Funny thing about oil filters

BANDITFARMER

Well-known Member
Well lets face it about oil and filters everyone has an opinion about them and we can agree to disagree about them. I think there are 4 companies in the US that make oil filters and they make them for everyone. Oil, Well its about the same way.

Now lets be honest, JD IH Case Ford New Holland White Oliver MF AC AGCO Dodge Ford Chevy well crap all of them don't make there own Oil or Filters, They buy them from someone that makes them to there specks. How many times over the last 30 years have there been new API oil ratings been changed to meet new engine and emission standards? How tight have the tollerances changed in the last 30 years? And I simply to god love it when someone say 15/40 Rotella is the BEST OIL FOR ANY DIESEL ENGINE!!!!!!! WELL IT AINT! Sorry I do not agree. And the same goes for filters. I have been changing oil and filters on my stuff for over 35 years and in that time I have NEVER lost an engine or had to do a rebuild or had filters go bad. The only time I have seen filters go bad is because there was contamenated or very dirty oil or fuel being pumped threw them. I know a guy who bought a truck with a 6-71 Detroit diesel in it with 300,000 miles+ on it. Had big plans for it and he changed the oil and filters. Everyone told him to run 15/40 rotella in it so that's what he did. Ran good for 15 min and it started to rev up on its own to the point it ran away till it locked up tight! Well you know why.

Anyway I am not going bash any ones Oil filters or Oil choice its up to you what you use not me and its your money not mine. I will say this, New engine new style oils. Old engine Old style oils. Simple enough. Oh by the way I have tried Rotella in my trucks and tractors and to tell the truth they don't hold oil pressure after there warmed up and a 96 7.3 simply to god will not run right using it, And that's all I will say about that.

I don't tell anyone what oil or filters to use, That's up to you. Its your money not mine so do as you will. Just don't call me names or beat me up because I don't agree with what you think because you know it all. We can simply agree to disagree, OK? Bandit
 
The 7.3's are funny about the oil you use with there unique oil pressure/injection system, that's for sure, I use Rotella in my stuff and get along okay with it, a bunch of little car/truck engines and a N-14 Cummings,, they all have a bunch of miles on them, the N-14 has 750,000, a few of the little engines have 200,000 on them,,so almost anything can happen to them at this point,, they are on the "other" side of good. I think there are 4-5 basically good oil products out there, at a littler higher quality than others and then there are some cheaper variety's that's for sure. I have heard different stories about how some are different, some from different styles of re-fining, some from different sources of origin, one story claimed that oil east of the Mississippi is better for engines because of the paraffin base, some say that because of the high temperatures of re-fining fuels the oil from that process is not as good,, I by "no" means fully understand all of these variables..and I will never fall out with any one by their choice ether,, I'm also fond of well built Blondes and Budweiser beer ;^)
 
You need to read up on runaway Detroit 6-71's. That truck engine had problems. The freight line I drove for had 4 GMC 9500 series tractors with 6-71 Detroit diesels all running on Rotella 15-40 oil and ran great until taken out of service with 2-3 million miles on them ( engines were rebuilt several time in their life). Seems funny that you have had low oil presure with Rotela 15-40. All my old farm tractors and trucks run on it with no oil presure drop And the company that I worked for used it in 30 tractors ,5 straight trucks, 3 wreckers, 3 fork lifts and other company vehicles all running on Rotela 15-40. The only time you would see drop when hot was when engine was getting tired and ready for overhaul.
 
I am fond of well built blonds to(as long as the wife aint around) but the beer part I have something better in mind. Ha ha. Anywho I get filters for the 7.3 at wally world because the Ford filter is cheaper to buy than a Wix Fram or anybody else. I buy a lot of oil there too, Why spent $17 a gallon at the parts place when I can get it at wally world for $12 a gallon for the same stuff. Filters well I think I have at one time or another used them all and never had any problems with any of them. I have seen more damage done to engines dew to lack of oil changes or the wrong oil. You know 250 hours on an oil change that was done 5 years ago or 15/40 in an old MD diesel that spun and locked up because of the wrong oil. If you take care of them they will take care of you and keep running. Bandit
 
Ideas about oils and filters, is about the same as everybody has a nose everybody has one some run more than others
 
See this is the problem. On the Detroit it had 300,000+ miles on it and it was a 1975 model truck. The valve guides were wore and so were the rings so oil got by them because it thinned down when it warmed up and that is what caused it to run away.

