53 series detroit injector height question

Does anybody happen to have the injector height setting tool laying around? The 3-53 i have is the type that utilizes the tool that drops down in a small hole on what i guess ill call the body of the injector. The service manual lists out all the possible height settings, but my question is, is that height setting based on going from the bottom of the valve to the top of the retainer, like the book says to set it too?

I will go ahead and order the tool online. I found that snapon has them online for like 120 bucks, but since its sunday i was hoping somebody could give me some insight on this so i could at least try this to see if i could ball park it. It would be real nice to actually hear it run before i make any more decisions.

On a side note, this is in a loader that got as a non running unit. The previous "mechanic" put in new injectors, but failed to clean off the 2 pounds of rat poop on the head prior to doing this.

Thanks!

Been awhile. But from what I remember. The tool fits in the hole. Then the edge of the tool should pass over the spring plate with just a slight drag.

Billy,

Yes that is what its suppose to do, but i dont have one, so my question is in the service manual it lists all the different injector heights, so is the height listed what the spring and retainer length need to be, or does the tool have an offset because of dropping down in the hole?

I will end up ordering the tool but like i said, i was hoping to at least ball park it today to hear it run.

Thanks!

what # tool do you need ? yes the tool inserts into the hole for a short distance until a shoulder stops it. $ 120 is pretty pricey,

buzzinduzzin,

I am not sure which tool number it is, but the snap on tool set lists out 5 blocks plus the handle.

I know that the tool fits in the hole, but my question is still the same. The service manual lists a height setting, its based on using the tool. Is that the height of the valve from the bottom to the top of the retainer or does the handle have any offset and the number is a reference to that?

I know that a 120 bucks is pricey, but ill have several more detroits to go through so if it saves me hours or days in setting the injectors correctly then it can be a small price to pay.

Like i said, if i could get a ball park idea on the height now at least it would give me a better idea of where im at with this loader.

the reason i dont have the tool now is that i wasnt prepared to actually work on this loader now, but priorities changed so i didnt have a choice, now i need to know what my next step with this machine will be.

I also have a pettibone military outdoor forklift with a 4-53, and an HD-5 with a 2-53 that i am going to have to work on eventually, so i think the tool will eventually save me time and money.

Thanks!

Get the number of the injector like n45 there is a different tool for different injectors. Most Detroit places have them seems like $30

jocco,

I am not questioning the cost of the tool, the type of injector, or even where to buy it, i am questioning the height reference of the tool itself.

Thanks

I have used my digital calipers. measure from top of inj. body-[hole] to top of spring. do this with valves on that cyl. fully open. need inj. #, but could be 1.160

mite-help,

Great name! haha

in the service manual i have it listed out heights going between 1.508 to 1.46, with reference to using the tool based on the injector. Right from the top of the hole to the top of the valve retainer they were set at just shy of 1.5. It felt like it wanted to run, but just wasnt there.

During cranking it did blow some white smoke turning gray but never really black, so im wondering if maybe it needs to be backed out closer to that 1.5 mark.

Anyway, thanks for the help! If i get this figured out today ill at least post what i found.

Thanks!

Sorry--my mistake on measurement! meant to type 1.460! you should be close enough to run in this area. find fuel return line & make sure pump is flowing thru injectors. most have a orifice fitting @ cyl. head to maintain a little pressure] pumps do go bad & suck air from sitting. does it have emergency kill flap on air intake? don't remember if 53 series had or not. fuel rack going to full fuel position? [all the way into injector body] have used shop air& reg. to pressure fuel tank to prime pump. also, wise to use visegrips on rack bar to control rpm til you know whats going on with gov. & settings. good luck

Years ago I rebuilt a 318 Detroit & I made my own tool. I set them all the same & it run just fine. I made it like a t which was off square a few thousands. The long side would clear & the short side would hit when I set them.

teddy52food---I like your idea on tool. like a go 0r no go feeler gauge.

Depends on the injector #. Pretty easy tool to
make.

I know it's been a while but the last time I needed one it was $12 from snap on and $4 from the GM truck place. You need to check around before you buy.

The height listed on the tool, and in the book, is the distance from the casting where the hole is ((((the depth of the hole or the tip of the tool isn't included in the distance)))), to the pad on top of the injector spring. The desired height setting is determined by the number on the side of the injector body. That being the case, set a pair of calipers, with depth capabilities, to the right distance. Then simply measure the distance from the flat area around the hole to the top of the pod. What you'll want is a slight drag on the end of the caliper body as you swing it over the spring pad, or simply set and measure each one with the depth gage until you get it right.

The hole only locates the tool in the injector, the height
measurement is from the base of inj to top of retainer when the
exhaust valves are fully open (rocker arms down)

Height Depends on the advance desired. Is it low speed, high speed, variable speed or in emissions tune ?

As others posted, with valves open, measure from the flat surface beside the tool pilot hole to the top of the injector plunger. use the depth probe of your dial caliper as an injector setting tool.

$120 to smap on is beyond ridiculous. Lat time I bought one it was $4 at a DD shop.

yes dimn. is taken from top of injector boss to the top of the retainer. If your engine is timed the same height as the 4-53 in my Oliver it will be 1.460 . I am lucky in that I have a friend who worked for Detroit Diesel and worked exclusively on two strokes for years. He told me to accurately time the best way was with a dial indicator, and a mounting fixture for same. I made up a little holder that sits down on the injector boss, and clamps on the quill of a dial indicator. Using a set of gauge blocks, I zeroed the dial at 1.460, and proceeded to check heights. I found that with the dial there was no uncertainty.

Thanks to all that replied, it was helpful, and thanks JD for the actual picture, i can make that.

Here is where i am now with it, for those keeping track...

