How to get the most out of your Cyclo 800 corn planter...

Dave H (MI)

Well-known Member
Put it in end transport mode, hook onto it, drive it to the nearest scrap yard, cut your losses. If you can get them to cut it up while you are watching...life will be good.

Replanted the back 20 today. Everything seemed fine. Gauge showed 4-5 ounces (and I don't want to freaking hear about it, that is the best it has ever shown and it planted fine in the past). Monitor showed random rows not planting but only temporarily and, FYI, the alarm goes off because row 8 has a bad connection I cannot find. Many times I looked at the monitor and ONLY 8 was showing as bad. Very confusing because the seed is going down, just not fast enough. Late in the day the pressure started slipping and nothing would make it go back up. I finished the last few rows with 2 oz and THAT is way too low. Half the rows dropping seed before the drum made it around to the rollers. If you look at the fields overall, they are planted at half rate. Only time and a little rain will tell me where the seed ended up. And that, folks, is the best I am going to get this year. Time to move on.

So just kidding about the scrap yard part. I actually kind of like the planter. Going to block it up in the shed and work on the pressure issue. Pretty sure that is the only problem. Anyone know what I need to get rid of the PTO pump? Is it open center hydraulics that I have to have on the tractor? I used to know this but I don't seem to remember.

Also open to suggestions on a different/backup planter. Old, cheap, and reliable only need apply. I'll listen...even if it is green. Honestly, I have been selling hay a lot of years and the only baler I have ever used is green.
 
Sounds like you just need to fix the pump issue. They do have an oil cooler on them. It sounds like your oil might be getting too hot. Thin oil makes less pressure. The 800 IH is as good as anything out there and the row unit is something they all wish they could copy.
AaronSEIA
 
I was thinking you"d get the most out of it by parting it out to people who still believe those IH are worth messing with. JD 7000 set the standard decades ago, about 1974...for everyone else to copy. Planting is the most important thing you do all year- one chance to get it right. Lots of 7000s go for under 2 grand now...why mess with something that was a morphodite to begin with?
 
CHECK FOR cracked seed box !!!!! or possibly rubber gasket on hopper door !!!! Happened to me. The old 800 does a fine job for me.

John
 
And that jd 7000 for 2 grand won't need any work and will be ready to plant a 1000 a ers and do a perfect job! Perfectly spaced seed perfect seed depth blah blah blah! Not knocking any planter but 2 grand don't get you crap were i live! 56 internationals and 1240 jd bring more than that here in good shape!
 
JD thinks so much of it's planters, that all the new ones are designed little the 800 series was 30yrs ago, but you need to buy a brand now tractor to pull it with. fix your pressure problem and keep right on planting. I'd check for leaks before overhauling the pump.
 
A Case-IH tech must have a way to check the pump. Have you adjusted the relief valve to try to get more flow?
Can't cuss the planter if you don't have it set up correctly. Owners manual is very informative.
 
If that green JD set the standards,, how come you need to buy so much crap to get it to plant and cover the seed?
Every aftermarket catalog you look in has page after page of add ons for a JD planter. I've ran cyclos since 86 and never had a problem. Do what the manual says....if you don't have one, get one.
 


Did you check each rivet around the mid section of the hopper? One rivet missing or broken will lose a lot of pressure. I don't remember if you replaced a fan motor or not, but they are expensive, and before you start throwing money and parts at it, I would plumb it into your tractor and if this doesn't build pressure then you may have a bad motor. You just put a hydraulic fitting onto the hose that would normally plumb into the pump and run a hose to your tractor. Hook it to the top hydraulic outlet and put your lever back to run the fan. The return hose needs to be run to below oil level on your tractors rear end. If you are not planting a lot of acres you can get by running it off of your tractor, yes you have to stop the fan at the end rows, lift up your planter, start your fan and then lower your planter about ten feet sooner when you start down the row so the drum fills when you get to the end of the headland. Planted 200 acres a year this way for 10 years with a worn out 1466 IH, it works. I had more time than money at the time. I plumbed the return hose into the drain plug with a right angle pipe fitting on the mid section of the rear end of the tractor with a breakaway plug in at the rear. If your 1586 has a white side shield it is more than likely an open center, if it is a late model with the red side shield, chances are it has the closed center system, which would have more hydralalic flow and you probably wouldn't have to shut the fan off on the end rows. All my IH"s are open center systems. I have a JD 7200 now and it is a nice planter but I beleive the 800's have better disk penetration in no till because one blade leads the other blade and cuts into the soil better, my observation. I also liked the old cyclo's for clean out when switching varieties.
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JD did set the standard and they cover the seed perfect and I have ran both. Drive down the road and count the first 100 planters u see 80% are deere
 
I had one, use it one season and off it went. I used a 494 until the time I went no til and I thought it was great.
 
