake the Mustangs lately. Old or new, all of the different variations are great guns to carry as they all have a small profile, relatively light weight, and are pretty easy to conceal without much trouble.

SIG is making their version now, in .380 as the P238, and as a 9mm as the P938. Both have safties, and share the SA trigger, with the Colt. Too, both hold 6 rounds in the mag just like the new Colts are doing.

As far as the safety/trigger thing goes, I think it was Old that said the best safety is between your ears. I was very old school, and more than a bit concerned with the new striker fired pistols until I got a chance to both shoot and tear into them a little. As a mechanic, I look at all guns as nothing more than a machine...and I like simple machines. The striker fired guns are just as safe, if not more safe in some instances, than any of the old guns were/are. If your still concerned, there are some of them, the M&P's by S&W come to mind, that are striker fired and can also be had with a separate, manual safety.

As for the smaller guns, like the Ruger LC series, DO NOT get one of the original LC9's. The first gun bought for my wife was an LC 9 that she practically begged for. It is the only gun I've ever gotten rid of. The trigger pull on that gun SUCKS. Another thing is it takes both hands to drop the slide. You've got to hit the release with one hand along with pulling the slide to the rear with the other, for the slide to release. For all the dislike I had for the gun it did grow on me a little and I don't think I'd have any problems with the new, striker fired version. I haven't fired one yet, but I've been told the trigger pull on them is as good as any other.

That all said, the biggest problem with the smaller guns in anything over a .380 is you've got to have plenty of hand and wrist strength to handle the recoil of 9mm and above. For someone without the strength the .380 with some Hornady Critical Defense is going to offer up plenty of stopping power for all but the most stubborn target. That's one of the reasons I had to get my wife her own Colt Government after she shot mine. She has carpal tunnel, and had problems with 9mm and above. With a steel frame .380 she has absolutely no problem with, and absolutely loves her Colt as the recoil is tamed so much just by the weight of the gun.

In any case if the target doesn't stop after 7 or 8 rounds of .380, you need to be carrying a full sized gun, of a larger caliber, with a larger capacity mag.

In the end we could talk guns all day, but what I've found is the only way to really know what you like, not just what you want, is to hit a range and shoot a variety of them. My wife and I have everything from 2 newer .357 revolvers, to her Glock 19, to my Steyr M40, to an old reliable stainless Ruger P95, and and even an older S&W 3914. They all have a purpose, and do what they do well, for us. Your own situation, and preferences will determine the right gun for you more than anything else. Good luck and happy shooting.

Yep gun safety is only between the ears and not matter what if your not smart enough to know how to handle a gun you should not have one. Got my first real gun when I was 8 or 9 and still have it. Gun of choice if i could only grab one gun is my 44mag and I can hit what I want and not even think or site it in just point it

(quoted from post at 20:34:27 05/28/15) If your planning to CC, then you'll need a smaller sized gun to be comfortable..

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Your mileage may vary. I am quite comfortable carrying my 1911. My reason to buy a .380 was entirely motivated by the small size and concealability of the weapon when dressed lightly for summer, and crawling around vehicles and junk piles.. If size is not really an issue but you do t want to go big, , then the 9mm is more practicle as ammo is cheaper and easier to find.

(quoted from post at 10:56:57 05/28/15) The best safety is,...leave your guns at home son...don't take your guns to town bill...leave your guns at home..

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That's the best safety for those who would do you harm. Criminals adore unarmed victims.

I never understood the thinking of those who would disarm others considering the world we live in.

(quoted from post at 10:00:32 05/28/15) But not everyone can live in fantasy land.

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WHAAAAT? ........ I don't get it :roll: What's your point? 8)

(quoted from post at 12:26:18 05/29/15)

(quoted from post at 10:00:32 05/28/15) But not everyone can live in fantasy land.

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WHAAAAT? ........ I don't get it :roll: What's your point? 8)

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He was responding to Bison and pointing out that bad things happen to good people and taking responsibility for your own well being is the reality for most of us.

(quoted from post at 10:22:27 05/29/15)

(quoted from post at 12:26:18 05/29/15)

(quoted from post at 10:00:32 05/28/15) But not everyone can live in fantasy land.

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WHAAAAT? ........ I don't get it :roll: What's your point? 8)

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He was responding to Bison and pointing out that bad things happen to good people and taking responsibility for your own well being is the reality for most of us.

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Geez ....... wish he had said [b:9657307580]THAT[/b:9657307580]! Anyway ....... thanks for clearing that up for me. :lol: