IH and JD tractors.

JD Seller

Well-known Member
In Bryce's post below he is trading for an IH "H" tractor. There where 391,227 of them made and the shipping weight was 3800 lbs. So it would be heavier than his little Oliver crawler as he has weight it.

What I found humorous is how many told him how great a IH "H" was as far as a tractor. I always thought they where under powered (24 hp) and geared way too high for much practical farm work. They did make a fairly good tractor for the hay rake. In just about any type of field work they where not great at all.

Now you could say the IH "M" was a great tractor as they did have many more uses. There where 270,140 of them made and with the additional HP (36 hp)they were a much more handy all around farm tractor.

They both lacked a factory three point and that limited there use in many places. I know there are after market three point hitches available but that is not a full three point in that you do not have draft control for plow work.

Now here is the thing that may surprise some of you after reading all of this and knowing I run mostly JD stuff. I would rather run a IH H or M over the JD tractors of the same age. The hand clutch is just a MAJOR PAIN!!!!

I started out farming with a JD "G" as my only tractor. Try working on that KILLER for 12-16 hours working ground and tell me how great that hand clutch is. Try backing a wagon into a barn with a hand clutch and a road gear reverse.

JD did not make a tractor worth having on the farm to work with until the new Generation tractors in 1960. Even then the 3010 and 4010 where the only really good one of that lot. The 1010 and 2010 where not reliable and the 5010 had engine issues and was as heavy boat anchor at factory HP.

If IH management had been even close to as good as their equipment was they would have been the "BIG" boy on the block still today.

The New Generation/30 series JD tractors leaped JD ahead of IH right when IH started having serious money and management troubles.

Jump ahead to today when many of the tractors of yesterday are just hobby and collector tractors. The IH "H" and "M" are just not high value tractors as there where too many made and many still survived. Then add in the lack of three point and power steering not being common it makes them not be attractive to many in the tractor market of today. Now the IH "H" usually sells the same as the IH "M" because many like them being lighter so they can haul them easier.

I see IH "M" and "H" sell privately and at auctions. They are usually in that $1000-2000 price range if running. Even fancy trailer queens rarely break $2500 now.

So just my random thoughts on some OLD IRON.
 
I see a lot of posts where people say they would never own a tractor unless it had power steering , three point hitch and live power. We farmed 80 acres for 30 years with none of those options. We did basically have a tractor for each piece of equipment though. The Massey 33 we got later with the live power was appreciated for baling. Just saying it can be done if needed the old fashioned way. Bill
 
JD Seller, That hand clutch is what I liked about them, Had a 38 A, 46 B, 49 B, 50 AR and a 51 A, Still wish I had all of them. And those things you call a tractor, the 3010 and 4010 are what made me decide I would NEVER own one of the new generation tractors. To me they are pure junk. I went to Ford when needed someting bigger than the A. 2 4100 65 & 68 and a 68 5100. And I worked many a acre with a 41 Farmal H and never had any complaints about power. Also farmed with a Ford NAA, Ferguson 30.
 
JD, I have worked with all of them in the field at one time or another and probably the best running one of all was the WD series Allis. But I would not have one of the SOBs on my place. If you think the G was something, spend 12 plus hrs. a day sprawled out on the most uncomfortable tractor ever built!
 
That is one thing I love aboot this country, people can have difference of opinions and not get hauled off to Guantamal..
The reason I like the two cylinder JDs is the hand clutch and the put put, at the end of the day running a JD there wasn't a roaring in your ears that one would get from other brand of tractors.
 
I agree with what you are saying. Both had good points and drawbacks.

One thing that helps the old H's and M's maintain relevance is that the frame rails and axle configuration make it relatively simple to adapt various loaders, saws, three points and you-name-it to the the machine. Then being cheap enough you can build on something specialized, leave it on and use it for that one job.

I know a collector who has a LOT of 2 cylinder and New Gen JD, nice stuff, unusual stuff. He keeps all that nice stuff in nice buildings. He also has one shed with a couple of Red tractors. The Red ones are not as fixed up or clean but have loader/blade/etc on them. He says he collects the Green ones because they have more monetary value and when he needs a tractor to use he gets out one of the Red ones.
 
My dad tried a JD 60 for awhile I hated the thing,thought I had died and gone to Heaven when he traded it for an Oliver 77.I wouldn't let you drop a Farmall H off at my place if I had to run it.
 
Dad's father had health issues that made him prefer a tractor that had a foot clutch and and a seat that allowed his feet to position something close to what he would do if sitting in the house. This eliminated the Deere 2 cylinders, MM, AC, and Case. Subsequently he bought or priced IH and Oliver. He felt the 9N was too small for his PTO power needs. Mom's father had a Farmall H, JD 70, and a 3010 diesel but he died when I was real young so I don't know how those came to be. There were a number of Deere 2 cylinders within 5 miles back in the day so the local Deere dealer had a good rapport with quite a number of farmers.

