Carrying knives and/or guns---- WARNING LONG

NCWayne

Well-known Member
I just read Bryce's post below about carrying a sheath knife while going about his daily business.

As someone who open carries a pistol everywhere I legally can, I have to admit it was an interesting thread. Two things I noticed throughout the thread were that, one the legality of it was barely touched on, and two the knife was constantly thought of as more of a weapon than a tool.

These two things concern me as the thought process behind both ideas is disturbing. I say that because that way of thinking is part of what has allowed so many of our rights to be slowly eroded away.

On the knife front, when I am working I have carried a Buck 112, in a belt sheath, for nearly 18 years. I also have a larger 110, that I could carry, but it's just too big to use for the things I use it for. Before that, growing up, I carried a three bladed, Old Timer, pocket knife, that was given to me by my Grandparents when I was around 10 years old. I just turned 47 and I still carry it when I dress up to go out.

To me a knife has never been anything but a tool, so I rarely go anywhere without one on me somewhere. Yes, any knife can be used as a weapon, just as a ball bat, a ring of keys, or nearly any other object can given a little thought, but until it's actually NEEDED as a weapon, it's still nothing more than a tool. Personally I have NEVER really 'thought' of my knife as a weapon, to me it's a multi-use tool, nothing more.

Typically the people who look at a knife as a weapon are going to be either those trained to use one as such((( and are in a situation where it probably will be used as one))), or those that simply don't like knives and view anything they don't like as somehow 'evil' and have a need to demonize it as a weapon to justify their feelings.

In any case a knife, regardless of how big it is, or how it's carried, is nothing to freak out over.....unless it's being pulled on them. Anyone who does freak out over a knife in a sheath, regardless of size, in my opinion, has some unresolved fear issues, or something,and could avail themselves of some counseling.....

My second concern ties in with the first in that IF carrying a knife, of whatever style, is legal, then WHY NOT carry it. The way I look at the situation is the same way I look at open carrying my pistol. We have so many rights being literally taken away from us every day, and by not utilizing a right that hasn't been taken away, you are in effect freely giving up that right without a fight. So, when someone decides to actually take it, you have absolutely nothing to lose, nor to fuss about.

The funny thing is that many of the rights that are being taken are done so because too many people's main view on things like knives and guns comes from the criminals they see on TV, as well as the too frequent IDIOT who makes the news by being stupid...... NOT from the use of either tool by responsible, honest, hard working folks.

If those same honest, hard working folks do not exercise their rights, and give the masses a positive role model to base their thoughts and feelings on, then the criminals and idiots win. By win, I mean that the tools/objects are only seen in a bad light, and that's the first step in the right to that tool to be taken away at some future time.

For anyone that thinks otherwise, just look at what has happened to our 2A in the past few years due to several mass shootings by deranged criminals. Too, look at what happened to airplanes, and the ability to carry something as simple as a pocket knife, nail clippers, etc, on board after 9/11. I could name other examples, but these are two prominent ones where the use of a tool by a criminal put an 'evil' façade onto objects that are nothing but objects, until used by human hands.

I know that was a bit long, but hopefully I have made my point on someone's ability to legally carry a tool, regardless of what it is, without being demonized simply because it's something that some other person doesn't like, wouldn't do themselves, or whatever.

As far as those that commented on staying out of areas where you might need a weapon, I'll say this. "That area" can be anywhere, and it can happen at any time, and you never know who might create the need for you to have a tool you can use as a weapon.

"That area", "that time", and "that person", came about for me March of last year. I don't know if any of ya'll remember me talking about the 20 something kid who I had taken under my wing and was helping out....heck, all but considered a son at one point. If you don't, long story short, two years into the friendship he got extremely self centered, and arrogant, and wound up doing me, my family, and several of my friends wrong.

Part of helping him had been letting him use my trailer. When things got BAD, I went to get my trailer back. We had words, and that was it between the two of us, and we parted. However when I began talking to his Mom and Stepdad, who he was also doing wrong, and airing his dirty laundry, he got upset, and went for a gun. Thankfully I had somewhat foreseen the possibility of that happening...didn't think it would, hoped it wouldn't....but it did.....so I had a pistol lying in my truck. The fact that I came out with mine, and told him that what he was doing WAS NOT a good idea, and that I WOULD drop him where he stood (((and he knew I could do it))) is the only thing that kept the situation from going any further than it did.... He still went around bragging to others that he had run me off with his gun, which is the very attitude that cause him to pull on me in the first place.

From that point on, I am rarely out of reach of my pistol. If I can carry open, I do, if concealed is more convenient, or appropriate, then I have a CC permit also. The way I see it, if someone who I considered to be a friend can pull a gun on me, in his Mom's front yard, over something as simple as me talking to his parents, then I hate to see what happens when a 'true criminal' decides to do something.

Another thing I have to think about is that I work alone a lot. Just like the other night I went out on an after hours, welding repair, to insure a customer had their machine to use the next morning. Here I am the only one on a construction site in Charlotte, and am there from around 6PM until nearly 11PM. Thing is when I am alone like that, and have my service truck with me, I am easily sitting on nearly $200,000 worth of truck and tools. Most places that are moving around that amount of money, or goods, are going to have an armed guard......It stands to reason when I am the only thing between a criminal and $200,000, it just might be a good idea to be able to do more to protect myself, and my livelihood, than just being able to say "stop thief"....

Like I said before, when the public has nothing but bad examples to base their thoughts and opinions on, our rights tend to get revoked. Give them some positive role models to base their opinions on and, who knows, maybe they'll begin to see the 'tools' as what they are, and not just 'evil', weapons that need to be gotten rid of.

In conclusion, I've been open carrying for right at a year so far. In my experience it's been a really good thing. You'd be surprised how many people simply don't pay attention and never even realize your carrying, unless its something 'flashy and in your face'. I doubt that 8 out of 10 would even notice a knife in a belt sheath....unless they were really looking for one..... For those that do notice my pistol, I've gotten to talk to some who were simply gun lovers, as well as those that had made assumptions about the 'evil' weapons because that's all they had ever been shown and/or told to believe. As a responsible, honest, hard working gun owner, I saw it as a privilege to have a chance to set the record straight when the questions start. It's amazing how little the average person knows when it comes to guns in general, much less gun laws, etc, etc. I've even got to educate two young guys up here from Peru(customers oldest son and nephew) and allow them to shoot both a rife and a pistol for the first time. Now that was a fun day.

Like I said, regardless of what your carrying, if it's legal to carry, and you do so in a responsible manner, there's no reason anyone should have a problem with it....but if you don't, your doing nothing but playing into the hands of those that don't want you to have that right, and freely giving it up without even a whimper.....
 
I agree and strongly support our second amendment rights. A recent poll found 63% IIRC of those polled feel safer in their own home with a firearm.
 
You're right, it was long. I read most of it.

I carry two pocket knives just about everywhere. No one knows they're there. Is his big ol' ego knife a more effective tool than my knives? He's making a statement. How that statement gets interpreted is out of his hands.

Last summer a guy carried an AR into a farmer's market here in Wisconsin. He told people he was making a point. What was his point? That he could be more effective at bargaining for a peck of tomatoes with a gun slung across his back? Carrying something like that into a place like that is stupid. It puts all involved on edge, including the responding police officers. Had he come on my farm with that piece, he would have been told to leave or disarm. How would he have responded to that order?

If you want to make a statement, fine. Just be aware that you have NO IDEA on how people you do not know will respond.
 
