buickanddeere
Well-known Member
How pray tell was my wind turbine post poofed? Some absenti land owner is placing wind turbines close to existing residents.
- Thread starter buickanddeere
- Start date
I missed that.
Some wind turbines are well documented to cause health problems to near residents. Low frequency vibrations, long history in industrial settings. Birds are another issue.
In my county, esthetics were the concern. They effectively banned all installations with sever height restrictions. I had to jump through some hoops for an old windmill to pump water.
Some wind turbines are well documented to cause health problems to near residents. Low frequency vibrations, long history in industrial settings. Birds are another issue.
In my county, esthetics were the concern. They effectively banned all installations with sever height restrictions. I had to jump through some hoops for an old windmill to pump water.
Adirondack case guy
Well-known Member
You have a choice!! support local energy independance, or send your money to the ragheads.
B&D, you seam to be an electronics guro, I'm surprised that you don't have your own residential wind turbine, or a water powered turbine.
Loren, the Acg.
B&D, you seam to be an electronics guro, I'm surprised that you don't have your own residential wind turbine, or a water powered turbine.
Loren, the Acg.
I support them, I think everywhere
that uses electricity should have them
and the number match how much
electricity they use. Which means the
cities would have many and the rural
areas few. This would also save the
problems of building transmission
lines to carry the electricity to the
populated areas.
that uses electricity should have them
and the number match how much
electricity they use. Which means the
cities would have many and the rural
areas few. This would also save the
problems of building transmission
lines to carry the electricity to the
populated areas.
John M
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nunyafn business
Maybe it was the word you manipulated to get past the filters.
ShadetreeRet
Well-known Member
That's the problem with those who are uneducated in country ways. They get on a roll and don't know when to stop. I agree with not approving wind turbines, but an old windmill standing silhouetted against the sky is not only a pleasing sight, but a reminder of how things were done in bygone days.
Counties in the Thumb area of Michigan are the hotspot for them and there's moratoriums until they can redo the laws. Driving by them is pretty unnerving and I can't imagine one wailing away next door. These things are massive and there are issues with the vibrations and strobe effect they can have on residents and drivers. The tree-huggers have got the ear of the gov'ment eco-nazis and I don't see any way of stopping them (except keeping up the fracking to keep oil prices low).
Ron Muhlenkamp
Member
When the wind blows, it takes 7-8 windmills to provide as much energy as one gas well, and we now put 10-12 gas wells on one pad.
Bob Harvey
Well-known Member
Do your homework ! ! ! 'Fracking disturbs more than just oil pockets, it (in Many documented cases) screws up the water table. What would you rather have; drinkable water or light your shower nozzle on fire. Shake your head !
Cory Schmidt
Well-known Member
I have no problem with them. At one time there was a plan for a wind farm around here. That was till state restrictions and other things made all the land that the outfits (Several name changes, contract changes...) had listed, that the land owners would be willing to have them on, became basically unusable. Then on top of that the big, pay the interest farms didn't want them because they couldn't fly across the fields with the mega sized equipment they own.
Speaking of that last point; I would have loved to be a fly on the wall. The neighbor up the road was thinking about selling, unlisted, his property. He went to one big farm about it, mentioned he put it on the list to have the wind turbine put on. I heard that he was almost literally thrown off of the property for just mentioning them.
Speaking of that last point; I would have loved to be a fly on the wall. The neighbor up the road was thinking about selling, unlisted, his property. He went to one big farm about it, mentioned he put it on the list to have the wind turbine put on. I heard that he was almost literally thrown off of the property for just mentioning them.
Bob Harvey
Well-known Member
AND the ones that weren't pumping H2O generated 32v that charged batteries that powered the farm. I almost got one of those suckers working when I had to leave the joint and work for 4 years (hard) and ended up losing the place. POOP ! !
Turbines cannot be closer than 550 m from a residence, regardless of who is erecting them, absentee landowner or not. The depth of a square hundred acre farm is just over 650 m so any turbine placed on one would have to be at the very back of the farm. This is in Ontario; different jurisdictions will have different conditions, as will the leases for the turbines.
Ben
Ben
We have over 100 windmills in my county. I really could care less one way or the other. Are they a long term solution? No. But they are
bringing my customers tons of money, that trickles down to me. I have noticed there are basically two camps, those that like them and
own viable land, and jealous people who don't. These windmills have provided much needed infrustructure dollars on top of replacing
roads. I don't buy the noise argument, either. People who say they are noisey have never been near one and usually are regurgitating
what they heard. I have been within 100 yards of one in my area while in operation and had to strain to hear it. The pitch on the blades
of these is variable, so the blades flatten out as they pass the post to eliminate the whoop noise. A squeaky antique farm windmill, while
quaint, would drive me insane.
bringing my customers tons of money, that trickles down to me. I have noticed there are basically two camps, those that like them and
own viable land, and jealous people who don't. These windmills have provided much needed infrustructure dollars on top of replacing
roads. I don't buy the noise argument, either. People who say they are noisey have never been near one and usually are regurgitating
what they heard. I have been within 100 yards of one in my area while in operation and had to strain to hear it. The pitch on the blades
of these is variable, so the blades flatten out as they pass the post to eliminate the whoop noise. A squeaky antique farm windmill, while
quaint, would drive me insane.
