Bryce

What's the scoop on the 400 Diesel?

Actually it is turning out to be an odd story!

Today a man came to my place to buy a 1949 Farmall C, he came from Helena Montana, which is about 7 hours away. He is a very strong IH collector, and is always looking to expand!

I told him I was on the trail of a 400 Diesel, and he just blurted out "not that $1500 one on Craig's List?"

Why yes?! He chuckled, and said that he had been e-mailing and calling this mystery seller for over a year, has still never gotten a response. I too have e-mailed twice, and called 5 times, just says that the voice mail box is empty?!?!

So, either it is a scam, or the tractor is gone, or???

Have however started looking at another possibility. A Ford 901 Diesel... Looks like it could be a very nice tractor, and having the 3 point would be VERY good. Also a little newer, wide front, diesel, etc.

However, I have been VERY afraid to act on this one, all because of the transmission... They are a HUGE PITA to try to fix... Neighbor has a 4000, and IF you can find the part for it, it is still a very hard fix... Not sure what to think of this one, might have to try to talk to the guy...

Would be a very nice tractor to have though... Would think that it would easily pull 3x16 huh??
Ford 901

The SOS trans is obsolete.Run!!Parts are nearly impossible to find.If it were a 4 or 5 speed,they are nearly bullet proof.No,it will not pull 3x16.2x16,yes. Really depends on your 'dirt'.That is a 172 Ci motor.Approxamately 40 horse. However a 'good' M will easily out work it.Other than that,they are nice,handy little tractors.Neighbor has one.......

Bryce The 901 is the series. This tractor is either a 971 or a 981. The 971 is single speed PTO and the 981 has a two speed PTO.

The Select-o-speed can be expensive to work on. He is HIGH for the condition of the tractor. It is a diesel, with a wide front end, and power steering. These are all desirable options but it is not an easy tractor to fix like the others you have been working with. The transmission is truly the fore runner of the modern power shift transmissions.

I would advice you to keep looking. This one could easily be over your budget and skill level of this time. Not meaning to insult you there but these SOS transmissions are far from simple.

Didn't realize that they were that weak?! I am staying away from the SOS... If the price were right, and I was guaranteed that it was an easy fix, maybe. Would be a great tractor for me if it had a 2 stick tranny or something like that, but the sos just isn't worth the heart ache!

Oh I know it, there is a reason that the neighbors 4000 has been in the shop for 6 years, and it isn't because the fuel tank is dry!

We have tried everything that the 4 of us could think of to fix that beast, and we never could make it work like it was supposed to... After all of the bs we had to go through on that thing, I am VERY leery of them... I think that you are right, should keep looking and waiting for an M....

Have another trick up my sleeve to find an M... Know an old boy that has 2, and might be willing to part with one...

Can an M be bored out to a Super M? Or is too much? Different engine all together?

BTW...The neighbor's tractor was a SOS.The trans failed.They looked (unsuccesfully) for 2 years to locate parts.They finally installed a 5speed from an 800.Said it cast $2000 parts/labor before they wrew done.They owned this tractor for over 30 years

Am M is 3 7/8 bore(248);SM/400 is 4" bore(264);450 is 4 1/8" bore(281). They are (essentially) the same engine.It is common practice to put 4 1/8" pistons/sleeves in an M.My SM has had 4 1/8" pistons for 30 years.Cranking almost 60 horse. Those big pistons really 'wake' em up.What I really want to do...Install a 'Keystone Turbo' on the 'super'.At around $1800., its a bit out of reach.

I have seen those turbos! WOW!

So in theory, I could boost this one up quite a bit...

Here is another M on Craigs List. Looks to be in pretty good shape.. E-mailed him a few days ago just to test the waters, will see what he has to say... Good ways away for me though...
Farmall M

I always stay way from a SOS. but as to the plow question my rule is 15hp per 14in bottom and 20hp per 16. yes you could pull them with less but if i put a 3x16 on a 52hp tractor it will pull it in ideal conditions but add ANY slope and its a no go. and the first wet spot same thing. but 60hp i can pull a 3x16 all day. my ford 4000 was 3cyl gas with a 4 spd trans with the high low I could cover a lot of ground even in less than ideal conditions.

Too high. Let it go.If you were closer,I have a nonrunning SMTA i Would sell you for $500 or so.Last M I bought was $800.3pt/wide front.

I don't know how to edit a post

but i meant to add that i pulled a 3x14 on my 4000

Keystone is claiming 70 to 80 horse just with the turbo.That is pretty incredible! I have no reason to doubt that claim.

(quoted from post at 22:15:46 02/04/15) I have seen those turbos! WOW!

So in theory, I could boost this one up quite a bit...

Here is another M on Craigs List. Looks to be in pretty good shape.. E-mailed him a few days ago just to test the waters, will see what he has to say... Good ways away for me though...
Farmall M

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Better grab this one....you could drive it home.
http://spokane.craigslist.org/grd/4849162274.html

Here in our furrow irrigated ground,we figure 25-30 hp per bottom!.Yep,an 8N ford is one bottom;M is 2 bottom;706,3020/4020...is 3 bottom.1256,1066,4430....4 bottoms.

I have very tough clay soil. The 960 pulled a 2-16 nice with fluid in the rear tires. It would not pull the 3-16.

Dad pulled the 3-16 with an Oliver 88 with lots of weight on the rear tires.

Folks in lighter soils often add a bottom more than what we are able to pull.......

Dad was sacred of SOS tinny back in the 70s; surprised everyone else is so negative, typically here people say how nice a tranny they are, often its just a band needs adjustment, etc....

Sounds like you have good experience with them, that would be a fun tractor to set in a corner of the shop and work on see how it goes if it were half the asking price.