Yep it was long! I live in SW WI and it seems pretty calm here as for crime, so I don't think I have much to worry about. Using my head is the best weapon, I have never been in a fight, whether it be fist gun or knife. I don't really know where to stand on it all, yes the right to bare arms and all, but in public? Mix the right to bare arms in with the right to be all doped up, I don't know, I think this world needs a good kick in the britches!
 
Yep that was long but I mostly agree. Just about anything can be a weapon. I've carried a knife since I was 7 or 8 years old. I never carried a fixed blade because of the bulk but I've had a folding knife in a pouch on my belt for 30 years.
We live in an age now where there are too many that are afraid of their own shadow and it's being promoted by the government. Politicians want people to think that the government is their protector when, in most cases, the opposite is true.
 
(quoted from post at 08:09:27 03/05/15) You're right, it was long. I read most of it.

I carry two pocket knives just about everywhere. No one knows they're there. Is his big ol' ego knife a more effective tool than my knives? He's making a statement. How that statement gets interpreted is out of his hands.

Last summer a guy carried an AR into a farmer's market here in Wisconsin. He told people he was making a point. What was his point? That he could be more effective at bargaining for a peck of tomatoes with a gun slung across his back? Carrying something like that into a place like that is stupid. It puts all involved on edge, including the responding police officers. Had he come on my farm with that piece, he would have been told to leave or disarm. How would he have responded to that order?

If you want to make a statement, fine. Just be aware that you have NO IDEA on how people you do not know will respond.

It's political speech, open carry is. That is the "speech" that's protected under the 1st Amend. Yeah, a guy carrying an AR will make a lot of people uncomfortable. Well, I get real uncomfortable when 2 dudes start groping each other in front of me or when some idiot is drunk around me or some fool covered tats with earlobe stretchers waits on my table. No one gives 2 hoots about my level of uncomfortable. The point is that the guy didn't go and start shooting people. Criminals do that, and they use more than just guns. People need to stand up for their rights.

It's odd that people get all nervous around a gun but use or are around other equally deadly weapons every day and think nothing of it. I don't care for the jerks that try to scare people by displaying guns or knives of nasty pitbulls or whatever, but my little 38 stuck in my pocket isn't hurting or scaring a thing. It's my right to protect my life, loved ones and property, Those who would give up that right have a screw loose.

As for the subject of the other post and his knife, he started off concerned about cougars, bears and moose. Now he's morphed into toruble with people picking on him and he's making more questionable claims, again, so I don't much care what he does.
 
(quoted from post at 05:35:41 03/05/15)
It's political speech, open carry is. That is the "speech" that's protected under the 1st Amend. Yeah, a guy carrying an AR will make a lot of people uncomfortable. Well, I get real uncomfortable when 2 dudes start groping each other in front of me or when some idiot is drunk around me or some fool covered tats with earlobe stretchers waits on my table. No one gives 2 hoots about my level of uncomfortable. The point is that the guy didn't go and start shooting people. Criminals do that, and they use more than just guns. People need to stand up for their rights.

It's odd that people get all nervous around a gun but use or are around other equally deadly weapons every day and think nothing of it. I don't care for the jerks that try to scare people by displaying guns or knives of nasty pitbulls or whatever, but my little 38 stuck in my pocket isn't hurting or scaring a thing. It's my right to protect my life, loved ones and property, Those who would give up that right have a screw loose.

The two dudes groping each other is inappropriate (a guy and a girl groping in public is, too), but they aren't one chambered round away from shooting you dead. An AR's primary purpose is to kill people. If you carry one openly into a public venue, you're making a statement.

Put yourself in the shoes of the tomato vender at that farmer's market. A person you don't know from Adam is in front of you with a slung AR. Are you completely cool with the situation, or are you considering what he might do next? How about if he had a grenade hanging from his belt? Weapons built to kill people make people uncomfortable. Funny how that works, huh?

You want to go around armed? Fine. Do so in a stealthy manner. Get a concealed carry and get as small a pistol as possible to remain inconspicuous. The best way to stay safe is to stay quiet and ready.

A fixed 9" knife is a statement. An open carried gun is a statement. You want to make a statement, go ahead. Just be aware that your statement means many different things to many different people.
 
Too much for me to read but you couldn't help referring to the knife as a weapon in Bryce's thread because he was wanting to carry a knife because he couldn't carry a gun.
 
In Texas knives are legal to carry as long as they are not of certain types, like switchblades, and are 3" or less blade length. I have carried one all my life and will continue to do so.

On packing, with a license, I really don't go where one might need one and to me it's a liability that is a problem for the one carrying. Lots of places don't want you packing inside their building so you have to do something with it and not forget. However that's a personal choice and I have my share of guns.

Mark
 
Bret I agree that Bryce carrying a LONG knife in public serves little purpose other than his wanting to "SHOW OFF" or something.

I have a CC permit. I usually carry. Most people never know I carry. That is the better way in my opinion.

OPEN carry just causes too many issues and really does not do what I want carrying to do. I want to be able to protect myself. Open carry actually may endanger me more as people act differently when they see a weapon.

IF you have an weapon out in sight then the situation may go south much faster than if you don't.

A 16 year old KID does not have any reason to be carrying a long knife out in public. I have no problem with him owning one and even carrying it around his farm or when he is out hunting but not just out traveling around in public. It becomes "showing off" to me at that point.

Also very few people have the skill to fight off much more than a dog with a knife. Maybe he is TRAINED to fight with a knife but I really doubt it.

Here is one for you guys to think about. If a 16 year old guy shows up on your door step carrying the knife Bryce pictured, would you let him take YOUR daughter out on a date?????

I sure as heck would not. Even if they were going hunting. It just shows me he needs to grow up some more.
 
When I used to serve civil warrants I use to do it in an old Ranger pickup as the last thing someone expects is to be served by a guy in a old beat up pick up and work clothes but I always 'happened' to have a couple tire irons and a piece of 1 inch pipe about 30" long lying in the bed just behind the cab.Also had some heavier artillery in the truck but didn't carry it.Fortunately I never had to use any of it.Also I was never confrontational if they asked what it was about I'd just say I have no idea I just get paid to deliver the piece of paper.
 
Wayne it is too late . People are brainwashed by the media. Every time there is a story involving guns they show a big revolver on the screen designed to scare people. There is nobody wearing any hip holsters in my state as it is illegal so I don't have to think much about it.I have about a hundred knives.
 
An AR or AK for that matter does not have a primary
purpose of killing people. ALL firearms are lethal
and should be handled accordingly. Open carry lets
untrustworthy people know where are a firearm is
available.
"The best way to stay safe is to stay quiet and
ready ". There's some of the best advice given on this forum.
 
I couldn't agree more with you!

EVERY time a gun is brought up in the news, it is a "bad" thing. Someone was shot and they car was stolen, two guys robbed the McDonalds on Trent with a AK, ALWAYS it is crime related!

Here is a story that my neighbor told me about a bank in a town about an 1 South of me. STILL in Idaho, but the population has to be around 20-25000 people. He was down there the day it happened. Some guy with a mask on walked into a large bank and pulled out a 22Mag revolver on the teller. He was shot and killed immediately on the scene. Good right? But the question then, was WHO to blame for it! The police report stated that 12 shots were fired, by 8 individuals, and ALL 12 of those shots were possibly fatal!

Why don't we hear more stories like that??? I gaurentee you that "weapons" are used for good JUST as often (if not more so) than they are used for bad!