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
I still have friends in the power industry. They all have said the same thing. Wind turbines are a dangerous joke.If a fire starts in one they let it
burn. Blade break fails,run. Wind farms being shut down because the power being produced has no where to go. Transmission lines can't handle the
output.I did support work on the farm in west Texas.Construction manger told me they were a joke. But they paid the bills. More and more are being
left to rust.
burn. Blade break fails,run. Wind farms being shut down because the power being produced has no where to go. Transmission lines can't handle the
output.I did support work on the farm in west Texas.Construction manger told me they were a joke. But they paid the bills. More and more are being
left to rust.
Chuck (CA)
Well-known Member
Dean, for fours now, California has been in a drought. That part is not man made. Our officials have been dragging there heels for years to come up with a plan B. That part is man made. The Pacific ocean is here. Desalinization is a solution. The Columbia River bordering Oregon and Washington dumps million of gallons like every hour into the Pacific. They could funnel that this way. That's a solution. And, people don't need green lawns right now. That's a partial solution. There is a mega Almond Farm run by Trinitas behind our home running over 400 deep water wells to irrigate. My neighbors' wells are going dry and I suspect mine will dry up soon. I just don't have the bucks to dig a new one right now..It's scary.
Not sure what my point was now.
Not sure what my point was now.
Bob, In regard to your comment that if people had land in wind farm areas and were offered money they would take it. I have land and have been offered money, and NO I will not take it. First of all, the wind turbines are not efficient enough to justify their construction, Second, they waste way way way too much of our TAX DOLLARS subsidizing the already too rich utilities, and Third, there are some people that their health really is negatively affected if they are too close to these stupid things. Unfortunately most of the wind farms here in the thumb of Michigan have been allowed to build their turbines too close to residences, and they have also been allowed to build turbines that are encroaching on property that they do not have leased. All those people that claim how wonderful they are do not have them encroaching on their property and making their property worthless as they will never be able to build on it. If the turbines were worthwhile they could afford to buy the property, build their turbines and profit without abusing land owners and wasting our TAX DOLLARS on them.
Actually most of our electricity comes from coal so the money isn't going overseas.
The number of wind generators needed to power one small city 24/7 is astounding. It's not a practical solution. So do a little research before jumping one way or the other. On this issue you are going to find stuff claiming studies that make it look feasible and others that totally discredit those studies with thier own studies.
Rick
The number of wind generators needed to power one small city 24/7 is astounding. It's not a practical solution. So do a little research before jumping one way or the other. On this issue you are going to find stuff claiming studies that make it look feasible and others that totally discredit those studies with thier own studies.
Rick
Bob, you have apparently watched way too many fictional movies. Frac'ing has never caused anyone's tap water to light on fire. Some of those claims were found to be that the homeowner purposely had a propane tank tapped into their water supply to provide the flames, others were water wells that were drilled in the early 1900's that have ALWAYS been able to light their tap water on fire. Water wells typically 100' to 200' deep. Oil and Gas wells that are frac'ed, are typically 4,000' to 10,000' deep. Frac'ing process affects between 300' and 500' from the well bore, no way ever that it could have affected ground water wells, ever.
1948CaseVAI
Well-known Member
I suspect we would all like the country to be energy independent, but we will not get there with windmills. Windmills can't even pay their own way.
Fracking is only a temporary solution. I've been on a couple well service company sites and the general consensus of the folks I've talked to is that a fracked well has about an extra 5 years production. Hardly a long term solution. Even if we opened up the offshore areas and national parks the easy oil is limited. Sun and wind aren't going anywhere anytime soon. It may not be as easy and cheap as hydrocarbon fuels but as energy prices continue to rise (which they inevitably will) it will even out and without a subsidy it will be cheaper to cover your barns, sheds, and rooftop with solar panels and put a small wind turbine(s) on your property and generate your own electricity (true energy independence). I'm working with some flywheel uninterruptable power supplies at work right now that use a massive flywheel that acts as a giant rotor in a brushless DC motor/generator. With some smart switching you can use your solar/wind to get a 1400lb flywheel moving and when the wind stops blowing and sun stops shining you can used the energy stored in the flywheel inverted back to AC power. No more batteries. Prohibitively expensive right now for home use but will come down in price as manufacturing volumes and demand increases.
