Right to Work.

L.Fure

Well-known Member
I'm tired of defending unions when it's clear no one cares, or understands what right to work means.

I say the heck with the unions and all they did for the workers of this country. Let's go back to when there was no unions. We can get rid of minimums wages. Make it a free market and let corporations pay you what they want. We will all work 10 or more hours a day, no overtime pay. We all can work 7 days a week. We can work during all holidays. The heck with training skills to specialty workers. Let's close all government operated schools. Let's end a child's education after 6 years and put them to work. We'll need the extra money, because I doubt the pay scales will favor the worker. Need I say more?
 
All I'll say is this. I was a little leary of it when Michigan became a right to work state,but so far I haven't seen one lick of difference. I don't know that any businesses have come here because of it,and I don't know anybody who's dropped out of the union either.
 
(quoted from post at 23:45:53 02/25/15) How do you think this once great country was built?

Dean

Cheap labor force. Just think what we'll accomplish when we become a cheap labor country again. We'll be able to compete with China.
 
Is this what you call a hissy fit?

My friend, take into account that there are as many different opinions as there are members here. Mostly, it comes down to whose ox is gored.

To those that defend unions, most likely you most likely benefitted from unions. Good for you!

To those that do not support unions, you were most likely injured by unions. I know that I was on multiple occasions.

To you , lfure I say let us have a rational, intelligent, adult discussion. We also need to have tolerance for other folks OPINIONS. Your post amounts to throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Some of the things I have seen from unions are inexcusable and indefensible. We can discuss with facts or we can get all emotional.
 
(quoted from post at 23:52:43 02/25/15) Is this what you call a hissy fit?

My friend, take into account that there are as many different opinions as there are members here. Mostly, it comes down to whose ox is gored.

To those that defend unions, most likely you most likely benefitted from unions. Good for you!

To those that do not support unions, you were most likely injured by unions. I know that I was on multiple occasions.

To you , lfure I say let us have a rational, intelligent, adult discussion. We also need to have tolerance for other folks OPINIONS. Your post amounts to throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Some of the things I have seen from unions are inexcusable and indefensible. We can discuss with facts or we can get all emotional.

Hissy fit or not the baby is going to get thrown out with the bath water. That's the point I'm trying to make.
 
People tend to paint with a broad brush
and think black and white. A state that I
worked in for years is right to work and
has a very strong union presence. I
personally have never belonged to one so I
can't say anything from personal
experience. IMHO all non union is just as
bad as all union, just because in all
reality nothing is always right. Just
because you have a hammer doesn't mean
that every problem is a nail. One of the
great things about this country is the
freedom to choose to belong or not, which
is why I support the right to work idea
since this usually means that non union
workers do not have to pay dues to the
union. I wouldn't ask anyone to pay my NRA
membership because we all benefit from the
work they think they are doing, I wouldn't
ask anyone to pay my campaign donation to
the Democratic party because they think
they are helping us. Just my 2¢
 
Right to work means the unions HAVE to work to get the money from dues. If they can close the shop and just have the money given to them they care less about what happens they have the money anyway.

That's the main thing I have against unions is that they make you pay to be part. If I had to guess over 70% of dues goes to political garbage. Meaning you pay for candidates and bills you maybe don't support personally.
 
The only thing right to work means is you have the right to
work for less. It is befuddling to me how people think they
shouldn't pay their way. It goes right against the nnalert
way of thinking. If you support right to work, you should be
supporting government welfare too. You see, it costs the
unions money to keep their members informed, negotiate with
the company etc... You should pay your fair share for those
services. If you don't want to donate to the political things, you
can get that money back. If you don't want the other union
benefits, you can just be fair shared. If you look at the
stats....strong union states have the overall highest education
levels, standard of living, better health etc... Mississippi and
Louisiana certainly aren't states I would like to follow.
Minnesota is a shining star and is beating up on Wisconsin
and their bumblestuff governor in every economic stat you can
think of. And believe it or not...doing that without oil like North
Dakota.
 
I am in a union and there own literature said for political donations, 95% to democraps and 5% to nnalert.
 
(quoted from post at 17:03:52 02/25/15) The only thing right to work means is you have the right to
work for less. It is befuddling to me how people think they
shouldn't pay their way. It goes right against the nnalert
way of thinking. If you support right to work, you should be
supporting government welfare too. You see, it costs the
unions money to keep their members informed, negotiate with
the company etc... You should pay your fair share for those
services. If you don't want to donate to the political things, you
can get that money back. If you don't want the other union
benefits, you can just be fair shared. If you look at the
stats....strong union states have the overall highest education
levels, standard of living, better health etc... Mississippi and
Louisiana certainly aren't states I would like to follow.
Minnesota is a shining star and is beating up on Wisconsin
and their bumblestuff governor in every economic stat you can
think of. And believe it or not...doing that without oil like North
Dakota.

MN? the land of 10,000 taxes? A shining star? A state with very few, other than tax payer funded union jobs? I live here and know better. Most of the people I know who are under the poverty level are there for one of 2 reasons. The first being the fact that they made poor life decisions mostly regarding education after high school. The other group is mostly too lazy to work.

Rick
 
I read Dean's reply, and he didn't say that there was a greater country than ours, but he in my opinion was correct when he indicated that our nation was once great, which it no longer is as far as I'm concerned. And I might add that it would be easy enough to google search our current president traveling the world and telling the rest of the world that our nation is no more special than any other country. That's not me saying that, that is our current president on record multiple times as having said that, and he is about as pro-union as they come. My job is union. That's just the way it is. I've worked union and non-union jobs. If my current job wasn't union, I wouldn't be the least bit upset by it.

Mark
 
I worked as a union laborer for 33 years.Paid dues every month and at the end of the year I wrote them off on my taxes.Always gotem all back plus some.Money well spent.Was able to buy a new truck when I was ready,paid for a farm, and a lot of other stuff.Retired at 53 and never looked back.I made a good wage and made enough that I could save for the future.


A good example of lower wages is one that several can relate to.Winchester has a plant 4 miles from my house.Several years ago they moved the .22 line to a RTW state.Wages here were around $20.00 an hour and the bullets were $1.50 a box.Now they pay the help maybe $14.00 an hour and the bullets are $5.00 a box.Who faired from that.And the quality is shi#.
 
I hate to get into this but I have several friends that worked in union shops.They would work all the overtime they could get and brought home a huge check which is fine if they worked all that time . They would get rate in 4-5 hours and play cards and goof off for the rest of the shift while on the clock. If a man gets $25 hour and only works half the time he is there the company is putting out $50 a hour . Multiply that by x number of workers and the price of a new pickup is out of reach for many.
 
Why has no one mentioned the fact that the price we all have to pay for services and products are set by the "privaleged" 10%-20% that get $ 35 per hr for digging the hole that the $12 per hr nursery worker sets the tree in? 80-90% of workers out there have no union and no chance of it since their employer won't ever be considered by any union. Simply put, union workers are the only ones that can afford union products. So the Corvette just keeps getting faster and the people with the pinto get screwed. If we are going to have unions for the 20% then the only way this argument will ever end is if everyone works under union conditions/pay scale. Some of the best welders in the world still only get $ 20 an hr simply because their company isn't big enough to draw union attention and even if employees expressed their desire. I f you are not deemed profitable to the union , you won't get their representation. My question...why is it only good for the 20% and how are the other 80% supposed to keep up? The men/women putting food on your tables have no such "representation" or "pension program" and can't even regulate the price of their own products. Apparently food on the table isn't of great concern for union bosses as long as they have their $80- $100,000 > vehicles to drive.
 
