Don't ask me again

There is a property clean up from a house that burned from one of the fires that went through the area a couple years ago. It has come down to the fire dept. having it done, since the owner has not done it. The fire dept. pays for the job, and the bill is added to the owners property tax. It requires removing all the burned material from a small house and a couple burned cars, no part of the house is standing, mostly ashes sheet metal and a few dead pine trees. It is maybe 10-12k max for the job, probably filling four roll off bins full of trash to haul off. This guy has another guy bid 28k, and wants me to bid 24k, so he can put a bid under mine and get the job. Man if this aint price fixing I don't know what is. I didn't want any part of that one. Stan

You ought to report the person, that is collusion and or bid rigging, sooner or later they are caught anyway, usually by the offended party who did not get the award.

Is it even likely the property owner will be able to pay the taxes after all that? I can't even see 10-12 K on something like that. I burned off an old house, rented a bobcat for the day and was done....total cost was less than $200 (not including my labor of course). Even with labor, and had I rented roll off how could anyone justify 10-12K? Much less something like $20K. This sounds like a property owner getting ready to lose his property due to some corrupt individuals to me. the local fd needs to reject the bids, and just hire a local contractor by the hour to clean it up and be done. But any time a government entity gets involved, this is the type thing that happens, everyone wants to make a killing off the back of someone else. Maybe I am missing something.

(quoted from post at 10:24:48 03/06/15) You ought to report the person, that is collusion and or bid rigging, sooner or later they are caught anyway, usually by the offended party who did not get the award.

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I heard there was several layers of contracts followed by sub-contracts for the Katrina cleanup. The big co's bid say $28 a cubic yard and sub it out to someone else for $25. This was done over and over til some guy with a truck was doing it for $10 a yard.

They just act like brokers, how many tiers of subs later, then skim the remainder off the top. I've seen some of this in my career, hate it vehemently, because bad news travels fast. I ended up working and running a division of a company, owned by a person who unbeknownst to me, was prosecuted for kickbacks for window contracts on co-op buildings. Before I took the position, I was on a job that that the owner and his consultant played games with the buyout on windows for a high rise building, to the point I could not get them in time after approved shop drawings. I knew this window outfit, awarded them work before on a larger high rise, had them send a sample down, reviewed the specifications, testing data etc,. met the criteria and I could get them when needed. When the owner found out, he said no way, and months later while doing some research, I knew why. Morgantheau prosecuted him, it was in the Co-op news, and on the net! $2M in kick backs !!!

Worst part of it, he eventually high tailed it to china, and there was paperwork distributed for all employees to sign from the outcome of this about ethics, this and that, and eventually recording us, on the phone, giving authorization to video us etc. I'd have never accepted the position had I known. The office manager was all over me about signing this. I flat out refused, told her in front of everyone, NEVER going to happen, you can fire me and I'll leave right now, otherwise I have 65 + ironworkers to keep track off, millions in subcontracts to manage, (like $10M at the time) cranes to supervise and about another zillion things to do, you hired me based on reputation, I don't steal, lie or any of that, if my word is not good enough for y'all, stuff it, all of it, you know where. The division was closed down within 2 years or so, no traces of but one person from that company today, unreal.... needless to say, I hate any and all of those dishonest kinds of dealings with a passion!

many state laws mandate competitive bidding with mandated state wage rates and fringe benefits---which makes the bidding process very high

I just pulled that figure of 10 to 12k out of my head a big guess. Clean up is not my business so I had no idea. I was just being used a middle man, which I didn't like. Stan

Seeing some similar in private industry. Recently I was talking to someone at work that works with vendors to obtain quotes on contract type work, and he said he is mandated by the company purchasing people to stick with existing vendors who have a specific level of liability insurance (very high). He said he ends up paying a vendor to do something (paint a wall in this example) and the vendor ends up hiring a sub contractor for pennies on the dollar, but the vendor can name his price as he knows he can get it. And we wonder why things are out of hand, and we all suffer for it in the end. Most likely in the original post the land owner will not be able to pay his tax bill or it will be more than the land is worth, which will likely force a sale of the property over something that should take a day and a few hundred dollars to clean up, but someone will end up making 20K for a couple days work.

in my county if a tax bill becomes delinquent the county takes ownership of the property.Many times there are environmental issues with the property such as fuel spills,asbestos,etc. One property was an old Laundry facility that was loaded with asbestos--I think the cost was over $60,000 just for the asbestos removal--then the large boilers and building and huge chimney had to be removed

A lot of property owners lose their property because of this, but the politicians don't care. (And the people who run a town or county, although being business men, are still politicians). Most incorporated towns and cities have laws concerning abandoned houses and overgrown property, if the owner doesn't keep it clean, they do it for you and send you the bill. As you indicated,many of these landowners can not afford to pay for this, or they would have already had it done. In this day of so many "charity" organizations, one would think that someone would step in to help, but it doesn't work that way.
Just think of all those who benefit by doing it the way the municipalities do it. First you have someone to clean off the property. (Of course this "someone" has connections at city hall.) This creates several jobs. Then it helps keep the girls in the office at city hall busy, because they have to send out the notices, and bills. Then if the poor property owner can't pay, the Sheriff has to serve notice to them, either by mail or personally. After that, the property is foreclosed upon and advertised for bid at the courthouse. (More paperwork for the girls.) Generally the property is bid off by a developer, (likely a friend of the Sheriff) and either a new dwelling or business complex is built at a substantial profit. Ain't it great how modern society works?

Here is a burnt house we bid on this week. Lots of things to take into account. This was 50 miles away,20 miles from closest landfill, and the price doubles for disposing burnt debris($50/tn). Has block walls and a basement to come out and refill. Bid about 14k.
Ron

Environmental liability can be a bear. One company I worked for had a problem they had to manage. The plant used to be on a piece of property that was kind of an "L" shape and either side of the "L" came out on different streets. The corner lot (that we surrounded) used to be a gas station. As times changed and a new highway was built 100 yards north of the old road the gas station ended up folding. Eventually the county/village ended getting stuck with the land. On one side of the lot we built an employee parking lot. As a courtesy we mowed the vacant lot, but we had to be careful if we built or stored anything on that property the village would deed it to us. We were very careful not to let our fence or even a cement slab for parking motorcycles enroach the lot line. Boss figured if we got stuck with the property it'd cost us 3-5 million dollars to clean up the gas station contamination.