Yeah, I did adjust the valve. It is turned all the way. Good indication the pump is tired if you ask me. And, for the record, other than 1660 combine which is too hard to come by, I have an owners manual, parts manual and service manual for every blessed tractor and implement on the place. A personal thing with me, I don't believe in operating stuff that can kill you without reading the books. On the combine I have everything but the service manual. Haven't found one yet. On the Cyclo I even have books for the monitor. I have one entire four drawer file cabinet with nothing but farm manuals in it. Pretty good, eh? :)
 
Ahhh yeah, coming back to me now. I was pretty sure it was open center and their would not be enough flow to raise the planter and run the fan. Did not want to mess with shutting off the fan at the end of each row. Wonder if there is a rebuild kit for this PTO pump? I hate the thing but at least it keeps the drum full of seed at the end of the rows.
 
Too bad, just sold a JD 7000 with rebuilt seed units 2 weeks ago for $1300, guy called and said he loves it. Sold a 1250 JD 6R plateless a couple months ago for $500. Only have one old planter left, which I believe is a 56 IH, too bad the most valuable thing on it is the tires lol.

Ross
 
This place might not be too far from you. The pump is a Eaton B model power steering pump.
This place rebuilds them....
Power Steering Specialists
690 Green Crest Drive
Westerville, Oh. 43081
614.882.2422
 
I won the national corn growers contest back in the early 1980's with a IH cyclo 400 planter. Couldn't been to bad a planter.
 

Dave,

Please let me explain...


No. Please don't shut off your ears, just here me out...

I dislike green paint. I dislike it so much as to have won an art project award in 4th grade, painting a green machine with bullet holes and rust stains. Really, it was good art.

I have a JD 7000 planter now, it is set up conventional, not no-till, or as my dad calls it: "no-grow."


I had that cyclo machine until I just couldn't risk my sanity or my ears. When I plant corn, I like to here myself think. I like to be one with the dirt that I loving pounded to dust in the weeks prior. I don't want you to think I gave up easy. We are talking 8 years of planting, in horrible pain, before I pulled the trigger. Hey... Ol Yeller had to go at the end of that movie. We all cried, but we were better people because of it. But we knew it had to happen. pulling the trigger seems easy, but it is not.




Something cheap to make life easier? JD 7000. parts out the wazooo aftermarket, more advice than drunk uncles at Thanksgiving, more soothing than the Statler Brothers singing 4 part harmony while you run the tractor. No stress, just planting...


Idle the tractor, make a mends with our Savior, and then lift out of the ground on the headlands. All can be done on a whisper that will make Bill Anderson jealous. No stress... Just gentle planting.

I liked my Ford 309 for gentle easy planting, but precise it is not. JD 7000 is. Hands down. Colorblind I am. Yoda I am not.


Don't shoot the planter. Craig has a list that loves you and wants your leftovers. Craig has helped me many times.


AS I pulled my IH 5100 soybean special through the field today, I reminisced about my cyclo-nightm-air. I wanted to own a 706 or a nice IH 560 diesel. But, I pulled it with trusty Blue paint. I will run my Farmall Cub later this week. In the meantime, I will pull red with blue, green with blue, different shade of green with blue, and green with orange. The mst important part is that I will see sprouts in a week, and the sprouts will grow tall and dark green and I will walk through those fields and the only color I will care about is the color green that I see in these fields when no tractor can cross them. I love that color the most. Because of that, I don't care what color I used to grow those beauties. I just care about those gorgeous ladies that make my farm so elegant.

I'm sure you know the feeling. That is what farming really is about.No one is going through the motions when they care. I was told a while ago in Sunday school that if really didn't believe and I was just going through the motions, that I should leave. I thought it was silly to think any would do that. Then I thought about the guy who would pewp on your porch if you ha a green planter and red tractor. That guy is just bored and going through the motions. He doesn't care, or extremely good to the point where his machines are too new to care. MY machines are antiques... or "classic." ...or just downright too important to the operation to screw around with the latter...


