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'60-'70 best all around tractor

A

Al Baker(pumpman)

Member
I am going to open a can of worms here, but thats the fun of this forum. From 1960 to 1970 in the popular 85-105 hp range what would you vote as the best built tractor? But you must have GOOD reason why. Not just because thats what we had, but something that really stands out for you. I would vote the 1850 Oliver diesel with FWD. In their day they were a mean old horse. Sure maybe not on today's standards, but in 1968 she was a lot of muscle.I do love the John Deere 4020. I own 2 4020s I love them so much, but pound for pound that 1850 I had would drag them, or most any other tractor of that time backwards. Perkins diesel easy on fuel. Started good in the winter. Come on guys tell me your ideas.
 
Well I will list three and you can chose the one you like based on your color preference.

JD 4020, Oliver 1850, IH 856

All basically the same size and very dependable tractors that are still in use today.

A funny thing I noticed is that two of the very common brands of tractors of the 40s and 50s are not usually considered in the tops list in the 60s and 70s. Those companies are Ford and Ferguson/MF. This is in the 80-100 hp market.
 
Early to mid 60s Ford only had its 6000 as it BIG horse. I have one of these also, love it to death, but it sure got some bad press in its day.
 
I say 4020 because of the power shift. I could put my 110 pound wife, or kid on there, and they could operate the "clutch", shift, and PTO with ease.
 
The 6000 was only 60 hp, wasn't it?

Dad needed the 60 hp pto and a very slow gear, so the 6000 was all he could find at the time.

As for bad press, yes. Dad had one of the first ones. JUNK, FORD even gave him the new blue model. Most of the problems was with the SOS. I think if they broke down today, you may be SOL, So On Lucky finding parts and someone to fix it.

I'm trying to think, who made a 100 hp tractor in the 60's? I remember some farmers connecting 2 tractors together to get more hp.

Yes, it a can of worms to ask what is the best all around tractor. I would say the best tractor is one that runs good, you can get parts for, if you can't repair it, finding a dealer that can and it's paid for. And with dealerships closing good luck. I have to drive 40 miles to CNH.
 
My vote is for an IH 856. Rugged, reliable and useful. Big enough for hard work, and can still be used for light work as well. Mine has a M&W turbo on it and I think it is good on fuel. I don't do heavy tillage with it just hay.

Each brand had their good ones that people will say. Just like cows. No person has all the good ones, and no person has all the poor ones. Everyone has some of each.

When they are running they are all good.
 
Yep, according to sales, satisfaction, and popularity, the John Deere 4020 is easily the winner. (Now that oughta bring out some comments...).
 
I'll have to vote with Bruce...930 and 1030 Case.
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a182966.jpg
 
John Deere had over 100 hp with their 5010. Too big for most around here but they sold a few. Case 1030 was advertised as over 100 hp. I think most companies were close or over the 100 hp mark by the late sixties. 1206 International. AC D21.
My personal pick would be the late 930 Case but only because I had one. Hard to find a better all round tractor from that era than the 30-4020 JD. They were everywhere and there are still some working here.
 
It's pretty hard to go wrong with either a 4020, 1850, or 856. If I had to choose I would go with the 4020 side console synchro diesel. A day like today around here with 3 foot snow drifts would make me tempted to want the 1850 w/ MFWD along with the 3 speed over/ under from the last production year. It certainly would get the 200 bushel manure spreader where it needed to go and if it had to grind feed the grinder mixer would be no issue going up the driveway. Do we really have to choose just one? Honorable mention to the MM G1000.
 
You didn't put in the important qualification, in their original form or with todays improvements. The ih ta was a huge problem originally, so was the jd engine. If you include 1970 the you have to include the case 70 series which clearly out class any of the others mentioned so far. The case 930/1030 were also great tractors for their time and would out work the 856, 4020, or 1850, but were not as good in other ways..
 
I think it was 72-73. I was new at an AC dealer in late 72', and the 200 appeared about the same time. First tractor we sold with a factory cab, and first tractor over $10,000.
 
"The ih ta was a huge problem originally, so was the jd engine."

What in the WORLD was wrong with 4020 engines that put them in a league with IH TA's???
 
Broken pistons and head gaskets if you pulled them hard. Today they hold up pretty good because they are baler and planter tractors, but hang 5-16's on one and they were problems. Jd folks consider it a badge of honor to claim their tractors engine is "updated" to a newer version. No other brand does that, but they still claim they're great engines. And that's not even considering the extra fuel it takes to run one.
 
4020 and 856. I'll take your word on the 1850 since I have never been around one. I'll still put the 4020/856 over the Oliver for today due to better parts support. And I don't get were this love is coming from for the Case 930. The newer 930 might have been okay but the old style was outdated.
 