I have always stayed out of these discussions and just
amused myself with most of the replys. But as I read this
thread I have a question for everyone. I thought we lived in a
democracy where majority rules. With that being said if
majority vote to be union so be it, but with right to work I
understand if you are in minority you do not have to join.
Which brings me to my next question, if I didn't support or vote
for current administration can I stop paying taxes because isn't
that fair like right to work? Just a thought!
 
So how come you got to retire at 53, while all the non-union guys are still working at 70? Hmmmm? Is that fair? Just bad luck on their part? No, they probably worked harder than you did, but didn't have an "in" to get into a union way back when. As we all know, "union laborer" is pretty much a contradiction in terms. If it wasn't for govment projects, you would have been working with the other stiffs a long time ago.
 
Well said, Tennessee is and has been right to work for a long time. Man wants to work for five bucks and hour that is between he and the guy doing the paying. Folks in Tennessee are certainly not starving and plenty on new plants moving in.
 
No, you need not say more, in fact, you should probably say less. Why is it that the union hacks are always "all or nothing"- either its union labor at $36 per hour plus all the shovel leaning you can stand, or its non-union, with 7 year olds being plucked out of school so they can work 16 hour days for 89 cents an hour, just to keep their little sisters from being sold into white slavery? How about a happy medium- laborers making $20 bucks, which is a living wage, and being satisfied with it? Why do the unions have to keep pushing for more? Just because they can? Where is the equity in that?

Longshoremen (biggest legal crooks on the face of the earth) just "settled" their long-running dispute in the western ports. They were slowing down the work, to the tune of billions of dollars in losses for their customers. They all make more than $50 an hour already, and got raises for the next 3 years. Also got continued full health care paid by the employer, and got their pensions raised from $80,000 per year to $91,000 per year. I've never seen a longshoreman who was more than 2 notches above moron, so why should they make out like that? Do any of the rest of us, regardless of education or ability, get those kind of bennies? And no fair citing their union membership as the reason- they have done nothing to earn it, and to say they can hold you up just because they have a gun and you don't doesn't cut it.

I did have one small moment of payback, years ago. I was working for Farm Credit, and a longshoreman came in with a plan for a hog finishing operation. He was going to feed "spillage" from the grain terminal in Kalama, Washington. I asked "What if there isn't enough spillage?" He laughed and said, "He He, there's always enough spillage. He He." I turned him down on the spot, telling him that I couldn't approve a farming operation that was based on theft. He blustered around, and threatened to go to my superior. I said "Good luck, he's even more honest than me."

Unions had their place at the time, but their time is long since past.
 
(quoted from post at 21:22:24 02/25/15) So how come you got to retire at 53, while all the non-union guys are still working at 70? Hmmmm? Is that fair? Just bad luck on their part? No, they probably worked harder than you did, but didn't have an "in" to get into a union way back when. As we all know, "union laborer" is pretty much a contradiction in terms. If it wasn't for govment projects, you would have been working with the other stiffs a long time ago.

Agree 100%.

Look at GM's Bankruptcy. external_link ignored federal bankruptcy law and not only DIDN'T cancel the UAW contracts, he GAVE them half the company. I (and many others who held GM stocks/bonds) lost a sizable chunk of my retirement funds in that bankruptcy but the UAW was kept whole. And yet, if you talk to a UAW worker at GM, they will whine about their "sacrifices". What have the owners (stockholders) of GM got under the new GM? Nothing, yet the UAW workers just got thousands in profit sharing checks and are STILL complaining.

Do you think the UAW cares that a new pickup truck costs almost as much as a new house and most young guys can't afford one? Nope, biggest bunch of underworked, overpaid, selfish bunch of people I've ever worked with or seen.
 
What a load of nonsense ! Seems your union never
required you to study American history? What the
Unions did to Henry Ford is a classic example of
where your ignorance lies.
 
By the way, using your inane method of "reasoning",
I guess since horses enabled us to open up the west.
we should ban the automobile and only allow horse
travel? Yes, for sure, we need a Union for horses.
 
Ten or more hours a day, no overtime, seven days a week, no real holidays....I'm self employed and that sounds like the story of my life. I'm sure there are others on here in the same boat.

Funny thing is I only charge $65 an hour for SKILLED labor, while there are many union guys out there making nearly as much to hold up a shove, or whatever. That's not to say there aren't skilled Union workers that deserve pay commiserate with their skills there are. However when the village idiot is making as much as I do, as well as getting his health care paid for, and a huge pension....Huston, we have a problem.....
 
It would be nice if we had a happy medium out there but the wedge became larger and wider during the reagan years and haven't changed since. The extremes are the Jimmy Hoffa and the Romneys. But the Koch brothers want even more unrest, so it is not going to change for a long while.

We farmers are peasants for the ADM, Cargill, Monsatan,etc. But our unions are there - like the Farm Bureau who farm the farmer better that anyone.
 
Yep...it is.. Great growth in the economy...great schools...great
environment...great roads that will be kept up...WITHOUT toll
roads by the way...a higher than average minimum wage with
no tip credit to steal from the workers paychecks...it is a great
place to work and do business...and dang, the fishing is the
best to boot!
 
The only union workers I have worked with were lazy,
overpaid, under worked, snivelers - and some are
good friends.
 
No as a matter of fact we do NOT live in a Democracy
we live in a Republic with many rights that cannot be taken away with a simple majority vote.Democracies are really just organized Mob Rule
 
A good union is a great thing, but like all great things, people learn how to abuse the systems.
 
You just described farming for a living hey it ain't so bad(LOL)And I'll bet the average farmer has far more specialty skills than any union fellow just
working for a paycheck with no $$$ invested in his/her job.
 
You are so right. The 40 hour work week was not a management proposal. As far as Unions being corrupt, tell what is'nt. Government, Huge corporations, Fannie Freddie,Banks Chgicago Board of trade, Wall street. Whereever theres a buck theres greed and corruption, And even farmers getting a payout cause there was a drought two years ago. You do your thing and I'll do mine. gobble
 
Worked for a lot of contractors that others didn't want to.Small companies who needed someone able to work by themselves and get it done.

Took all the training courses available. Learned blue prints,took math courses, GPS, Haz Mat, Asbestos abatement etc.

Needed 30 credit hours to retire at 53.1000 hours for a credit.I had 41.

Put raises toward my pension instead of on the check.

Never turned work down.

I spent the last 18 years with the same company.They didn't keep me working because I leaned on a shovel all day.
 

When I was out of High School and out of Apprentice School..
My "Journeyman Iron Worker" pay rate was a whopping $5.20 /Hr...for working Red iron or a Re-Bar job and we figured 10,000# of Re-Bar per man/Day, tied in place..
Worked on every bridge around Cols, Ohio ( I-270) before I got Drafted...
Ron.
 
Only a single US president has union membership anywhere in his background.

You got it: Ronald Reagan.