Deere gradually became the preferred brand here due to good support by the dealer and the corporation. I like IH products as evidenced by my handle and this had and still has a number of IH pieces here. I never felt I was caught in the middle of a big feud by liking products of both. Of course there were times that the area dealer of either would make us mad and shop the other brand but time healed our wounds.
The tractors I would most like to collect are either JD or IH. Including but not limited to:
4020 SC diesel
3010 diesel (grandpa's if it could be found)
JD 70
JD 630
JD A
JD 4850
IH H
IH Super M
IH 300 or 400
IH 806 diesel
IH 1066
Of course there are a number of Oliver's and MM's I would not mind having among other makes. Since I saw the pick here I would like having a 5200 Ford diesel with mounted corn picker.
 
I have an H because it was my dad's. It is very handy for raking hay and moving wagons around the yard, but not big enough for serious work. I really like the new generation Deere's, but they are a generation newer than the letter series IH.
 

While in high school I milked cows for a friends older brother. He had two 4020s,one Farmall M, and a 60 JD. We used the 4020s for everything on the farm. Down the road was a farmer who farmed with all mini moes. About my senior year the farmer down the road bought his first 4020. After he had it awhile we asked him how he liked his new green tractor? He told us that in all the years he farmed he never owned a tractor. He said he had these yellow things you could pull a wagon around with, but never a tractor. He sure was happy with that JD, and bought more of them in later years.
 
The jd A was my favorite tractor growing up, we had 2 tractors back in the day, the A and the 64 4000 ford. The ford had a 2 stage clutch, pto to halfway up, last half was transmission. The angle of the lever made it extremely difficult for me at a young age to have a controlled release of the clutch, so it would either stall or be trying to pull a wheelie. And the ford was tricky to start. (Until we converted to 12 volt) the A would always start if it could roll over (and still will) love that sound too. Pure tourque, 321 cubic inches and under 1,000 rpm under load full throttle. Yeah it does drink the fuel a bit, but i still enjoy firing it up and using it when it can be used. Dad always said theres 2 tractors you cant wear out. The A doesnt run fast enough and the allis (wd series) will beat you to death first...
 
We had Olivers then later a 4430. Dad and Grandpa
both would tell you the OLIVER was the better
green tractor.
 
Hey JD, I know what your saying about the G hand clutch. I was raking hay with my dads G and a 4 bar 3 point JD rake on side hill when the pin broke and the rake was trying to climb rear tire while I was jerking on the clutch lever. I was a skinny 12 year old kid at the time had both hands on it, ye ha. Greg
 
My favorite old girl is a plain H I've had for 10 years. It dyno's at 35hp which I know makes it not act like a "normal" H. Another 10hp helps a lot. And it drives and stops like a dream. Bought it and a M from the same guys sale when he passed. I liked this guys style. M dyno's at 53hp. What do you think did to them?
 
Dad had a Ih 706 and grandpa Tom had a 3020. Neither tractor was prefect. The 3pt on the IH would not go low enough. If the implement sank in the ground. We had to jack the implement up or dig holes for the rear wheels on the 706 to lower the tractor to hook up.

The 3020 had the opposite problem.The 3pt would not raise high enough. Grandpa Tom had to cross a rail road to get to his south quarter. We had to be very careful with his 4 row lister. The shovels would hang up on the rails when crossing.A few times grandpa would transport the lister with his 970 case.Then switch to the 3020 after crossing the tracks. Grandpa was old school. Said you can't list or cultivate with a cab tractor.

The 706 would lift our 6 row planter a good ten inches off the ground.Never had a problem crossing R&R.

I could name a few other problems with both tractors.

We also had a JD A and a farmall M. The Farmall was a better all around tractor than the A.
 
My neighbor started farming with H Farmalls. When I was a kid the 4020 and 856, later the 4430 and 1066 did the tillage, and the Hs planted and sprayed 1000 acres of soybeans and wheat every year with a 494 (later 1240) planter and a trip-lift B drill. That was in the days before no-till when wheat stubble was moldboard plowed for double crop beans. I would just like to have a penny for every acre those "worthless, underpowered, awkward" Hs, plowed, disked, cultivated, raked, mowed, baled, harvested and hauled from 1939 until now. People around here collect 2-poppers and USE Farmalls.
 
I grew up using foot clutch tractors. I now have both foot and hand clutch tractors. There are some jobs that I find that a hand clutch is better or just as good as a foot clutch.
 
Ive got a JD A and a IH M both '52 models they each have their strong points as well as some weak points. They both give me that "at home" feeling when I drive them!
 
Couldn't agree more.

I personally don't like the hand clutch for working with, and I think that it is touchy, toooo touchy.

I also think that the IH/Farmall Tractors are MUCH easier to work on, and operate, but I love any old tractor to have as a restoration! :)

I am excited to have this H. It will pull a 2 x 14 very easily, my 10 foot disc, seed drill, and should tote my NH 68 around well!

