Fram oil filter takes out another Cummins engine

I don't know how many of you are aware of the issue with using Fram oil filters on Cummins engines. Years ago when I was working in a Chrysler dealer, I changed a number of Cummins engines due to the Fram oil filter coming apart and plugging the piston oil cooler nozzles. An elderly gentleman stopped in to my shop recently because he heard that I worked on a lot of Cummins engines. He said his was making a really loud noise and he was afraid to drive it. I said that I would stop on my way home and listen to it. It definitely had a piston noise and guess what, it had a Fram oil filter on it. He had just purchased the truck used and hadn't even changed the oil yet. I really felt bad for the guy. I don't know if Fram has fixed the problem, I simply won't use one on a Cummins.
 
I can buy Wix and Fleetguard locally for about the same money. Why would anyone buy Fram, when Cummins will honor their warranty with Fleetguard filters?
 
I have used fram filters on my 4 GMC diesel trucks since 96, I never had a problem.

just saying
 
Fram filters have been junk for years. It always amazes me when people try to save a couple bucks on a diesel oil change.
 
Years ago my brother met a fellow who was a salesman for a paper company. His company supplied Fram with their filter media. He told my brother not to ever use a Fram. Said the paper they used was just one grade above toilet paper, only difference was it didn't biodegrade quite as fast.
 
(quoted from post at 13:16:26 02/28/15) I don't know how many of you are aware of the issue with using Fram oil filters on Cummins engines. Years ago when I was working in a Chrysler dealer, I changed a number of Cummins engines due to the Fram oil filter coming apart and plugging the piston oil cooler nozzles. An elderly gentleman stopped in to my shop recently because he heard that I worked on a lot of Cummins engines. He said his was making a really loud noise and he was afraid to drive it. I said that I would stop on my way home and listen to it. It definitely had a piston noise and guess what, it had a Fram oil filter on it. He had just purchased the truck used and hadn't even changed the oil yet. I really felt bad for the guy. I don't know if Fram has fixed the problem, I simply won't use one on a Cummins.

How can you say it was fault of the Fram filter just because it had a Fram filter on it?
 
I remember Chrysler saying to only use their filters as one brand was flaking bits of metal from poorly cut base threads and was clogging the piston coolers. Was that about Fram ??
 
Didja ever think that it might not be the filter any more than just that Cummins engines really suck???
 
I have used Fram oil filters on cars, trucks and farm machinery for close to 40 years with no problems at all. I've also used Fleetguard, ACDelco, Baldwin, Case, IH, and numerous other brands of filter. Never had an engine failure yet.
 
I am just wondering how you came to this conclusion about Fram filters. Do you go to the dealer and use there oil filter and oil? Bandit
 
The company that I worked for went to Fram because they where cheaper. After the lose of three DT 466's due to oil filter failure they went back to Fleet Guard.
 
I have a Case Sc tractor with a inline fuel filter. last summer I was in the orchealn's store and passed the filters. I thought I would be nice to the old tractor and bought a new Fram inline filter.

Fuel would not flow through the Fram fast enough.Tractor would idle but not pull. I put the ten year old carquest filter back on and the tractor ran fine.
 
(quoted from post at 11:05:04 02/28/15)[b:7eeb932dab] Fram filters have been junk for years.[/b:7eeb932dab] It always amazes me when people try to save a couple bucks on a diesel oil change.
've cut last year a fram a hastings and a wix filter apart just to see if there was any claim to that accusation.
I found no diff in the build and material used between the three.

If Fram was that bad then the company would've gone belly up long ago already.
 
You know that depends a lot on what filter you are useing from Wix. Wix does make differant grades of filters and you can get a cheap filter which most people are wlling to buy or buy their premium filters.
 
I've been using Frams almost exclusively for years, never a problem. I sold off my Scouts a couple of years ago and threw in the six filters I had on the shelf. The kid said he never cared much for Frams, "they clog up" he said. I thought maybe the engine is dirty and the filter is doing a better job. I guess it's like tractors or anything else, love 'em or hate 'em.
 
Hmm.. I've got 600k miles on 2 trucks the wife and I have drove from 98 and 2000 to last year. Both saw store brand oil and mostly fram filters their entire life, as do my fleet of old tractors.

Guess i've been lucky all those hundreds of thousands of miles and 20+ engines..

Could happen. :)
 
One day I wanted to solve the riddle for myself. I dissected 3 filters from different mfgrs. including a Motorcraft FL-1A, Fram PH 8A and a Wix. All were used on diesel engines and had been on the tractors exceeding a year.

All the filters were built differently inside but none showed any sign of decomposition. I paid particular attention to the Fram due to the low marks people give it. It had paper end caps (holding the filter media in place), where the others had metal, but the glue was intact and I had to rip the paper apart to get it to separate from the filter media and then the glue remained attached to both.

