10w30 full synthetic

Geo-TH,In

Well-known Member
My last oil change I decided to use 10w30 full synthetic oil in my 1650 hour kohler command on my terramite. I've put 80 hrs on the oil change. Oil looks like new, hasn't used a drop. In the past I would use 10w40 non synthetic oil and after 60 hrs it would turn dark. After 75 hours it would be down a little on stick. Between 60 and 75 hrs I would change it.

Kohler says I should change oil every 100 hrs. I'm going to push the full synthetic to 100 hrs and see what it looks like. So if oil still looks good should I change it or let it go a little longer?

BTW, I'm using the same brand of oil, which I'm not turning this into a brand name war. I will just say I've been using the same oil for last 1250 hrs that's how long I've owned it. This is the only time I've used synthetic and in the past I used non synthetic.

I know there are some who say you must run an air cooled engine wide open. I've been running at half to 2/3 full speed as stated in my owner's manual, all the time I've owned it. So it not running at full speeds damages an engine, why haven't I damaged mine? Some say 1650 hrs on a kohler command is on borrowed time. Some at a small engine shop tells me, they have seen kohlers with 6-7000 hrs if taken care of.

Only time will tell. At the rate I logging hrs, about 200/year, it will be interesting how many years this will last. The engine is a 2004. I've owned it 6 years now. Bought it with 400 hrs.
 
It is interesting the manual would say to run at half to 2/3 throttle. Most small engine power is rated at full governed speed. So you would never be using the engine to its potential, making it kind of pointless to have a big engine. Not knocking what it says, just interesting.
 
I have run full synthetic in my squad car since new in 06. The engine is so tight and quiet that I bought it when we went to the dodge charger. The oil stays golden until 4000 miles then begins to darken up. The ultra stuff I use is rated to 10,000 but change at 5,000.
Dad switched to full synthetic last year. It took a couple changes to clear up the sludge residue then his went clean. The trick I think is to use the better filter to go with the oil. They do have a tough guard filter for synthetics. But its well worth the extra for full synthetics.
 
(quoted from post at 16:55:05 05/27/15) If the oil is clean it means the grime is staying in the engine.

DITTO! I always get a kick out of it when I hear how clean the oil is after 100 hrs. or 4000 mi.If the oil is that clean-you'd better change brands. FIRE AWAY boys and girls.
 
I'd be happy to pull a valve cover any day for anyone who wants to see my car! Synthetics do require a different filter. I run a 0w20 in the winter, 5w30 in the summer. I was always a detergent 10w30 person for about everything on the road and straight weight 30 for tractors. Rotella for diesels. Needless to say, gas engines will get the better oils after my experiences.
 
I bought an 06 Chevy LT Impala with 3.9 V6 with less than 18,000 miles. First oil change dealer said to use 10w30 full synthetic oil. So we went with Castor oil 10w30 full stnthetic and in between the next two oil changes it used 6 quarts of oil ( no leaks). Third oil change went to Castor oil 10w30 convential oil and does not use a drop of oil between 3,000 mile oil changes. I run my trucks and tractors on Shell Rotella 15w40.
 
For what it's worth, my Kohler commands usually make it to 2200-2500 hours. This is wide open, mowing time. Yours will last. I change mine every 50 hrs with non synthetic.
 
Full synthetic is the best oil you can buy, if price is any measure of oil quality. It should extend small engine life especially if shorter change intervals are used. I use full synthetic in the car and the oil stays relatively clean on dipstick for about 2,000 miles longer than it did with conventional oil. Oil filters for cars come in three grades where I shop,- good, better and best. I buy the best filter I can for the synthetic oil used in the car. Think small engines possibly only have one grade of filter available, I use factory OEM filters in my small engines. The reason the oil in the car stays clean looking longer with synthetic is because the high quality oil filter is catching most the dirt and crud in it and not because dirt is left in the engine. If you look on the box many brands of filters will say rated for 5,000 miles or rated for 7500 miles or rated for 10,000 miles.
 
You don't change oil because it wears out but because it is diluted with fuel, obviously the more the rings are worn, the sooner the oil is diluted. Keep in mind you are burning oil and diluting the oil with fuel at the same time so the level may stay the same but your oil is constantly being diluted.
An engine will normally last longer with synthetic oil because of less friction, which has been proven over and over.
I use synthetic in every thing I own, 7 engines.
 
dave, just for you I will pull the valve cover and post a pic when I change the clean
synthetic oil at 100 hrs. We will see if you are right. It only takes 4 bolts and no
valve cover gasket needed, it uses an o ring. Personally I think regular oils break down
and turns the oil dark. Even my 2 cars and GMC truck at 3000 miles that use oil the GM
dealer uses turns dark and then uses oil.
 