I think that it will be the perfect tractor for me here in North ID. Keep in mind, the biggest field around here is 15-20 acres! And even those are rare... Bryce
 
We farmed with a M and a 10-20 Then the M and a super H. then the Super H and A 350U (still have those) Uncle had Plain H tractors. We farmed about 150. The Hs pulled 2-14, the M and SH 2-16 the 350 3-14. Yellow clay. Cultivating and hay were no real issue with an H. (self powered balers) I plowed for a neighbor using a G JD and was a sore boy for a day or two. That JD did a series of small wheelies almost every time the clutch was engaged. Jim
 
I never ran a 4020 til I moved out here. Its not a 966 but it's the Handiest tractor around. Told the boss I'd use it for everything if I could get away with it. But I still want a 1066 that runs like the one we had when we milked cows.
And JD are slow. 18 in the 4840 20 in the 4430 and 50. 1066 runs circles around them.
Would hate to have to road a d19 or 190 anywhere around here.
 
I always get a kick out of guys bashing the hand clutch on a JD when in fact most of the other makes made tractors with hand clutches including IH. I have IH with 3 hand clutches. Figure that one out. I can see them being a pain in the butt doing loader work or were you are hitching/unhitching wagons a lot but out in the field what's so hard about the hand clutch? The JD had the advantage of being a 100 times easier to service and replace vs every one else.

The 5010 might have been a boat anchor but who else had a tractor that big in 1962. That's right nobody. There were a few issues one of them being the oil pan was too small. But I know of several that ran fine for a while until they were updated into 5020s. JD had a program to replace the engine in 5010s with 5020 engines.

The Farmall H in the first 4 gears had 2 1/2, 3 3/8, 4 1/8, and 5 1/8 mph. That is almost identical to the JD A and B. I don't see what kind of farm work you can't do in those gears. How slow do you want to go??
 
Another thing to add, is that JD's added Live Hydraulics very late in production, they were all PTO drive pumps.

Farmalls on the other hand had engine driven pumps starting on the H's and M's, my C is awesome with live hydraulics.

I can live with dependent PTO, but it is very had to get stuff done without live hydraulics.... Imagine a Ford 8N with live hydraulics! :)

Bryce
 
Guess you never did any farm work with the B JD try to back a wagon with hand clutch and hard steering even culivate ect BTDT. What other brands and models had hand clutches.
 
Curious, when did IH come out with hydraulics on the H/M. Our 1949 M doesn't have any. The JD A/B didn't have live hydraulics but JD offered a governor mounted pump that took care of that problem. My GM has one of those.
 
I thought that they always had them? My 1949 C does, and I know that all A's B's and C's did... I guess I just figured that the H and M did to? Maybe? Hopefully someone will know for sure! Bryce
 
Bryce The factory hydraulic on a IH "H" and a "M" where a belly pump that is driven off the PTO shaft that passes through the pump/reservoir.

There where kits to put a hydraulic pump in between the distributor and the timing gear to have live hydraulics. The hydraulic control on the IH "H" your getting will be just a rod with a loop on the end. You pull up on it to control the hydraulic flow to a cylinder. IF I remember correctly they where single acting too. Meaning they just power up and gravity down.

You should check this out if your planning to use a wheel disk behind that IH "H".

The top picture is of a standard IH "H" look at the rod running down to a lever under the starter on the right side. That is the hydraulic control lever. There is a two valve kit that can be mounted there but it is still not "live"

The bottom picture is of a IH Super "H" with a live hydraulic kit installed on it. The Super part does not make it come with "live" hydraulics. It could have been an option by then but was not standard.
a180668.jpg

a180669.jpg
 
I'll have to check my neighbor's B but I am pretty sure it doesn't have hydraulics either. I thought the A/B used an exhaust lift. And the Super A and C used hydraulics. My super AV has hydraulics. The first tractor in our neighborhood with any hydraulics was our neighbors 1946 JD A they bought new. Wasn't live like you said but it was better then what we had which were long levers.
 
In todays world the H and M sized tractors of that era are about worthless. If you can find implements like cultivators or a plow they are wore out and some parts are NLA. In my area I know of no one doing any work other than playing in a garden with an H and of the 3 people with M's none use them much. I have one that is now regulated to hay wagons only. It may get used on the square baler this year but only for about 5 acres. Guy near me has one that stays hooked to his poo spreader year round. He keeps it because it's the tractor he started with. The other guy tries to cut and bale about 20 acres each year. He generally gets about 5 acres cut when it breaks down and he has a friend finish it for him. Heck we got guys around here who use small tractors for "yard tractors". Those are like the 856 IH in size or larger. Out west of me guys are running 150HP MFW "yard" tractors.

In their day the H's and M's were good tractors. Those guys who plow a lot of ground with them often worked sun up to sun down and later to get done. guy could still do it if they wanted to. Most of us like to relax in the evenings so bigger is better.

Rick
 
Right on! Thanks for the In-fo-mation! :)

So, that means that the PTO has to be on for the H's hydraulics to work. Good to know!!

