Ahead of it's time

What tractor/brand would be considered the most advanced and ahead of it's time? Oliver seems very interesting and maybe got short changed in both marketing and in untimely buyouts?
 
Minneapolis Moline Had some innovative ideas in use alone with Allis Chalmers. MM was about the same as Oliver for the market and buyouts.
 
I'd have to go with Oliver until the late 60s when White started to milk them for a cash cow and didn't keep up with the competition. They had some amazing stuff being tested,in fact,they patented the CVT transmission in the late 60s,but White wouldn't pony up the cash to put anything new in to production.
 
I think if Oliver had been left to their own devices,even under White's ownership,and if everything in development had been produced,they would have buried everybody else. I'd have to go back and find the article from a Hart Parr Oliver Collector magazine that had pictures and descriptions of a new tractor that was in development before I could describe it to you,but that thing was revolutionary,that's the only way to describe it. Nobody at the time had anything that could have competed.
Unfortunately,White's truck division was tanking and they used the profits from the Ag divisions to prop up their failing truck division. Even if White Consolidated Industries had been allowed to take over White Farm Equipment,things might have been different,but the Justice Department stopped the sale to them because they owned too much of Allis Chalmers at the time.
 
What era?
30s?
50s?
80s?
In 1939 Ford came out with the 9N with 3 point hitch and Ferguson System.
Since then different brands and models have come out with some ingenious updates in engines, transmissions, types of pto, brakes, cabs, and features.
But few features are still universally used as is the 3 point hitch.
 
international had a diesel engine developed by 1934. they were ahead john deere by 15 years.
 
(quoted from post at 08:31:47 12/28/14) What era?
30s?
50s?
80s?
In 1939 Ford came out with the 9N with 3 point hitch and Ferguson System.
Since then different brands and models have come out with some ingenious updates in engines, transmissions, types of pto, brakes, cabs, and features.
But few features are still universally used as is the 3 point hitch.

Allis Chalmers had the first tractor on rubber tires, invented the power adjust wheels, and sold the first farm tractor with a turbo diesel engine.....all in use today.
 
Funny how after both got run down enough they ended up together as Agco anyhow.

Paul
 
JD had a powershift in 1964. They were ahead of IH by... Oh wait IH put one into production. Cat had the first farm diesel tractor anyway.
 
There was a connection there even before Agco though. The last of the big Allis tractors and the big Deutz Allis' used a White transmission,rearend and even cab.
Kinda like the pre Agco Massey connection. The big 4 wheel drive Masseys got sold out to McConnell,then later sold to Agco and became the Agco Star 4 wheel drive tractors. The White combine division was sold off to Massey too,then came back to Agco.
Sometimes it seems like those companies were all destined to be together.
 
Like any other market, different competitors leap frog ahead of each other from time to time. Two big advancements that I think dominated enough to actually changed the tractor market are:

Early 1920's Fordson. Despite its short comings, its extremely low price and modern design captured around half of the entire tractor market and forced the competition to advance or quit.

1970 Case 70 series. Integrated cabs set a new standard of quietness and comfort that left the rest of the industry scrambling to catch up. Other dealers had customers demanding better cabs from their favorite brand. Throughout the mid 1970's, farmers traded in newer, low hour tractors for ones with a better cab.

John Deere 4010 was also a big advancement in 1960.

Oliver often had advanced features, like live PTO and better comfort in the late 1940's fleetline series, on through other series into the 1960's. But they didn't sell well in our area. Maybe they were priced too high for the market, or the company never intended to increase it's market share?
 
Wagner tractors and Ag Caterpillars used engines with turbos before the AC D19. The D19 gets the fame because it was a more common and widely sold tractor.
 
I always thought the little ford 881 was the most advanced at the time, I don't think it was ahead of it's time. The transmission and rear end I mean. The power shift and all the functions of the pto.
 
(quoted from post at 12:31:47 12/28/14) What era?
30s?
50s?
80s?
In 1939 Ford came out with the 9N with 3 point hitch and Ferguson System.
Since then different brands and models have come out with some ingenious updates in engines, transmissions, types of pto, brakes, cabs, and features.
But few features are still universally used as is the 3 point hitch.

smaller tractors,
agree with UD, that 3-point hitch on the back of the 39 Ford 9N changed everything...including to today.
Just to add to that thought.
Making the 3-point hitch, draft and position control, and putting the pump on the engine for live hydraulics....
still here today on most little tractors.
so my vote for ahead of it's time, 1953-54 Ford NAA
(other makes had joined in by then, but Ford/Ferguson were first, so they get the vote)
 
(quoted from post at 09:33:16 12/28/14) Cat had the first farm diesel tractor anyway.

