Our Economy

Stock market is falling do to economy news.
You can read blogs that say we are poised to pull our self out of this slump.
People talk about how tight their personal budget is and they are having trouble paying bills.
Even posters on this site talk about how bad times are in their area due to job loss.
Everywhere you look you can see people talking about how bad our economy is in the U.S.


Then on the other hand..........
I picked up 4 tires for a pickup yesterday. The bill was COD so I got to see the cost. $2800 for four 20 inch pickup mud tires. And they were going from a distribution site to a tire dealer so this is the wholesale price. These tires must retail for well over $1000 each.
I delivered to a pool and patio center a few weeks ago. They were putting together a patio set. I commented how nice the set looked. Guy said they should. Chairs are $800 to $1200 each and table is $2000.
Stop 10 people on the street. What do you think are the odds of finding 1 person without a cell phone.
Look at all the luxury items in new cars/pickups that are now standard equipment because everyone expects those items in cars anyway.
Watch how people drive. They go from the interstate entrance ramp to the left lane in 100 feet. And then have nerve to complain about how much gasoline cost and how bad MPG they get.
I do not really see how anyone reading this can complain about how tight money is for them when they must be able to afford the un-necessary cost of a computer and internet service.

So is it really our economy is bad and people are really struggling to pay their bills.
Or is it more we are struggling to pay for everything we expect and want in our life. Hence trying to live on a $100,000 lifestyle while working a $50,000 job.
And I would guess that the employers fault because he does not pay you $100,000 to cover your lifestyle.

We really need a reality check in this country.
Take everyone that complains about how rough their poor life is and plop them on the great plains in a sod house during the dirty 30's. Then see how rough they think their life is today.
 
I live on disability. The cost of food and medicine and doctors. Has made it very hard on me. Even if I was well. Just paying my bills is a struggle.The feed store where I hang out has let three people go. Business is very slow.Not like it was when I moved here in 2009.
 
Yes I have a cell phone, but don't make many calls. I had to sell the wheat farm, Sold two tractors, Trucks, Small green house, livestock just to pay bills. At 71 Still having to work out to pay bill. Eye glasses $600, Hearing aids $2600. Food $200 per cart. Tires for pickup $850. fuel $2.89. Pickup 13 years old. No money to even visit family. And with all that said we still enjoy life, and what we do have. Once the Gov and most CEO get their act together. Not all, but most of the middle glass has went down hill. The rich is still controlling this Country.
 
I have seen two W-2's this year with wages exceeding $1 million. I would say only about 1-2% of the returns this year have unemployment W-2 forms. Almost every middle class return I touch shows an increase in income of $10-15K. Dividends are up and Capital Gains are off the chart. Interest income is still low. On the low income returns, income is fairly static, not much by way of investment income. Just paying on the mortgage and taxes. The very low income folks still have no health insurance and are excluded from the penalty under the Affordable Care Act. Just some observations.
 
This kinda sums it up..
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Easy to say but just think of a kid in school telling the teacher " We don't have a computer at home". Costs to connect ,cost for every kid to have a phone. Costs for usage . We shoul;d be more like Matt and Joe on Dual Survival. Tell the kids to play outside.Go find some edible plants.
 
Just think, recessions come around roughly on a 7 year cycle, so we're due now.

Our stock market has been artificially driven up by the low rates. Just talking about rates makes the market dip painfully, sooner or later they're going to actually RAISE them - and the market's going to nose-dive, again. I get that the "talking about it" is to lower the market and relieve some of the "pressure build up" - but it's still going to hurt when it happens.

That could be a big part of the next recession.

So what I wonder - have we recovered enough from the last one yet to have another one? Past recessions usually follow an economy that's booming that grew too fast. This time it's going to follow an economy that we have bend and twist statistics just to call recovered. I worry that it's not a good starting point to fall down from.
 
John: I have a son in retail. Sales are down. What I see are a lot of people paying down debt instead of spend any extra money they are seeing because of reduced fuel cost.