I don't have anything that needs hydraulics, except for a JD No.5 Mower, but that could be hand lift as well, and come to think of it, I have a 1 way cylinder for it anyway! :)

Can't think of anything else I have that needs hydraulics.... Wish I could!!!! :)

Bryce
 
Given a choice of tractors of that era, I prefer an Oliver 77 over either a JD A or an IH M. Live PTO, live dual hydraulics, six speeds, standard fenders and a more comfortable springed seat are things I like about a 77. I think the purchase price of a 77 with hydraulics was higher than either an A or an M though.
 
No doubt Oliver and Cockshutt had the most advanced tractors. But I will give a nod to the Case 500 as nobody had a wheatland tractor with a direct start 6 cylinder diesel engine with live hydraulics, live PTO, and power steering.
 
JD Seller i am 66 yrs old, first tractor i learned to plow with was farmall H. dad bought it new in 1947 pulled 2-14s all day long in 3rd gear. It was the largest tractor on the farm till 1965 then dad bought a used 1957 oliver super 77. first tractor on dads farm was a 1940 farmall A that his dad bought new it pulled 2-12s in 2nd gear. All 3 of these tractors were great.I still have all 3, oliver used for pulling now. We later bought a jd 730 diesel best tractor ever on fuel, later a 830 case diesel both of these were great tractors too. JD i respect your thoughts on the old iron, thanks Kenny
 
Bryce I do not think the hydraulics can be turned off. They just are driven off of the transmission input shaft. SO the PTO can be off but the clutch still needs to be out.

I made an error in saying the PTO shaft ran through the pump when it is actually the transmission input shaft. IIC. LOL
 
This topic is real interesting. Not going to say "I would not have that tractor on the place", because growing up any tractor I got to drive besides the ones dad had was a new experience. The WD that dad had was the only tractor we had for 5 years and it got the shi! worked out of it. Then come the F-20 and then the M Farmall, as we rented more ground and needed bigger tractors. My little butt spent a lot of hours on that WD as a kid mowing hay and plowing corn.
 
The pump is engaged and disengaged by that lever. 3 positions. Out engages pump opens valve to lift. Center disengaged pump closes valve. In opens valve to lower.
The lever is pulled and locked out when a Christmas tree valve is installed.
 
It's easy to set up the belly pump on an H/M for a two-way cylinder. You only have pressure on one side but it works fine for a disc or any heavy thing that doesn't require down pressure beyond its own weight. The pumps are simple and very robust. They run off the front of the countershaft
in the transmission. The pump runs any time the clutch is engaged but only builds pressure when you pull the rod back.

As you've noticed, the small farmalls got the live hyd. first in the late 40's. The H/M size not until '53 with the "Stage 2" Super M/H. Even then the belly pump was still an option but most you find had the live hyd.
 
The Oliver Standard 88 my Gramps had came close. 6 cylinder diesel, live hydraulics and live pto. No power steering but we are talking 1948. But to make up for it, it did have a foot clutch, good independent brakes, 6 speed forward, 2 reverse, easy to climb on and off, great visibility, a comfortable seat and good looks. Way ahead of anything red or green at the time for sure.
 
Sorry to disagree with some, we all can't agree on everything, but I still think the Farmall H is still the ideal start-up small-time tractor for the starting guy, just starting to plow, disc, bush-hog. It is STILL the ideal. And for good reasons. They are sitting out there everywhere, they made 390,000+ of them, parts are everywhere, on eBay and every tractor farm supply store, and the dealers can still either have parts sitting on the shelf, or get them quick. They are pretty cheap to get. For a few thousand bucks you;re in business. You just stick a 3-point on there, and go. Just personal, but they seem very handy, easy to work.
Where would I finds parts for an Oliver??? An AC??? No idea.
 
He tended almost 800 acres of soybeans and some years he didn't double crop. We had about 200 acres of tomatoes and cukes most years back then.He spent a LOT of seat time on that H. We had 2 super AVs that didn't get cold all summer, too.
 
Believe me, I'm not knocking the 2 bangers. I love them. I'd just rather spend the day on an H or M. Actually, I'd rather spend it on an Oliver. I love WD Allises, too, but you'll never hear me call.one comfortable.
 
Have an M and I do not see what the big deal about them is. We had one or two when I was growing up but they were never the focus of my attention.
Never had an H but my best friend had one and it would barely pull a loaded chopper box.
Loved my 756 and 826 and still have a 656 that is great though

As a teen I did a lot of field work on 2 cylinder JD's. Had a G, 720, and a 730D.
Actually running for 12 hours with a disc behind a G ain't too bad, you shouldn't be putzing with the clutch a lot anyway.
As for backing up, well, you learned to do it and it became second nature, never really bothered me too much and I liked having the brake pedals under each foot instead of both on the same side.

Haven't had too many problems riding a WD for a day either, just have to find new ways to sprawl out. And I never rode one till I was in my 40's.


Have never really used much 3 point stuff in all the years I've been on the farm so that isn't a big selling point for me.
 
My dad started farming with JD. We had lots of them, Bs, As, Gs, and a couple of 60s and 70s. Somewhere around 1980, he got an IH "H" from a neighbor. I overhauled it and the best thing about the tractor was the road gear. It was nice to take bale trailers to the field or on our other farm that was about 6 miles away with the IH "H" because of the road gear.
It now sits in the shed with a buzz saw on it, once again used to get somewhere with a quicker speed than the JD tractors that we had.
 