Dean
 
voting on right to work here in wis now, i thought it ment you had the FREEDOM to decide weather you wanted be a part of a union or not. if you think the union is so great, then belong, if not stay out
 
My exposure to right to work...In 1979 I started to work for a now defunct airline at the Atlanta Ga. airport. The company was unionized, Ga was/is a right to work state. In order for me to keep my job, I had to join the IAM by the end of my 64th day. I joined, the dues came out to be about an hour's pay. When any of the newbies went to shop steward about a concern, his first question was what is your seniority? That experience/exposure killed any respect I thought I had for a union, even though I grew up in a union supported/belonging to household. Years later I was fortunate enough to go to work for a mostly non-union airline and enjoyed my almost 24 years there with no issues.
 
(quoted from post at 18:22:24 02/25/15) So how come you got to retire at 53, while all the non-union guys are still working at 70? Hmmmm? Is that fair? Just bad luck on their part? No, they probably worked harder than you did, but didn't have an "in" to get into a union way back when. As we all know, "union laborer" is pretty much a contradiction in terms. If it wasn't for govment projects, you would have been working with the other stiffs a long time ago.

Well how did I get to retire at 47 and was never a union member?

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 15:36:12 02/25/15) I'm tired of defending unions when it's clear no one cares, or understands what right to work means.

I say the heck with the unions and all they did for the workers of this country. Let's go back to when there was no unions. We can get rid of minimums wages. Make it a free market and let corporations pay you what they want. We will all work 10 or more hours a day, no overtime pay. We all can work 7 days a week. We can work during all holidays. The heck with training skills to specialty workers. Let's close all government operated schools. Let's end a child's education after 6 years and put them to work. We'll need the extra money, because I doubt the pay scales will favor the worker. Need I say more?

Do a little internet research.

1. The unions didn't give us the 40 hour week. Henry Ford did.

2. The unions didn't give us minimum wage. The federal government did in an effort to gain votes.

3. The only things high wages has done is spur inflation because companies increase prices to offset wage increases and drive jobs overseas.

Need I say more??????

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 15:36:12 02/25/15) I'm tired of defending unions when it's clear no one cares, or understands what right to work means.

I say the heck with the unions and all they did for the workers of this country. Let's go back to when there was no unions. We can get rid of minimums wages. Make it a free market and let corporations pay you what they want. We will all work 10 or more hours a day, no overtime pay. We all can work 7 days a week. We can work during all holidays. The heck with training skills to specialty workers. Let's close all government operated schools. Let's end a child's education after 6 years and put them to work. We'll need the extra money, because I doubt the pay scales will favor the worker. Need I say more?

Another thing to look at. I'm supposed to have the right to "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness". It's in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. So if I don't live in right to work state and I'm anti union that means I can't work where I want, violating my liberty. And in other states they have to hire me but force me to pay into the union even though I'm not a member? Again a violation of my liberty and happiness. So that means you want to rewrite the Constitution? What else are you going to deny me and every other American of in that rewrite? Are we supposed to sing "Hail to the King" comrade instead of "Hail to the Chief"?

Rick
 
I don't work for a union but most of the people I've known that work or have worked for one have done very well for themselves. Able to be married, have children they can feed, afford nice homes, cars, and eventually retire with a shred of dignity. Lots of people like to complain about union wages being too high and then turn around and use their shortcomings of their $12 dollar an hour jobs to get a bridge card for groceries, free lunches for their kids at school and a really good deal on some external_linkcare insurance. Companies are just dumping the responsibilities of good wages and benefits on to the government. Now nobody gets married because they can have a live in girlfriend who qualifies for free healthcare and food for the kids while dad goes off to his non union low paying job. At night he comes home and gets on the internet and complains about unions.
 
Small point here Rick but "life liberty and pursuit of happiness" is in the Declaration of Independence.
It is not anywhere in the Constitution or it's ammendments (ie, the bill of rights)
 
10 hours or more per day 7 days a week ? sounds like me for the last forty years and most of the farmers on this board.
 
I know a union electrician and a union heavy
equipment operator. Both had to know someone to
get sponsored, or they wouldn't get in to the
union.

The mayor, as pay back to the unions, got a law
passed that only union electricians can work in
the city. Bubba is not welcome. They actually
fined and took Bubba to court and won.

So, some union jobs work on the good old boy
system. It's who you know. So I can see whey some
people are crying foul, I want to work too and
can't get in to the system.

In defense of the trade unions, my brother was a
heavy equipment operator. He sponsored his two
boy. For the most part, he got all his jobs
through the union hall. Without the union, he
wouldn't have had health insurance and retirement
benefits. I think he had to put so many hours in
or pay so much to keep his benefits. He always
worked enough hours. Some jobs he had to drive a
long way and work from daylight to dark.

And the union made sure the equipment he operated
was safe. The union, unlike some, didn't protect
the lazy. If you couldn't get the job done, you
were sent home. Or the person needing an operator
may request the hard working guys too.

Unlike the teacher's union that protected the
weak teachers and eat the young when there were
layoffs, I can see advantages to the trade
unions. The trade unions where I live also do
drug testing. Before brother retired, he had to
be certified each year to operate equipment.
 
Have a friend that worked at a large university. You could join the union or stay out. They went on strike and my friend worked his job as he was not in the union. The people that walked out called him names thru things at him and his car and treated him like dirt for doing his job, these were people that worked beside him for years. After a few months they settled and went back to work. They got very little for there strike and things were never the same between the people. After it was all over my friend and the others that stayed and did their job got a nice raise.
 
Rick
I may be in error here. Forgive me if I misunderstand. Apples & oranges.
IIRC you retired from the U S Army at 47, with 20 years service. That benefit was spelled out in the contract you signed when you entered, & that is the origin of the handle Old Tanker. With 20 years service in Army, retirement was well deserved.
In the civilian world, MOST contracts offer retirement at the magic 80 or 85, age plus years of service. The key word here is MOST. Contracts may vary.
Willie
 
(quoted from post at 21:35:33 02/25/15) I worked as a union laborer for 33 years.Paid dues every month and at the end of the year I wrote them off on my taxes.Always gotem all back plus some.Money well spent.Was able to buy a new truck when I was ready,paid for a farm, and a lot of other stuff.Retired at 53 and never looked back.I made a good wage and made enough that I could save for the future.


A good example of lower wages is one that several can relate to.Winchester has a plant 4 miles from my house.Several years ago they moved the .22 line to a RTW state.Wages here were around $20.00 an hour and the bullets were $1.50 a box.Now they pay the help maybe $14.00 an hour and the bullets are $5.00 a box.Who faired from that.And the quality is shi#.

The cost of 22 ammo has absolutely nothing to do with unions and RTW.
 
(quoted from post at 22:15:24 02/25/15) I have always stayed out of these discussions and just
amused myself with most of the replys. But as I read this
thread I have a question for everyone. I thought we lived in a
democracy where majority rules. With that being said if
majority vote to be union so be it, but with right to work I
understand if you are in minority you do not have to join.
Which brings me to my next question, if I didn't support or vote
for current administration can I stop paying taxes because isn't
that fair like right to work? Just a thought!