There are a lot of people who have had their hours cut because of the health insurance issues. And then look at the layoffs at CaseIH and JD. And they are not the only places running fewer lines with a reduced workforce. So yea it's still tuff out there for a lot of people (I'm not including those on SS or SSDI, they were tight on money before this). One of my nieces was forced to switch jobs because her hours got cut and she lost her health insurance and has a baby daughter. In this area she got lucky and was able to find a full time job but then she has a 2 year degree.

I don't blame the companies. They have to make money to stay in business. If they have to raise pay then they have to raise prices. That can A: make their products unaffordable causing them to go under and B: spark another recession or deepen this one.

The government is a very poor job creator. During the depression yea they created some jobs but very few. Current historians are thinking that during part of the 30's that unemployment ran as high as 80%. We didn't really start to recover until we started selling war materials to England. That sent factory orders up making companies call workers back. Want to end a recession? Get people to spend money! That's why every administration claims every new job a victory. They want to get the people confident that things are getting better. That confidence causes them to spend more. Roosevelt and Regan were very good at giving the people confidence and hope.

Area to area things are different. People in the Fargo area can find jobs. A lot of them are low wage. But some people have done nothing to make themselves more valuable or squandered education money on worthless programs. Basically IMO, they made poor choices that put them where they are. HS diploma is worth minimum wage. Sorry but that's they way it is and always has been. Raise minimum wage and prices go up to cover the cost of those wages. Then inflation quickly kills any buying power of the new wage.

I really like the people that claim that a CEO gets paid too much but are OK with their favorite quarterback making the same money for playing a game. A couple of years ago if the CEO of Wal Mart had worked for free and given the entire value of his annual pay to the works it would have amounted to less than 9 dollars for each worker for the entire year.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 14:41:36 03/27/15) Stock market is falling do to economy news.
You can read blogs that say we are poised to pull our self out of this slump.
People talk about how tight their personal budget is and they are having trouble paying bills.
Even posters on this site talk about how bad times are in their area due to job loss.
Everywhere you look you can see people talking about how bad our economy is in the U.S.


Then on the other hand..........
I picked up 4 tires for a pickup yesterday. The bill was COD so I got to see the cost. $2800 for four 20 inch pickup mud tires. And they were going from a distribution site to a tire dealer so this is the wholesale price. These tires must retail for well over $1000 each.
I delivered to a pool and patio center a few weeks ago. They were putting together a patio set. I commented how nice the set looked. Guy said they should. Chairs are $800 to $1200 each and table is $2000.
Stop 10 people on the street. What do you think are the odds of finding 1 person without a cell phone.
Look at all the luxury items in new cars/pickups that are now standard equipment because everyone expects those items in cars anyway.
Watch how people drive. They go from the interstate entrance ramp to the left lane in 100 feet. And then have nerve to complain about how much gasoline cost and how bad MPG they get.
I do not really see how anyone reading this can complain about how tight money is for them when they must be able to afford the un-necessary cost of a computer and internet service.

So is it really our economy is bad and people are really struggling to pay their bills.
Or is it more we are struggling to pay for everything we expect and want in our life. Hence trying to live on a $100,000 lifestyle while working a $50,000 job.
And I would guess that the employers fault because he does not pay you $100,000 to cover your lifestyle.

We really need a reality check in this country.
Take everyone that complains about how rough their poor life is and plop them on the great plains in a sod house during the dirty 30's. Then see how rough they think their life is today.

I agree with a lot of what you said. I've said that for a long time that a lot of our hard ships are brought on by ourselves. I used to drive new cars and trucks...now I drive old stuff and fix it when needed... I do not have internet service at home..I use the internet at work or use my cell phone,which is the only phone I have. I try to eat out as little as possible. When I need tires for a vehicle, I go to a junkyard and look. People wreck cars everyday with new tires on them. Batteries? I buy the blem batteries for most everything I own. $35.00 a piece and guaranteed for a year. I stock up on oil when it is on sale. I have started rasing more and more food and canning and freezing more stuff. I try to do what I can to cut costs anymore...it has helped me out tremendously. You can call me cheap if you want but I do what I have to do to get by. How well the economy is doing varies not only by the state but also by the county. I have no doubt that some people on a fixed income have a hard time...especially elders or disabled people that can not work.
 