There are still a few H and M tractor out there
working, still earning their keep after 60 or 70
years. I read somewhere that the company figured
the life of one when built was suppose to be
around ten years or so.

I came by a field of string beans this past late
summer and an old H was out there powering the
irrigation, it did it all late summer and fall

I guess if they had built them to last 60 or 70
years they would out last the sun
 
I have the H Farmall that my daddy bought new after the war. 1945 model. About 5 years ago I changed it from rust back to Farmall red and put decals on. It looks good now and runs good. It still has the same whine in the transmission that has been there a lot of years. And after sandblasting and cleaning, I have a few damp gaskets but no drips. I don't use it much , but I do use it from time to time. Nothing like the sound of an H or M if you grew up with them Tommy
 
Don't kid yourself. There are so many sources of aftermarket parts for Olivers,not to mention Agco Heritage parts,I dumped every Deere I had and replaced them with Olivers and a White because I could get parts for them faster than I could for a Deere. When I overhauled an Oliver 1600,I called an Agco dealer in Ohio at 2:30 in the afternoon,all the parts were here on the UPS truck at 11:20 the next morning. All there,nothing missing or back ordered. The last ten years I had Deere's around here,I NEVER had anything for any of them in less than two days. I finally went to buying aftermarket parts for those,but last time,when I needed a water pump for one,even that got back ordered from an aftermarket supplier.
 
Have a jd 720,60,and an A. All get about100 hrs. seat time a year. Have bigger, more modern tractors to use, just don't like to rake hay, pull haystack or other small jobs with 130 hp tractor. Running these tractors is enjoyable to me and part of the reason I farm. Neighbors have 2 or 3 New big tractors, banker told him it's more effient. Banker doesn't have to stop ,unhook hookup, 2 or 3 times a day when busy. On a side note, getting real tired of all the hype in farm media about GPS, autotrack etc . If you don't like to drive your farm equipment, move over and let somebody else who does take over. Just my 2cents worth thanks
 
The whole hand clutch thing is exactly why I'd jump on my grandpa's 430 over my parents 60 when hay season came. The 60 ran the baler better, but easing into a gob with a hand clutch is no fun.
 
You're right..any of them in any color beat the he!! out of looking at a pair of mules a$$es all day
 
I think most are overlooking that the aftermarket add ons were plentiful for Farmalls.
Pistons to boost HP,live hyd, and power steering. Were the most common.
 
The only reason for a 3 point is a back blade, even a pull type brush hog is better than a 3 point.
 
(quoted from post at 07:06:47 01/25/15) The only reason for a 3 point is a back blade, even a pull type brush hog is better than a 3 point.

Really? I plow with a 5 bottom JD semi mount plow. I also use a smaller tractor with 3 point all the time. Post auger is one plus a lot of others. I prefer my 3 point brush cutter to my trailer type.

Rick
 
Another thing that is a selling point for me to get a Farmall over a Deere, is shifting.

I will use my 1952 Super C and 1947 JD B as examples:

The B, pulling something or not, can just barely be shifted on the go, have to stop, and then work the engine REALLY hard to get a load back moving in road gear again, and then if you are going up a hill and start running out of power, you had better hope like he!! that thing has good brakes!!!

The SC, I use ALL the time, that is my Go-To tractor, it will do anything I have asked it, even drug my dads dead GM up to the shop (touch and go to say the least)

But when I hook onto something, I can start out in first, go 2 or 3 feet, bump into 2nd, 4 or 5 feet, jump up into 3rd, 10 feet max speed, and then drop it into 4th, and I am rolling! Can't do that with a JD, or any hand clutch that I know of?

It is VERY clear that we all have different opinions, but her is another, my mother. I am not saying it would ever happen, but should I pinch myself, flop something ontop of me, etc, she needs to be able to run stuff. I have taught her how to manage my back hoe, but she can't start it.

I know for a fact, that if it was a life and death situation, I would be dead before she ever got to me with a hand clutch...... I have seen her try, not hap-nen! She loves my Farmall C, and is a very good drive at it (first clutch SHE ever drove!) so I know that an H/M would be close enough that she could get it figured out, IF she could keep her head on straight.

Just thoughts, we all have them...
 
Had no more problems backing a wagon with any Deere with a hand clutch than the Farmall H or Ford 2N or NAA or Ferguson to 30. When I was either 14 or 15 told Dad was taking over the unstyled 38 Deere A with hand lift 2 row cultivators instead of the Ford. Also had 2 row cultivators on both a 46 B and 49 B but power lift, later 4 row cultivators on that 49 B and a 51 A. No power steering and did not miss it.
 