You don't live in a democracy in the US. You live in a REPUBLIC where the rights of the minority are as important as the those of the majority. IN a democracy if 51% of the people wanted to outlaw guns, farming, NASCAR and apple pie...that would be the end of that. In a republic it's not winner take all like in a democracy. So in a sense RTW and unions are both nnalert ideals. Note that's nnalert with a small "r" and nothing to do with the political party.

Now taxes, that's different. That's a law that says you have to pay to support the system depending on how much you make and other issues. Different things.
 
(quoted from post at 05:14:06 02/26/15) Rick
I may be in error here. Forgive me if I misunderstand. Apples & oranges.
IIRC you retired from the U S Army at 47, with 20 years service. That benefit was spelled out in the contract you signed when you entered, & that is the origin of the handle Old Tanker. With 20 years service in Army, retirement was well deserved.
In the civilian world, MOST contracts offer retirement at the magic 80 or 85, age plus years of service. The key word here is MOST. Contracts may vary.
Willie

Nope, I retired from the army at 40 at the end of Jan 96. Went to work out of the Army in 96 and retired for good in 02 in the fall at 47. Good catch though. I wish I could have retired for good at 40 in 96 but 50% of base at 20 years wasn't enough to retire on.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 03:06:02 02/26/15) Small point here Rick but "life liberty and pursuit of happiness" is in the Declaration of Independence.
It is not anywhere in the Constitution or it's ammendments (ie, the bill of rights)

You are correct. But still telling someone they have to join a union or have to pay dues to one to me is way over the line.

Rick
 
Well, it's obvious you are a pro-union hack, so whatever I post will go through your head and won't get slowed down, but....
I put in 8 months at a factory that was unionized. You had the choice becoming union or non-union. I was non-union and, to their credit, the union members didn't really give me any flack about being non-union. The union did NOTHING to help working conditions for anybody. However, I will give them credit for shutting the local factory down because of all the whining and complaining that they did to the national owners.
But, to all the people who say that the union was the one who gave us the 40-hour work week, I regularly put in 60+ hours a week. Matter-of-fact, the last 21 days that I worked there, I had to work 20 of them and every day was a minimum of 12.5 hours, but regularly was 14 hours a day. My wife still refers to this job where I was either at work or sleeping. Wages were not great, so the union was of no help there.
BTW, the job was for the company that has the name of a state and the name of our west coast ocean in it.
I now work for a company that gives me a work truck, buys the gas that I need to drive to and from work, has a family atmosphere, and if needed, I have no problem getting a day off. Oh yea, much to your shock, it's non-union.
 
Well at least your not to tired to poke a hornets nest! I like peanut butter and molasses sandwiches and if you don't like them well, I DON'T CARE! BECAUSE I DO! Nough said.
 
I spent my career in the transport industry, both union & open shop. Procedures in other industries may vary.
There was no join union first, then look for a job. It was get a job first, on your own merits, then near the end of 30 or 60 day probation period, sign up.
In my 40 years in the industry, we never had, or came close to, a strike. One year, think it was 66 or 69, there was a two day lockout. Drivers showed up for work, management closed down. Large contract, about half a million drivers filed for unemployment. Next day phones rang off the wall, report for next regular scheduled shift.
Most people conviently forget that pay scale is a very small part of a contract. Working conditions are important.
A few examples:
Bad equipment- a truck needs a new tire or brake repair. In a union shop the driver is reqiured to refuse to drive it or allow anyone else to drive it. In open shop risk getting fired, some rookie will drive.
New equip- negotiated & agreed to by both sides, does senior driver always get the new rig, the driver who has the rig getting replaced get the new one, or the foreman's favorite brother in law get it.
Choice of assignment- does senior qualified man always get choice, choice go in rotation, or foreman's brother in law.
Overtime- is it offered to senior man first, in rotation, the low man who might be low on hours this month, low man forced out, or the foreman's favorite brother inlaw.
In emergency such as accident or breakdown- who can get things rolling again the quickest, especially in the bus business.
Vacation time off- if some workers have earned more than one week of vacation time, does the senior man pick all his time first, every one ,in rotation, pick a week, then those who have more time off earned pick their second week, or the foreman's brother in law pick all his time first.

The list goes on, would take a week to list everything. It is all negotiated & agreed to, then followed by both sides.
Willie
 
I read through ALL the reply's to this topic. The
one thing I didn't see is the fact that, in a Right-
to-Work State, if a Union represents a shop, the
employees don't have yo join said Union, BUT they
get ANY pay increases and benefits. AND the Union is
REQUIRED to represent them in any dispute, just as
they do a dues paying member. I know many here are
ticked that Illegal Immigrants are given benefits
that others had to work for; How Is a non dues
paying right-to-work fellow different?
 
My other post got a bit long.
Now some benefits of open shop.
At my last job, the travel agents, aka dispatchers, were good to work with. I f they asked for a favor, they always remembered & did one for the driver.
A couple quick examples:
Had a few days off at home, called in for assignment-
Me; got anything today?
Disp; head to shop, call in an hour.
There were half adozen guys at shop, said nothing moving, waiting for somethig with long pay miles. Called anyway.
Me; got anything yet?
Disp; yup, Kansas City for tonight.
Me; give me the numbers.
Next morning, called from K.C.; got anything?
Disp; yup ready now, to Minneapolis, call before 5 pm.
Called at 5
Me; watchya got?
Disp; drop in yard, will have city driver deliver, another K.C. for tomorrow.
Did 3 Kansas City trips, then one to Green Bay Wi. From there did Eau Claire Wi, Bend Or, Portland, San Diego, Los Angeles. Joined the same group that had been waiting in Minneapolis to get some long miles. Had over 4000 more pay miles in the same time than they had.
Another trip.Called in empty rom Los Angeles:
Me; got anything ready to move?
Disp; have Florida, Virginia, Ohio, Oklahoma, Minneapolis, all ready to roll, which one do you want?
Me; like to get home, give me the Minneapolis.
Disp; here's the numbers, bring it in, take a few days off, call when ready to go back out.

Willie
 
Seems real similar to every other union that tries to "encourage" membership. But then again its modeled after the communist party.
 
I was wondering about that 40 hour work week - I'm 47 years old and NEVER held a job in my life based on 40 hours.
 
(quoted from post at 06:30:18 02/26/15) I read through ALL the reply's to this topic. The
one thing I didn't see is the fact that, in a Right-
to-Work State, if a Union represents a shop, the
employees don't have yo join said Union, BUT they
get ANY pay increases and benefits. AND the Union is
REQUIRED to represent them in any dispute, just as
they do a dues paying member. I know many here are
ticked that Illegal Immigrants are given benefits
that others had to work for; How Is a non dues
paying right-to-work fellow different?

Chris, here in MN the non members have to pay too. That was one of the concessions that they had to give the unions to get right to work passed. So the non members are paying. Like I said, 2 nieces, both working in places that have a union, both non members yet they still have to pay. I don't think it's the entire amount, more like 80% but they have to pay. All "right to work" means is that they can't be forced to join nor can they be fired for not joining. The one niece refuses to join based on religious grounds. Don't know why the other one doesn't. I do know if at a family gathering if you want to push their buttons just mention that they pay into a union. Man do the sparks fly! Just be prepared for the lecture on how "unfair" it is. And that is what some states are trying to address and there are several legal actions that have been filed against it. Basically it's the state or federal government forcing people to pay for something that they don't want that is not in the same category as health or car insurance.