(quoted from post at 21:15:25 02/15/15) "The ih ta was a huge problem originally, so was the jd engine."

What in the WORLD was wrong with 4020 engines that put them in a league with IH TA's???
Click to expand...

Nothing. We must have had a special 4020. Grandpa bought new in 1964 and it left farm in the mide 80s after about 8,000 hrs. Engine never was overhauled and yes we used it for heavy tillage for about the first 6,000 hrs. Everybody that bought a 4020 back then must have only baled hay with them. I also think the TA problems is slightly overblown. I have IH 1256 with over 5,000 hrs and TA has yet to be replaced.
 
As per the Neb tests, the 5010 had 108 drawbar horsepower and the 1030 came in at 92. PTO was right around 100 hp for the 1030. Most 5010s were updated with 5020 engines back in the day. Lot of 5010/20s around here and a lot of Case 930s. But very few of the 1030s. I only know one guy that has experience on them and he said the first run had axle problems. Don't know if there is any truth to that though?
 
(quoted from post at 18:50:16 02/15/15) I am going to open a can of worms here, but thats the fun of this forum. From 1960 to 1970 in the popular 85-105 hp range what would you vote as the best built tractor? But you must have GOOD reason why. Not just because thats what we had, but something that really stands out for you. I would vote the 1850 Oliver diesel with FWD. In their day they were a mean old horse. Sure maybe not on today's standards, but in 1968 she was a lot of muscle.I do love the John Deere 4020. I own 2 4020s I love them so much, but pound for pound that 1850 I had would drag them, or most any other tractor of that time backwards. Perkins diesel easy on fuel. Started good in the winter. Come on guys tell me your ideas.
Click to expand...

John Deere came out with the most innovation with their new generation tractors. Hydrostatic power steering, power brakes, best weight to horse power ratio, high pressure hydraulics, and a operators platform anyone could operate from. That's just the innovations that come to the top of my mind. All other tractor manufactures had to scramble to catch up to the new generation tractors after they came out. (1960 on) I hate to admit this, since I'm a diehard Case fan, but you have to give the devil his due. Whichever tractor company you root for, look at what they put out in 1960, and how many years it took to put out anything comparable to the new generation tractors.
 
Oliver 1800 B. We had one so might be biased. Pulled 5 plows like a stuck pig. Had 12 forward speeds w/ hydra-power shift and least 5 were in the heavy tillage range. Heavy frame tractor. The straight 6 engine was exceptionally well-balanced to run 2000 rpm smoothly. Torque seemed to kick in down at 1600 rpm to power thru tough spots. Factory stock. No mechanical trouble. In that era that tractor had a certified hp sticker on the hood. It had all the horses stated and more straight out the factory door.
 
Ive always been partial to the G900 - G950 MMs. I do agree the 1850s were a hard one to beat. They had partial power shift and tilt steering. Something lacking on a lot of other brands. Also from what I have heard the MM G1000 was the first over 100hp row crop tractor. A lot of decent JDs IHs and Case tractors from the late 1960s out there in the 85-105 hp range as well.
 
lol ,,.. that's what happened here ,deer does desrve honorable mention .. lol , I always expected case to win out , because most of us case guys have the hardest heads.. lol
 
I differ with Jon on that too,there were too many 4010s and 4020s around running M&W Turbos with 125-130HP and some with owner only running 160-170HP pulling 6-16s over 3-4000 acres a yr.with none of the problems Jon speaks of.Plus no trans.-rear end problems that others were having(Case included- rear ends).
 
Well since the early 930 was made when the 830 jd were made I don't think they were any more outdated than those are.
 
(quoted from post at 16:43:32 02/15/15) 5 minutes of search found these 3.


I give up what does your photos prove? Just because an engine has a head gasket replaced doesn't indicate chronic problems especially with limited history on the tractor previous hrs & operation.
Click to expand...
 
Except the old 930 was made into the mid 60s. The old style 930 was a glorified 500. Good tractor but outdated.
 
Guess I am not seeing your point because God forbid there are 50 year old tractors out there that have had some engine work done. Keep using something it will wear out.
 
Grew up on 1965 4020 powershift diesel bulletproof tractor wasour workhorse for 10 years plowed everything then on 600 acres no problems. 856 great tractor the neighbor had two of them they were a little harder to operate but a great tractor
 
Some more research that jd may be the most updated engine ever. Everyone overhauls their engines when worn out, and every brand has their problem engines,but john deeres are the ones that need to be updated to newer models for better economy and reliability.
a182986.jpg

a182987.jpg

a182988.jpg
 
I know a lot of people liked the 4020 JD and I guess they did have their place. I had one and traded it for a 1030 Case.For me that was a good trade. I would put a 930 Case or 856 IH ahead of a 4020 for most work.
 