I was going to say that! And add in the fact that turbo's were old technology by the time AC added one to a tractor, not to come up with something new of different but to have a tractor in a certain HP range without the cost of designing a new engine. In other words, to add a tractor to the line "on the cheap".

Me? Personally? The best tractor in the world is..........one that starts, runs and performs needed task when it's supposed to that is PAID for! I may like the turning radius, comfort or power of another tractor better but if I have to make payments that tractor sucks to me! If I have to work on that tractor before I can use it, it isn't a good tractor, at least not right then!

Rick
 
The Essex Tri-Directional.
a177692.jpg
 
I would have to say the AC WD 45 as the best tractor in its day. Live power with a hand clutch, Power adjust wheels and good hydrolic and a wide assortment of implements for it. With an easy adjustable draft control to meet the needs of the implement in use. I still think the snap coupler was one of the best systems that was ever used. To have the only tractor that had a plow that pulled from the belly in front of the back wheels to pull down on the whole tractor not just the back end made it one of the best plowing tractor for its time. Its hard to beat a good WD 45. Oh I should also say that they built the first true round baler, If only they could see the hay industry now. Ac in the late 50s and early 60s were ahead of there time in combines with 20" rows and equipment to plant them.

Now Oliver had many of its own creations that were ahead of there time, The first crawler tractor that had rubber tracks comes to mind. In the 60's the 50 series tractors set the standard for White when they took over and for years to come.

If you get right down to it all the tractor companies made advances that may have been ahead of there time. To look back on them now it easy to see the hits and misses but it will always hard to see the future. Bandit
 
(quoted from post at 09:47:20 12/28/14) I can't believe the ETD didn't even get an honorable mention!

It's far from over yet, but despite the leap forward that the ETD made it pales next to Ford.
 
MM had a lot of advancements that are found on a lot of the modern tractors. The UDLX with a fully enclosed accessorized cab, front wheel assist on the early 1960s tractors, fully grouped tractor controls on a side console as on the G1000 Vista models. Also weight distribution design on 4WDs.
All the manufacturers had ideas that were blended into what we have today. I always liked the Oliver Over/Under shift design. That was a proven design that outlasted a lot of other makes. AC had, as was mentioned, power adjust wheels, Cockshutt had the first independent live pto, Ferguson 3pt system, Yet oddly (not wanting to start a fight lol) IH and JD were the most popular sold.
 
Let's see: AC had a fuel-cell tractor (it's now in the Smithsonian) in 1959 -- so what's the big deal with the Toyota Mirai?

And IH did a turbine tractor (based on an airplane APU, I believe) in 1961 that ran at around 60000 RPM.

I'll call it a tie between those two.
 
I think the 18 speed in the Magnums was actually designed by IH engineers and it was suppose to go in the next series after the 88 series. I know there are some 88 series running around with Magnum style prototype cabs.
 
Well, here's a guy that improved the Ford 8N by converting it to solar power, but as near as I can tell, it crashed into a tree so I don't think its going to be marketed anytime soon. Nice thought, probably not going anywhere though. On to his next money making invention...

Mark
Solar Powered 8N
 
Point is, Ford probably would have sold about 2 dozen N's WITHOUT Ferguson's hitch. Ferguson wasn't much on marketing. Had he been, the N Ford may have never existed. It was the HITCH that sold almost a million tractors, not tractor itself.
 
(quoted from post at 06:48:10 12/29/14) Point is, Ford probably would have sold about 2 dozen N's WITHOUT Ferguson's hitch. Ferguson wasn't much on marketing. Had he been, the N Ford may have never existed. It was the HITCH that sold almost a million tractors, not tractor itself.