Rick
 
Unions did not rescue anyone from the supposed serfdom of capitalism, just the opposite, unions imposed their own form of tyranny on the work force whereby if you choose to belong to a union you are not free to provide for your family, that is the reason ''right to work'' came about to start with.
 
I never quite understood how certain "factions" preached on the subject of how unfair it is to have the beliefs of others forced upon them, yet when they wish to force THEIR beliefs upon someone else, it's their "unalienable right".

I do NOT believe it's in the best interest of the country as a whole, or individual business' trying to compete in a global economy to have a relatively small faction of citizens impose THEIR will on the business. If a person does not like the hiring/employment practices of a certain business, those people are free to market their (alleged) skills elsewhere. I do not see where it is a good practice to let an outside entity "organize" employees into extortion of a business. Where was that group of employees/extortionist's when the business was trying to establish themselves at the inception of the business?
 
You may be please to know that William Kristol,
the conservative pundit/intellectual, who
introduced our country to every brainy Sara Palin
has just admitted that he was wrong decades long
anti-union stance and admitted that without unions
the middle class would not have blossomed during
the'50's.
 
So....Let me get this straight....ONE person admits they might have made a mistake 60+ years ago. That and $.50 will buy you a cup of coffee.
 
Ok, the trend seems to be moving away from unionism. 50-70 yrs ago, the trend was TOWARD unionism. Why the shift? Is it solely greedy CEOs who want to enslave the workforce?

No, I believe it's because the majority of people are realizing what unionism costs them, either in the products they buy or through their tax dollars.

Imagine if every farm was unionized. You'd have a guy who only drives the tractor. If there was nothing that needed to be done that involved the tractor, he'd just sit on it all day long. Plowing going slow and you need him to work past 8 hrs? Better give him 1 hrs notice and he'd get time-and-a-half. Sunday? that's double time. Putting the seed in the seeder? That's a laborer. The tractor driver doesn't do that. Not his job. Something broke? Better call maintenance. The laborer or the tractor driver won't touch it. Is it electrical? Oh, you need the electrician. 3 point broke? Oh, you need a millright for that. Or is it the hydraulic lift on it? That's the pipefitter's job.

This same logic holds for EVERY industry. If EVERYONE was unionized, costs for EVERYTHING would go up.

Plus, Union supporters are quick to espouse how unions are GREAT for the individual worker. So if that's the case why aren't they pushing to have EVERYONE unionized? Why doesn't the cashier at 7-Eleven deserve the same benefits as the UAW worker on the line at Ford? Again, they only apply their sanctimonious logic to certain industries with deep pockets who can be held hostage to the union demands.
 
William Kristol is a neocon, he's even know as the "godfather of neocon". Neocon means RINO or a abundant that wants to be called a nnalert. The fact he's wrong about another thing (in a long line of things that neocons are wrong about) hardly means helps your union arguement.
 
Keep in mind that human nature never, never changes. Many other factors change such as technology,politics,etc but "greed" and "wants" never never change. The merits of each side don't really matter in the big picture. Either side will go to extremes if they have the upper hand, i.e., human nature never changes. So the bottom line is Supply and Demand. In the 40's,50's and 60's there were more job openings than labor available.
Now there are many more people than jobs. Simple eh!
 
You have know idea what you're talking about people who stood up to the robberbarrons were gunned down by private policemen for even talking about uniting together to get better wages and conditions
 
what a load of bull feces.
Right to work? LOL right to hand your money over to Guido.

I worked in a union shop. Our [i:b0b69efbc6]great[/i:b0b69efbc6] union negotiated a contract with a half a percent raise the first year and no raises for 2 years. Told us we should just be happy we have a job...
Could have cared less about wages but by God the pension fund got its nickel a an hour a year raise....
I left that place and went to a non union shop and made the same wages, same or better benefits and a far better retirement plan than the union pension with benefits that kept getting smaller and smaller every year as the national dipped their greedy paws into it.
I got raises every year in that non union shop while the union place I left negotiated another 3 year contract later with no raises for 3 years.

All the unions care about is their dues and their pension plans. They need the money to keep the mob happy and so the guys at national can go on their trips to the Bahamas.
 
Another thing to look at. I'm supposed to have the right to "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness". It's in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. So if I don't live in right to work state and I'm anti union that means I can't work where I want, violating my liberty. And in other states they have to hire me but force me to pay into the union even though I'm not a member? Again a violation of my liberty and happiness. So that means you want to rewrite the Constitution? What else are you going to deny me and every other American of in that rewrite? Are we supposed to sing "Hail to the King" comrade instead of "Hail to the Chief"?

Rick

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is not in the constitution or the bill of rights. It is in the Declaration of Independence.
 
the last 3 lines says it all .. if theunions werenot corrupt and selfish and selfserving ,,.. and ran thingslike a good church run hospital in the 50s ,, then unions could be good ,, hummn ,, health care is probably headed the same way as union thugs
 
(quoted from post at 13:26:01 02/26/15) You have know idea what you're talking about people who stood up to the robberbarrons were gunned down by private policemen for even talking about uniting together to get better wages and conditions

That was then, this is now. That falls under ancient history.


Did the unions do anything? Sure but the organizers didn't put themselves in the line of fire. They found some poor sap to go out there and get shot. Do a little research. It wasn't spontaneous uprisings. Union organizers, who stood to gain by running the union, collecting dues and then paying themselves off the backs of the workers (yea they exploited the workers) promised them the moon, got them to strike and when the company police showed up let them get shot.

Yea they did help make the workplace safer but the 40 hour week and decent wages were put into play, long before the UAW, by Henry Ford. No, not because he was a good man but because it greatly reduced worker turnover/absenteeism thereby making his production lines much more efficient.

Today raising the cost of production as then makes prices go up to cover increased payroll. That in turn drives companies out of business or forces them to outsource to stay competitive. When it applies to companies contracting with the government it cost me and every other tax paying person more money.

For most Americans that means the unions haven't saved one job, kept one company in business or cut the amounts spent by our elected representatives. So tell me how great an organization is that has only cost me money and given me nothing?

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 14:01:15 02/26/15)
Another thing to look at. I'm supposed to have the right to "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness". It's in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. So if I don't live in right to work state and I'm anti union that means I can't work where I want, violating my liberty. And in other states they have to hire me but force me to pay into the union even though I'm not a member? Again a violation of my liberty and happiness. So that means you want to rewrite the Constitution? What else are you going to deny me and every other American of in that rewrite? Are we supposed to sing "Hail to the King" comrade instead of "Hail to the Chief"?

Rick

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is not in the constitution or the bill of rights. It is in the Declaration of Independence.

Sammy, yer late, someone else already pointed that out.

Rick
 
Wow you absolutely amaze me with the one sided information
you have look to more than just what you want to hear from the
right wing pundits
 
(quoted from post at 14:32:44 02/26/15)
Well, well, well, I see I hit a nerve here. I see that Faux knew's has everyone marching in the same direction. No free thinkers here. I hope you guys do vote someone like Scott Walker in as president. You'll get what you deserve.

I had these opinions of the unions LONG before "Faux" ever aired for the first time. Because I bothered to learn about instead of listening to some union hack lie about things.