Your observations point out a scenario within people or a population that may not take the time to step back, take a look around and be thankful for what they have. Take everything else away, just leave housing and a means to earn a living. If a United States citizen can't recognize at this point, with just a job and housing, that they have more to be thankful for, than much of the population in many other countries, or for just being a human being in reasonably good health, that person ought to "inspect their expect". Our military people are volunteers today, which reinforce the foundation of the freedom that allows our existence. Why is it that a free society such as ours, eventually becomes soft, selfish, ungrateful, takes more than they give, if they give at all, leading to the brink of or with a destiny of collapse on the horizon? We as a whole are all better than that, some may just need a general Patton to light a fire under their behinds, so be it, we are far better than that no matter what it takes. Luxury and the increase of it, when it should be back to the basics across the board, sustaining our great nation, or polishing away the tarnish that covers the gleaming light of freedom which our flag truly represents.

Forget the plains, they need to go somewhere much worse to "cleanse the doors of perception" say a third world country where you are day to day, hour to hour or by the minute in regards to safety, being fed, all the while knowing that the cockroach or rat you hunted all day, that might be your only meal for indefinite period, that or the dirt under your feet, someone else wants it and would fight to the death to take everything you have to get it. You think then, the rationalization or epiphany would occur in their head? You were born in the U.S. or you immigrated here, became a citizen, you have won the lottery, and when you look at the American Flag the hairs stand up on your body, because you know what it represents. If that is not the case, then serve your country, then see if that happens.

Every single one of us could be gone tomorrow, we see it all the time, this will never end, its life. All the material things, all your alleged problems, they mean nothing at that point, it does not matter and its value is 0. I've seen the flashy types who live so far beyond their means, they are hollow inside, burdened with debt for some fancy this or that material item, lifestyle or what is their perceived reality. I've seen in my life, those who have mismanaged their affairs, squandering resources that should have otherwise been protected and used wisely. I've seen those who wait patiently like a vulture to have a chance at someone else's worldly possessions for monetary gain or who have dishonorably changed things in their favor so they are the first to get the lions share of the carcass. People are fools by nature, its those that recognize this and take corrective action to preserve what they have, live honorably, help others more than themselves and make sound decisions that provide a stable life, not one of flash and glitter. Some of the things people do in our society is far beyond my comprehension. I will never come to terms with some of the things that people do. Those that I am referring to just continue on in ignorance or plainly just don't know any better at all. Many of those reside in our prisons, or still walk amongst us destined to return.

I have seen people fight to the bitter end in a divorce or similar situation, exhibiting the worst behavior a human being can, over what, something that at the end of the day, the end of our lives that is absolutely meaningless, these people are thankful for nothing, they have lost sight of reality permanently. Yet they want to be as mean and miserable to each other, squander all their resources, ruin the other without prejudice, having no conscience to do so, all the while they are in the wrong themselves but found or was afforded the means to exploit the system. Either or both could take the high road, settle the matter and live to honor their agreement. Today, for the most part, a persons word has the same value as monopoly money.

In my life, I have been to places I did not want to be, where my existence could be snuffed out if you made a mistake. I have faced and lived through homelessness (still went to work everyday until I could provide a place to live) been sick to the point of being scared beyond belief without a care from anyone because you are far away from home, have no one to help or lean on. I have been without food for days because my job did not pay enough to provide anything else beyond the bills that must be paid. I have walked to work, taken the bus, and even made use of the time for exercise by running to work, until such time I could afford a vehicle again, as the previous one old, worn out or too costly to repair and in those days, old vehicles available were simple to work on. I went to work no matter what, walk, hitchhike, take the bus, catch a ride and even just took home without permission, the company truck because it was too late, the gates were locked, the owner never said anything because they knew given the pay, that's what you get. Same owner I delivered all their party supplies for the holidays, cases upon cases of this and that, box truck half full of all kinds of liquor, food, supplies, to a home worth millions with a pair of top of the line brand new mercedes automobiles in the driveway. I can recall having to go to work to this same job with a severe injury, a deep puncture wound that could have bled me out, but if I did not, I don't eat, may not have a place to live and the result could be about the same. Instinct tells you to push on, deal with things as they arrive, not a moment sooner.