I don't go through the motions. I care. I know you care. So caring means loving and learning and understanding. That means understanding that you love the result and the process, but you don't care what color the machines are as long as they make your toil reflect in the stand you raise. Why else would you farm?


I'm so proud to have read all your own toil and experiences through the years. You have come so far so fast. That is the mark of true intelligence. You learn and you love it and I love reading it.

Now... I posted about a cyclo-air I gave away... I don't suggest you do that. I do suggest you have a back-up unit, which is code for "buying more farm equipment and justifying it to the family." I don't suggest drinking, either. I can't anymore. Kidney problems... wetting the bed... But I do suggest digging deep down and pulling up your inner drunk, full of lack of inhibitions. Find that man. Don't beat your kids or cut off people in traffic, but do make a decision to find something that doesn't serve a want to own, but serves a need to fulfill the greater goal. Keep the old planter and wax the paint and tell the grandkids that you used to use it. Use it as a cheap way to fulfill inheritance obligations to lesser family members. That will think you cared and that is all that matters.



That is why I always have had the most admiration for you and your blog of farm tribulations.
 
You had it right the frist time take it to the junk yard. if you want a good planter i have a 7200 JD vac that i will sell as i am retired and dont need it any more i has wet fert and is 8 row set to 36 in rows
 
I'm more of red guy than green, but I never see a red planter like that around here for some reason. I'm about a complete amateur showing up in this game 8 years ago. My finger JD 1760 is about as easy as pie to run. I had a Hiniker air drill for a bit and got tired of messing with the fan trying to run it off a little Kubota. Now I take a Kubota and pull that planter with a 20/20 monitor and it will tell you EVERYTHING. I had one row messing up a bit, it showed me exactly which one. It was mine own fault, fixed it and kept planting corn with 97.5-99% singulation and everything looks good. Drop in the ground at one end, pick up a the other. Need a part, I call Shoup's and it's at my front door tomorrow. Used a 7200 some too, pretty easy. My 2 cents, good luck you'll get her fixed.
 
I paid $200 for mine at the Ingham County consignment sale. Nothing major wrong with it. Just a few adjustments to get it where I needed it. I see them fairly often on Sheridan Online auctions. Many sell for less than $500 normally less than $400. There is a 6 row planter on one of the auctions coming up. I think it ends in a week or less.

Here is a link to the planter/sale. I think it is in Northville which is not to terribly far from you if memory serves me right.

http://bid.sheridanauctionservice.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/7385/lot/932176/?url=%2Fmy-items%2Fwatchlist%2F
6 row planter
 
You've got to understand 800 IH planters as they are not for everyone..If they don't have 7 ounces of air pressure for corn you don't even go to the field with one until you figure out why....I planted for years with a 800 without a monitor..Every 4 rounds I got off the tractor with the planter raised and spun the seed drum with the tractor running full throttle to make sure all rows were planting and to see that the drum had seeds in all pockets...You either have an air leak or your pump is worn out..800's are more forgiving on beans and milo but they have to be perfect for corn..One year my seed dealer forgot to get me rounds and I couldn't plant large flats..It wouldn't hold them in the pockets....Every year when I started planting corn I put just one bag in and it had better plant 3 acres or I had problems..Also 5 to 5.5 mph is about max on speed on corn..I always got a great stand with my 800..
 
Whadda mean, you don't want to hear about it?

For gawd's sake man, fix that air. The gauge is on there for a reason, you've ignored it and now are paying the price.

Allan
 
Well....OK, you are right. I did check with CIH service and the manager actually plants corn and beans on his place with an 800. This was last year and he firmly said it was OK and we planted and it was OK. There was also some discussion that the gauge may not be reading correctly. But you are right, this year is different. Corn is not leaving the hopper, there are misses in the rows, and the pressure drops as the day goes on, etc. There were enough signs to follow, I should have been more on top of it.

I just didn't want to hear anything about 9 lbs of pressure. We plant well at 4-5. When I mention 9 lbs to anyone around here they tell me that is way too much. I have always felt that 4-5 is too low though based on the monitor. I think if I had more like 6-7 then there would be virtually no misses on the monitor. Time will tell...I am working on it and learning as I go.
 