Believing or disbelieving in the union has nothing to do with being a free thinker. In fact many of the original union organizers were dedicated communist. They don't want anyone being a free thinker. Why do you think when they showed up back in the day to rabble rouse they brought strong armed thugs to beat anyone who might openly disagree or speak out against them? That comment goes with the old "if you can't prove facts use ridicule to win an argument" strategy. That doesn't work with anyone who has facts, not fiction to back them up.

You didn't hit a nerve that I can see. What I see is people who read and look up stuff for themselves refusing to be sucked in by scam artist. We trying to educate the few with blinders on!

Rick
 
Any time someone uses the term Faux we know his argument won't hold water. I watch Fox, CNN, MSNBC and decide for my self.
 
LABOR VS CAPITOL
to anyone who would argue that we are better off without unions or government regulations. I say the fact is that it has been tried. This country has been there done that. what we had was people like j.p morgon, carnage, and Rockefeller at the top. The rest of us living in dirt floor shanty towns hand to mouth. it was not what I would call a success.
Unions fought for and won the 8 hour work day, the 5 day work week, overtime, enforced fire codes, unlocked exits so workers could get out, sick leave. Vacation and eventually osha. STANDARDS that all workers today enjoy and most are too ignorant to know where they came from. The media has always been a tool that capitol uses to point out all the flaws in the labor union. This is propaganda. The union is not a perfect system, neither is the American government. But it is the best we have come up with in the history of the world. It is sad but to get what you need to live you have to fight for it.
 
Back in those days there was a whole lot more violence against people who simply wanted to work, instituted by union thugs, than there ever was the opposite. I am sorry you are unable and incapable of taking care of yourself and your family and making your own way in life but you are not alone. Approximately 50% of the nation no longer accepts responsibility for themselves or their families,like yourself, they choose to whine that life is unfair and elect politicians who vow to steal a larger and larger portion of the productive peoples pie and hand to them, they have found no shortage of politicians eager to oblige.
 
The reason we are the greatest and wealthiest country on earth is because of the freedoms that begat people such as JP Morgan, John D. Rockefeller and many more and allowed them to build wealth and do business. Maybe your ancestors lived in dirt floor shanty towns hand to mouth waiting on someone else to throw them a bone but mine were building farms and ranches and businesses from scratch, working tirelessly for themselves to improve their own lots in life and to give the next generations a head start.
 
(quoted from post at 19:42:56 02/26/15) LABOR VS CAPITOL
to anyone who would argue that we are better off without unions or government regulations. I say the fact is that it has been tried. This country has been there done that. what we had was people like j.p morgon, carnage, and Rockefeller at the top. The rest of us living in dirt floor shanty towns hand to mouth. it was not what I would call a success.
Unions fought for and won the 8 hour work day, the 5 day work week, overtime, enforced fire codes, unlocked exits so workers could get out, sick leave. Vacation and eventually osha. STANDARDS that all workers today enjoy and most are too ignorant to know where they came from. The media has always been a tool that capitol uses to point out all the flaws in the labor union. This is propaganda. The union is not a perfect system, neither is the American government. But it is the best we have come up with in the history of the world. It is sad but to get what you need to live you have to fight for it.

Henry Ford started the 8 hour 5 day work week BEFORE the unions. The Federal government gave the rest of the American people it. They also started minimum wage back in the 30's. It wasn't the unions. Safety standards were also imposed by the government that covered all workplaces. The unions only did things for union shops. Use the internet to do a little research. Amazing what you can find if you stay off the union propaganda pages and look at sites that cover history.

Rick
 
Interesting thread, some good points made for both sides, some facts, some outright wrong information.

Henry Ford was a latecomer to the 8 hour movement. Also his $5 a day was only about $2.50 in wages, the rest was shares of stock & such.
Through sloppy paperwork when a union local that I had been in merged with a larger local, I lost pension credit for 8 years of service. Seems that a provision when I joined got lost in the transfer from paper to computer records, & nobody that could remember it is still alive. Pension at 24 years service would have been about $2000 a month, but with only 16 years credit, I get $250.
Minnesota is not a "right to work " state.
Minimum wage law- Mn raised the minumum rate in 2014 by 25%. A popular reataurant added a 35% "minimum wage raise" surcharge to all food tabs. Reasearch showed that wages were ~40% of total cost, ~20% of his employees were at minimum rate, so the total added cost was 2%, not 35%. The surcharge didn't last long.
Employees have to petition for election to get union representation. Then a majority have to vote to approve it. Also employees can petition for election if they want to decertify a union & join a different union or go open shop.
One poster below retired from a job at age 40, retired from the next job at age 46, but ~15 years later is actively farming trying to earn a comfortable living.
There are benefits and drawbacks to both sides.
Study the facts, make your choice, & go with it.
Willie
 
Way I understand it, the unions just cannot force you to belong.

If they are such a great deal, then workers will willing pay the dues.

I guess it is time for the unions to stop being corrupt, come up with workable plans, and make their union so great that workers will line up to join.

I have a buddy that is a big hunter and shooter. Every year his union sends his union dues to nnalert politicians who work to take away his gun rights, or support environmental whacko's who want to outlaw hunting.

I always had a good job, with good benefits and was never in a union.

My union BIL spends half his time laid off.

I guess it just depends.


Gene
 
IIRC Ford started the $5.00 a day wage and 8 hour day simply because he couldn't get enough people to stand on an assembly line putting nut "A" in hole "B" and working like they cared. He fought unions bitterly, used strike breakers and hired toughs to do his dirty work.

ETA- my bad. I see you covered that earlier.
 

Look, in general terms unions and gov't have made some improvements in wages, worker safety, etc. It's true that some companies would take advantage of workers if they could. It's also true that the union is looking out for the union bosses first and that they are easily corruptible. I've seen that 1st hand in my own union. But no one should be forced to belong to a union or pay union dues if they don't want to. And gov't has gone way too far with the OSHA and EPA causing more problems than they fix. Unions and gov't ARE a big company in their own way and are just as bad and worse than some mainstream businesses out there. That's the problem and that's why right to work and the smaller gov't movement gains traction.
 
(quoted from post at 21:55:05 02/26/15) what a load of bull feces.
Right to work? LOL right to hand your money over to Guido.

All the unions care about is their dues and their pension plans. They need the money to keep the mob happy and so the guys at national can go on their trips to the Bahamas.

They use the pension funds to "invest" in some favored project, usually mob financing, political contribution/payoff (coughDemocratcough) or blow it on "needed operating expenses of the fund". Also the plan growth projections are always way off and don't reflect current real world investment opportunities, so the amount that has to be contributed is always more than is realistic for the promised pension payout that will be way outsized for the salary that was earned. It's this that will break the municipal and state jurisdictions.
 
(quoted from post at 22:32:44 02/26/15)
Well, well, well, I see I hit a nerve here. I see that Faux knew's has everyone marching in the same direction. No free thinkers here. I hope you guys do vote someone like Scott Walker in as president. You'll get what you deserve.

As opposed to getting for the last 6 years what we didn't deserve? Let's hope that the FCC regulation of the internet doesn't lead to too big a tax on it, just to name one thing we are now having to put up with.
 
(quoted from post at 03:04:46 02/27/15) Interesting thread, some good points made for both sides, some facts, some outright wrong information.