Another thing noted here is the possibility of a robbery. My neighbor sent a guy to a hospital when he tried to steal all of the binders and wrappers and chains off of his log truck. He CHASED HIM across the parking lot with a 4 foot cheater bar, caught him, and beat the living $%^& out of him with it! Took 3 bystanders to get him away from the guy.... Imagine if he had a gun? I am not saying a head shot was necessary, but what if he could have popped him in the leg or foot, not at all fatal, and it would have put him on the ground REAL fast!

Anyway, as usually one of my "little" questions has snowballed WAY out of hand! I am sorry if I have upset anyone, but it was JUST a question! I didn't ever say I was going to strap that big knife on and get my AR and rob a bank!

You guys might not know it, but I would be surprise if I am in town 1 time a week (maybe now because of Casey) and when I do, I have a routine:

Husky Store (saw parts), Big R, Auto Haus, Food, HOME. Pretty sure that there isn't going to be much gang activity at any of those places, but YOU NEVER KNOW!

Thanks for alllllllll of the comments guys! Bryce
 
I know a LOT of girls up here that carry large knives with them at all times!

Please remember, I didn't want to carry this knife as "look bad" syndrome, you have ALL brought it up from your point of view, which I didn't even think of! Not a bad thing, and I appreciate the impute, but saying that I need to grow up a little more, that might have been a little too much.... Kind of hurt my feelers to know thats what you think!

I can gaurentee you that I will have CC when I am 21, problem is, I don't have one that I could CC, would have to be out in the open, which is fine in my book.

Like you said, I have no experience with in "knife fighting" nor do I feel the need to have experience! I am not sure that it would really help me too awful much to have it, but the psychological affect it would have on a potential "opponent" was kind of what I was after.

Thanks, Bryce
 
Like I said in an earlier post, he's very immature. And I agree with you about carrying a big knife like that out in public... It's just showing off.. For what reason I don't know. True Son
 
An AR is no more designed to "kill people" than a knife, a ball bat, or anything else for that matter. Saying this is just plain irresponsible, and plays right into the hands of those that want to outlaw all guns, even those 'just used for hunting'.

Think about it, men first used rocks, then slingshots, then knives and spears, and so forth when they hunted and went then when they went to war. Heck shotguns, which the anti-gunners usually don't even mention, were used with great success in WW1 to kill the enemy in their trenches, not to mention being used in future wars as well (look at pics of Vietnam sometime and I guarantee you you'll eventually see some pump actions being carried). By your way of thinking that means that any object that can be used as a weapon (shotgun included), must have been designed to 'kill people'.

Personally none of the AK's, nor any of my other guns for that matter, have ever been used to kill anyone. Nor will they be used to kill anyone unless my life, my families life, are put in jeopardy.
 
Get yourself a multi tool. You know one of the folding up ones with pliers,knife,screw driver and more goodies. Get a good name brand one with locking blades. If you start carrying one of those you will never know how you ever got along without it.
 
You hit on exactly why more people need to carry open, when it's legal to do so, when you say that others act differently when they see a weapon.

Like I mentioned in the original post, people 'act different' because for many now days their only exposure to guns has been the negative exposure given through the media. Until they are exposed to responsible folks, that aren't looking to do them harm, they have no other frame of reference.

Like you said, CC is a good thing, and I do it too when it's appropriate, and/or more convenient for me to do. The only problem is that when others can't see the gun, again, they don't have the chance to build that reference library of responsible folks carrying.

Seriously, how many of those folks that are 'afraid' of guns are around them every day, but are completely clueless of the fact because everyone chooses to CC? Remember, it's those same folks that are using their 'evil' frame of reference to influence the politicians to insure that even your legally CC gun is still 'evil' and don't want you to carry, or own it either.

I think you'd be surprised at just how much of a non-issue open carry is for others, if it's legal to do, and you began doing it. Granted if you dress like, and walk around acting like a gangsta' then yes, I can see it drawing attention, but don't go around acting like a bad a--, and just be normal self, and it's fine. I have to say I was really surprised at the lack of attention mine brought when I first started carrying, but as stated earlier, the attention is has brought gives me a chance to educate those that don't know, but do vote.
 
I see what your saying. Even so, as I said, neither a knife, nor a gun is any more than a tool, until such time it's needed as a weapon.

Even in the case of a gun, it's primary existence, at least to me, is as a 'sporting tool' and as a 'tool of deterrent'. If it's not successful in that role, then, and only then, does it assume the role of weapon.

As I said, too many people feel that the ONLY use for either a gun, or a knife is as a weapon, and that's just not true.
 
Oh I know! I carry one around the farm with me ALL the time! I have actually gone through 4 sheaths... :

It is a Winchester that I won at a BSA camp a LONG time ago! The knife is broke on it, and all of the rivets are starting to come out, but I mostly just use it for the pliers! They will cut fencing wire (one strand at a time) easily hold nuts/bolts stuff... Like a 3rd hand to me! Wouldn't know what to do without it! Bryce
 
As I stated in my original post, you never know where you'll be, or what you'll be doing, when having a gun with you will save your life, or the lives of others. I don't figure the folks in the Colorado theater ever gave a thought to someone shooting them as they watched a movie, but it happened, any more than others involved in similar shootings (ie think about the ones on a secure military base) gave their fate a second thought.

As far as places not wanting me to carry in their buildings, that's not much of an issue here in NC. There are places, such as government buildings like the courthouse, etc, where carrying is prohibited by law. On the other hand, a store, or whatever can post a 'no guns allowed' sign, but it carries no legal weight. The only thing that can happen is if your found carrying, is that they can ask you to leave. If you resist, then it's trespassing, but if you leave, then there is nothing they can do. Needless to say, until those stores decide they are going to be responsible for my safety when I'm inside, I will carry concealed, whether they like it or not. If they discover my pistol and want to ask me to leave, fine, I won't darken their door again. Personally I'd much rather walk out their door, never to return, than to be carried out to the coroners wagon......
 
I'm a strong second amendment supporter and have guns of my own. I have no problem defending my home or using a weapon as a last resort. The problem I see is that if you have a gun with you, you're less likely to just avoid trouble. Anytime you threaten or use armed force on another human being there are consequences. There's a song by Johnny Cash called "Don't Take Your Guns to Town" that has some wisdom to be heeded.
 
(quoted from post at 04:09:27 03/05/15) You're right, it was long. I read most of it.

I carry two pocket knives just about everywhere. No one knows they're there. Is his big ol' ego knife a more effective tool than my knives? He's making a statement. How that statement gets interpreted is out of his hands.

Last summer a guy carried an AR into a farmer's market here in Wisconsin. He told people he was making a point. What was his point? That he could be more effective at bargaining for a peck of tomatoes with a gun slung across his back? Carrying something like that into a place like that is stupid. It puts all involved on edge, including the responding police officers. Had he come on my farm with that piece, he would have been told to leave or disarm. How would he have responded to that order?

If you want to make a statement, fine. Just be aware that you have NO IDEA on how people you do not know will respond.

Gotta agree!

We have a guy here who open carries a knife similar to the one Bryce posted a picture of everywhere. He has a few people convinced that he's a bad man but all he is is a con man. The funny part is he's about 5'6" and 30 or so pounds overweight. About the only statement he's making to most people who know him is that he's an idiot.

These guys running around with AR's and AK's slung across their bodies are making a point. The point taken by anti gun people is that they are dangerous and shouldn't have a gun.

A few years ago while in a Fleet Farm store I stopped to try on a jacket. I had my pistol on me. An old lady saw it and got spooked. I'm a lot more careful about that now.