This is a little 3-53 on a model 55 michigan loader. I blew out the fuel supply line and hooked up a little transfer pump to push fuel through both the strainer, fuel pump, filter, and i had fuel coming out the return. Blew the return back into the tank for good measure. So i set the injectors to 1.5, cranked it over, nothing, gave it a snort or two of ether, acted like it wanted to hit, had some white smoke, so i backed the injectors out, cranked and no white smoke. So i ran them in to around 1.4, white smoke, just wouldnt hit, bump of ether, wanted to hit but wouldnt take off.

This is where it got weird...When not cranking or running the transfer pump the fuel filter level would drop, and quick enough to see it drop but the only thing lower than it is the fuel pump itself, for fuel to run back past the strainer it has to go uphill. Theres no leaking out of the pump, i blew it all off so it was dry prior to all this. the crankcase level doesnt seem to be rising, so it had to be going somewhere, even the fuel return is above the filter. So i took a couple jugs, filled one and left the other for the return, when cranking there is fuel coming out of the return, but it just doesnt want to hit.

Based on the amount of rat poop on the head when i started, i have little faith that the the guy that replaced the injectors ran the rack, so that seems like my next step. I may also try bypassing the fuel pump and use my transfer pump to the filter and see what happens...

I am also open to suggestions...

Thanks again to everybody who chimed in! The clarification of the injector tool made a huge difference, ill machine out a couple of those now haha

Be aware that the gear type fuel pump must be used, as pressure in the fuel rails is normally 40-70 PSI, depending on rpm.

Adjust the injectors to exactly what the chart says for that injector number (Number on the little round injector disc.) That adjustment must be exact or injection timing will be way off and make it hard or impossible to start.

Make sure the injecton control rack moves freely and do your starting attempts with the rack wide open. Make sure the restrictor orfice is still in the return line (usually in the return fitting in the head. Without that restrictor you will have no fuel pressure, hard starting and low power. Also make sure you have a check valve on the fuel in line to prevent fuel run back and filling the system full of air.

If that HD5 still has the original engine, it should be a 2-71. If the valve cover on the HD 5 is retained with two "door knob" hand bolts through the top of the cover, it is a 71 series. All the 53 series had a row of bolts around the edge flange on the valve cover.

Jon,

Thank you for the correction and insight on how to quickly tell the difference. I forgot the little hd is a 2-71. Based on your help it seems I have a 2-71, 3-71, 3-53, and a 4-ill tell you when i get a chance to go look again.

So, once again for those keeping track or have any ideas....fuel pressure orifice is there. With the throttle wide open the rack is all the way in, towards the injector body. Injectors are S45s. With them set to 1.46 I get quite a bit of white smoke and with bumps of ether it goes more black and it will hit while cranking but just wont seem to take off. Backed off to 1.5 and noticeably less white smoke with the same result. You can feel the exhaust manifold start to warm up but just wont take off.

The air breather is off and a couple times I held my hand over the intake to restrict some air, starter drug a little, I could feel it pulling in air, got more smoke thats about it. im thinking about trying to crank and putting the air hose in the intake and trying a little more air cause now im just at a loss. As near as I can tell the motor hasnt been opened up but I also dont realy see any timing marks on the crank pulley or anything so I dont know where to look there.

Im just at my wits end here and very open to suggestions, emails, phone calls, pictures, hell if your in the neighborhood stop in cause right now...I got nothing haha

(quoted from post at 18:58:21 01/18/15) Thanks to all that replied, it was helpful, and thanks JD for the actual picture, i can make that.

Here is where i am now with it, for those keeping track...
a snort or two of ether, acted like it wanted to hit, had some white smoke, so i backed the injectors out, cranked and no white smoke. So i ran them in to around 1.4, white smoke, just wouldnt hit, bump of ether, wanted to hit but wouldnt take off.
but it just doesnt want to hit.

Click to expand...

What is the actual temperature of the engine? Odds are it still has the lousy 17 to 1 S series pistons. On occasion replacement sleeves and pistons will get mixed up which will drop compression.
Sometimes somebody will grind the valves and seats instea dof replacing them. This sinks the valves, drops compression and makes starting worse.
With S pistons a 53 series won't fire without a block heater when below 45F . Unless it has a 24V starter that will increase the cranking rpms .
My 2-53 will fire at 32F after half a dozen turns without either or pre-heating with the N series 21 to 1 pistons. And the N series injectors.
Better yet is the ultra fine spray pattern from the C series injectors.
It maybe time to do a 100% tear down and inspection. Odds are somebody took a short cut or blotched the assembly.
There are updated valve springs to reduce valve train breakage from valve float. There is a blower seal update to prevent lube oil fueled run aways.
The Previously mentioned N pistons/sleeves and C injectors are vital.
Sleeve protrusion height is critical.

The temp outside today was the upper 50's close to 60. The injectors were rebuilt S-45's.

I fought with it more today, while cranking it over, two of the exhaust ports started warming up, but the closest to the fan stayed cold. I would crank it a little, then blow in the suction side of the pump till really nothing but air came out the return, each time it seemed to try to run a little more. I may try taking off the back pressure orifice and blow it all out again, then try cranking it.

The injectors are set to 1.46 but even with that, it seems like it just wasnt getting enough fuel to take off. If i am reading the manual correctly, it seems like the head has an internal fuel rail/bowl and i am starting to wonder if maybe the internal fuel rail or where the injector bowls arent kinda plugged up.

Time to pull the engine, 100% clean, inspect and measure. Won't cost much more than your time and a gasket set.
Something is deeply wrong such as ether damage, miss timed cam or assembled with the wrong mix of parts.
No surprise given the level of workmanship by the previous tinker.