Paul

Bryce, they had a bad reputation because the first series of the select-0-speed was released prematurely. The later series of the transmission was quite reliable, I had a '64 4000 S-0-S when I was quite a bit younger than you are now. It did everything on this farm. Cut, rake, bale hay, snow removal with a front mount hydraulic blade, manure spreader, small tillage for the garden, had a ford rotary mower that I used every year to mow fields not in use. Independent PTO and power steering, also had one set of remotes. The tractor for its size was very capable, and you had a gear for about any need, given there are 10 speeds forward, and 2 in reverse. This tractor was formerly a NYS thruway tractor, used for mowing along the highway, it had a mid mount sickle mower on it which we eventually stopped using and removed. It handled a 532 ford baler and lamco hay wagons on the hills and flats around here. Properly maintained, they were every bit as reliable as the manual transmission offered in the same tractor, and I can attest to that because I spent a lot of time on one. The demise of ours was due to a friend of my fathers who rented our place for a show, decide to service it and its believed he may have used the wrong fluid. I'm actually not sure what he did, but I was on the tractor when it stopped moving and I sure was ticked because it was the only tractor we had at the time and all the activity we used it for then stopped.

We sold them new in thousand series with no regrets, we had 2 mechanics in our shop that knew these from the beginning, we had all the books, bulletins and so on from Ford. I personally don't recall ever knowing as much in detail about them, but the huge diagram of one that hung on the wall near the parts counter certainly demonstrated that it is a bit complicated.

Today, they are obsolete, and the people like our mechanics who knew these and could take them apart and repair them, are mostly gone. You should check on the Ford forum, I am not sure who or where there are any people who have the experience and knowledge to work on these. Its been said that parts support has faded to obscurity, I don't know it for fact, but they are obsolete, shamefully too, because there are a lot of them out there, but understood, given obsolescence and with so many other options, the only market would be old tractor collectors and users. The market must not be lucrative enough to pursue obsolete parts manufacture, though there has been discussion on one part, a filter, being developed for manufacture, again, refer to the Ford forum.

I disagree with Delta Red, (sorry Steve LOL!) slightly, the 5 speed trans on the '00, '01 series are not bullet proof, they wear with use and one problem that comes to mind is they slip out of gear. The repairs may or may not be simple, detent ball is one that is, the rest require going a lot further and the parts support for the 5 speed has faded as well, or so I am led to believe. I own one and it slips out of gear in 1st, 2nd 3rd, maybe 4th, though mine has a zillion hours on it before I even owned it. 4 speed may have more support and you can add an auxillary transmission to it, only drawback is PTO speed when using it. Mostly a repeat of information posted here by others, but that's the reality of it in simple terms.

S-0-S tractors today, they are out there and many are still in operating condition, I would not hesitate to buy one, that proves the transmission to be in correct working order. You can ask over on the ford forum on how to deal with one that does work, not sure how you can determine its condition, but with maintenance, proper adjustments, its very possible you can get a lot of hours out of one, (maybe not full time daily use for 10 years but..). You have many tractors and one of these set up for a limited purpose each season, stands a good chance of performing. No you don't want to overpay for one of these and you do want to walk away from any that are overpriced, not running, can't be tested out etc. Well unless you are buying a parts tractor.

By no means were these weak or did not perform. One year my father got it stuck on the first round in our alfalfa field with lush growth. The 535 mower conditioner was on it. Our farmer/neighbor came over and pulled it out and did some cutting with it before he brought a much larger JD and NH mower conditioner over, as my father ran out of time, so he would cut and bale for us. He told me that silly old ford out cut his rig, and our mower had left some skips, so it needed some work on the sickle. He said, besides that, it did a great job in that thick alfalfa, this field has lots of moisture and grows nice crops. Of course something was off on his, he went back, needed some adjustments, but he was a long time experienced dairyman, he knew this equipment as well as anyone, was hard to believe what he said about how it performed. It did the same work as well as what he had, which was newer and likely a lot better than what we had. And of course it does not change what they are but..... LOL ! You should be able to find more information on the ford forum if its ever needed, Tony Jacobs who pops in from time to time reminds me of the 2 brothers we had as mechanics in regards to knowledge on these era ford tractors, he's extremely knowledgeable and has a lot of obscure technical information. His story is interesting having a connection to an old dealership and retaining all kinds of useful information and knowledge on these, I'm not sure specifically about S-0-S transmissions, but I know from speaking with him in person he knows these tractors quite well, and is a very capable mechanic on same.

You cant use Super M sleeves in an M, unless you bore the block to accept them. You can, however, get a 4" sleeve and piston set, "overbore kit", that are for an M. My Dads M is pushing 65hp and it had a good many hours on it. I can only imagine what the numbers would be if it was a fresh engine.

no good,,,,if you want a Ford dont get a select o speed,,,, dont even go look at it,,,

Select o speeds are not as bad as a lot of people think. We've got 13 of them and they are very handy. The red tractors do have some things that could go wrong that the later ones didn't. I would say it is high though for what it is. What is wrong with your friends 4000? Sometimes it is just the disk in the flywheel or the splines on the shaft. There are parts out there if a person really needs them

yeah the soil where you are is a lot different then central Indiana. my family used to farm in Elpaso county out around Calhan. When my grandpa moved here 12 years ago he swore that my 3 bottom plow was going to need a good 70 hp to pull. Big difference in Colorado soil vs Indiana!!

(quoted from post at 05:57:18 02/05/15) Didn't realize that they were that weak?!

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It's not a weak transmission, it's just hard to work on and parts are hard to get now. We used one hard for years in a 6000 Commander diesel in the early 70s and the only issue we had was a bad seal between the tranny and the rear end.