YES. I had a great stand last year and never hit 7 oz. I think if I could get that 7 out of it I would be a happy man with the results. I keep forgetting to mention to those who keep saying "check for leaks". I have done that pretty routinely with tank and gaskets. Yesterday I found a massive leak in the seed drum between the steel edge and the fiberglass end. I caulked this up solidly but the pump did not respond with more pressure. More evidence that the pump is up to only so much output. I am taking that pump off this afternoon and will be trying to get it looked at Tuesday.
 
Dave I bet that you got that IH 800 CHEAP!!!!! Well it was cheap for a reason. They are not the planter a JD or Kinze is. Even with just 40 acres you are paying for a good planter with poor stands. It sounds like you have half your crop planted with poor populations. So lets assume 20 acres with a 20 bushel yield drag. That is 400 bushels lost and that $$1200 is lost. So do this for a few years and you lose the money that would buy you a GOOD PLANTER $$$. That is not even counting the lost time you had this year messing around trying to "fix" your bad stand.

This coming from a fellow that has planted just about FORTY corn crops. I just did population checks on growing seedlings and I have between 34-35 thousand final stands at this stage so far. I panted 36K. So the planter and seed is doing pretty good.

Now you went to the field with a faulty planter. I have never used a IH Cyclone planter on my farm and never will but I have worked on a few. Any thing less than 7-8 on air pressure means you have a problem and need to fix it BEFORE you plant. You either have poor air pressure at the fan or too many leaks down stream. The starting out with X pressure and finishing with a lower Y pressure would seem to mean a bad fan/hydraulic issue. You have told us what planter now we need to know what TRACTOR your trying to pull it with. If your tractor has the hydraulic capacity than dump the PTO pump.

Your call on what to do. I still would dump the IH 800 and call it a life lesson an move on.
 
Thanks John! Much appreciated on a morning where I feel a lot beat up and a little down in the dumps! It is not going to make me or break me if 40 acres of picking corn produces half rate. But you are right, I really care. It makes a difference to me. I ride a desk for a lot of the year so none of this comes easy. Parents grew up on farms and filled my head full of this stuff. I grew up next to a farm and was snake fascinated with everything that went on there. I like old cars but when I got the SMTA and started doing hay way back when it was true love. That was no easy ride either. Just ask me how I feel about JD #5 mowers and I will tell you to take off the bar and caster wheel, attach a chain, and drop it into the lake. Great anchor point for swim raft or sailboat! So now I use an old IH 990...nothing here much younger than 30 years. I do a good job with hay now and have a regular customer base. Just got to step up to the plate and keep swinging...sooner or later you hit a home run! So whatever happens this year, next year I will be right back at it.

I have 9 tractors now. The SMTA is still my favorite but the 1586 is an amazingly versatile tractor. 19K lbs and it can spin on a dime like a hippo in a tutu and head right back down the field. Thanks again for all your help!
 
I said I wouldn't say more,but May of 09 there is a 800 question on Imp.side from man can't get his planter to plant with 5oz.I don't know if still have Op.Manual,but I seem to remember 10 was the goal with 8-9 the very least.
 
7-9 ounces of air is ideal for corn....5 ounces won't hold corn seed in the pockets,especially if its heavy...I liked rounds that were around 38-40 lbs per 80,000 count bag.....5 ounces works great for milo and soybean seed and I often ran 8 mph when planting them...I bought a new 800 pto pump 10 years ago and it was $1000 back then..The 800 IH row units are superior to anything but its the air pressure that always causes problems.....Before the 800 IH I wore out a 400 Cyclo and had very few problems with it..One of the better farmers in our county thats 95% green wore out a 900 IH planter and misses it to this day..Another good farmer runs a 12 row 950 Cyclo and raises great corn..
 
The 900 and 950 had a lot of the kinks worked out and did do a decent job of seed placement if the seed bed is dry and worked smooth, something that is easy in some soils, not in others. Many high yields have been attained from seed planted by them if conditions are right. Seed spacing is where the cyclo falls down. You can't rattle seed down a long tube from the drum to the ground and end up with spacing that compares to a planter that drops the seed from the seed disk right before it hits the ground. How much yield loss comes from uneven spacing is subject to interpretation. I like things perfect, even depth, perfect spacing, perfect even emergence and I am willing to spend some bucks to get there, so I've never had a cyclo on the farm and never will.
 
Will the planter do no till?

I am really happy with the no till on the 7200, and think the 7000 can be fitted for it.
 