Rick
 
Bryce, your exactly right, there are many instances of a 'good guy with a gun' handling a situation, and saving a life, or whatever, that never make headlines, while the use of a gun in a crime always seems to make the national news. This is something that every responsible gun owner should be fighting against, and attempting to make right by exercising their rights, and doing so in a responsible manner. Unfortunately far too many would rather hide the fact they are a gun owner, hide the fact they carry, etc, for whatever reason. In any case it does none of us any good and leaves a very few of us with the task of trying to do it all.

That being said, I'm not intending to dog you here, as you seem to have your stuff together pretty good for a kid your age, but I agree with the thought that you do need to mature a little more.

Like I said, that's not dogging you, it's just fact. At your age you don't have the life lessons under your belt to always think about a situation 'completely' and make the best decision, as your frame of reference/knowledge is still too small.

I say this because of what you just wrote about the guy that caught the thief stealing his chains and binders. Personally I think the guy went a bit far putting someone in the hospital over his stuff. That's not to say the thief shouldn't have been subdued and caught by 'any means necessary', as that fact is a given.

By saying that doesn't mean that I think beating him to the point this guy did was right. In fact the guy could have gotten himself in trouble for using excessive force, or even killing the thief if his injuries had been serious enough. In either case it could have resulted in the guy being jailed himself. To me a set of chains and binders isn't worth going to jail over.

I know laws differ from state to state, but here in NC you can use physical force to protect your belongings, but deadly force is allowed only to protect life.

In other words if I caught someone stealing from me, I can attempt to stop them physically, and I can even pull my gun if I really wanted to, and I can even hope that just seeing it drawn would cause them to stop what they were doing. However I could do nothing but stand there with a gun pointed at them, as they still walked off with everything, because I can not shoot them just for taking my stuff. If I did I'd go to jail. Now if the same thief was stealing say a piece of pipe, and turned and came at me, with what I perceived as an intent to harm me, then yes, I could shoot, but ONLY if I was in fear for my life. Now the 'fear for your life' doesn't apply when your inside your home, vehicle, or place of business, but even then pure old common sense HAS to be applied before you commit to taking someone's life.

Unlike a knife, which many use mainly as a tool by most people, a gun is different. As a result of that difference, when you pull a gun, you have to understand something. The minute it leaves the holster it ceases to be a 'tool of deterrent', and it does become a weapon, and you have to be willing, and able to use that weapon, or it becomes nothing but a liability.

One thing I have always been taught, if you draw a weapon you better be ready to use it. If you are forced to do so, you never shoot to wound, you always shoot to kill. That way of thinking has been passed down to me, and I've passed it down to my daughter. When she was 11 years old, we were target shooting one day, and my wife commented on the fact that she, 'could do some damage' with the pistol if she ever needed to because she was consistently hitting the target. Our daughters response was to turn and look at her Mom and say, "Mommy, if something happens and I ever have to shoot somebody, I'm not going to damage them, I'm going to kill them".

Now that doesn't mean I think my daughter is responsible enough to carry a pistol with her all the time, at her current age of 12. However it does tell me that she understands the seriousness of her actions should someone ever try to break in and hurt her when she is home alone. She knows how to use her .357 (she shoots .38 specials), and she is pretty good with it, so I pity the fool that ever tries anything and gets in her sights.

Like I said, I'm not trying to dog you on this, but given your age, and way of thinking, you do need to mature a bit, just as others have stated. Based upon your current outlook on things, especially when it comes to something like carrying a gun you need at least a few more years behind you before your ready to handle that responsibility, at least in a public setting....Now thats coming from a guy who was carrying Dad's rifle, or 12ga, into the woods to hunt small game, alone, when I was 12....something I don't think you'd have any problem handling when you were that age either.
 
The only problem with that way of thinking, is that you can try to avoid trouble all you want, and MAY go through your whole life doing so successfully. If so, count yourself lucky.

Unfortunately trouble doesn't try to avoid anybody. As I said in another post below, none of the folks in recent mass shootings were in places where trouble would have been expected. Sadly it still found them and many of them are still dead as a result.

In fact, and I hate to sound cliché here, but places where guns are not allowed, are the very places criminals often chose to commit their crime. Why, because they know there will be little to no resistance to their efforts, especially if THEY ARE carrying a gun, or have any other kind of weapon for that matter. There is no easier target than an unarmed group of people, and no deterrent to a bad guy with a gun better than a good guy with his own gun.

In any case, I personally I don't like being an easy target, and would much rather be the good guy with the gun, and live, than be the unarmed dead guy.....
 
The only fight I had ever been in was over 25 years ago, and that was dealing with a drunk when I was in Navy. I got hit, but never swung a punch, as another guy jumped between us before I could do anything.

Like you said this whole world needs a nice, hard kick in the britches, to that I agree whole heartidly. Too, like you, I much prefer to use my head to keep myself out of trouble, and it works most of the time. Unfortunately those that cause the trouble don't care what your thinking, or trying to do. In their eyes it's all about them, and what they want. In many cases they just hope you won't get in their way, but there are those that sincerely hope you do so they can hurt, or kill you just for fun.

I never truly understood that until the kid pulled his gun on me that night. That one instance was a turning point for me in the way I viewed the world in general. I already knew from my time in the military spent overseas, that there were folks out there that didn't even know you, yet didn't like you and would kill you at the drop of a hat, but the thinking never extended to being back at 'home' in the States. As I said, my whole outlook changed that night when I saw that it could happen here just as easily as it could anywhere else in the world....

As far as 'what to think' about the right to bear arms, I can only ask this. What does the Constitution say in the 2A? It clearly states that the right to bear arms 'Shall NOT be infringed'. It states nothing about the right being confined to carrying concealed, carrying only in your home but not in public, or anything else. It also uses the word SHALL, which in a legal context has always meant pretty much, 'without question', 'with no restriction', or whatever. That's not to say I think those convicted of violent crimes, those with mental problems, and so on should be allowed to own a gun, but for the rest of us, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED, has just as much meaning, and clarity to it, as the 1A which guarantees the freedom of speech which we all, guns owners and anti-gunners alike, cherish so much. In fact, and it might sound cliché, but the 2A was designed to be used as a deterrent, or weapon if needed, to protect the 1A...

As such your free to feel however you want, but it's the 2A that, in part, gives you that right. As such it should be embraced just as tightly, and as truly, as the 1A or any of the others.
 
Out of sight - out of mind is a much better approach.

Yes we can carry open here in NC as long as it's loaded. Problem is there's there's this little law called "being armed to the terror of the public". Only takes one skittish person and you're headed to the pokey. And no you won't beat it. With things like they are now a youngster even trying would be playing Russian Roulette.

Allowing your daughter to use the k word associated with a weapon is a major mistake! STOP is the only permissible word there is.
 
I believe that the ones that carry guns and knives for all to show are really insecure cowards.
 
"but the psychological affect it would have on a potential "opponent" was kind of what I was after."

At 6 foot 5 inches tall, I'd guess you already have that effect on most people. Showing a weapon just gives the other guy an excuse to bring out his own weapon "to even up the odds for a fair fight."

Learn to use the natural advantage your height gives you. Adding weapons you don't know how to use gives the advantage back to the other guy.
 
(quoted from post at 08:57:55 03/05/15) An AR is no more designed to "kill people" than a knife, a ball bat, or anything else for that matter. Saying this is just plain irresponsible, and plays right into the hands of those that want to outlaw all guns, even those 'just used for hunting'.