All of that inspired me to do better, go back to school, achieve success, earning a college education from a fine university, opening the door for a good career. 4-5 years prior I was on the street for 4 months, working mostly crap jobs lived in my truck, used a public bathroom for hygiene. One was in retail electronic sales, residential and or high end audio and video equipment. My co workers were great people, several of them having learned of my situation, invited me to their homes to stay, I'd rotate so as not to impose, but was welcome for as long as it took, found that $90/week room, 8 people, 2 bathrooms, was not much but it was heaven compared to the street! Mind you that same job provided me with the single largest take home paycheck to this date that I have ever earned. It took 105 hours of my time to earn $1700 and change after taxes, the gross was over 2k. I was as exhausted as I could be, but that helped me improve my situation immensely and I earned it, all of it. Only because it was the holiday season, the rest of the year you starved while the tumbleweed rolled around in the store so to speak. Just kept checking the ads in the paper, got hired as a D8k operator, a trade I did for about 5 years in total, skills I was glad to learn and master. I was able to get an entry level job as an assistant construction superintendent on a pipe job, went to college at night, earned my diploma with just under a 4.0 GPA. I eventually made it to senior level project management working on projects exceeding $200M. That was a far cry from where I started. No one handed any of that to me, it was earned with hard work and dedication. Years later, leading up to the current time, I am literally starting over, after the last company I worked for dissolved, it was time for a break for me, did that, was self employed for much of the time and tried to find work in that field again with a company, the economy tanked, the time elapsed and I'm on the outside looking in, again LOL ! This time at least I have provided a means to live, a meager one at that, I do not complain because there is nothing worth complaining about, period. Sure it ticks me off at times, take a deep breathe, look around, take a walk, you soon realize what you have and you must be thankful. Often times I'll just go help a neighbor, always a tree that has fallen, a lawnmower that's broke down or a lawn, leaves or snowfall that needs to be dealt with. Standing there and complaining.... there is a better use of my time. Go help someone, in some way or shape, you'll feel much better later and you have done something of value that is of benefit.

2 days ago, I spent a good part of the day at the V.A., I hear all this crap on the news or what have you, complaining about same. Those people working there are to be commended, they are truly honorable people helping veterans through their times of need. From the time you arrive until the time you leave. They had a suggestion box, anyone who complains ought to have their head examined, only thing I could say is "don't change a darned thing" A very positive experience.

Yesterday and its been a long while and I don't know when it will change, but I had a great interview with a national company in regards to a project director position, for job at a manufacturing facility they have a long term contract with. The project is growing, with a new $30m production line going in and it created several positions to keep up with it. I was shortlisted and anticipate the formal interview. Still means nothing at this point could go either way, did my best, if I don't get it, I'll just keep plugging away, I've been at it for 7 years with no luck so far, ticks me off at times but if it never happens, there is nothing to complain about, in the end, none of it really matters.
 
(quoted from post at 09:43:46 03/27/15)
2 days ago, I spent a good part of the day at the V.A., I hear all this crap on the news or what have you, complaining about same. Those people working there are to be commended, they are truly honorable people helping veterans through their times of need. From the time you arrive until the time you leave. They had a suggestion box, anyone who complains ought to have their head examined, only thing I could say is "don't change a darned thing" A very positive experience.

Billy that depends on where you go. I was told by the Fargo VA 10 years, yes 10 full years ago that I need a new knee (service connected). Then I got "too young, too fat at 6'5" and 250 and any other excuse they could think of. I started going to the St Cloud MN VA this past Sep and will get my new knee next week! Physical therapy in Fargo told me that they would like to see me 2-3 times a week but couldn't get me travel pay for coming that often. PT in St Cloud said we will pay you to come here 2-3 times a week or pay to have me see a local civilian PT. What surprises me the most is that when walking down the hall every VA employee that you pass in St Cloud in the hallway greats you and most of my fellow patients do too. The Fargo VA is kinda glum by comparison. So depending on the facility, yea people can complain.

Rick
 
Are you near west Monroe LA ? I'm thinking those wheels were for the Duck Dynasty folks !

The distance between the upper class and the lower class is getting farther and farther apart with fewer and fewer in the middle.