No, you are right. The manual does say a high number like that. Thing is, I have service guys at two CIH dealerships telling me that the manual pressure does not work in practice. One of them is the the service manager and plants with an 800. It is kind of hard as a relative novice to get bounced back and forth between manual/forum/dealer. What I can tell you is that I planted with 4-5 oz last year and got a very good stand with spacing that matched the settings I made. So I guess I would have to say that it is possible to get a good stand with less than optimal pressure. Not arguing with you, I appreciate the input. Just letting you know...getting differing info on all sides and I think 6-8 would give me a heckuva result when I reach it.
 
I'm trying to wrap my head around this whole thread...
The most important piece of farm equipment is the planter. It's why farmers trade them off or rebuild them on a regular basis.

How could you expect a 35 year old planter to be reliable or even come close to new performance when it can't even produce the minimum air pressure it needs to operate. What else is completely worn out?

As for the JD, Kinze, vs CaseIH debate I can tell you this. I worked for Precision Plantings (now) parent company, they make millions and millions of dollars making the JD and Kinze planters plant perfect. By a new small JD and then spend 65,000 more to bring it up to precision standards. Thing was they have almost nothing for CaseIH. If you cannot add value and improve a system then you don't have a market there. No CaseIH parts from precision.

The Gen5 research planters for this giant company were all being made from CaseIH planters to the tune of $250,000 per row. No modifications were being made to the row units, just adding automation for planting research plots automatically. They were giving up on the heavily modified other brands including the dedicated research planter companies. The CaseIH systems were better "right out of the box"
 
Well, wrap your head around this...

Primarily, this is an antique tractor site and a lot of people, like me, are using 30+ year old equipment. As a sideline, there is a great interest in the older implements. Many of us have an interest in agriculture or are actual farmers. You should also reread the many times I have mentioned that I consulted with professionals from CIH who told me that experience has shown Cyclos will plant well with less than optimum pressure. They also stated that, since the manual was printed, a little lower pressure has been found to be even a good thing. You will also find where I stated that I planted last year with 4-5 oz and had a great stand. Believe it or don't...not my problem. To the best of my knowledge, having worked on the planter a lot and used it, the only thing wrong with it is an issue with pressure...most likely due to a tired PTO pump and one row is shorted on the harness so the monitor beeps on that one. So if you are a BTO and can afford brand new equipment...good for you. Guess you never had a breakdown during planting. Here it is just part of the deal. I like old equipment, I plant a few acres with it, I learn a lot and take a few lumps. Guys help me here a lot. And that, my friend, is all the thread is about. No harm, no foul.
 
The best corn planter I ever pulled (not the newest or largest) was a jd 4 row 7000 with dry box fertilizer boxes and no till conversion. Planted 50 acres many a day with that planter. Easy to pull, service, repair, adjust and monitor.
 
36F30 You trying to make appoint that CIH planters row units are "perfect" out of the box????? It is funny that the market does not reflect your thinking. You stated that a major after market company made zero attachments for CIH planters. IS this because they are not needed or the fact that the market would be so limited that there is no money to made there.

Some confusion about what you post is all about.
 
Sorry if this is a repeat answer because I didn't read all the responses. But if it hasn't been mentioned, it's important to have a good pliable seal on your seed drum and the drum needs to be in correct alignment with the firewall. There is a procedure and a tool for checking and correcting this but don't recall how it was done. Also, we always used some graphite spray on the firewall where the seal runs to keep it slick and help prevent wear on the seal, which again will cause an air gap. So to repeat, you'll loose air pressure from any gaps between the seal and the firewall so check your seal and your drum alignment.
 
AGREE, the 7000 4r I use proves even the "mentally challenged"(retarded) can farm! Bean meters are a big plus also.
 
(quoted from post at 19:13:29 05/24/15) 36F30 You trying to make appoint that CIH planters row units are "perfect" out of the box????? It is funny that the market does not reflect your thinking. You stated that a major after market company made zero attachments for CIH planters. IS this because they are not needed or the fact that the market would be so limited that there is no money to made there.