I have a 1105 Massey and a 1850 Oliver and a 4020 Jd. Now I like all three, but the 4020 comes in last, the thing leaks hyd oil like a sieve all the time, fix a line or the pump from leaking and it isn't long and it is leaking some other place, the 3020 and 2020 are the same way, seems never ending. I love the 1850 and 1105, easy starting and good all around tractors, the shifting is a little frustrating on the 1105 some times, I have a 2705 with the 8 speed and love the cab and shifting, has a shuttle trans, good for baling, and strong hydraulics. The 1850 is easy to operate easy to fix and just down right dependable. I like my Masseys and Olivers.
 
JD 4020. If John Deere could have built more there would have been more of them. Hydrostatic power steering that didn't creep.(who else figured that out) Power brakes you never adjusted, Hyd that will still run a new planter. Wheels you can adjust without a jack.Resale? The list goes on. And we never had one.
 
(quoted from post at 17:20:18 02/15/15) Some more research that jd may be the most updated engine ever. Everyone overhauls their engines when worn out, and every brand has their problem engines,but john deeres are the ones that need to be updated to newer models for better economy and reliability.

KEEP GRASPING!!
While you're doing all your research why don't you research "update kits" for over the road truck engines. I guess truck engines in your opinion have no inherit problems.
Click to expand...
 
Don't want to necessarily jump on the bash JD bandwagon, but it needs to be said that part of the 1960s popularity for JD models is the green crowd were starved for a modern 4 cylinder design for so many years, well...decades really, since the teens or 20s. When the 4 cylinders finally arrived, everyone wanted one regardless the quality. Lucky for JD they did a good job with the 4010/4020 because their whole tractor future was riding on it.
 
Lol, I don't know where you got this idea, but it's
not right. And what does it have to do with 60's
tractors?
 
You asked for different options, so here goes...

Compared to tractors of other eras, you could say that most of the 80 to 100 HP tractors of late 1960's era are notable for their uniformity just as much as their differences. They were almost all competitively equipped with the same modern features and were quite reliable if well maintained and used as intended.

Those tractors almost all had:
catagory 1 & 2 three point hitch;
draft control;
live PTO;
power steering;
good brakes;
high pressure hydraulics;
six cylinder non-turbocharged engines that could only be economically turned up by an extra 20 percent max;
eight speed transmissions with some sort of optional shift on the go;
open station or an uncomfortable cab.
and were built to last 10,000+ hours.

If they were properly maintained and used as intended, they almost all held up pretty well until they were replaced by larger tractors in the 1970's. Many of those tractors did have problems after someone added a turbocharger or LP-gas injection for the power of a larger tractor and weighted them to pull wider implements. Dealers often took these hard used machines as trade-ins, removed the add-ons and resold the tractors to unsuspecting buyers.
 
Just the opposite is true. Sales of the New Generation tractors were actually lower in the early 60s then sales of the 2 cylinders in the late 50s. JD matched and overtook IH in tractor sales in the late 50s during a couple different years. There is speculation part of it was due to JD guys guessing (correctly) that the 2 cylinder was going to be dropped and so the attitude was to buy one before they are gone.
 
I don't get it either. I don't know too many people who would not take the opportunity to update a 30 to 50 year old engine when it came time to overhaul. I bet if AC, IH, and Case were still around making tractors they would be offering updated engines too. Seems like installing Cummins engines in Olivers and Whites are becoming more common. Were the original engines in those tractors bad? I have a neighbor who just swapped out the original Cummins 855 in their 1971 Big Bud for a N14. Does that make the original engine crap. No, they just wanted more hp, better fuel economy, and better starting.
 
IMHO, the WORST feature of the TA was the need for a $$$$$$ double split of the tractor every time one acted up.

The (similar in principle) quad-range 2-speeds on the 30 and newer Deeres occasionally screw up, but at least can be fished out of the back of the bellhousing with just ONE split!
 
The 4010 and 4020 were well engineered designs that set the stage for the next thirty-plus years of John Deere's success in the industry. They weren't perfect, but nothing ever is. What company hasn't improved efficiency and reliability since the 1960s??
 
I guess only rich farmers had 5010. I really don't remember seeing them where I lived. I really can't remember very much from the 60's either.
 
I 2 CALL BS WHAT ENGINE UPDATE. Are you speaking of 381 to 404 on the early 4020.. LOL and all you D___ IH guys don't put 1206 pumps on 856 and talk about up grades if it wasn't for IH m&w would not have been a business..NOW ROLL ON BIG RED CASE/IH/FORD/NEWHOLLAND/Massey all CNH TRACTORS
 
Well of course, case included. But if you are going to compare tractors, is it as they came from the factory or the New and improved versions. It would change the way most folks rate some makes and models. There is no doubt that the Ih TA was a problem, but the aftermarket companies have mostly fixed that now and they are very durable and useful now. So an 856 today is a much better tractor than it was then. Same for the 4010/20 engines, the updated ones are better. The case 930 has few if any updates available, same with the 1850. So my point in the whole thing was that factory original they all had good and bad, but over all were very similar. Today with the updates to the ih and jd they would fair better in a comparison especially against the case.
 
