Starter Robs Current or Not?

Kajun

Member
Gents:

Thread below prompts me to ask this question. I am truly electrically/ignition challenged . I've read the thread w.o. understanding much -- always true for me on electrical issues.

Here is question . Two years ago I fitted my 1960 Cub with Petronix ignition , Hitachi alternator and recommended coil . I did not change the six volt starter . Tractor runs and starts beautifully . I have noticed for last year , however , that the tractor starts best , even if cold , if I only bump starter . Otherwise it grinds and starts much slower . Seems to be related to thread below . Any guidance for me or need for me to change anything ?

Much obliged.
 
(quoted from post at 10:18:56 05/19/15) Gents:

Thread below prompts me to ask this question. I am truly electrically/ignition challenged . I've read the thread w.o. understanding much -- always true for me on electrical issues.

Here is question . Two years ago I fitted my 1960 Cub with Petronix ignition , Hitachi alternator and recommended coil . I did not change the six volt starter . Tractor runs and starts beautifully . I have noticed for last year , however , that the tractor starts best , even if cold , if I only bump starter . Otherwise it grinds and starts much slower . Seems to be related to thread below . Any guidance for me or need for me to change anything ?

Much obliged.

After making sure all your connections are clean tight and bright the next step with your symptoms is to take the starter into a shop and have them go through it. Sounds like you starter has bad bushing and the armature is dragging causing the starter to draw more electricity to turn. That may be enough to draw off the needed voltage to make your IE work. IE is very voltage sensitive.

Rick
 
When it's in the shop ask them to put the armature on a growler to see if any of the windings are shorted. This can cause the starter to draw more current than it normally would. It is also possible that the slots on the commutator are filled with carbon from the brushes and need to be cleaned out. Both bushings shud be checked and short brushes shud be preplaced.
 
A more direct answer, Yes! Early Chrysler products like 40's were known to be hard to start. The remedy for some was to use heavier primary wire. The mechanics claimed it remedied the situation,
 
Reason is that the 6 volt starter spins the engine much faster on 12 volt then it did on 6 volt, probably faster then the tractor idles!! It may help to open the throttle some but probably not!!! Think you will notice that regardless how long you crank it that it dosent start till you let OFF the starter!!! Not uncommon, H's and M's will do the same if using 6 volt starter with 12 volt system!!!
 
thats true.....I have a 54 Chevy pickup with the 6v starter and 12v battery. The starter spins it faster than it idles. First time I tried starting it with the 12v battery I cranked on it for quite a bit before giving up and thinking it was out of gas. I let off an jumped out to go get the gas can only to realize it was running. Now I just barely bump it and it's running. I don't think it even goes half a turn before it starts. I don't think this is the case on the other thread in this forum though since he said he had no spark while cranking.
 
Thanks txturbo and 44 Massey . I say if it starts with a bump , who is to complain. So glad to hear others act the same way.

kajun
 
(quoted from post at 13:47:07 05/19/15) Reason is that the 6 volt starter spins the engine much faster on 12 volt then it did on 6 volt, probably faster then the tractor idles!! It may help to open the throttle some but probably not!!! Think you will notice that regardless how long you crank it that it dosent start till you let OFF the starter!!! Not uncommon, H's and M's will do the same if using 6 volt starter with 12 volt system!!!

Not if it's done right. I have 3 tractors converted to 12 volt, 2 that I did and one I purchased that way. The 2 I did still using 6 volt starters one converted to IE too, start as you would expect and engine to start as it is cranking. The one I didn't do the conversion on starts when you let off the starter button as described by the original post. That will be getting addressed this week. Primary cause in this case is always something preventing the ignition system from getting enough current to fire properly while power is applied to the starter. That's why they fire as you stop cranking. All of a sudden, while the engine is still turning power is stopped to the starter and the ignition system gets all the power.

Rick
 
Rick:

When you get yours diagnosed would you post and tell us the fix. As I said above to 44 Massey and Txturbo who can complain about a tractor that starts with one bump to the starter . Still , I'm curious about the fix.

Best and thanks.

kajun
 
(quoted from post at 12:23:13 05/20/15) Rick:

When you get yours diagnosed would you post and tell us the fix. As I said above to 44 Massey and Txturbo who can complain about a tractor that starts with one bump to the starter . Still , I'm curious about the fix.

Best and thanks.

kajun

Sure, no big deal. I wanted to get to it today but my afternoon VA appointment ran overtime and I just didn't have time to mess with it. Shouldn't be anything too hard. One thing I haven't even looked at is how the aftermarket ignition switch is wired. As I said before check the wiring to see if it matches how I said it should be wired. Because you have IE you should be aware that the Pertronix IE is very sensitive to voltage drop. So if your starter is drawing too much power because of a problem that 12 volt is hiding it could crank OK but be pulling voltage down enough that the IE isn't firing. Most common other faults are wired wrong, battery not fully charged and or dirty connections. And yes, I've seen and worked on charging systems that the only problem was connections so dirty that they would not pass enough electricity to recharge the battery.

Rick
 

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