Now the tractor part.

I have an Oliver 1550 diesel with 3200 hours and a Long 900 with 1200 hours and a Case 930 with 5000 hours but was rebuilt @4800 hours. And my 96 F350 7.3 with 124,000 miles on it. All of these are good running and no oil useage engines that are very far from being wore out. But all of them will not hold oil pressure when they warm up with 30 or 40W Rotella, BTDT and it costs to much to try again, And the truck got 15/40 Rotella and it will NOT run right with it in it. 3 1/2 gal of oil plus $10 filter =$65 oil change to do over, No thank you. I will stick to what works for me.

The biggest problem is this ALL the oil you buy today is made for new engines coming off the line witch are totally different than what I need for my older engines. Different engines specks different oils simple as that. And again I have tried Rotella and it just don't work for me. Bandit
 
I've found that delo400 or the shifty kleen stuff at walmart(supertech-yellow lid )works good. Any motor new or old burns rotella like no tomorrow, same with petro-can smegma-snot brand
 
Are'nt the valves on a 6-71 detroit exhaust only?The intake system is thru the supercharger with intake ports at the botttom of the cylinder(2 stroke). Mark
 
Kinda what I thought too. Even if it was an intake valve engine the oil through a guide will burn off and out exhaust,not heat up and re-circulated. Oil won't suck by an exhaust valve because its under pressure when open,not suction. Interesting.
 
I have seen just one engine failure that could be for sure blamed on the oil filter. That was on a 1466. It took out a couple bearings and when I pulled the crankshaft out I found plastic pieces from the stand pipe in the oil filter had lodged in the oil gallery. The filters were from Cenex and they paid the bill. That was the last set of filters I recall seeing with plastic rather than metal for a standpipe in the filter.
 
A Detroit will typically run away when it starts sucking oil past the blower seals, as that's the only place in the combustion air side of the system where you have a vacuum. Anywhere else, be it the air box around the cylinders, inside the bore's, etc, is all under positive pressure created by the blower. This pressure will always be higher than the pressure of the oil draining back to the crankcase from anywhere.


As far as it getting past the rings, when that starts to happen, and oil gets into the air box, it tends to drain out the air box drains. I've seen engines so worn out that the air box would drain better than a gallon of oil out every few hours, and the engine still ran.

Too, I'll go on record and say that as a multi-grade oil warms up, it gets thicker, and as it gets colder, it thins out. In other words a 10w40 will act as a 10 weight at low temps to allow it to flow better and flow where a heavier weight oil won't flow enough to provide proper lubrication. Conversely, the 40 weight part of the specification means it will act as a heavier oil at higher temps to keep it from becoming too thin and not providing enough lubrication.

On that note I've got one customer who had thousands of hours on the inline 6-71's as well as a couple of 6v and 8v-71's without any problems.

In the end though I gave up arguing oils and filters with folks looooong ago. With all of the equipment owners I have encountered over the years, the choices of oils, and filters is as varied, and as much a matter or personal prefferenceas anything else.

That said, I try as much as possible to run a HIGH grade oil from LE in at least my service truck. I've seen it more than double turbo life in a customers machines that consistently wore then our due to it's operating conditions, but more impressive was the 12 year old 3306 CAT engine that, when measured out, came back standard on every measurement taken....after 12 years of running an excavator in a quarry. Now that's some good oil.
 
I have never had a engine failure with any kind of oil or filter, I mean napa oil, Walmart super tech oil, tractor supply oil, cam 2, valvoline, sears spectrum, moble, shell, penzoil, quakerstate, ect. I can't fathom how anyone could be so niave to believe any oil is bad, or any filter. Iv used napa filters, stp, super tech, fram, newholland, fleetgaurd, moto craft, puralutor, foreign auto parts brand, ect, , never a problem. I think alot is all in people's heads. As u said its you money spend it how ever u want.
 
I'm with you. Some people think brand name filters are the only way to go.

I've been doing my own research on small engine filters, briggs, kohler, kawasaki.

Someone on YT recommended I use a steins filter. One filter will work on all my engines. I got a case of them. Then I started cutting apart the used brand name filters after an oil change. To my surprise, so far the steins is better constructed than the rest. Steins even has a pressure relief valve. One of the brand name didn't.

