ot, need help on bad buyer

i had a tractor for sale, lady comes, buys tractor, writes a check. that was on a saturday, monday went to cash check, account was non existant. (now i know not to accept checks now, so lets keep that to a dull roar). so called sherriff, got theft report filed, located the tractor in another county at a 3rd party residence. so, contacted the county sherriff where its located, they said its my home countys problem, so called my home county, they said its the county where its located problem, called em back got same answer, its home countys problem.. im tired of this already. i will file a small claims if need be, but trying to make the attempt to recover the tractor thru our law enforcement. can i just send a repo man out and get it? have check n receipts from attempts to contact, etc. no avail. what should a good ol boy do?
 
state police, no help. im half lead to belive, the message im getting is, we are aware of it, we can do nothing.
a repo man, must report to county hes working in, but that dont mean hes got law enforcement support, unless he is assalted n injured? so, im hiring a repo man.... hes got bubbas to go with.
 
You will need to be able to PROVE it is your tractor with a receipt for where you bought it. That is hard on old tractors you have owned for a long time. How many times have you boughten a tractor/equipment privately and got a written receipt with the serial number on it??? IF you inherited it is even harder.

If you go on a third parties' property you could be charged with trespassing. You will need to go through the LEGAL channels. You will need to have the county your located in contact the county where it is currently at.

1) I am amazed that you where able to find the tractor.

2) I would be surprised if it is where you think it is very long.

3) Writing a check on a closed account or a non existent account is fraud. The lady can and should be charged with that. Anything over $750 dollars,in Iowa, is a felony not a misdemeanor.

You are going to have to work at getting your tractor or the money. I wish you luck.

In the future never allow a sold item to leave unless the check had cleared your bank. Even calling that bank about a check is no guarantee that it will clear. The check might get there after the funds have been used by other checks or withdrawn.
 
I don't accept any personal checks unless I know the person. It's just as easy for them to go to the bank and withdraw the money. I would call the law and meet them where your tractor is. Also take along a rollback. Take them to the small claims court to recover any costs. Hal
 
If you "steal" it back, which I would be all for, how are THEY going to prove it is theirs lol? If you still have the bum check, hang on to it.
 
I agree with JD Seller, it is an uphill battle. The last thing you want to do is go get it and be charged with theft in their home county.
 
Here is what I am going to tell you, and I back it up with decades of collection experience and also selling used equipment. You are a slam dunk in small claims court. Problem is, that only gets you a judgement and YOU still have to collect it. You can follow it up with the court in many cases. In Michigan we do a creditor exam and can even get a bench warrant in some cases, but that still does not get you the tractor. From my perspective, you are already in the right and have a law to back you up. A crime has been committed. Look up the law that applies to your situation and print out a copy. If it is a civil law, then go to court. If it is a criminal infraction then take your copy to the county sheriff where the tractor is and keep going up the ladder demanding that the law be enforced. It is their job and their duty. If they won't do it make a stink until they do. Don't let them pass the buck. There are written documents that will tell you who has jurisdiction and they are there for your use.
 
I would also assume repo man needs a court action, would seem strange he could just go get a vehicle without papers filed.
 
JD, i have taken the steps. when i wrote reciepts, i wrote serial numbers down, i have hundreds of photos, ive owned it for a long time... counties basically said, were aware, but were staying put. they did not say i couldnt send a repo man out. it is in plain sight, not in a building. and yes your right, im acting fast so i dont lose it again.
 
im not setting foot on property. i know i can file small claims, but the idiot deputy notified the 3rd party of my intentions n im worried that the tractor will disappear again. now, the police did not say i could not hire a repo man, they just said there was nothing they will do even tho there is an active theft report on it, and has been located by a police detective. so is that what i can do is send a repo man? if hes successful in retrieving it, ill deal with reprocussion. im not afraid of that issue.
 
Yup, just go get it. If they would happen to call the cops just play it cool. As long as you don't make a scene cop isn't going to do anything. Cop shows up I would just say "Lady bought the tractor but paid with a bad check. We decided it was easier to just void the transaction by taking the tractor back." Worse case is the cop tells you to get lost. Now if you start screaming, yelling and threatening that's a whole different story..
 