Some confusion about what you post is all about.
Just what I observed. There are getting to be more and more red planters here, still the majority are Deere. The local Precision Planting dealer just built a giant new shop and has a yard full of green planters waiting for him to upgrade them. Not a single red one.
The engineers from Precision told me that they could not significantly improve the metering of the case IH units. I was curious, I asked, thats what they told me. The small improvements that they could make were not enough to justify the expense. I was at the time putting every attachment made by Precision on a JD 6 row conservation planter, they were there to assist, as the planter was to be used at their demonstration site. Right before I left, the new Delta Force Hydraulic down pressure system had come in for this planter and I was to remove the Air Force air bags I had just put on it and install the Delta Force. We had over $30,000 of improvements on a 6 row before the hydraulic system arrived.

With all the posts bashing the IH planter and saying get a Deere, I guess it was just my way of saying don't count out the Red.
 
I have 24 antique tractors myself, most were made before I was born. They all have their limitations, but if they don't perform they way expected I fix them. I have also spent untold hours working on an 800. Dad would put his in the shop in the winter and 3 of us would spend almost a month getting it ready to plant. Openers and frogs and rebuilding the depth setting holes, oiling chains and checking every seal and alignments,brushes, sensors,wire harnesses, even replacing the release wheels a time or 2. Basically went through it and fixed or repaired anything that needed it. When it got to the point it was too much to fix, or couldn't be fixed, it got traded off. We still spend a few weeks working on the Kinze getting it in top shape every winter. Unless farming is a hobby, the planter is too important to take to the field unless everything is in top shape. You may not like what I say but its just my opinion and its free. You started out saying yourself you were going to scrap it. You may just need a different planter.
 
(quoted from post at 11:27:28 05/24/15) Thanks John! Much appreciated on a morning where I feel a lot beat up and a little down in the dumps! It is not going to make me or break me if 40 acres of picking corn produces half rate. But you are right, I really care. It makes a difference to me. I ride a desk for a lot of the year so none of this comes easy. Parents grew up on farms and filled my head full of this stuff. I grew up next to a farm and was snake fascinated with everything that went on there. I like old cars but when I got the SMTA and started doing hay way back when it was true love. That was no easy ride either. Just ask me how I feel about JD #5 mowers and I will tell you to take off the bar and caster wheel, attach a chain, and drop it into the lake. Great anchor point for swim raft or sailboat! So now I use an old IH 990...nothing here much younger than 30 years. I do a good job with hay now and have a regular customer base. Just got to step up to the plate and keep swinging...sooner or later you hit a home run! So whatever happens this year, next year I will be right back at it.

I have 9 tractors now. The SMTA is still my favorite but the 1586 is an amazingly versatile tractor. 19K lbs and it can spin on a dime like a hippo in a tutu and head right back down the field. Thanks again for all your help!

I just hope that even if you end up with a machine of a different color, you will be happy.


Shoup can get me parts for my 7000 almost overnight, and they stock every single part for the planter. Cheap as dirt, I may add....


I know all about the super M. my dad had one on the picker for years. It is so easy to fall in love. Years and years later, I bought a C, just for fun, I made it tick like a swiss watch. I held it for a while, but like a finch you find stuck in the weeds, once you hold it in your hands, you realize it belongs in the air and not in your hands.


I sold it to someone who loved it and let it be free of daily torture.

The equipment I do torture daily, gets fed nightly like draft horses. I let the machines be inside and give them grease and oil and clean them if they need it. Sometimes I leave them out for the night,but I let them know it is just for the time and not permanent.

I don't ride a desk, but, I am not far from it. I don't have enough acres because of Marcellus gas, to make a full time living. I used to have.

What I do hope is that you know the pressure is not the issue I think. What I think the issue could be, is the clutch slipping just a tiny little bit. It's doing it evenly enough to not notice the drum not turning, but I don't think it is keeping up with you. You can slow all the way down to 2.5 - 3 mph. I do it all the time. It feels so horrible, but I just accepted it. I settled down in the cab and just went along for the ride. Where else can you have that view and that feeling? enjoy the ride. I always do...

I just hope that when you consider a planter that is not the one you have, that you consider a planter that almost every farmer has or had, and every part is available instantly. Also, the aftermarket caters to upgrades and things you would never consider, but do add more precision. I would not suggest 30 year old equipment, that has proved to be unreliable for 30 years. No jabs at pre-Tenneco merger red paint... I do own and care deeply for my red paint. That is only because I have done enough "test plots" to make the equipment compete with newer equipment, but on a shoestring budget.

Next year, you will be better off, regardless. You will get this figured out and you will succeed. I have faith and I know you will do well.

Enjoy the hay season that is fast approaching.
 

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