I've changed my oil for years on everything. Now I found the dealer will change my oil for less money than I can go to Auto zone buy the oil and filter. One dealer gives me a free car wash. Most of the time, I go on line and print off a $6 coupons, $24 oil change. I get 4 oil changes and dealer gives me a free on. Really can't beat that.

However, I still do service work on mowers, tractors, generators, and mule. I've used every filter on the market. I've never had an engine failure related to oil failure or filter failure.
 
It's funny. I read on this site, and other sites as well, how one brand is better than another. It's all an opinion, some are based on experience and some are just repeating what they have heard and want to believe. There are too many variables for the average person to tell what is the best. For a hobby tractor enthusiast just about anything will work fine, for a puller something more sophisticated might be better and for someone making a living at it might be something else. I fall in between I only put a couple hundred hours on most of my tractors every year. I use what ever is cheapest for filters and oil from Walmart in my trucks and get 2-300K out of a gas engine in some pretty dirty conditions. By then the rest of the truck is pretty well shot anyway.
I ain't a veterinarian but I know BS when I see it and I'll agree to disagree too :lol:
 
I was not there when this happened so all I can say is this, First off this happened in 05 and it was a 1975 GMC with a V6-71 Detroit and these trucks were 30W in the winter and 40W in the summer because that's all there was back then. The mechanic who went to look at the truck after it ran away said there were several things wrong. 1 the oil was to thin for that engine and never should have had 15/40 in it and it should have had strait 40W in it for the summer. 2 he might have had poured oil into the valve cover instead of the fill tube witch is a no no on a Detroit (he had never been around a Detroit before). 3 Given the age of the engine and mileage and the fact that it was foggy the morning this was done and happened and how some of the oil was put in to the engine. He said he could NOT say for sure what caused it to run away BUT he was leaning more to the oil being the problem.

I have NEVER worked on a Detroit before but I have driven them, And NO I did not work for a MAJOR FLEET CARRIER But more like a mom and pop 1 or 2 truck kind. They are slobber boxes for sure. I don't think I have ever seen a clean V6-71 in a truck to this day, They leaked oil ever ware. You drive one long enough you don't have to check the dip stick because you know after so many miles you need to add 1/2 a gallon or a gallon to it.

Hears the thing about it, The Rotella you buy today is formulated for a brand new 2014 or 2015 engine to meet its requirements , Right? When you drain it out of a warmed up engine it comes out like water and fast! The Exxon 40W I've been running in my Oliver's and other tractors warmed up pours out NOT like water, Its thicker. That is the problem I have with Rotella, If 15/40 is 15W when you start it and when its up to temp and working it should thicken up to be 40W right? Then why is it like water then you drain it?

None of my tractors ever had low oil pressure, Put Rotella in them and you can watch the pressure drop as the engine warms up. WHAT IS WHY I DONT USE IT. Like I said before Its your money not mine do what ever you want as far as oil and filters and I'll do the same. OK? Bandit
 
Some filter specs call for pressure relief valves, some don't. Wix www I especially like but others too list the filter specks with cross reference tables and tell you if a valve is in that filter number and if so what it's bypass pressure range is and membrane filter number in microns and dimensions and other things.

Mark
 
Big 10-4. It's what makes you feel good is what you use regardless. Now how do you suppose I know that? Grin

Mark
 

I know a guy, who everytime he used rotella, his wife got pregnant. And then his neighbor used it and his bull died. Then the old man down the road used it and died of a heart attack. Then there was the guy whos barn was struck by lightning and burnt to the ground. All because he used rotella.

So therefore ............

bullshirt in... bullshirt out....



College was doing a study..

took a grasshopper and put in a cage and said "jump" and the grasshopper jumped.

Pulled off one leg and said "jump" and the grasshopper did.

Pulled off another leg and said "jump" and the grasshopper did.

Pulled off another leg and said "jump" and the grasshopper did.

Pulled off another leg and said "jump" and the grasshopper did.

Pulled off another leg and said "jump" and the grasshopper did NOT.

Conclusion.. Grasshopper with no legs is deaf.
 
