Corn problem...getting to the bottom of it.

Dave H (MI)

Well-known Member
So I spent all day out there. Dug up a lot of samples all over the place. I'll back up a couple steps here. The seed last year was large flat. This year is small round. Count is the same. A couple of questions came up about the monitor. Yes, I have one. The planter is an 8 row and all of the sensors are new. There is either a problem with the harness, however, or maybe just slow seed delivery on the eighth row as it has always shown that it is not planting even though it is. Other than that, the monitor would tell me here and there that certain rows were not planting and then they would drop off the monitor and be fine again. It has done that for as long as I have owned it. I had spoken to CIH service and others and was told that it would do that. They said it was sensitive and any momentary disruption in the timing of seed past the sensor would give a quick error for that row. Other than row 8, none of the rows was perpetually on the monitor. I have to tell you that I don't much care for posts where people try to point a finger and accuse. Not productive and not helpful, but do it if you must. Keep in mind, also, that it is the most basic monitor. It does not give any detail other than a row number.

Now to the digging!!! I have about 40 acres of cornfield on this property for 2015. This 40 acres consist of two small fields and one larger field. About 10,10, and 20 acres respectively. The first field we planted was down by the road and is a 10 acre piece. Sample digging here showed corn seed at 8-10" intervals. Keep in mind, I will not find ALL the seeds in a furrow.

The second field we planted was the other 10 acres. It is divided by a swale. I don't plant there because if it gets wet the corn won't grow and last year my tenant sunk a big tractor in it to the frame. So I plant it in two parts. The back part had corn at about 10-12" intervals that I could find. The front half also about the same. Unless I am missing a lot of seed, and i likely am, this is a little short of normal.

The large field was planted east to west and the samples on the eastern rows and all headlands show similar density of around 10-12" intervals of located seed. As I moved to the center of this field, however, I was having difficulty finding seed. As I moved to the western rows, the seed was almost non existant.

I have about 150 lbs in the planter. My plan is to go back to the western end of the last field and replant in reverse until I have used up what I was supposed to put in the ground. After that I will leave it in God's hands.

So he may have been kidding, but I am taking neighbor rrlund's advice, unless someone has a better idear.
 
Sounds like a plan. Keep planting til you get to the area where you are happy with the population. 10 inch spacing is quite light, I like to see about 6 inches to get 32,000 seeds per acre, but your farm differs from mine. I think you will be OK with the advice given.

Ben
 
Yep...the pattern indicates that I am either developing a leak in the pressure system or the PTO pump is maybe losing power. I will look at both in the AM and see if can figure it out. Gauge is hard for me to read thru the rear window with all the dust. I think I may have missed some pressure issues but I will know for sure tomorrow. Easy fix if so, BTDT.
 
Dave H, I must of missed the part where you found the problem as to why it was not planting enough. I hope you got it figured out.
 
I was never around a cyclone planter but tend to agree with jd seller. Using older equipment if you can get a jd or kinze planter where the mechanics of each row are independent and each row has its own seed box that is easier to manage
 
Low pressure can be a problem for sure. And those PTO pumps are a pain. I run my planter right off of the tractors remote hydraulics, on constant flow. But you must have the return line going directly back into the tractors oil resevoir, and not through the remote coupler. Has some thing to do with the orbital motor on the fan, and will cause the fan to fail. Yes some times when you lift the planter at the end of the row it will cause the pressure to drop for a bit , but so what . You are not planting when the planter is raised. I like this system much better than the PTO pump,less fooling around to hook up. Bruce
 
Couple questions and remarks.Are you running a 24 or 36 hole drum??Are you coating your seal where the drum gasket runs with a graphite coating so the drum is free??The 36s always seem to do a lot better.We run Cyclos for 35 yrs(2 were 8 rows and all but 1 had a POP monitor that told you what each row was planting vs just showing whether or not).There shouldn't be ANY gap or stopping of like you are saying.As far as finding seeds on 1 side of field and not on other,IH never had a GOOD depth control until the 1200 series and I think you are having a seed depth problem due to different ground conditions.One year is bad enough,but the second year with the same problem is UNEXCUSABLE,as older people use to say "DON"T BE PENNY WISE AND POUND FOOLISH"
 
The monitor tells you the air pressure in the system. Mine runs between 8.6 and 9.
Check the sprockets on the transmission again, real easy to get driver and driven mixed up.
What population are you shooting for? Can tell you what sprockets go where.
If the brush is good and air is right, and sprocket combination is correct, those planters pretty much plant what the chart says.
 

I really hope I wasn't being disruptive in my last post. I try to give solid advice. I also try to look on the bright side of things. I won't tell you are stupid or give you a date that you should plant. I live north, in southwestern PA, in the base of the mountains. We can't start planting here until May 10th. that is the first day I can put it in the ground and has been for 240 years of my family planting in the same farm.