There are a lot of people in my area of Ohio that have HUGE college debt only to get out of school and have to work retail or fast food as that's all who is hiring.

I could make a good living on my pitiful wage if it wasn't for all the MANDATORY payroll deductions !
Everyone NEEDS to take a long hard look at those and then see if you would be better off if you had the money or all the crooks who are getting it. But today many don't even get a copy of their wage statement to look at. Things are not getting better for the average Joe working stiff out here.
 
The VA set me up with an appointment in Nov 2013. Told me it would be in June 2014. Called them in May to check on it. You have no such appointment are you sure you are in the VA system. Gave them my VA file number,was told they have no record of me. Told me to reapply. Sent in my 214 and other information. This was in May 2014. Still waiting.

Glad you had better luck.
 
what did you do when grain prices were high. i sold $12.00 beans back in 2008 and paid off my land now i get nice check from my renter ever year its makes being retired kind of fun. i never bought much new paint
 
what did you do when grain prices were high. i sold $12.00 beans back in 2008 and paid off my land now i get nice check from my renter ever year its make being retired kind of fun. i never bought much new paint
 
just my 2 cents on this topic , first i work for a company that profits big every year , i got a smack in the face with a 13 cent raise , forced to work 6 days a week up to 70 hrs , then at the end of the year lay us all off & contract are work for the winter to save money , yes ill be back to the sweat shop soon but worked my @ss off all summer made less gross for the year , now all my retirement & anyone around my age or younger is forced into a 401K ( stock market) making rich richer , company cut there match , pay so called mantaince fees also now , pay a penalty to the gov. if i need that money ( which is mine ) every time the market crashes i lose over half wait 5 or more years to get it back . Gas tax , property tax , heck every tax in PA has went up , unemployment pay is cut , even though ive payed it in . price at the grossery store is up on everything the farmer makes less, milking cows here dont even pay the estimated cost per animal by government standards , putting corn in your stove is worth more then feeding the world ( which is staving to death according to gov. ) ill stop there , but people better wake up in this country or 1929 or worse is coming again , im getting by because i never bought more then i could afford unlike most my age , being in debt makes you a slave is what i was taught . think about what happens when everyone like me gets old, cant work, lost all my retirement not by my choice , S.S. will be broke , is my fine government going to take care of me since they robbed me of the ability to do it my self? If so now this country has a new money problem or maybe i wont be worth nothing then, so Obams care will let me die ( in peace i hope ) but i wouldnt count on that either. no offence to anyone but it seem like the old ( over 50 ) dont want nothing that will effect them to change , the 30 & under do ( for the worse) or dont care & everyone my age is stuck paying the bill, robbing peter to pay paul , i speak from exsperance im tired of being peter , and seeing the younger gen. at work or should i say never wanting to work,thinking fast food should pay them $15 hr , my generation is doomed & cant even afford a burger
 

My wife and I were talking about this the other day. We listed all the "things" that are now "necessary" that we didn't have when we got married. TV, internet, satellite TV, multiple vehicles, cell phones and on and on. All these things add up not only for their cost but for the expense of maintaining and insuring. We decided to get rid of some of the extra stuff.
Arkansas is one of the lowest income states and my county is in the bottom 10% of income in Arkansas. I am in the lower bracket in my county so I basically am living in poverty according to someone from NY for example. However my standard of living is pretty good by my standards, we have much more than we really need.
As far as the local economy, we are an agricultural area and the construction of poultry houses and a new processing plant has been a boom for the area. The only ones that aren't working are those that won't work. We never had a large economy so the downturn never affected us much.
 
It's interesting how going through "trial by fire" gives you real perspective and appreciation. How to get to those others we know that don't get it? Who have never been to another country and firsthand witnessed, as you've noted, how great it is to have even a meager existence in the U.S? I sure wouldn't trade my problems for theirs.
 
What ties your observations together is that it seems the value of the U.S. dollar is deteriorating at a brisk pace. We expect currencies to do that over time, the question is at what rate? Our gov is zillions of dollars in dept. It's a lot easier to pay back that dept if you run your printing press 24 hrs a day.