While we are on the subject, something you may or may not know. Looking at a filter substitution guide, which I have done several times so as to reduce the types of filters necessary to service my equipment, I obviously look for the smallest micron filtration number.

What you have to remember is that "full flow" rated filters have a limit as to how small a particle they will allow to pass, usually 20 microns, give or take to allow the volume of oil to pass that the engine requires.

On OTR diesels, you will find 2 filters, a full flow and a partial flow. The partial flow only gets about 10% of the oil volume (due to internal restrictions) but it's of a much tighter media limiting flow-through to around 5 microns and is in there to clean up the leftovers......one of the reasons why you get a million miles between major overhauls.

Course you could do it all with one filter but to get the full flow, it would be huge.

Mark
 
Your right, there are a lot of claims with no common sense or good data to back them up,the network news is full of them, 2 or 3 people make a statement, then it goes "Viral", next thing you know it's all over the news, and when it's all sorted out to be absolute Bull Crapp it's too late...
 


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My brother has been a service oilier for construction companies for years and says the Spinning Oil Cleaning Centrifuge is by far the bast oil conditioning unit made. The Swiss started using this system back in WWI when oil was a prime commodity. It spins the oil at a high RPM and throws any particulate outward to be filtered saving the oil and OEM filters. The oil and filters can be used over and over.

Another product is hemp oil, although, you will need to change all the seals and o-rings. Diesel engines were designed to run on hemp oil and fuel from hemp extracts. Diesels run cleaner, longer and way more efficient on hemp products. As a matter of fact diesels that have been running petroleum products will fill several filters with carbon build up after changing over to hemp oil then it will turn clean.
 
I understand what you mean about the filters. I use to work in a bottling plant and one of the items we bottle was distilled water. After it was distilled and pumped into a tank it was run though a 5 micron Millapore filter (3 in a set) then through a 2 micron Millapore filter (3 in a set) before it went into the filler. I could get about 15.000 gallon through them before they were plugged and had to be changed. A set of 3 filters are each about 3' long and were $1600 and change in 1998.

So I do understand the filter system and why its important to keep oil and filters changed @ 100 hours for tractors (sooner if in really dirty conditions) 3000 miles for a gas car or truck and 5000 miles for the diesel 1 ton truck. Oil and filters are the life blood of an engine.

I wonder how many gallons of oil get pumped through the filters @ 100 hours of operation on an average tractor? Bandit
 
I change oil when it gets dirty. That to me indicates the filter condition. On a new engine it obviously doesn't have as much oil breakdown, blowby, engine sludge and all that stuff to clog it up.

On my '60's diesel tractors, I let it get a little dirty but not solid grey black.

Mark
 
I checked all that out with steins filter. The specs was missing on some of the brand names. The kaw filter looked the cheapest, plastic cage inside, card board ends. Relief valve against the card board end.
 
Along those lines, you hear all this "stuff" about colesterol. My doctor bugs me (did) about it and I tell her I don't worry about it (backed up by board certified internal medicine drs. that believe in alternative medicine). Get all the hullablu on the news about it and look at the dynasty the condition has created for "big pharm" and all.

Well guess what. About a week ago it was on several different news sites that it's not the big bad villan it was trumped up to be. Also, also trumping the preaching of one if my alternate Drs., eggs are the perfect food. He said that the white was a joke and was there to protect the yoke by cushioning it and as a deterrent to any predator seeking the yoke. He said the predator would die of mal-nutrition before it ever reached the yoke. Ha!

So with that and my blood pressure to suit her, after she hounded me about that for a couple of years, she moved on over to something else to get me coming back: Blood sugar. So I get the tester and test for 10 days and send her the results which are well within American Diabetes Association guidelines, and she moves on to something else............gotta keep the door swinging.

Mark
 
My old Long 900 has a Centrifuge on it witch is the first tractor I have seen with one on it, Heck it's the first one I ever saw on anything. Undo the cover and take it off then unscrew the bowl and wipe it out with a rag and reinstall, Very simple. In the picture its the large dome on the lower left. Bandit
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Yep oil centrifuge(spinner filter) is the way to go.
I have 2 Belarus tractors with a factory oil centrifuge, just clean it out every couple hundred hours and yer back in business. The oil never gets black no matter how long it stays in the engine.
in the 25+ years i own the tractors i never had to buy an oil filter.
 

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