(quoted from post at 03:14:52 01/25/15) Sorry to disagree with some, we all can't agree on everything, but I still think the Farmall H is still the ideal start-up small-time tractor for the starting guy, just starting to plow, disc, bush-hog. It is STILL the ideal. And for good reasons. They are sitting out there everywhere, they made 390,000+ of them, parts are everywhere, on eBay and every tractor farm supply store, and the dealers can still either have parts sitting on the shelf, or get them quick. They are pretty cheap to get. For a few thousand bucks you;re in business. You just stick a 3-point on there, and go. Just personal, but they seem very handy, easy to work.
Where would I finds parts for an Oliver??? An AC??? No idea.

Finding Oliver and AC parts is hit and miss depending on your closest AGCO dealt. RRLUND has a good dealer near him where as the dealer near me is terrible. Here an H is 800 to 1 K. Then 750 or so for an aftermarket 3 point with no draft control. Makes em pretty worthless for most operations even startup. Here the farmers market guys are into the Fords and TO MF's. Very nice draft control and implements are easy to come by. A fella here had an H, aftermarket 3 point, WFE, trip loader. Good rubber, tire chains, good paint. Took him almost a year to sell it for 1500. I can stick a for sale sign on a so so 8N and get 1500 for just the tractor in about 2 days or less. The H will pull better with the little extra power and weight but unless you have money to dump into a 3 point implements are about nonexistent. Most got sent to China years ago. For what a guy can get a 300/350 for why mess with an H?

Rick
 
If it did that then the plow was not hooked correctly. Had a Moline U that I could not keep the front end down on, that tractor left after 2 months. That drawbar was made so high with no adjustment that we could find it could not be used with a baler as the drawbar was so high the pickup of the baler would not touch the ground.
 
Bryce, if that hand clutch is to touchy then it is not adjusted correctly. Just one castulation on one bolt off will do that. If adjusted correctly they are very smooth and not touchy.
 
Hydrolicks were an extra cost option on all Farmalls from the F series up and all the Deere A B G tractors from 35, the G 37 as first year for that model, till end of production, the D never had hydrolicks from factory. I think that govener mounted pump first became avaible with the first AR in 50 to have hydrolicks. Earlier AR did not have hydrolicks.
 
The A, B & C never had hydrolicks from factory, the super series did and they could probably have been added to the earlier tractors.
 
What year was that A? it had to be a pressed steel frame model to compair to the M, the angle frame models compaired more to the H.
 
If you had a 3 point rake on a G then you were where you should have never been, It was NOT supposed to EVER carry something like that. Supprised you could keep front wheels on ground at any time. It was complete irresponsibility to ever try to mount a 3 pt rake on that tractor.
 
The first tractor my grandfather and father owned was a Fordson. Pop said the thing was a piece of crap...................But it sure beat the heck outta staring at the back side of a team of horses all day. Pop despised the Ford 2n/8n tractors. Said they were next to worthless. Still, he said, given a choice between a 2n/8n and a team of horses, they were worth twenty teams of horses.

My grandfather and I were kinda the oddballs in the family. We had a JD 50 and him and I both liked the thing. It wasn't the tractor a 77 Oliver was, but the live PTO, decent hydraulics, and a better gear ratio made it a better tractor than an H, even with the hand clutch.
 
Have to blame my father but he's long dead since 1991. I never had a problem with the front end and PTO was not shielded due to adapter on the G PTO shaft. That was almost 40 years ago and I had a job to do. We upgraded equipment over the years to newer but all just a memory now. Greg
 
where i live in SD you would need to drive to Iowa to find any oliver parts Deere sends a truck out Minn Mn every day to dealers in the area order by 330 in the the next morning. man just down the road from me had new agco massy combine fan went thru the rad in 2nd season took 6 mouths to get it new his sister had to come in with there JD and finish the job he is all JD now
 
I never was around the lettered series Farmalls and never cared for JD. My Dad used to tell a story about my grandad buying a new H Farmall back in the late 40's. Grandad always kept a good tractor and always bought new and kept them several years. He kept the H 6 months and made 1 crop. That was when he started buying Case exclusively. I think it had a lot to do with the dealer.
 
(quoted from post at 04:56:42 01/25/15) Right on! Thanks for the In-fo-mation! :)

So, that means that the PTO has to be on for the H's hydraulics to work. Good to know!!

Absolutely No! The PTO does not need to be engaged for the stock belly pump hydraulics to function on a Farmall h or Farmall M. The foot clutch simply needs to be not pushed down. The tractor can be moving forward, reverse, or sitting in neutral and the belly pump hydraulics will work as long as clutch pedal is not pushed down.
 
Farmall h's sadly get little to no respect. The key to being happy with a factory bone stock one is having the X1 suffix which is the gasoline only model IMOP.

Even a wimpy X1 model will likely put out 27 hp. Add in a better selection of gears than say an 8N Ford's. 1st and 2nd gear on the Farmal H will both be slower than an 8N Ford is in 1st gear. Reverse on the Farmall is slower too and much more useful. More engine torque. Big wheels rarely spin out like little wheels do. Good operator comfort for the era of tractor. The h is a miser on fuel too for the technology being used. Super simple tractor, if anything does break super cheap and simple to fix. Tell me how often you hear of anyone having to spend thousands of dollars to majorly overhaul their Farmall h or Farmall M motor cuase the cylinder sleeve O-rings leaked anti-freeze into the oil and wiped everything out. Or their injector pump leaked diesel into the motor and wiped everything out? Or they had to do major work to get the PTO operational again.