Think about it, men first used rocks, then slingshots, then knives and spears, and so forth when they hunted and went then when they went to war. Heck shotguns, which the anti-gunners usually don't even mention, were used with great success in WW1 to kill the enemy in their trenches, not to mention being used in future wars as well (look at pics of Vietnam sometime and I guarantee you you'll eventually see some pump actions being carried). By your way of thinking that means that any object that can be used as a weapon (shotgun included), must have been designed to 'kill people'.

Personally none of the AK's, nor any of my other guns for that matter, have ever been used to kill anyone. Nor will they be used to kill anyone unless my life, my families life, are put in jeopardy.

If you want to open carry a rock, be my guest.

An AR -Assault Rifle - is primarily designed to kill massed groups of enemy soldiers. Alexander Kalashnikov did not imagine using his well designed, but fairly inaccurate, firearm to take down advancing herds of deer, or mow down paper targets. It's just as at-home on the battlefield as a grenade. Can you shoot deer with it? Sure. But it's PRIMARY purpose is "People killer". You take your AR out to the woods, and I'll take my .270 bolt action to the woods. I guarantee I can take down as many or more coyotes as you. I can be darned sure I can put more rounds on paper at 150 yards than you can.

This started as a discussion on open carry. I maintain my original position - open carrying, be it a 9" knife or an AR, is a foolish thing to do. It makes others uncomfortable and makes you a target.

Regarding your story, Wayne. You're quite lucky that you didn't get blasted. He clearly didn't plan on using the gun he supposedly drew on you. Had he intended to use it, you'd have been dead the instant you drew yours. AND he would have had a defensible position - you drew on him on his property. He was defending himself and his home. Drawing your gun did not save your life. But it made you feel better, right?
 
I add this to the mix:
Some years ago, on December 7, 1993, Colin Ferguson opened fire on the Long Island Railroad commuter train. He killed 6 and wounded 19 before he was subdued by other passengers.
IF (and this is a very big IF) the People's Republic of New York had not had the Sullivan Law, and people were allowed to own and/or carry defensive weapons, I suggest that the shooter would have been stopped dead (literally) in his tracks before he got off more than a couple of rounds. I believe that an armed citizen would have seen what was going on and opened fire on the shooter before he could do much damage.

The most truthful statement I have heard in my adult life is that "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."

And, do the hand wringing bleeding heart liberals actually think that criminals will obey when they pass more and more laws restricting guns??? I think NOT!!!
 
Knives can be handy at times, almost anything can be used as a weapon- force multiplier for thumping or cutting better than hands or feet. Personal experience- assault attempt and put a hole in attackers left lung with screw driver tends to stop further attempts. A year or so later a 'gang attack' by 3 people who were vandalizing cars ends quick when 4.5 inch blade Case knife is used to slice attacker trying a headlock's rear end- 3 pokes, blood flowing and they break off quick. Use a pen to gouge inside of elbow of striking arm of attacker- he won't try to punch with that arm for couple days. All this when couple years younger than Bryce is now. I teach some of kids in church how to handle school bullies- choir girls don't have any problems now. Basics is avoid- but if they can't avoid leave attacker/bully on floor, one mother said her daughter called last fall and said she remembered what I'd taught her and did single punch on frizzy haired meth freak bully and bounced her off wall, left whimpering on floor- now is 'guard dog' for some other students that had been picked on . So far the last couple incident of students defending have not involved weapons- but I train them in some knife work, the use of pencils and pens-whatever handy- as weapons, silk scarves or neckties as Bola or Thuggee strangling cords and situational awareness. Fixed blade knife is basicaly a tool, same as a pocket pen or screw driver- but I've used all of the above to defend myself when needed. RN
 
To me a ratchet is just a tool, but I see no need to carry one openly or concealed when I am out and about. I feel the same way about my guns, when I go hunting or target shooting I carry a gun. If I am not hunting or target shooting, I leave my guns at home. I think openly carrying guns or big knives is more likely to erode the right to own than a pistol in the bedroom drawer or a double barrel behind the door at home. I know people with concealed carry permits, and at least a couple of them have no business with a gun at all in my opinion.
 
Here's the ONLY problem I have with what you say:

If you are defending yourself with a gun, and still have that gun drawn when the police arrive....guess who they're going to shoot, usually before they ask any questions? It ain't gonna be the guy on the ground who started things.

I have a lifetime CC permit...but I'm still thinking about whether it's worth being "dead right," but still DEAD, when the cops stop shooting.
 
(quoted from post at 16:01:26 03/05/15)
(quoted from post at 08:57:55 03/05/15) An AR is no more designed to "kill people" than a knife, a ball bat, or anything else for that matter. Saying this is just plain irresponsible, and plays right into the hands of those that want to outlaw all guns, even those 'just used for hunting'.

Think about it, men first used rocks, then slingshots, then knives and spears, and so forth when they hunted and went then when they went to war. Heck shotguns, which the anti-gunners usually don't even mention, were used with great success in WW1 to kill the enemy in their trenches, not to mention being used in future wars as well (look at pics of Vietnam sometime and I guarantee you you'll eventually see some pump actions being carried). By your way of thinking that means that any object that can be used as a weapon (shotgun included), must have been designed to 'kill people'.

Personally none of the AK's, nor any of my other guns for that matter, have ever been used to kill anyone. Nor will they be used to kill anyone unless my life, my families life, are put in jeopardy.

If you want to open carry a rock, be my guest.

An AR -Assault Rifle - is primarily designed to kill massed groups of enemy soldiers. Alexander Kalashnikov did not imagine using his well designed, but fairly inaccurate, firearm to take down advancing herds of deer, or mow down paper targets. It's just as at-home on the battlefield as a grenade. Can you shoot deer with it? Sure. But it's PRIMARY purpose is "People killer". You take your AR out to the woods, and I'll take my .270 bolt action to the woods. I guarantee I can take down as many or more coyotes as you. I can be darned sure I can put more rounds on paper at 150 yards than you can.

This started as a discussion on open carry. I maintain my original position - open carrying, be it a 9" knife or an AR, is a foolish thing to do. It makes others uncomfortable and makes you a target.

Regarding your story, Wayne. You're quite lucky that you didn't get blasted. He clearly didn't plan on using the gun he supposedly drew on you. Had he intended to use it, you'd have been dead the instant you drew yours. AND he would have had a defensible position - you drew on him on his property. He was defending himself and his home. Drawing your gun did not save your life. But it made you feel better, right?

An "AR" these days describes any rifle based on what was originally the AR-15. "AR" stands for "Armalite Rifle", my spelling may be off, but that's what the original company was called IIRC. (BTW- MIKHAL KALASHNIKOV invented the AK47, not the AR15!) It does not stand for "assault rifle" and never did. Todays AR ids the most popular sporting arm in America and they aren't at all "designed to kill massed groups of enemy soldiers". They are precision platforms capable out out shooting your bolt action 270 in many cases. In fact, I'd say you lose you bet on the coyote hunt. Do some research before stating what you believe to be fact. Times have changed, a lot, since the days for the M16.
 
If you ever have a gun pulled on you, it makes you realize in a hurry, just exactly how insecure you are.

Like a joke I heard years ago about a cop that had pulled an old woman over. He approached the car and saw a shotgun, rifle, pistol, etc, etc, etc, inside. He questioned her about the guns and asked what she was afraid of that she felt the need to have all of them. Her response was that as long as she had them, she wasn't afraid of a damm thing.............