Henry Ford was a latecomer to the 8 hour movement. Also his $5 a day was only about $2.50 in wages, the rest was shares of stock & such.
Through sloppy paperwork when a union local that I had been in merged with a larger local, I lost pension credit for 8 years of service. Seems that a provision when I joined got lost in the transfer from paper to computer records, & nobody that could remember it is still alive. Pension at 24 years service would have been about $2000 a month, but with only 16 years credit, I get $250.
Minnesota is not a "right to work " state.
Minimum wage law- Mn raised the minumum rate in 2014 by 25%. A popular reataurant added a 35% "minimum wage raise" surcharge to all food tabs. Reasearch showed that wages were ~40% of total cost, ~20% of his employees were at minimum rate, so the total added cost was 2%, not 35%. The surcharge didn't last long.
Employees have to petition for election to get union representation. Then a majority have to vote to approve it. Also employees can petition for election if they want to decertify a union & join a different union or go open shop.
One poster below retired from a job at age 40, retired from the next job at age 46, but ~15 years later is actively farming trying to earn a comfortable living.
There are benefits and drawbacks to both sides.
Study the facts, make your choice, & go with it.
Willie

Willie, nope I'm farming cause I got bored, had the land and can afford to do so. Not into ice fishing, snowmobiling or traveling. Had to have something to do and me not in the job market helps someone who really needs the job instead of giving me even more play money or building a portfolio. If I don't make a profit I can always quit, rent the land out and take up bird watching or something else.

Last I heard in MN you don't have to join a union to have a job in a union shop? I have 2 nieces who work in union shops, have both been in them a few years and are not union members. That is the definition of right to work or at least used to be. What people are working on now is making it so they don't have to make mandatory contributions to the union when they are not members. Another bunch wants to gut unions by taking their ability to negotiate away.

While I don't believe in unions I also believe that we do and should have freedom of choice. So you and I should be able to work together in the same work place you in the union if you want and me not in the union. And I should not be forced into paying for something I don't want to be a member of as far as I'm concerned.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 15:49:04 02/27/15)
(quoted from post at 03:04:46 02/27/15) Interesting thread, some good points made for both sides, some facts, some outright wrong information.

Henry Ford was a latecomer to the 8 hour movement. Also his $5 a day was only about $2.50 in wages, the rest was shares of stock & such.
Through sloppy paperwork when a union local that I had been in merged with a larger local, I lost pension credit for 8 years of service. Seems that a provision when I joined got lost in the transfer from paper to computer records, & nobody that could remember it is still alive. Pension at 24 years service would have been about $2000 a month, but with only 16 years credit, I get $250.
Minnesota is not a "right to work " state.
Minimum wage law- Mn raised the minumum rate in 2014 by 25%. A popular reataurant added a 35% "minimum wage raise" surcharge to all food tabs. Reasearch showed that wages were ~40% of total cost, ~20% of his employees were at minimum rate, so the total added cost was 2%, not 35%. The surcharge didn't last long.
Employees have to petition for election to get union representation. Then a majority have to vote to approve it. Also employees can petition for election if they want to decertify a union & join a different union or go open shop.
One poster below retired from a job at age 40, retired from the next job at age 46, but ~15 years later is actively farming trying to earn a comfortable living.
There are benefits and drawbacks to both sides.
Study the facts, make your choice, & go with it.
Willie

Willie, nope I'm farming cause I got bored, had the land and can afford to do so. Not into ice fishing, snowmobiling or traveling. Had to have something to do and me not in the job market helps someone who really needs the job instead of giving me even more play money or building a portfolio. If I don't make a profit I can always quit, rent the land out and take up bird watching or something else.

Last I heard in MN you don't have to join a union to have a job in a union shop? I have 2 nieces who work in union shops, have both been in them a few years and are not union members. That is the definition of right to work or at least used to be. What people are working on now is making it so they don't have to make mandatory contributions to the union when they are not members. Another bunch wants to gut unions by taking their ability to negotiate away.

While I don't believe in unions I also believe that we do and should have freedom of choice. So you and I should be able to work together in the same work place you in the union if you want and me not in the union. And I should not be forced into paying for something I don't want to be a member of as far as I'm concerned.

Rick

oldtanker,
Yes, that is sound reasoning. If a worker doesn't want to join a union, or pay dues if he/she isn't a union member that's fine. But here is the problem. If said person doesn't want to join a union, or pay dues, he/she shouldn't expect to get any of the raises or benefits the unions negotiates for. Since act 10 has been put into place no one in the public work force is getting anything. They have gotten a few token bonus checks, but nothing towards their base pay. The work rules that were also negotiated for are being gutted. These are simple rules pertaining to overtime pay, who has to work over time, how vacation time is to be scheduled, even some of the safety rules are being ignored.

I'm really glad I'm retired, but worry about the workers who are still there. Some of you say that if they don't like it there they should move on to another job. What job? There's really nothing to choose from in this area of the state. Plus people find it hard to tear up roots in search of a better job that may not be out there. The other option would be to go on to school. But with the cuts that are going to be made to the university system, an education will be too expensive to obtain. Students that do get an education they leave the state, because there just isn't any jobs for them here. It's all part of the brain drain that has gone on here for so long. That's a separate discussion, so I won't go any further on that subject.

I don't know what the answer to our problems will be. But I do know that the course that the governor is putting us on won't make any improvements to the states economy. If anything it will only make things worse.
 
On Henry, he revolutionized the workforce in that he was smart
enough to realize that if people could afford his T's they could buy
them. So he set the standard of the day which was $5, some twice
the current wage in industry for that reason. The lines formed by
potential employees seeking work would around blocks.

Ref: "Wheels For the World", Henry Ford, his company, and a
century of progress; Douglas Brinkley, 2003
 
I read yesterday that the FCC finally stood up to corporate America
on the internet thing and the little guy won. Course it also said that
CA would fight the decision...yeah.....donations at the PAC might
dry up.

Mark
 
(quoted from post at 05:25:49 02/27/15) IIRC Ford started the $5.00 a day wage and 8 hour day simply because he couldn't get enough people to stand on an assembly line putting nut "A" in hole "B" and working like they cared. He fought unions bitterly, used strike breakers and hired toughs to do his dirty work.

ETA- my bad. I see you covered that earlier.

Completely agree. I said he only did it to increase production by reducing employee absenteeism and turnover. Some pretty good info on him to include a documentary on youtube that really paints him as a jerk. A smart jerk but still a jerk.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 10:50:47 02/27/15)If a worker doesn't want to join a union, or pay dues if he/she isn't a union member that's fine.

You are correct, nobody is forced to join the union, if you dont want to join, no problem-o dont join. But you cant have the job if you dont pay dues. So are you really "not a member"? No, you are a paying member with no say in anything the union says or does. Sounds peachy, dont it. How would you like to live where there is a goverment that you cant have a say in it but you have to pay for it?

(quoted from post at 10:50:47 02/27/15)But here is the problem. If said person doesn't want to join a union, or pay dues, he/she shouldn't expect to get any of the raises or benefits the unions negotiates for.

Thats fair enough and I havent heard a single person that would want or demand that.

(quoted from post at 10:50:47 02/27/15)Since act 10 has been put into place no one in the public work force is getting anything. They have gotten a few token bonus checks, but nothing towards their base pay.