Dry sleeve motors on those farmalls rarely if ever give issues, super simple PTO and gear system that just works.
 
Ditto on that Kent! There's nothing easier than running a properly adjusted hand clutch. Back in the day when kids had to help farm as soon as they could properly operate a tractor, unless you were close to 5' tall you COULD NOT operate a foot clutch tractor. With a hand clutch he/she could stand straight up on the platform and hanging on to steering wheel and operate it correctly/safely. You can actually stand sideways on platform and look right down at drawbar and operate steering/clutch to hook up implements. Foot clutch you HAVE to sit on seat with left foot on clutch and then twist whole upper body around to see drawbar and HOPE foot doesn't slip off clutch. And that's assuming you can reach clutch in first place.I remember distinctly having to "wait" a couple more years to run my Grandpas Super "C" /"H" when my other Grandpa had a '39 JD "B" that I could run (and did) just fine. Pluses and minuses to both. Also most need to know that back then a comparable JD "B" was cheaper to buy than the "H" Farmall and in high gear an "H" is a death trap.
 
A phone call to Maibach,Korves,Ag Parts First,Ricks Ag Parts,Smitty's,the list goes on,I can have parts the next day if I don't want to drive to one of the five Agco dealers that are with in an hour of me.
I needed a shaft and hub for my 1850 last summer. I had never done business with Smitty's before. I called him,he had both parts,but UPS had already been there and picked up. He packaged the stuff up,chased down the UPS truck to another stop and I had the stuff the next day.
At Deeremart,they would grunt and have the wrong part in store next day,then tell me the right one would be there in another day with no apology for not checking the serial number split.
 
I own a 1951 Farmall h, a 1946 Farmall m (distributer live pump to drive behlen add on power steering), and a 1950 JD model A (with the improved single stick 6 speed tranny, mag live pump to power Yetter add on power steering).

I am not a real farmer but only piddle patch between 5 and 8 acres of hay every year along with the usual grading, boxblading, snow clearing, disc smooth, post hole digger, etc that goes on around an old place needing lots of work.

All 3 tractors are bone stock and all 3 are Narrow front end. The Farmall h is an X1 suffix. The Farmall m is a distillate model, and the JD A has the two tanks but I believe it to be a gasoline only model. due to it having the heat shield for the gas tank which only the gas only models had.

Deere A: I like the add on power steering. I like the very nice selection of gear speeds that the tranny offers. NF is very maneuverable. The rollo-matic front end also really smoothes out the ride. I can operate the hand clutch okay (although hate backing with it), but I have to back the tension off of it almost to the point of it slipping under load for my weakling wife to use it. I hate the ergonomics of a 6'5" person trying to reach the foot brakes - what a joke. No safe place for a tall guy to stretch legs either. Do not care for the 2 cylinder on PTO loads. The unsteady PTO pulses will pop the center carrier bearing out of its holder on my haybine. I am sure the A would be a real treat to use on hard drawbar work, but I do not do any type of this work, so I mostly just rake hay with it which I love to idle it down and go up a gear or two and hear the putt putt sound. That said, not sure it is worth me keeping this around for this use alone. Tractor would be easy to add 3 point to, but have not done it since I am not sure I will keep it longterm.

Farmall H: Very nimble tractor with the NF. My only complaint with this tractor is it needs 1 more gear between 4 and 5th otherwise love it. Real miser on fuel for what it is. Very comfortable operator station for a 6'5" guy and my weakling wife has no problem running this tractor even without power steering. This tractor will run my 9' haybine. My haybine is a heavy massive beast and a load but the little h can handle it. Real miser on fuel even raking hay in 4th gear wide open throttle. I have added a 3 point kit to this tractor. I will never sell this tractor.

Farmall M: As with the h needs another gear between 4th and 5th. Not quite as nimble as the h but the power steering makes it real close to being as nimble. Tractor has only flat top pistons and not real bad on fuel at all (does better than the JD model A on similar loads). Handles my haybine with ease. I have added a 3 point kit to this tractor. I will never sell this tractor.

So what is the summary in all this: Yes the John Deere is worth the most money from a collector standpoint, but it would be the the first of the 3 that I would sell. Why? The Farmall h and Farmall m fit my uses better.
 
Grandpa bought a 1936 f20 and all the implements in 1937 for $1500.00. He had a good team of horses and a good pair of mules. He figured he could sell the mules to offset the cost of the tractor, but waited one year to make sure the tractor worked out ok. He sold the mules in 1938 for $700.00. The horse and mule market was rapidly getting soft. He said if had sold the mules in 1937 he could have got over $1000.00 for them.
 
Will agree that I think the Farmall h and Farmall m would have been better served with a road gear speed closer to 12 or 13 mph instead of the blazin fast 16.5 mph.

Would have been safer and also helped the little h get big loads moving easier without cowboy shifting the unscynchronized tranny from 4th to 5th on the fly like many did.
 