This country has a hard time looking forward more than a couple years.
This country has a hard time looking forward more than a couple years.
CA lost that one in court, the fish won. You ain't going to change that. And Mother Nature is never nice and you will never beat her. Now CA gotta figure out how to fix it. Sorry, live in a flood plain you are going to get wet. Live in an area like CA, over populate, try to stretch farm production you are going to have problems getting enough water.
Rick
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
How do and turbines that operate 1/3 of the time and solar panels that operate of 1/4 of the day in good weather . Provide the electricity required 24/7 and reduce dependence on the Middle East.
It's Europe, Southern Asia and eastern Asia that is funding the Middle East. The US only moves enough Middle East oil to ensure that all crude oil transactions world wide occur with US dollars.
The wind turbines force the rate payer to subsidize oil companies that own wind turbines with 13.5 cents instead of 0 to 3 cents current market rate. The oil companies now also own carbon credits from the wind turbines.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Those rural persons in favour of wind turbines own multiple farms . The wind turbine is placed on the farm land away from thier personal buildings. However they have no problems placing that turbine just across the fence from a neighbour's house.
The way our industry now sizes these is to provide power in the event of utility loss to genset start-up. High load, short duration events.
A single 750 kVA rated flywheel will run a 20kW load for a little less than 10 minutes.
20kW is about 16 times the average customer load (1.25 kW or about 900 kWh/year). This would lead to about 2.7 hours without any generation or grid power. Night time usage is about half of daytime usage in a residential setting getting you to 5.4 hours usage. Parallel 2 flywheels and you've got enough stored energy to power an average electric customer through the night. With a little thinking and forethought you can reduce nighttime usage even more.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Power use over night or during mid day in good weather is not the issue . To supply power from the time morning demand and increases from base load until solar can pickup peak power by 9-10AM. Then supply the afternoon and evening peaks from 3:00PM through max AC loads, cooking supper, washing dishes and street lights.
Wind turbines in Ontario are subsidized by Feed in Tariff Programs (FIT)
The nameplate capacity of the turbine is multiplied by the efficiency factor and then multiplied by a KW/hr rate
A wind turbine of 3 MW nameplate capacity) has a said efficiency factor of 28% x 3 MW x 13.5 cents per KW.
The wholesale electrical rate is about 7.5 cents/KW so the consumer ends up paying almost 2 x what the electricity is worth to the wind developer.
Ontario has about 1900 Turbines currently. They can produce about 7% of the provinces requirements at full capacity- but that has only happened a few times - usually in off peak hours when they have to sell off the excess energy to NY State or Quebec. Ontario now has the highest electricity rates in Canada and I believe is third or fourth highest in North America.
Heavy Industry is now being subsidized by the taxpayer to keep them in the province and there are now plans to subsidize low income residents.
There are plans to eventually install up to 6000 turbines. I really don't know what will eventually happen. Some of the original government proponents of Green Energy Program have already fled the scene.
I'd like to think that sanity will eventually prevail.
The nameplate capacity of the turbine is multiplied by the efficiency factor and then multiplied by a KW/hr rate
A wind turbine of 3 MW nameplate capacity) has a said efficiency factor of 28% x 3 MW x 13.5 cents per KW.
The wholesale electrical rate is about 7.5 cents/KW so the consumer ends up paying almost 2 x what the electricity is worth to the wind developer.
Ontario has about 1900 Turbines currently. They can produce about 7% of the provinces requirements at full capacity- but that has only happened a few times - usually in off peak hours when they have to sell off the excess energy to NY State or Quebec. Ontario now has the highest electricity rates in Canada and I believe is third or fourth highest in North America.
Heavy Industry is now being subsidized by the taxpayer to keep them in the province and there are now plans to subsidize low income residents.
There are plans to eventually install up to 6000 turbines. I really don't know what will eventually happen. Some of the original government proponents of Green Energy Program have already fled the scene.
I'd like to think that sanity will eventually prevail.
Owen Aaland
Well-known Member
Unfortunately since wind and solar can not be depended on to provide power all the time we still need to have enough traditional capacity. Nuclear and fossil fueled fired generating plants can't quickly go off and on line so they end up generating excess power when not needed. That excess power that must be sold off is often sold at less than the cost of generating it so it is just another hidden expense caused by wind and solar.