No, but their peak torque and horsepower are not rated at max rpm. They are also rated at much more than 20 odd horse power, too. Seems silly to advertise a piece of equipment with a 25 horse, 3600 rpm engine, but tell the owner not to use it. If the equipment does not need the power, seems they could have used a lower power, more cost effective engine. But, then again, there is probably not a commercial quality engine befitting of the equipment using it under 20 horse anymore.
 
Or it(the dirt) never gets past the rings / valve guides and into the crankcase, so synthetic oil stays cleaner because of the superior ring seal.

I use Mobil 1 synthetic in both of my rider mowers with Briggs OHV engines. The synthetic can stand the extra heat of a hard working air cooled engine, plus the better ring seal keeps it cleaner much longer. Oil consumption is near 0 at 50-75 hours.

My Toyota Prius specifies 10,000 miles between oil changes of full synthetic 0W-20. At 10,000 miles, it has only darkened slightly from baby oil clear to a light syrup brown, just enough to make it a bit easier to see the oil line on the dip stick.
 
The only way to really tell what shape your oil is I is to have a sample checked by a lab. The way I understand it it's not the base oil that breaks down its the additives. Some of those additives are detergents the others are viscosity improvers that make the the oil perform better at operating temperature. Those are the ones that I would be most concerned with.
 
Well I'd be interested to see how the Toyota does as my wife's Toyota Corolla has 230,000 on it and all its had is 15W-40 Diesel grade oil and the oil gets black as tar.The mechanic
that replaced the timing belt at 200,000 as preventative maintenance said it was the cleanest engine he'd ever worked on.
 
The 15w40 diesel won't hurt a car engine. I have a buddy that farms and has another business on the side.He trades his cars at about 300,000 miles and all he runs is IH no1 15w40 deisel oil and when he gets rid of them the engine is still in good shape.
 
I would tend to believe that the darkening is likely caused by heat. Conventional oils begin to degrade around 250 degrees while synthetics are stable well past 450F. The synthetic, being much more stable at higher temperatures, is not being affected as much. As oil is the only coolant in an air cooled engine, this could prove to be quite a benefit. Does anyone know what the oil temperatures typically run in these engines?

Aaron
 
I switched years ago when I had to change dino oil 2-3 times per season on the same mowers. With WW 10-30 I do it once per season and put a little snake oil in my gas. My 5 mowers (Fastrak, Husqvarna, JD, DR, and Scotts....V twins are 1 Honda, 2 BS, and others are single Kohler Commands) are over 10 years old and I don't remember even changing the plug(s) on any of them. They are maintenance free, all of them. Just oil and filter once per year with SO in the gas.
 
I have a Kohler standby generator with a 27 hp engine and they recommend 5w30 synthetic oil be changed at 100 hours. It only holds 2 quarts of oil and I change it once a year. It's programed to start once a week for 20 minutes. It started good even when very cold. Hal
 
Yes. I have one of the Harbor Freight infrared touchless thermometers and measuring around the crankcase, mine don't run all that hot even with me running them "where I want" in rpm. I was surprised. I don't remember the number but could go and take another reading the next time I use a mower. It was less than 250F after several hours mowing pasture edges at about 3/4 throttle on one of the BS V twins. 185 area comes to mind. Obviously the combustion area was higher and ran up around 400 as I recall. So, I guess the answer is the oil used to cool the OHV part of the engine is where the oil gets exposed to the most heat as one would expect.

On the HF Thermometer, they are cheap and they are real handy for a lot of things around the farm. I had a JD 4230 overheating and it helped me isolate the source of the problem among other things. They are just real handy.
 

Geo. I don't recall seeing where anyone has said that air cooled engines need to be run wide open. I believe that most of us set them according to the job whether it is air or liquid cooled. EXCEPT when the engine is running a hydrostatic drive, or hydraulic pump and motors/cylinders. We all know that in that case they should be run at full factory set governed throttle. That is what the machine is designed for. Isn't your Terramite hydrostatic?
 
That's funny. February of last year, I bought the 11kw Generac Guardian series and they said use, and it apparently had, 30 wt in it. February and 30 wt. oil??????? Not in my machines! So, before I even started it I drained it and installed Mobil 1 0w-30 like I use in my Chebby truck. The running once per week eats up some propane, but thinking about it it's a good idea keeping things lubed up and the battery charged.