They luckily pulled their behind out of the fire with the new generation tractors. If they would have hung on to the two cylinder design a few more years they might not have been anymore. I wonder what a 4wd tractor would have been like with a two cylinder engine. Bet it would ride rough lol.
 
(quoted from post at 18:42:10 02/15/15) Lol, I don't know where you got this idea, but it's
not right. And what does it have to do with 60's
tractors?
Click to expand...

Jon
Nothing with tractors but a lot with engine UPDATES. If you think updating tractor engines is bad then I suppose you'd only buy a truck with engine type that had never,ever had any updates announced?????????????
 
I never said updating an engine was bad. What I said
was that in their original form the jd engines
weren't that great. If they were there would be no
use updating them. You take any of the others
mentioned and they might get updated for more hp,
but you won't gain much as far as reliability or
fuel economy, but that's why they do it with the jd
engines. And as I said, I was just wondering which
we were comparing. If the comparison is strictly as
they came from the factory then altho they each have
their good and bad points, they are all fairly even
over all. But with the improvements to both the Jd
engines and Ih ta, both of those would be much
better tractors today and would have more advantages
over the case and oliver which have few if any
updates available. I can readily admit that the
case, which I'm most familiar with, has flaws, it's
the green and red guys who seem to have problems
acknowledging that their color is not perfect.
 
I like olivers too, but how much gas will that burn pulling that? Drove a case 830 gas once and with a heavy load it would like the gas. In my area jd 4010/20 and ih 706 and 806 gas are fairly common and popular for chore tractors, but not for heavy work.
 
(quoted from post at 10:17:39 02/16/15) I never said updating an engine was bad. What I said
was that in their original form the jd engines
weren't that great. If they were there would be no
use updating them. You take any of the others
mentioned and they might get updated for more hp,
but you won't gain much as far as reliability or
fuel economy, but that's why they do it with the jd
engines.
Click to expand...

I'l bet you can't come up with any "real facts" to back up your JD engine update accusations. The ads you posted don't have any reliability FACTS. Just so you know not that I really care I own several different colors(brands) of tractors & equip. including JD,Ford,Kubota,Vermeer,H&S,etc.

What brand engine does your truck have????
 
You know, your right, all those adds and discussions about updating jd engines are all part of my over active and overused imagination. And all those bays in all those jd dealerships that are full of jd tractors are not repairs as I assumed, but just pre delivery setups and clean ups of traded units, not repairs as a casual passer by would assume. I'm sorry for even considering that the Great Green could be anything but the worlds finnest.


My truck, as most on here know, is a 2014 Volvo with a Volvo 11 litre engine. My last truck was a 2005 International with a Cummins ISX engine that I sold with just a smidge under a million miles. The Cummins needed a new turbo when I sold it and I had replaced 1 or 2 injectors prior to that. Both have had several updates because they were not perfect from the factory, unlike the jd engines that are perfect in every way. I just wish they made a jd truck so I could buy one that was perfect.
 
(quoted from post at 11:38:38 02/16/15)

You know, your right, all those adds and discussions about updating jd engines are all part of my over active and overused imagination

My truck, as most on here know, is a 2014 Volvo with a Volvo 11 litre engine. My last truck was a 2005 International with a Cummins ISX engine that I sold with just a smidge under a million miles.
Click to expand...

As I stated those ads you refer to don't contain FACTS.

I doubt that most YT members know or really care what engine your truck but if both your truck engines have had UPDATES how that any different from JD engines getting updates??
 

It's not different, your the one crabby because they need it, not me. I agree that an updated jd engine is better than a non-updated jd engine.
 
(quoted from post at 13:22:51 02/16/15)
It's not different, your the one crabby because they need it, not me. I agree that an updated jd engine is better than a non-updated jd engine.
Click to expand...

Asking you to document your BS with facts is long way from being crabby. It's not my fault all you can do is produce BS but no facts!! I'm sure an updated Volvo engine is better than it originally was also.
I hope you drive safely in your dream world,Jim
 
Oh it burns tons of gas. That's why it holds 100 and some gallons! But in 1968, who cared! Seriously, it does start great in the winter and has loads of power. I think someone messed with mine, it dyno'd at 112hp I think and made the 4020 boys cry. I don't use the set up pictured anymore, but pulling that field cultivator or big disc put a big ole flame out the stack at night. I used to really enjoy that.
 
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