Thats not true. Not true at all. I know there have been at least 2 general wage adjustments and several rounds of merit raises (the unions HATE those). Keep in mind, that is all on the heals of Gov Doyle that promised to fire 10,000 state workers. He stole from the DOT road fund putting the state in the pickle we are in now. Oh, this is a fun one, he implimented furlow days so not only did workers not get a raise, they took a pay CUT. Gov Walker eliminated the furlow days and started giving raises again.

(quoted from post at 10:50:47 02/27/15)The work rules that were also negotiated for are being gutted.

No, hardly. Not even remotely true.

(quoted from post at 10:50:47 02/27/15)
These are simple rules pertaining to overtime pay, who has to work over time, how vacation time is to be scheduled,

There has been a few minor changes but in a nutshell, the changes came from prison guards and police abusing the system where they would agree to work OT but so they still got some time off, took vacation days before or after the OT. Example: Prison guard agrees to work Sat and Sun but so they didnt have to work 12 days straight, they took a vacation day on Friday. That vacation day used to be a days wages and the weekend was OT. Now, since that person took a vacation day and dont have 40 hours WORKED, Saturday would not be at time and a half, it would be straight time. Not a huge deal or big change.

(quoted from post at 10:50:47 02/27/15)even some of the safety rules are being ignored.

BS. There is not a shred of truth to that statement.

(quoted from post at 10:50:47 02/27/15)I'm really glad I'm retired, but worry about the workers who are still there. Some of you say that if they don't like it there they should move on to another job. What job?

Its funny you say it like that... move on to another job but what job. Well you just made a great point for RTW. See, if I want a job but dont want to join a union or pay dues, the raving lunitics are telling me dont join. But to your point, where is a person to go? If I cant take that union job because I dont want to be in or pay money to a union, where am I going to go? See how your argument is really arguing FOR the RTW laws?

(quoted from post at 10:50:47 02/27/15)There's really nothing to choose from in this area of the state. Plus people find it hard to tear up roots in search of a better job that may not be out there.

See, you are again making a point FOR the RTW laws.


(quoted from post at 10:50:47 02/27/15)The other option would be to go on to school. But with the cuts that are going to be made to the university system, an education will be too expensive to obtain.

Maybe the UW system should have thought of that before they were sitting on milliions and millions of dollars in hidden accounts and they tried to RAISE tuition. Not too smart was it? Well, no big deal. The UW is trying to raise the out of state student ratio so even fewer local Wisconsinites can go and they more profitable out of staters can come here and pay full boat tuition.


(quoted from post at 10:50:47 02/27/15)Students that do get an education they leave the state, because there just isn't any jobs for them here. It's all part of the brain drain that has gone on here for so long. That's a separate discussion, so I won't go any further on that subject.

Thats because the UW system is so keen on educating out of state kids. Know what out of state kids do when they graduate? I will tell you what they do.... they go home again. Its not rocket science.

(quoted from post at 10:50:47 02/27/15)I don't know what the answer to our problems will be.

From reading everything you have said in this thread, that painfully obvious. Because of time constraints, I only comented on this single post of yours but its clear you know nothing of whats going on in the union jobs of state workers and have no clue how Act 10 affects people. I get that you dont like Gov Walker, Act 10 and anything that nnalert would be for, even if its as simple as free air and sunshine for everybody, but making up things in an attempt to discredit them really isnt helping your cause.

(quoted from post at 10:50:47 02/27/15)But I do know that the course that the governor is putting us on won't make any improvements to the states economy. If anything it will only make things worse.

Of course you dont know that because its not true. Where do I begin? Taxes are down. Unemployment is down. Wages are up. Building and business is up. Man, I could go on and on but, would it do any good? You have already made up your mind dispite the facts, why try to tell you any different? (that was a serious and real question)
 

Where are you getting your information. I had 28 years of service for the state of Wisconsin. I also keep tabs with my co-workers to see what's been going on. Your information must come directly from the capital. I give up. You just can't fix stupid.
 
(quoted from post at 21:29:54 02/27/15)
Where are you getting your information. I had 28 years of service for the state of Wisconsin. I also keep tabs with my co-workers to see what's been going on. Your information must come directly from the capital. I give up. You just can't fix stupid.

There is nothing I said that is incorrect, its all true and a matter of public record. If you are not smart enough to look it up, I cant help that. If your former coworkers are regurgitating union propoganda to you, I cant help you with that either. If you refuse to see the truth because of your political bias, there is nothing I can do about that.

I have no intention of trying to fix you, if you are stupid, thats your problem. All Im doing is setting the record straight about Wisconsin for others reading. You are entitled to your opinions but you cant make up your own facts.

We can see your political bias and no matter what good Gov Walker does, you will be against it. You have proven that you will go to any length in an attempt to discredit Gov Walker, including telling some libelous stories. Thats fine, have at it but dont expect a free pass like you have gotten to date.
 
lfure

You sure been trying to get everyone mad at Walker. From what I've seen on here not only have you failed, you've convinced many that should Walker run for president he's the guy to vote for! You should get in touch with him, maybe you can work on his campaign!

You seem to have also failed to change anyone's mind about the unions.

So the question is what are you going to do for round 3?

Rick
 
So you have been a parasite on the Wisconsin taxpayers most
of your adult life, 28 years on the payroll and now a pension?
So what do you have to whinge about? I sure hope Scott
Walker runs because he will become President Walker, people
are sick of subsidizing do nothing's.
 
(quoted from post at 18:57:40 02/27/15)
(quoted from post at 05:25:49 02/27/15) IIRC Ford started the $5.00 a day wage and 8 hour day simply because he couldn't get enough people to stand on an assembly line putting nut "A" in hole "B" and working like they cared. He fought unions bitterly, used strike breakers and hired toughs to do his dirty work.

ETA- my bad. I see you covered that earlier.

Completely agree. I said he only did it to increase production by reducing employee absenteeism and turnover. Some pretty good info on him to include a documentary on youtube that really paints him as a jerk. A smart jerk but still a jerk.

Rick

Yeah, I saw the big PBS documentary on Ford and have read a couple books. Those were different times and people don't realize what Ford expected for his $5.00. A bit of a jerk, very true. But Ford was nothing compared to Edison! That guy was no different than the big robber barons of the the old west, or the oligarchs of Russia today.
 
(quoted from post at 08:46:14 02/28/15)
(quoted from post at 18:57:40 02/27/15)
(quoted from post at 05:25:49 02/27/15) IIRC Ford started the $5.00 a day wage and 8 hour day simply because he couldn't get enough people to stand on an assembly line putting nut "A" in hole "B" and working like they cared. He fought unions bitterly, used strike breakers and hired toughs to do his dirty work.

ETA- my bad. I see you covered that earlier.

Completely agree. I said he only did it to increase production by reducing employee absenteeism and turnover. Some pretty good info on him to include a documentary on youtube that really paints him as a jerk. A smart jerk but still a jerk.

Rick

Yeah, I saw the big PBS documentary on Ford and have read a couple books. Those were different times and people don't realize what Ford expected for his $5.00. A bit of a jerk, very true. But Ford was nothing compared to Edison! That guy was no different than the big robber barons of the the old west, or the oligarchs of Russia today.
ouldn't expect anything different from PBS! :x
 

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