Having had to worry about power outages over the years and pulling out the portable standby and all the extension cords and running out of gas on a prolonged outage, this thing is just a great big "teddy bear". All these storms we have been having, many of them electrical, haven't bothered us a bit, and we comment on it every time one comes through. We call it our "little buddy". I check the timer and it doesn't know the difference between daylight savings and regular standard time, but on Wednesdays, at 12:55 (CST), it kicks in for 17 minutes right on the money. I bought the Generac because they have built over 1 million generators and the little V twin is of their own making just for such service. I like that. Butttt I still haven't figured out why they recommend a single viscosity oil in today's market considering they sell these things around the world in all kind of environments.
 
Within the last day or two the green guy from Canada blessed us with his usual negative comments to the effect that we were in the
wrong if we didn't run 3600 constantly. He went on to detail the non-proportional loss of air volume at reduced rpms.
 

Synthetic oil or blends of same do not REQUIRE different or better filters than mineral oil does.Of course the oil makers or bottlers recommend their filters.The best filters can and,for the good of the engine,should be used.The filter will catch just as much weather the oil is synthetic,blend or mineral.
What oil with a few thousand miles looks like on the dipstick doesn't mean much.What does it look like in the drain pan after being drained?BLACK!
Diesel oil really gets black in a few thousand miles because it is formulated with components to keep more carbon particles in suspension.Those particles are so small that double filtration won't get rid of them.And they won't harm the engine.
 
You're lucky. Neither of my Kohler commands will darken the oil enough for these tired old eyes to see it on the stick. I use the regular Kohler oil and filter. I tend to run the oil changes way overdue because of it. Don't see how you are going to come out paying 50 percent more for oil while getting 25 percent more service from it. Mabie my math is wrong?
 
aaron ford,
I totally agree with you. The head temp on the air cooled is very hot. The rest of the engine is well below 200. The engine has over head valves so some of the oil is coming in contact with the head. I always thought my old oil is breaking down, turning it black. Synthetic is designed to handle the higher temps. That's why the synthetic is staying clean, it not breaking down. It has to be doing a better lubricating.
George
 
I wait to buy my oil on sale for $3/qt, regular oil is $2. I buy a case of filters, 12, for $40. So if I change regular oil and filter every 60 hrs, 120 hrs two oil changes, 4 qts oil and two filters, $8 for oil and $6.72 for filters. Change synthetic 120 hrs 2 qts and one filter, $6 oil and $3.33 filter.

I'm ahead by using synthetic.

Even if it cost more, I staying with synthetic. Been using it in other engines as well, Jubilee, and generators and having good results.

I'm more concerned with extending engine life than I an saving a penny and rebuilding an engine.
 
That is what I was thinking until I read the post about the HEAT of an aircooled engine is what was breaking down and "browning" the conventional oil he was using.

But otherwise I agree - the only oil I've seen come out of engine looking clean was nondetergent that had sat for a while. All the dirt has settled out of the oil and was left in the engine. If anything on my cars real synthetic oil comes out blacker than conventional oil - I like to think its because its cleaning it out.
 
El Toro,
My kohler is a 2004, nothing about using synthetic. It's nice to know Kohler recommends synthetic, that's good enough for me. THANKS FOR THE INFO. BTW, I do use 5w30 synthetic in my generators that I may need to use in the winter. Change it once a year too.
Geo
 
Most likely someone was not filling the oilpan. Castrol 10W30 "full synthetic" is a conventional oil refined to higher specs but still a group 3 oil based on hydrocarbons (mineral oil) - really not that different than the typical Castrol GTX (group 2 and a high quality oil in its own right). They only get away with calling it synthetic because a judge said they could. Group 4 synthetics (like Mobile 1) are based on POA products.



https://lubeng.wordpress.com/2012/06/19/is-your-engine-oil-really-synthetic/


Group 3 synthetics are really good oils but they can't handle extreme temperatures or sludge as well as Group 4 synthetics. It is hard to understand how (in normal operating conditions) changing from one to another would affect oil loss - especially moving from a group 3 to a group 2 since they are so similar.
 
Our company ran a small test of Mobile 1 for a Mobile local dist. The company bought two new Chevy 2 1/2 ton ( gas powered)straight trucks. Used Mobile 1 in one and the other used Shell Rotela 15w40. At the end of two years they evaluated the trucks and all we knew that the company did not see enough advantage to the mobile to go to it in the rest of fleet. The 38 years I was with company they tried differant oils but always came back to Rotela. They used Rotela in every thing gas or deisel.
 
So your saying that Castor oil Syntec (Edge) is not a synthetic but a blend. Castor oil did make an oil that was said to be a blend of convential oil and synthetic.
 
I don't know.

You would have to look them up individually to know what is a group 4 synthetic, a group 3 synthetic, a group 4 & group 3 synthetic blend and a group 4 and group 2 synthetic blend or a group 3 and group 2 synthetic blend.