Having, or carrying a gun, knife, or whatever, doesn't mean your insecure, it simply means you have the sense to insure your security against those that may want to harm you.......and I assure you those people are out there, whether you've ever run up against one of them or not. Personally I'd rather be seen as insecure as I had to be seen in a coffin.....
 
"Being armed to the terror of the public" means that you have to be brandishing the weapon, or something of that nature. Having a LEGALLY owned firearm, and carrying it in a LEGAL manner is far from what your describing.

Remember, we have a RIGHT to carry, just as others have a right to feel however they want to feel about it. Like I said though, most who oppose guns have no direct, positive example of law abiding, gun owners, just the media's version of the 'evil idiots'. If we don't show them that the gun doesn't do anything on it's own, they continue to be afraid, and tat does nothing but put our rights in further jeopardy.

Like I said, if we voluntarily give up that RIGHT without even a whimper, then it only goes to make things easier for the government to take away other rights.

As far as using the word KILL -vs- the more politically correct word of 'STOP', I personally think that's utter nonsense. If you are forced to shoot, you shoot to KILL, not to STOP. You never shoot with the thought that your going to do anything but KILL the threat, in order to stop it. To think of it as simply 'stopping' the threat does nothing but diminish the personal accountability necessary to justifiably take a life in your own defense.......
 
(quoted from post at 09:53:57 03/05/15)
(quoted from post at 05:35:41 03/05/15)
It's political speech, open carry is. That is the "speech" that's protected under the 1st Amend. Yeah, a guy carrying an AR will make a lot of people uncomfortable. Well, I get real uncomfortable when 2 dudes start groping each other in front of me or when some idiot is drunk around me or some fool covered tats with earlobe stretchers waits on my table. No one gives 2 hoots about my level of uncomfortable. The point is that the guy didn't go and start shooting people. Criminals do that, and they use more than just guns. People need to stand up for their rights.

It's odd that people get all nervous around a gun but use or are around other equally deadly weapons every day and think nothing of it. I don't care for the jerks that try to scare people by displaying guns or knives of nasty pitbulls or whatever, but my little 38 stuck in my pocket isn't hurting or scaring a thing. It's my right to protect my life, loved ones and property, Those who would give up that right have a screw loose.

The two dudes groping each other is inappropriate (a guy and a girl groping in public is, too), but they aren't one chambered round away from shooting you dead. An AR's primary purpose is to kill people. If you carry one openly into a public venue, you're making a statement.

Put yourself in the shoes of the tomato vender at that farmer's market. A person you don't know from Adam is in front of you with a slung AR. Are you completely cool with the situation, or are you considering what he might do next? How about if he had a grenade hanging from his belt? Weapons built to kill people make people uncomfortable. Funny how that works, huh?

You want to go around armed? Fine. Do so in a stealthy manner. Get a concealed carry and get as small a pistol as possible to remain inconspicuous. The best way to stay safe is to stay quiet and ready.

A fixed 9" knife is a statement. An open carried gun is a statement. You want to make a statement, go ahead. Just be aware that your statement means many different things to many different people.

An AR's main purpose is not to kill people. An AR's main purpose is to function. People kill people. Guns are tools, no more, no less. People with an irrational fear of weapons have mental issues they need to deal with. The super scary AR is no more "deadly" than the knife or the shotgun or the mini revolver. A lot of people have bought into the fear mongering of movies, TV and the press. An AR is not an "automatic", they are not military weapons anymore than a bolt action rifle or pump action shotgun are. I can not think of a single firearms platform that does not have a military ancestor. And for the record, hand grenades are not available to anyone outside the military. What hand grenades have to do with this discussion escapes me.

The problem is that people are so far removed from the land, from the rural lifestyle, that the sight of a gun makes them all girly-nervous. Big deal, it's a gun. You stand a far, far greater likelihood of someone killing you with a car than a gun, but I don't hear the nervous Nellies whining about that. Maybe what we need is for people to grow up and stop fearing inanimate objects. Maybe we'd be far better off if seeing someone with a gun didn't send half the population into hysterics.

If a guy with an AR or AK or Garand or most anything else shows up in front of me I'll react the same way I have for the past 40 years- the exact same way I react to anyone approaching me I don't know. I'm going to wet my pants at the sight of a gun.

If you actually read what I wrote you'd see I advocate concealed carry, not open carry. When I want to make a statement though, I don't think reactions of fear and hysteria are at all appropriate.
 
(quoted from post at 10:34:31 03/05/15) Bret I agree that Bryce carrying a LONG knife in public serves little purpose other than his wanting to "SHOW OFF" or something.

I have a CC permit. I usually carry. Most people never know I carry. That is the better way in my opinion.

OPEN carry just causes too many issues and really does not do what I want carrying to do. I want to be able to protect myself. Open carry actually may endanger me more as people act differently when they see a weapon.

IF you have an weapon out in sight then the situation may go south much faster than if you don't.

A 16 year old KID does not have any reason to be carrying a long knife out in public. I have no problem with him owning one and even carrying it around his farm or when he is out hunting but not just out traveling around in public. It becomes "showing off" to me at that point.

Also very few people have the skill to fight off much more than a dog with a knife. Maybe he is TRAINED to fight with a knife but I really doubt it.

Here is one for you guys to think about. If a 16 year old guy shows up on your door step carrying the knife Bryce pictured, would you let him take YOUR daughter out on a date?????

I sure as heck would not. Even if they were going hunting. It just shows me he needs to grow up some more.

It's all a matter of common sense, isn't it? You do what's appropriate for the place and time or else you keep whats inappropriate out of sight. Simple as that. I never got the whole Rambo/bowie knife thing in the first place, but to each their own. I think in this case there's more to the desire than is said.
 
TL, you are correct about a racket being a tool and I never carry a racket to Church, but you can rest assured that if I even go thru Charlotte I'm going to have a gun on me because that is the tool most likely to save my life. If you don't feel comfortable carring a gun don't. But by the same token it isn't your right to say something negative about someone legally doing something that you personally don't care to do. As another North Carolinian I have a conceled pistol in my pocket most of th time. No one knows it and I don't make a show of it but it is there if I need it.
As far a being dead right, if I ever need to use it to protect my, or my families life I'll use it with no compunctions at all. when the cops show up he will be laying on the ground and there won't be a pistol showing, but I'll volunteer the info to the cops that there is a pistol in my pocket. they know what to do then and it won't involve them shooting me.
 
(quoted from post at 20:04:19 03/05/15) If you ever have a gun pulled on you, it makes you realize in a hurry, just exactly how insecure you are.

Like a joke I heard years ago about a cop that had pulled an old woman over. He approached the car and saw a shotgun, rifle, pistol, etc, etc, etc, inside. He questioned her about the guns and asked what she was afraid of that she felt the need to have all of them. Her response was that as long as she had them, she wasn't afraid of a damm thing.............

Having, or carrying a gun, knife, or whatever, doesn't mean your insecure, it simply means you have the sense to insure your security against those that may want to harm you.......and I assure you those people are out there, whether you've ever run up against one of them or not. Personally I'd rather be seen as insecure as I had to be seen in a coffin.....

There are 2 types of people in the US today- Those willing to take responsibility for their own well being and those that believe that either nothing bad will ever happen to them or that the police will save them. Those in the "responsible" category don't necessarily carry 24/7/365. I don't for instance. But I'm under no illusions about things. OTOH, I would never try to force someone else to arm themselves. No one says you HAVE to exercise your 2nd Amend right. But no one should be able to take that right away either. If they can take one right away, they can take all the rest of them away too. People often fail to consider that.
 