Good points on what has become "necessary" in today's world that didn't even exist 20 years ago. Technology didn't just fill a need, they _created_ that need. Doesn't get any better than that for an entrepreneur!
 
LAA- I agree with you. That is why I also feel that Social Security and Medicare should be abolished too. That money, I have paid in all my life, was used to pay for my parents and grandparents retirement. There is nothing left...it's all borrowed money.
 
John in la.- yup, those poor people in the plains living in sod houses..."ranchers subsidized by US taxpayers, and you know who are the biggest welfare ranchers of all, grazing livestock on the hundreds of millions of acres of public grass and forest land, all assisted by public subsidies paid for by US taxpayers?"

Some of America’s biggest welfare ranchers:

David and Charles Koch (Koch Industries)

The brothers hold a half-dozen grazing permits on public land in Montana to go with its 300,000-acre Matador Ranch there. The brothers are tied for fourth place on Forbes 2014 400 Richest People in America list (net worth: $ 42 billion each). The Koch family ($ 89 billion) is #2 on Forbes Richest Families list; Koch Industries is #2 on Forbes America’s Largest Private Companies list, ($ 115 billion in sales).

J.R. Simplot Corp.

The largest U.S. public lands ranching entity (with an estimated 2 to 3 million acres of allotments in CA, ID, NV, OR and UT) is #63 on Forbes 2014 list of America’s Largest Private Companies ($ 5.8 billion in sales). In 2014, the family was #29 on Forbes list of America’s Richest Families (net worth: $ 8 billion).

Bruce McCaw (McCaw Cellular)

McCaw was #382 on Forbes 400 list of America’s Richest People in 2005 (net worth: $ 925 million). Through his 9 sprawling ranches, he controls a significant number of public grazing leases in ID and possibly NV. One of them (Camas Creek ranch) includes 272,000 acres of Federal grazing allotments in Idaho’s Camas Prairie. Grazing permitted to his other ranches could easily double or triple that to a million acres or more.

Barrick Gold

The Canadian mining company is one of the two largest public lands ranchers in NV, ranking 771st on Forbes Global 2000 list of the World’s Biggest Public Companies in 2014, (sales: $ 12.56 billion). Like many other large public lands ranchers, Barrick buys ranches to secure water rights.

Southern Nevada Water Authority (SNWA)

The supplier of drinking water to Las Vegas is a large NV public lands rancher with an estimated 1 million acres of public grazing allotments. Like Barrick Gold, it, buys up private ranches to gain their water rights.

W. Barron Hilton (Hilton Hotels)

The hotel heir dropped off Forbes Billionaires list (ranked #459 in 2011) as well as its list of the 400 Richest Americans (#144 in 2010), with a net worth of $ 2.5 billion. He died in 2013.

Though records are hard to pin down, Hilton’s heirs inherited a ranching operation in the CA-NV border area, which has been known to have vast public lands grazing allotments permitted to it.

Mary Hewlett-Jaffe (Hewlett-Packard)

Jaffe holds the largest BLM public lands grazing permit in central ID and is among the top 15 public lands ranchers in the state (estimated at under 200,000 acres that are said to be in extremely degraded condition, according to sources).

James Barta (Sav-Rx.com)

Barta is not on any Forbes rich lists, but owns one of the largest cattle ranching operations in the U.S., according to his attorneys. Barta holds grazing permits to nearly 900,000 acres of public grazing allotments in connection with two properties: White Horse Ranch (in OR) and Soldier Meadows (in NV). Barta may have additional NV grazing leases through two other ranches in NV, according to Jon Marvel, founder of Western Watersheds Project.

T. Wright Dickinson

Though not on any Forbes list, the Dickinson family is a large public lands rancher, with grazing permits estimated at more than a half million acres of CO, UT and WY public lands under its LLC, Vermillion Ranches. Dickinson is a former County commissioner and proponent of county efforts to gain control of federal lands, according to the Denver Post.