Castrol was sued by Mobil to quit using the word "Synthetic" while advertising their group 3 oils. Castrol won and the words "synthetic and synthetic blend" can mean a lot of things.


https://www.stle.org/assets/document/Worldwide_January_2010.pdf



It’s been 10 years since the National Advertising Division of the
U.S. Council of Better Business Bureau adjudicated on a dispute
between Castrol and Mobil on the use of the
word “synthetic” as a description of certain
lubricants.

The disagreement was over an advertising
claim that began when the U.S. Mobil objected
(despite allegedly having marketed
hydroisomerised API Group III base oils as
synthetic in Europe and elsewhere) that Castrol’s
hydroprocessed Syntec® was not synthetic.

The NAD did not agree, ruling that Castrol’s
evidence, although not demonstrating
its product’s superiority, constituted a reasonable
basis for the claim that the Castrol
product, as then formulated, was a synthetic
motor oil.
 
Kohler dealer will charge around $300.00 for an oil change and filter. My synthetic oil is Cam2 and was under $3.00 a quart from a grocery store and I bought 8 quarts. Kohler filter was around $10.00, now they're around $12.00 plus tax. Hal
 
You should look into a NAPA (gold) oil filter number 1348 ($6.69). It will do same job of filtering as the Kohler filter at less cost. This filter will also work on B&S engine to. If you have a NAPA card you will get a discount to.
 
d beatty,
I cut apart a kohler, briggs and a kawasaki filter to see how they are made compared to a steins filter that came on a used kawasaki mower I purchased, JD275. JD Seller, I think, recommended the steins filter, it has good filteration and a pressure relief built in. It works on 3 engines. Some of the others don't have that.

I don't care what others think of my filter choice, but the case of filters I got for $40, will work on my 2 Kohlers, 2 briggs, and 2 kawasakis.

I plan to remove valve cover and cut the steins filter apart after 100 hrs on the Kohler to see how things look. Will post back then with pics. Should have 1700 hours on engine by then.
geo.
 
(quoted from post at 11:29:10 05/28/15) You should look into a NAPA (gold) oil filter number 1348 ($6.69). It will do same job of filtering as the Kohler filter at less cost. This filter will also work on B&S engine to. If you have a NAPA card you will get a discount to.

Buy a OEM filter and a Napa special then cut them in half, let me know what you find there will be a difference.

Another dealer and i had this discussion not too long ago

The world does not realize that cheaper does not always translate into better!



I've also gotten to the point on oil filters where I firmly believe the OEM is better than anything else available. Kawasaki engines proved that to me with a cutaway display. There really is a difference.



They had a Napa Gold, Fram, Rotary, "Cheap Chinese", Stens, and Kawasaki in a row. Stens was the closest to the real thing. Believe it or not, Fram was worse than the cheap chinese filter.
 
Your going to have to fill me in on what a NAPA special oil filter is. All I know of that NAPA sells is the Gold or Sliver and silver is their cheap filter. The 1348 gold meets all OEM Specs. and that filter is made by Wix. I have used the NAPA 1348 for over 25 years in both Kohler and Briggs & Stratton engines. I change oil and filter every 75 s and run Shell Rotela 15w40. It was a Kohler dealer that told me about using NAPA filters and thats been years ago.
 
All this talk about which is better makes me chuckle. Oil is oil, keep it changed and full. My Grandpa bought a new Wards 16 garden tractor in '74. It has a splash lubed 16 Hp Briggs. It has used whatever was cheap for 41 years. The only constant has been keeping it full and changed. It boggels my mind to think how many hours may be on that thing. It probably averaged 4 hours of run time a week during mowing season for at least 35 years. That is not to mention run time plowing, tilling, snow blowing, and time on the generator during power outages. That engine probably has an easy 3000 hours on it. It is semi retired now that I own it, but I can run it today with just as much power as it always has had. It has just now started to smoke a little on accelleration and hard pulls. Every one has an opinion, this is just mine.
 
HelloTexasmark1,

I think the battery has an a.c. circuit dedicated for the battery charger. Check it out!

Guido.
 
I don't know about dedicated as a dedicated, fused circuit like in a breaker box, but yes it has a built in charger. Actually it keeps the battery charged to a higher voltage than the 12.75 I use as a norm. But I haven't seen any overflow of chemical solution so I guess the battery can take it.

Thanks,
Mark
 
(quoted from post at 18:55:05 05/27/15) If the oil is clean it means the grime is staying in the engine.

yeah... just what I was gonna say... either the previous oil cleaned the engine or the new oil is NOT cleaning the engine. Either way don't know that I would like the oil staying clean. That is not a character of a good oil, just a cheap oil.
 

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