(reply to post at 21:54:23 01/25/15)
We had a neighbor that had a m, one time we were trucking corn from a farm about 3 miles away and the m would run away from the 77, but there was a long hill just before the farm and our 77 would catch and pass the m on the hill. LOL, Chuck
 
(quoted from post at 11:14:52 01/25/15) Sorry to disagree with some, we all can't agree on everything, but I still think the Farmall H is still the ideal start-up small-time tractor for the starting guy, just starting to plow, disc, bush-hog. It is STILL the ideal. And for good reasons. They are sitting out there everywhere, they made 390,000+ of them, parts are everywhere, on eBay and every tractor farm supply store, and the dealers can still either have parts sitting on the shelf, or get them quick. They are pretty cheap to get. For a few thousand bucks you;re in business.....

Agreed and well said. That said, I would not pay a few thousand for a straight h, but they are indeed a bargain at the $800 to $1500 price point or less if you lucky. I am a firm believer in adding (making) a 3 point for them too. I would never buy a new 3 point kit but have bought 2 of craigslist for both my h and my m at right around the $300 for each kit price.
 
The factory hydraulic pump on an H is run from the front end of the transmission countershaft. Any time your foot is off the clutch pedal with the engine running the pump will be turning. If you want to disengage the pump all you have to do is remove a small sheet metal cover (2 bolts) and pull two cotter pins and slide the sleeves back and the pump driveshaft will drop right out. It's a 2 minute job to take out or put in.
Zach
 
I had an H for four years and used it to run a baler and haybine, and to pull wagons and skid logs. It had more pulling power than our Massey 35 even though the rated HP was less due to the big tires and the larger slower turning engine. I would still have it but I got the chance to buy a 300 that was basically the same size tractor but with IPTO, fast hitch, live hydraulics and torque amplifier. I had to do some work on it but with the help of wiser persons over the web it is now the handiest tractor I have ever had.
Zach
 
Lot of times the high speed road gear comes up in the IH tractors. If you look at a cross section of the transmission you will readily see how this comes about. The only way to change that road gear seed is to put the drive pinion down on the lower shaft. Being on the top shaft, direct drive is engine speed on pinion. They stayed with this all the way through the 86 series tractors. Then take a look at a A or B or C and you will note the pinion is on lower shaft. All you have to do to change highest gear is to alter the number of teeth on the transmission gear. Me, being an IH mechanic and really the only tractor I feel qualified to intelligently make judgement on, always felt they needed to change that and was disappointed when they made a whole new transmission and final drive with the 706 on up and still stuck to that basic design. Now the 50 series used a three shaft transmission so they could do a whole lot of speed changing in relation to engine speed. Ever notice how a late model 1066 for instance, would not pull any bigger load than an earlier model. It just pulled it faster. Upped the rpm's of engine, same gear ratio's, increased horse power so more work done but no more pull power.
 
(quoted from post at 14:51:26 01/25/15) I think most are overlooking that the aftermarket add ons were plentiful for Farmalls.
Pistons to boost HP,live hyd, and power steering. Were the most common.

Musta been something wrong with them if they needed all those add ons...
 
Working on a haying operation in the 60's when these tractors were still common workhorses. We could choose between a JD A and a Farmall H and Super H. It was always a competition to see who could lay claim to one of the Farmalls,they were a lot less tiring to operate than the two banger. All were good tractors for the time.
 
AMEN always needing to add on INTERNATIONAL, JOHN DEERE ALWAYS HAS BEEN LEAPS AND BOUNDS AHEAD,hence the name JOHN DEERE,not CASE IH/NEW HOLLAND /FORD/ALLIS/AGCO..........Now let the big hogs eat just my 0.02 little bitty cents......I ONLY DRIVE JOHN DEERE .. .
 
Very few have augers or need them so not much of a consern there, most if livestock only posts needed would be corner or gate posts so would not own a tractor mount digger.
 
And a plow of your size is an entirely different mater in type of tractor to be using it on. I had 4 bottom semi mount and would have prefered a pull type, do better work. That tractor you cannot properly adjust wheel tread for a 3 point plow so that should not be a consideration and then most 3 point implements are heavy enough to instead of being lifted to lift the front end off the ground. The only thing my 3 point gets used for is a 3 pt boom or once in a while the grader blade. Have a 3 point rotary mower I bought in 13 and did not get it ready to use in 14 so need to get it going this spring but a pull type I like better.
 
I firmly believe that it was JD's resistance to adopting new technology that ultimately kept them independent to this day.

Look at all the other tractor manufacturers who tried to introduce modern features too soon. Either gone, or merged into a large conglomeration.

Deere stuck with the old designs, and made a huge leap all at once, while companies like IH tried to phase the new technology in a little at a time, or tried to introduce it well before the farming community was ready to accept it.
 
A 30 or an E3 with .020 over pistons (pretty common upgrade for the time) would out pull most stock 40s and use less gas to do it. That continental 6 just didn't have the cubes to pack much ummph.
 

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