Stan Kroenke (Kroenke Group) & Ann Walton Kroenke (Walmart)

With just two of his ranches (in MT and WY) totaling 664,000 acres (not including public grazing allotments), Kroenke is one of the ten top land owners in the U.S. In 2014, he ranked #89 on Forbes list of the 400 Richest Americans, #247 on its Billionaires list, and #5 on its list of Richest American Sports Team Owners (net worth: $ 5.8 billion). His wife, Ann Walton Kroenke (net worth: $ 5.6 billion), was #261 on Forbes Billionaires list and #11 on its list of America’s Richest Women.

Family of Robert Earl Holding (Sinclair Oil and hotels)

Forbes ranks the family #87 on its 2014 list of America’s Richest Families (net worth: $ 2.7 billion). With 400,000 acres of land, the family is the 19th largest private land owner in the US, according to the 2014 Land Report 100. This includes land that Forbes reported “may be the largest ranching operation in the Rocky Mountains.” Public grazing leases are associated with some of the family’s WY and possibly MT holdings, according to Jon Marvel, founder of Western Watersheds.

Ted Turner

He’s the second largest U.S. land owner (2 million acres in 6 states), is estimated to hold grazing leases in MT and NM (estimated at as much as 300,000 acres), and owns the world’s largest bison herd. Forbes ranked him #296 on its 2014 list of the 400 Richest Americans and #818 on its global Billionaires list (net worth: $ 2.2 billion).

Oh! but, wait a minute! You want to complain about 'some' people having a computer or internet access, cell phone, etc.

What about the millionaires or billionaires receiving taxpayer money (you and me) to subsidize the income?

Heck, I even read an article about a subdivision in the Midwest that sold plots of 10 acres to build a house. The previous owner had all the acreage classified as farm land. If you bought a 10 acre plot, you could exempt 1 acre for the house and claim the other 9 acres as crop and get a subsidy from the taxpayers for the crops you could have grown but decided to make a lawn.

As I stated a month or two ago, my local FSA called me wanting to know why I had not claimed my land for 'crop subsidy'. I told them I was not growing any corn and had not in a few years. They said that is OK,, you can still claim and get money. I declined the offer.
 
I made $64,400 at my job last year, & Put everything I made farming back into farming. I have a cell phone that costs $37.45 (tax included) per month. I don't have cable on my television, do have high speed cable internet. My cell phone is my home phone. It rarely leaves the house. Last time was in September, went to Florida. Internet access on the cell; but again have not used since Florida trip. Don't have a laptop, or mobile computer. Don't have Direct deposit, or bank online. 1 vehicle 2005 Chev 3500 paid off since 2009. Have been thinking about an additional vehicle, wont be new. $9500 savings, & $2100 checking as of today. I consider myself Semi Frugal, & fortunate.

MY CO-WORKERS... Have a starkly different opinion. I have been called a mizer, tightwad, cheap, selfish, & a whole list of other things. Now I will discuss items in which blows their theories away. Such as the $2500 Computer I am typing on right now. The $2800 55" television in am watching the news on as well. I save in certain areas to spend more money in other areas that the average person wouldn't spend. I work next to a man that told me last week his phone bill for 5 phones is just over $300. told Him burning up a blanket making smoke signals would be a heck of a lot cheaper!!! I rarely mention the computer, or TV, it doesn't matter to me what they think. Maybe word will spread, & I will be less likely to get robbed!

I think its the individual situation coupled with the epidemic of Child Support. If I had $150/week taken for that; things would be far different.
 
OK my 2 cents, I work hard make a living, just got my taxes done, IRS gets 41% of my taxable income (OK I know your thinking this guy makes some money) if you take state income tax, property tax, school tax out of what is left over I have about 10K disposable income which is less then the IRS gets.
Then I read in the The Washington Post how all these big corporations get billions in government subsidies, Boeing, Intel, Ford, GM ect. ect. Our tax money and by the way some of these companies show the highest profits. I think I will take my 10K that is left over and buy a new truck or a company jet LOL.
Oh and don't forget the 30 billion we gave to Israel and who knows how much to what other countries.
I'm proud to be an American and have no desire to live anywhere else I think our system needs a little adjusting to take better care of our own people.
 
>Stock market is falling do [sic] to economy news.

Huh? The Dow and S&P are about three percent off of their all-time highs. And they both peaked within the past month. And that "bad" economic news? That was the Fed hinting it will raise interest rates in the near future due to the IMPROVING economy.