First point, AR does not stand for Assault Rifle. It actually is the first two letters of the original manufacturer's name, ARmalite. Too, the AR was origionally designed as a .308 rifle, by Eugene Stoner. Obviously you've got your designers mixed up, as the AK, was designed by Kalashnikov, not the AR. Too, the origional AK is a heavy caliber (7.62 x 39), mid range weapon, which can easily reach out to 150 yards, and beyond, with good accuracy. On the other hand, the AR, especially in 5.56, can easily drive tacks at 400 yards and beyond. Last, just for imformational purposes, the AK, and AR DESIGNS are readily available in a variety of calibers from .22 to .50. In other words it's all about DESIGN, and caliber really means little to nothing beyond the knockdown force of your caliber of choice, in either rifle.

Saddly, it's folks making statements like yours, and basing their ideas on misinformation such as this, thatgoes a long way toward putting all of our gun rights at risk. I can assure you the anti-gunners don't care what you use your rifle for, it can kill, so they want it gone.....

That being said, in the original, full auto configuration, yes both the AR and AK rifles were designed for warfare. That makes them no different than many other rifles originally designed for warfare, regardless of whether they were bolt action, semi auto, or whatever. Since you brought up hunting, remember, the 7mm and 8 mm Mauser, which is a really popular hunting rifle, was origionally designed by the Germans as a military rifle. The same goes for the Ruger Mini14 and Mini 30, which were based of the M14 action. That same idea, even if it's not the same action, spun off even further into the ever popular 10/22. I could go on, but for the same of at least a little brevity I won't.

In other words the main push for nearly ever major firearm advancement, in the past hundred plus years, has been in answer to the military's call for a better, more reliable rifle or pistol. In all cases it comes down to nothing more than a basic firearm design, that, while made for the military originally, was redesigned as a semi auto, or had other modifications made, to make it more acceptable, and more useful to civilians.

In the end, regardless of who designed the firearm, it's the person using it that makes it either an 'evil' weapon, or a useful tool. To put a stigma on a design, just because it had it's origins on the battle field, is just plain irresponsible.

On that note, please explain why there isn't the same stigma placed on that evil 1911 Colt auto pistol? Seriously, think about it, the 1911 was designed for the military, and has one of the longest histories of military use of any firearm, regardless of type. Now days it's still one of the most reliable, most loved, most used pistols our there, but it doesn't have the stigma attached that the AR, or AK does even though that design has killed more than it's share of people in a combat scenario.

As far as my story, you obviously weren't there, nor did you know the kid like I did. I will say that your right, in the fact that it was a good thing that no one got shot that night. Things could, and I expect would, have gone to a whole different level had I not had my pistol with me to use as a deterrent to his 'I'm a bad a-- ego' brought about by his owning a pistol.

That aside, as I have stated, the way I was taught, you DO NOT draw a gun unless you plan, or are prepared, to use it. So, when he drew on me (no 'supposedly' about it) it was far from 'obvious', at least to me, that he didn't intend to use it. As far as him having a defensible position, simply because he was on his Mom's property, and I had a pistol also,is utter BS. There were multiple witnesses as to what was happening, including his Mom who was pleading with him not to be stupid, and telling him that what he was planning wasn't a good idea...but he was simply too stupid and/or arrogant to listen to her. The only thing that made this kid rethink his position was the fact that he knew me well enough to know that I was both a better shot than he was, and that I DO NOT PLAY when it comes to guns. He also knew, as I told him when I picked up mine out of the seat of my truck, that if his gun went beyond where it was when it came out of the truck, and if it swung any further in my direction, I would drop him where he stood. Further, if you think that shooting someone simply because they are in your Mom's yard, and they are airing your dirty laundry to your parents offers up a 'defensible' position, then might I suggest that you need to take the time to educate yourself on the laws of self defense in general, and especially as they apply to the use of a firearm/deadly force.

As for your question about having to draw mine making me 'feel better' all I can say to that is, 'are you serious'? Personally, I see life as a precious thing, and just the thought of possibly having to shoot him was enough to make me sick to my stomach. However, as I basically told his Mom when she came up to me after the incident, I value my life((( and the life of my family))) over the life of others. While I respected the fact that he was her son, I have a family that relies on me, and I would have dropped him without a second thought, to protect myself, if he had been stupid enough to take it that far. Fortunately for the both of us my pistol, did it's job, and acted as a deterrent, and I DID NOT have to resort to using it as a weapon.

In case you want to know how that made me feel...it felt great not to have been shot at, but more so not to have had to take a life......
 
(quoted from post at 00:44:16 03/06/15) But by the same token it isn't your right to say something negative about someone legally doing something that you personally don't care to do.
So your 2nd amendment right trumps my 1st amendment right?
I don't think so.
 
It's all relative, I have a Concealed carry permit, that offends some people. Truth of the matter is a significant portion of my military career involved learning how to do interesting things with explosives, that's probably much more of a danger than me with a gun. As much as I get upset with things like government and people, usually stupid people that are usually from the Northeast US or the coastal western US I accept they have a right to be stupid and I have no obligation or right to educate them on their stupidity, provided they leave me and mine alone.

As for the hysteria about guns....how many here know when and where the largest mass murder in a US school occurred? I'll tell you the perpetrator killed 44 people that day, including himself. Why did he do such a deed? Do any of you know what type of gun he used or how many rounds of ammunition were shot for him to kill 44 people? What news event quickly overshadowed Andrew Kehoe's murder of 44 people on that sunny day in May?

Andrew Kehoe killed 44 people, most of them in the public school in Bath Michigan. He didn't use any guns thus he fired no shots, he had packed the basement of the Bath Consolidated Schools with Pyrotrol, (an explosive made from reprocessed WWI munitions) and wired it into the bell system of the school. When he wasn't able to kill all the people he wanted to he drove his pick up truck up along side of one of them and caused another explosion killing himself and the School Superintendent (one of his intended targets). The reason he did this was believed to be the stress from his wife's illness and the realization he was probably going to loose his farm. He blamed this on the increased school taxes brought about by school consolidation. In reality he was a victim of a depressed agricultural economy and the simple fact he wasn't a very good farmer. Oh yes Andrew Kehoe's deeds were quickly overshadowed by and fell from the national news upon Charles Lindbergh's landing in Paris.

It is often said the 2nd amendment is the most important civil right as it provides for the defense of all other rights. This right unfortunately offends those that for whatever reason feel they have a right to control you and mandate what you can and can't do with your life or treasure.
 
Your right, the fear of seeing someone with a gun is irrational......You obviously understand this. So why would seeing someone coming toward you with their firearm, in a non-threatening position, cause you to 'wet your pants'... unless you also have at least a bit of that irrational fear?

Personally I'd tend to be more afraid of the unseen than the seen, given that criminals typically try to be sneaky and hide their weapons until they decide to use them.....where as those with nothing to hide typically aren't up to 'no good'.

I've seen lots of people carrying pistols, but here are two similar, but far different examples. I have been in a country Wal-Mart, as well a Wal-Mart in one of the not so good parts of Charlotte, and have seen folks with pistols in both places. The country setting was a white guy, with his baby daughter, pushing around a buggy. He and I actually had a nice conversation when I asked about his holster. The other was a black lady, with a drop, leg holster, carrying what appeared to be a Beretta. In neither case was I the least bit scared, regardless of the setting, or the gun involved, simply because of the way the two individuals carried themselves.
 