I have a Cummins B3.3 NA in my '07 Branson and I use Wix filters on it. Even though Fram makes several levels of filters above the grade that the 8A occupies, I just do it, I guess because of the abundance of WIX usage in the heavy equipment industry.

But my experience is limited and no gauge for any decision making. Just how things work for me.

Mark
 
Unless you called up the Psychic Friends Network, it's a bit premature to blame the Fram filter for whatever ails that engine. Maybe after a thorough teardown you could implicate the filter, but so far you know nothing about that vehicle other than looking at it and listening to it for a few seconds.

I'm not going to hold up Fram as a paragon of quality, but there are millions of vehicles on the road with Fram filters. If they're as bad as you say, the roads should be as littered with dead diesel pickups as an east Texas highway is loaded with dead Armadillos.
What Fram says
 
I will not use Fram oil Filters period, but I will use their air filters.

During college back in the late 1980's and early 1990's I worked at a independent auto parts house that catered to the small pro garages but walkin public could also purchase there too.

We sold Wix filters which is a premium line (Wix supplies NAPA)

Anyway, We had a display that showed every major brand of oil filter cut apart for a small block chevy engine.

The Fram was well a joke. Cardboard ends and glue to hold everything in place. In my experience glue does not do so well in an oil solvent based environment and even worse when you factor in the 185 to 195 degree heat that most motors run at.

Once the glue fails well you do have the flimsy cardboard to hold everything in place. We did cut apart a Fram just to verify for ourselves and we were sadly disappointed.

I will use any brand of oil filter except a Fram that is metal cored in the interior support structure. I will pass on the Fram every time though for an oil filter. Even Supertech oil filters from Walmart used to be okay but they have since started using a plastic grid support structure instead of the metal so I no longer use those either. While the plastic is better than cardboard, I will stick to Wix, NAPA (which is a Wix), Baldwin, Puralotor, AC Delco, etc. I have no issues with Fleetguard either just no easy access to them short of mail order.

Lots of these newer cars require the special cap filter wrench to change the oil. So once I buy that cap wrench to fit the filter I stick with that same brand of filter so my wrench always fits it.

I use Puralotor the most as I can find them anywhere at a decent price from the autoparts store chains that have the best hours for a working man (i.e open late evenings and open on weekends).
 
Mark, I haven't used a bore scope to examine the cylinder wall. However I did quite a number of replacement short blocks. Everyone that I did had a damaged #6 piston. With this condition, the engine makes a very peculiar sound. I don't know if the gentleman in question is going to have me work on the truck. If I do, I will post pictures. Back in the day when I was doing Cummins warranty work, I had to call Cummins, not Chrysler to order parts. Cummins had a hundred thousand mile warranty on the engine. Cummins, the smart people that they are, put some very good people on the warranty phones. I had some interesting conversations with them. Here is what they told me. They said that Cummins raised the oil pressure on their B series engine and informed the oil filter manufacturers of oil filters and that Fram declined at that time to do anything about the issue. Everyone that I did, I had to pull the head and verify the problem. Then Cummins would ship a fitted short block. They specified that I duct tape the oil filter in one of the bores in the block and ship it back to Cummins. When they had a number of engines then they would take them to Fram and make them pay the warranty costs. It is interesting what you posted about the issue from Fram. I would be curious to see if this filter is one of the redesigned filters. I am not anti-Fram filters by the way. I am only commenting on just this situation with the Cummins B series engine.
 
That's what he said.
I use Fleetgauards for that reason. Even on my Isuzu. I can get them through the case dealer for close to the same money as Napa (they buy by the truckload). And for the Cummins I can get them for less money than a Napa of I don't mind it saying "Case" on it.
 
Easy now on the Texas slur. Grin

You forgot to add the fact that most road kill of the sort you see are hugging Lone Star (The National Beer of Texas) longnecks. Ha!

Mark
 
Like I said below. Don't knock the glue or the paper. Both held
just fine in the filter I dissected. But that was their bottom of the
line filter. Their top of the line has whistles and bells you
wouldn't believe existed in Fram filters......exceed the Wix that I
mostly use. Don't take my word for it, look it up for yourself.

Oh and for the list of what companies Wix supplies, Parts Plus is
another user. On Wix built filters, first 2 numbers identify whose
paint is on the filter. The rest of the numbers identify the filter
specs and will be identical across the spectrum of jobbers for a
particular design. So it's not rocket science to go to a parts
jobber and find a filter built by them.

Mark
 
Always amazes me how people will try to save 2.00 on an oil change buy using a cheap oil filter if cummins or any other company recommends a filter why not use it after all there engineers might no a little bit more than bubba at the jiffy lube station .
 

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