I disagree. What sold the Ford N's and NAA was Fords money backing it and advertising it, Fords market share in cars and trucks making it a very trusted name, Fords ability to sell it cheaper than anything comparable, that you could get service and parts from any Ford dealer (at least according to the sales literature of the time) and then the 3 pt. The 3pt was a proprietary implement line when it was introduced, no one else made Ford 3pt stuff. It caught on because they sold lots and lots of tractors and it is, in fact, a lot easier to hook up than the JD, IHC, Case systems of the day. When a guy owned one 20 or 25hp tractor and did everything with it, that made a difference. But Ford had the money to sell a complete line of equipment geared to the Ford 3 pt, and they sold it cheap.

Looking back through the old farm magazines of the day it is very apparent that Ford spent a lot more on advertising than the others. That and the low price is what I believe sold Fords N series. No one else had a centerfold ad in Country Gentleman. Masseys Combines were the closest as far as ad size and frequency followed by AC. Deere, Case and MM were almost non-existent and used small ads in the pre-war to 1955 era. IH had some big ads but not a lot of them, not like Ford. And Ford wasn't shy about putting pictures of Ford cars and trucks in their tractor ads. IOW- Ford had advertising science down before they even started making tractors and I think that made a huge difference in a day when farm magazines were the main way to advertise and sell tractors.
 
You can disagree until you turn purple in the face....doesn't change the fact that N series Fords would be absolutely WORTHLESS without the 3-point hitch.

Equipment was sold through Ford dealers, but even the implements were tagged with "The Ferguson System". All the 3 point implements in the universe wouldn't be worth the time of day without the hitch.

It was Harry's hitch that made 'em sell.
 
[i:654c4848f0]"Point is, Ford probably would have sold about 2 dozen N's WITHOUT Ferguson's hitch."[/i:654c4848f0]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda...
All this is hindsight.
This fact remains: Ford sold nearly a million Ns.
And they revolutionized tractors and farming.
 
The more I read about Olivers the more interesting it gets.Did Oliver and MM share the same engineers or were they direct competitors?
 
They were competitors. Most would agree that the reason for the silver White tractors was that even under White ownership,there was still animosity between the management of the two divisions,Oliver and Moline.
 
Harold Brock was one of the engineers that designed the select-o-speed transmission in the Ford tractors. He and his team were in the middle of testing and still trying to work out the bugs when Ford was pushing to put them into production. They didn't want to proceed until the bug were worked out so Brock and the whole team were fired. Brock later went on to engineer the power shift for Deere.
 
Ford sold a million 3-point hitches.....attached to a pice of junk. The hitch revolutionized tractors...the N ford...not so much.
 
[i:654c4848f0]"attached to a pice of junk"[/i:654c4848f0]

Maybe.
Then again, they're still very popular.
In fact they're still so popular that the Ford Ns are the only brand/model with their own seperate forum here. Part of that is the fact that there's still so many of them still running - 75 years later.
They also happen to fetch some of the highest prices of many of the old tractors of that era - not counting some of the special stuff of course.
Any way, you don't have to like them if you don't want to.
But one thing I've learned as I went along is that bad mouthing another man's things never made your own things better.
 
I just skimmed through the topic and might have missed it, but did anyone mention the first row crop tractor? the Farmall Regular! I would say that's right up there with the 3 point hitch and independent PTO!
 

Ford had the Typoon 100 hp tractor in 1957. They limited it 50 hp and the 10 speed hydro shift at that time.

http://marvinbaumann.com/turbinetractors.html
 
And CAT. wouldn't exist if it wasn't for HOLT Tractor, as Holt owned the original patent on the name "Caterpillar" on a crawler tractor.

:>)
 
(quoted from post at 03:22:09 12/30/14) And CAT. wouldn't exist if it wasn't for HOLT Tractor, as Holt owned the original patent on the name "Caterpillar" on a crawler tractor.

:>)
is' true as oliver crawlers would not have existed if not for cletrac...
 
(quoted from post at 10:44:18 12/29/14) You can disagree until you turn purple in the face....doesn't change the fact that N series Fords would be absolutely WORTHLESS without the 3-point hitch.

Equipment was sold through Ford dealers, but even the implements were tagged with "The Ferguson System". All the 3 point implements in the universe wouldn't be worth the time of day without the hitch.

It was Harry's hitch that made 'em sell.

I agree that the tractor itself wasn't anything special at all, the 3 pt was the one feature that set it apart, if not ahead. The money Ford had and all the rest got a lot of them sold so that the 3 pt became an example of easy to use.
 

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