No one's saying that the 2A trumps the 1A, only that the 2A is the guarantee that the 1A will continue to exist.

Most think, and many will argue that the 2A was intended to be used for 'sport' hunting, or self defense.

The truth is that, if you study history, the 2A was written to both guarantee to our ability to fight as a nation against outside oppression, as well as to give the citizens of the US the ability to fight internally against an oppressive, tyrannical government (((such as the one we've currently got in office)))) should the need ever arise.

Having our history rooted in a break from English rule, which included everything from religious persecution, to the persecution of those that spoke out against a tyrannical monarchy, it's not hard to see that the writers of the Constitution took that history into account when they guaranteed our rights.

The first gives us the right to speak out, the second gives us the ability to protect that right (((which has been under attack by the current administration also))) along with all the others, from those that wish to take those rights away.
 
Don't need a permit to carry a knife , but knives are considered weapons if a kid carries one to school or if you try to get in to our local court house with even a box cutter.
 
(quoted from post at 23:49:35 03/05/15) No one's saying that the 2A trumps the 1A, only that the 2A is the guarantee that the 1A will continue to exist.

Most think, and many will argue that the 2A was intended to be used for 'sport' hunting, or self defense.

The truth is that, if you study history, the 2A was written to both guarantee to our ability to fight as a nation against outside oppression, as well as to give the citizens of the US the ability to fight internally against an oppressive, tyrannical government (((such as the one we've currently got in office)))) should the need ever arise.

Having our history rooted in a break from English rule, which included everything from religious persecution, to the persecution of those that spoke out against a tyrannical monarchy, it's not hard to see that the writers of the Constitution took that history into account when they guaranteed our rights.

The first gives us the right to speak out, the second gives us the ability to protect that right (((which has been under attack by the current administration also))) along with all the others, from those that wish to take those rights away.

Wayne, a better way to think of the 2nd was that it was written to recognize a nations right to defend itself and for the individuals right to do the same. Too many people forget that the people who wrote the BoR recognized "natural rights" or even what that means.


One thing people also fail to realize is that the original application of the 1st Amend's free speech clause was solely to protect POLITICAL SPEECH. When it was written it was never intended to apply to things like flag burning or pornography. That idea simply didn't exist. It was to protect people who spoke out against the gov't- period. It was never intended to protect some idiot hurling a slur at another person. In that time you either took it or duked/dueled it out. I won;t even go into some of the other parts of the 1st Amend that we've corrupted.
 
I like the idea of cc over oc because nobody knows who has a gun and who doesn't. That not knowing helps keep the bag guys guessing. I cc sometimes but not always. I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it. Someone stated "you shoot to kill, not to stop". That is completely false. If you feel you must use your gun to protect yourself, you shoot to stop the threat, anything else is excessive force. If you are heard yelling "I will kill you" rather then "stop", you will probably find yourself on the inside looking out.
 
As devil's advocate, what would be considered a "non-threatening" position for a firearm?

Holstered under your shoulder or at your hip?
Stuffed in the waistband of your pants?
Slung over your shoulder?
Cradled in your arms with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction?

In any of those cases, you're a mere fraction of a second from "non-threathing" to "threatening." It's one of the features you point to when extolling the virtues of our right to keep and bear arms!

So, a "non-threatening" position is really a "threatening" position.
 
I carry one to cut things and clean my fingernails. Additionally, when fishing or farming, you never know when you need to cut yourself loose from something. I don't carry one for self defense and never have.

On legally packing, I like the idea even though I don't and never will. Would be crooks don't know if you have a concealed license and currently using it or not. Makes it a safer place. Course some crooks are smart enough to ply their trade where guns are forbidden. That way they figure they have a foot up on the confrontation.

Mark
 
(quoted from post at 10:00:38 03/06/15) I like the idea of cc over oc because nobody knows who has a gun and who doesn't. That not knowing helps keep the bag guys guessing. I cc sometimes but not always. I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it. Someone stated "you shoot to kill, not to stop". That is completely false. If you feel you must use your gun to protect yourself, you shoot to stop the threat, anything else is excessive force. If you are heard yelling "I will kill you" rather then "stop", you will probably find yourself on the inside looking out.

I agree. In all my training over 20 plus years as a cop we were never instructed to shoot to kill, we we're instructed to shoot until the the the right was stopped. Seems like the right way to do things to me.
 
(quoted from post at 10:14:48 03/06/15) As devil's advocate, what would be considered a "non-threatening" position for a firearm?

Holstered under your shoulder or at your hip?
Stuffed in the waistband of your pants?
Slung over your shoulder?
Cradled in your arms with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction?

In any of those cases, you're a mere fraction of a second from "non-threathing" to "threatening." It's one of the features you point to when extolling the virtues of our right to keep and bear arms!

So, a "non-threatening" position is really a "threatening" position.

Do you feel threatened when you see a cop with a holstered gun? Once again, people have become conditioned to fear the mere sight of a weapon. Freud had some interesting things to say about fear of weapons. But, out of sight, out of mind. I'm not into scaring people, no matter how irrational they are, so I'll stay concealed if I carry.
 
(quoted from post at 17:38:01 03/05/15) First point, AR does not stand for Assault Rifle. It actually is the first two letters of the original manufacturer's name, ARmalite. Too, the AR was origionally designed as a .308 rifle, by Eugene Stoner.

That being said, in the original, full auto configuration, yes both the AR and AK rifles were designed for warfare. That makes them no different than many other rifles originally designed for warfare, regardless of whether they were bolt action, semi auto, or whatever. Since you brought up hunting, remember, the 7mm and 8 mm Mauser, which is a really popular hunting rifle, was origionally designed by the Germans as a military rifle. The same goes for the Ruger Mini14 and Mini 30, which were based of the M14 action. That same idea, even if it's not the same action, spun off even further into the ever popular 10/22. I could go on, but for the same of at least a little brevity I won't.



quote]

Wayne, you almost got it right. The AR platform was originally designed and sold as a semi auto sporting rifle, as the AR 10 in 308 starting in 1956. The first military sale was in 223, and with the new round called the AR15 to a friendly foreign nation for it's security forces in 1959. It wasn't adopted as an assault rifle, modified to military specs to the US Army until 1963. That means that the US military with M16 platform and it's variants has gone to war with a civilian sporting rifle sense Viet Nam, modified to military specs. The AK on the other hand was designed as an assault rifle and modified to civilian specs.

Rick
 
TL makes a valid point. When someone is walking around openly carrying an AK or AR and someone else get scared because they don't know much or anything about guns other than what's on the news they just put someone firmly into the "guns are evil" camp IMO. Wanna carry? Carry concealed so you don't spook people. Besides, the media goes into a feeding frenzy! They happy point out another person who they think shouldn't own a gun as an idiot with an "assault rifle". A person who has never been around guns, who may not be for or against is being nudged into the anti crowd because they don't understand. They don't see the person with the AR/AK as someone standing up for a right. They see them as a potential mass killer.

Rick
 

As an old NYSP Lt. told my father and all incoming new troopers back in the '30s:"Keep your gun in your holster and your pecker in your pants.You'll stay out of trouble that way. "
 
(quoted from post at 14:07:54 03/07/15)
As an old NYSP Lt. told my father and all incoming new troopers back in the '30s:"Keep your gun in your holster and your pecker in your pants.You'll stay out of trouble that way. "

We were told the same thing in the late 80's. Also-"Booze, broads and bullets- those are what will get you fired."
 

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