>Even posters on this site talk about how bad times are in their area due to job loss.

Not here in Michigan. Unemployment last month was the lowest it's been in 14 years.

Thousand-dollar tires aren't indicative of anything, other than there are folks willing to buy them. And cell phones are no longer an expensive novelty but rather a necessity of modern-day life. As is an internet connection.

It is true, however, that this country has a serious problem with its savings rate. Historically low interest rates and easy credit are part of the problem, as is the trend of people having "McJobs" rather than long-term employment. Most of our parents had an aversion to credit, and consumer credit was difficult to get up through the mid-eighties. Now the typical scenario is for young adults to run up a bunch of bills before they have a chance to learn how to manage credit.

Farmers who made it through Dust Bowl and Great Depression didn't do it because they were somehow superior to folks today. They survived in their soddies because they had no other options.
 
>What ties your observations together is that it seems the value of the U.S. dollar is deteriorating at a brisk pace.

Really? The Euro is now trading below $1.10, the lowest it's been in over ten years. The dollar isn't doing too bad against the Japanese yen, either. So exactly how do you figure the US dollar is "deteriorating"?
 
(quoted from post at 04:02:27 03/28/15) >What ties your observations together is that it seems the value of the U.S. dollar is deteriorating at a brisk pace.

Really? The Euro is now trading below $1.10, the lowest it's been in over ten years. The dollar isn't doing too bad against the Japanese yen, either. So exactly how do you figure the US dollar is "deteriorating"?

Mark I think people say that because the dollar doesn't buy as much as it did 10 or more years ago. They fail to understand inflation.

Rick
 
$1.10 is not the trough, The euro was $1.05 two weeks ago, I bought 40K worth and it's already up 5%.
 
I"ve been going to the St.Cloud VA since "06-have had the same experience as you...all are very friendly and care-giving. Good luck on the knee operation......while you"re in the area- give me a call. email open- Jim
 
IT seams to my that a lot of people that are to dammed lazy to get out there and get it done just love to knock any and all that do make it.AS to range land it is so poor out west that it takes 10 to 20 acers to run run one cow and her calf
 
Your mention of our parents reminds me that my Mom was able to stay at home and Dad went to work full time and got by fine and were able to save. Now both parents working full time and can barely make it is the norm.
 
(quoted from post at 10:01:53 03/28/15) I"ve been going to the St.Cloud VA since "06-have had the same experience as you...all are very friendly and care-giving. Good luck on the knee operation......while you"re in the area- give me a call. email open- Jim

Jim email sent.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 15:27:56 03/28/15) Your mention of our parents reminds me that my Mom was able to stay at home and Dad went to work full time and got by fine and were able to save. Now both parents working full time and can barely make it is the norm.

Was the same when I grew up. Mom and dad were careful with their money too. One TV that lasted more than 10 years. Washer and dryer were replaced at 17 years. They didn't need to keep up with the Jones's. Today everyone has to have 2 cars, cable or sat TV. An appliance breaks and they replace it. And they have to have it all right now. I learned from my parents. My wife didn't start working until after I retired from the Army and the kids were mostly grown. When everyone was buying new TV's we had an old black and white. While they were paying cable bills we did with rabbit ears. I drove older cars and repaired them myself. I was actually chewed out when I was a platoon SGT by a CSM because he thought I was making the NCO Corps look bad by not driving a new car like my fellow NCO's who were living paycheck to paycheck. That all comes down to personal responsibility. It was more important to me that my kids had new clothing and good meals on the table. Now people want everything under the sun and they have to have it right now. They are making payments on a house, 2 cars, furniture, TV and appliances then buying their clothing on plastic. There it is in a nut shell. By the time I was 5 mom and dad were making a mortgage payment and that was it. Add in utilities and food. Pop was a treat and cookies and candy mom made at home. Everything else they paid cash for. If mom or dad wanted something expensive they saved for it. We don't do that anymore as a whole.

Rick
 
So what is your argument? These folks should not be able to lease land IF they already own land? Or are you saying not to lease the land or it should be against the law to own so much land ? I don,t see what you are saying about these folks except that they have managed well.
 

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