Planting May 30th, I had gotten 268 bushel per acre. Anyone who thinks that may 20 is too late, I have a package of round soft reproductive organs that you can lick... I am serious... I hate this IDEA that the whole world is the same.


It is not.





so...



With that said, if you are finding seed at 10 to 12 intervals, it was planted light. I don't know what changed.


I can tell you that I have had rows 4-6 inches apart, and the corn head will take the ears. It doesn't matter too much. you get close, and the thing will take the ears off.


I wish you the best and I don't mean to be mean. I want to be there when you plant, but we aren't neighbors at all. If we were, I would help you personally.

cheese cloth on the end of that air tube, drive forward 17.5 feet, count the seeds in the bag. should be 32 or 34.


that's what I did with my cyclo air. after that, I sold it. no wait, let's back up...


I got drunk, very drunk. I peeeed on it, and threw rocks at it. Then I tried to get it to do what I wanted. it did not comply. I drank more, peeeedmore on it, gave it a final send off that was short of a bonfire...


then I put it on craigslist and listed it for free. I asked that the new owner fixed the electric in my building or hire someone who could.


It didnt' work out, but it is gone.


what can I say?

I can't, and I wont. I dont' know how many acres you run yours. I know that I don't like john deere. I like red paint. I like blue paint. but I bought a JD after owning that planter.


you tell me. what did you do before planting? did you estimate on spacing with a 17 and a half foot test run? Wish I was there. I would help you infinitely until we got that thing going as good as it will.


Good luck. Always.


John
 
I have to differ with you there. The Cyclo 800 had three monitor options, the top of the line being called (I think) "the performance center". I have a manual for one and will look at it, but the monitor that came with my planter is the bottom of the line option and it is called "the seed saver II". This basic monitor does two things only...monitor if seed is going past the sensors and tell you if the hopper is low. You can adjust the hopper monitor, but frankly, it is not a problem. The others I think are preset. IF seed flow drops in any of the 8 rows it flashes that number on the little 1x2 display and screams at you. Since it is not exactly high tech and seed flow fluctuates all the time, it puts up numbers pretty regularly and screeches a lot. Most people I know turn the fool thing off...I do not. I cover my ears and keep an eye on it.

In terms of pressure, I have never been able to get 8-9 psi out of my 1000 rpm pto pump (or the gauge is not correct). We have planted at 5 psi based on the recommendations of the service people at our three local CIH dealerships and pretty much everyone else we know who uses one. It worked great last year at that pressure. This year is a little different. The dust and distance are giving me fits trying to read the gauge. I'm working on a solution to that.
 
I apologize, but I cannot remember off hand which drum it is and this particular field is my furthest...20 miles. I do spray graphite and we keep the drive train very clean. Conditions are a little strange this year. Good moisture about 4" down but filthy dusty on top. We have to blow off the drive line every 10-15 acres or the grit starts dragging on the mechanism and the slip clutch jumps a tooth or two. And, by the by, (I think it was you) I am taking the monitor advice to heart...I need a better one.
 
Hey John, don't get the idea I made any comments directed at you unless they were positive. Your last post, like many you have sent me, was immensely helpful AND it made me laugh. I don't think I have made it clear how upsetting this was Wednesday. I left the whole works sitting in the middle of the field at 7:30 PM and drove home in disgust. Two posts were the most helpful...rrlund was one. He gave me good advice and made me smile when I needed it. Your post about the test plots and the nosy neighbors had me laughing out loud! I told my wife I was going to do up signs that said things like "F1, Nx2" and such and post them at intervals along the road. Then when the local BTO's cruise by they can scratch their heads and say..."dunno what it means, but it didn't work out!"

Appreciate the good advice and the smiles!
 
One or two last things,you NEED to know what drum you have because of the seed settings.The 36 hole drum runs a lot slower them the 24 and if you use the 36 chart with the 24 drum,then your seed count will be maybe 2/3 or less of what you need.As far as your dirt-dust problem,that is a new one to hear.You have something wrong somewhere else.I can't tell you on the 1000 because they were never used even tho we had them,but Dad's tractor only had 540 and they had flo adj.that let you go from 0 to 12 with seed in drum. Run 9-11 planting.LASTLY IN 35 YRS.I don't ever remember the alarm going off unless something quit completely.None of these maybes.Hope maybe helps.
 
You know, I worked on that fool thing for 6 hours today before I planted a seed and I still cannot tell you which drum it was!! What I will tell you is this, it is the same drum I used last year. Last year I had a great stand with good population. Sprockets were not changed since last year. Don't know what is up with the dust or if it even is the dust, but the planter works fine when I start and then the clutch starts slipping when I have done about 20 acres. Maybe just a worn clutch driver (or driven). Appreciate your help.
 

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