Not correct in this area. Many lease holders (farmers) have wind turbines on their home farm located the required minimum distance away. (550m) Turbines cannot be placed "just across the fence" from their neighbours house unless it is 550 m away at least. I was not allowed to have a turbine on my farm since it could not be located in such a spot that it would be at least 550 m away from any POTENTIAL building site on an adjacent 50 acre (vacant) farm. I currently have no turbines on either farm because placement/cumulative noise (40 db) issues could not be adequatley or properly (within the guidelines) addressed. I do agree the plan is poorly executed but the technology and the science behind it is sound. I am not going into any deep discussions (having done so many times) on this forum; anyone disputing my facts can do a proper and thorough search of reams of material available and glean your own facts from that.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
550m and down wind without a mature stand of 60ft forest/bush/woods between your home and the wind turbine. Is just across the fence. Don't forget to take your epilepsy medication during that two hours of morning and evening sun flicker caused by those rotating blades.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbIe0iUtelQ
That's why strict set back rules should be in place before allowing development of a wind farm.
Seems to me the obvious answers are clean coal, nuclear, hydro and natural gas. Wind, solar, mini-hydro- all are great for those situated so they can use them, but most people aren't and most people aren't into a less than "normal" lifestyle that it usually demands. Personally, I find the giant wind mills awesome and beautiful, a credit to mans ingenuity. But they don't pay. All the greenies with their solar claiming they're saving the world forget where all the material to make the panels and wire and controls and everything else comes from. Nothing is free. Conservation would be a big help but in the end more clean coal, nukes, gas and hydro will provide the surest supply.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
I don't need to watch that video. I already know first hand the effects of those whirling monsters. The intersection of highways 148 and 92 in Iowa is an area that I avoid like the plague.
DLMKA, sounds like the type of wells you are speaking of are conventional wells that are pretty much used up, some companies have used frac'ing to re-stimulate those particular wells
to get a little more out of them. The real frac'ed wells, are those out in North Dakota, and primarily Pennsylvania, where they could not get ANY useful amounts of oil or gas out of
those formations until Frac'ing was developed. These are the same wells that have allowed the US to become a much smaller Importer of overseas oil, and have also caused the current
crash in oil prices. Frac'ing is a longer term solution than the current fiasco wind turbines they are building. While wind and solar are getting better, they really need to spend
another 10 to 20 years developing better more efficient ones before wasting our entire infrastructure and Tax Dollars feeding the hungry pockets of the huge Utility executives that
are currently getting rich at our expense, and which will also cause major power outages and brownouts coming next year due to stupid moves by the EPA and those idiots in Washington
DC.
to get a little more out of them. The real frac'ed wells, are those out in North Dakota, and primarily Pennsylvania, where they could not get ANY useful amounts of oil or gas out of
those formations until Frac'ing was developed. These are the same wells that have allowed the US to become a much smaller Importer of overseas oil, and have also caused the current
crash in oil prices. Frac'ing is a longer term solution than the current fiasco wind turbines they are building. While wind and solar are getting better, they really need to spend
another 10 to 20 years developing better more efficient ones before wasting our entire infrastructure and Tax Dollars feeding the hungry pockets of the huge Utility executives that
are currently getting rich at our expense, and which will also cause major power outages and brownouts coming next year due to stupid moves by the EPA and those idiots in Washington
DC.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
No, one youtube video demonstrates that it's a real problem if you live in that house (or any house similarly situated to a wind turbine). What would a "proper and thorough search" turn up? More videos? Do you think you could find a house similarly situated on a sunny day with the sun at the same angle that DOESN'T throw a shadow? Good luck. How many videos like this would it take to be considered "non-anecdotal"? I don't consider that video to be "anecdotal" unless you claim it's been doctored.
Here in Ontario, the setback for turbines is 550m---that is over 1800 feet, which makes it almost twice as far as the 1000 foot setback in the video. Again, properly placed, the impact is much less. In this area, there are far more conditions that have to be met (environmental, archaelogical, physical barriers, lot lines and roadways and on and on) before construction can begin. Oh, by the way, the nearby nuclear plant is issuing potassium iodide pills to everyone within 50 km (30 miles)---so which would you sooner have for a neighbour?
Ben
Ben
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Check and see who is forcing the KI pill fiasco .
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Link to turbine info. Note it's the developer's web site so there just maybe a chance that the report could be slanted .
http://leaderresources.ca/majestic-wind-farm/
K Effective
Well-known Member
I'm not sure any of the utilities behind the wind farms are convinced they will ever become economically viable- but are pretty much forced to participate to offset the older generation and emit the proper public persona. I work for a huge player in the electricity field, an old-school dirt-burning giant with tiny pockets of hydro and now shares in wind and solar. We are lucky a former CEO saw the value in transmission, and we now control all the back and forth from MI to TX- which is probably more profitable than all the generation. I'm really glad the company continues to see the benefit of having the big, base-load non-coal plant that funds my farming habit... :wink:
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