Too much politics in county agencies. Call State Police. It's basically a stolen vehicle and they have no problem ,in our county, handling that kind of thing. Go with them and when the thief sees you all coming up their drive , you will have no argument from them. Better yet, go to their house first and if they don't "settle" it then call State Police on cell phone and report it stolen and that you are at the crime scene. Guarantee it won't even get to the point you actually have to make the call. They will NOT call your bluff. They probably have some outstanding warrants anyway. Use the power of the "bluff", criminals can't afford to call you on it.
 
in this case the check is your golden ticket. take the check to the states attorney. they will issue a letter saying they have so many days to make the check good. if they dont a warrant for their arrest will be issued and the bail will be for the amount of the check. and you get the bail money. I have done this numerous times on bad rent checks after the tennants have moved out...they think they have gotten one over on me and boom they are in jail
 
Somewhere in your posting I read the word Deputy Sheriff....that was your first mistake. Deputies are selected for their personal relationship to the sheriff, with little training and minimal motivation. You need to go up the ladder fast and aggressively, until you find someone in the county government with the self respect to do his job...not always easy to find.

Be careful, repo-ing it yourself, can quickly turn into a very dangerous situation.
 
As an Attorney I get such questions and have no idea what your State or local laws are, so no warranty and I've also found Sheriffs aren't much help until you obtain a Court Order, but that being said here are a few things that come to mind.

1) For the bad check, file a complaint with the Prosecutors Office, many offices have a team of young deputy Prosecutors PLUS many offices have an entire bad check division ready willing and able to prosecute AND YOUR TAX DOLLRAS PAY FOR THIS NO NEED TO HIRE A PRIVATE ATTORNEY. In some jurisdiction you can be awarded treble damages for bad checks, ask the Prosecutor. Take the bad check with you and other evidence (see below)when you visit the Prosecutors Office TOMORROW.

2) Dig up and/or start a paper trail of any evidence you can find to establish your ownership of the tractor (Bill of sale or receipt and serial numbers would be good). Get a certified copy of the advertisement of the tractor for sale and any pictures of it on your farm or you on it etc etc etc GET WHAT YOU CAN FIND, whether or not its admissible is a legal question no need to worry with now. The fact you ran a sales ad and were given a check for it is pretty good evidence.

3) While the bad check route is the first offense and the cheapest one to pursue (Prosecutor is paid to do that) if legal action is required you would be seeking an Order of Replevin for the return of personal property that belongs to you.

If would take the check and sales ad and any and all evidence of ownership to the Prosecutor MONDAY MORNING. Keep a good diary and ledger and copies and any ownership evidence you have. If you need to bring an action for replevin, consult a local attorney.

CAUTION SELF HELP

In some jurisdictions, self help (go get it back yourself) is legal PROVIDED YOU DO NOT BREACH THE PEACE and that gets fairly legal and complicated. If you could just go get it and not breach the peace Id consider it HOWEVER that's more like for a car found on the public streets and repo men NOT in a garage so be careful.

FINAL CAUTION be careful of lay or Billy Bobs suggestions, as all states laws are different so what they got by with may NOT be true in your area (maybe not legal in theirs even lol). If you ask a trained professional attorney, there's a good chance he will advise taking the prosecutorial route (bad check and fraud and maybe felony or maybe treble damages etc) and a legal action for replevin.

CONSULT THE PROSECUTOR AND AN ATTORNEY BEFORE YOU TAKE ANY HURRIED ACTION even if Billy Bob or your brother in law suggest otherwise!!!!

Note how I dint get on your case for taking a check, no sense in beating that horse or closing the door after he escaped lol Just mark that one up to having to pay stupid tax, I paid plenty myself in my life grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

best wishes

John T Country Lawyer
 
Electrical and Legal Questions yield the most responses and opinions (me included lol) it seems, lets see if this tops some of the recent electrical questions???

John T
 
I have been involved in repossessing equipment. It was when I worked at dealerships. There always was a paper trail that included a court action or a signed loan document stating what would happen for non payment. You would not have anything like this.

We then had the country sheriff send out a deputy with us when we picked up the equipment. Even that is no guarantee that you will be in the clear.

We picked up a tractor with a Deputy sheriff present. When we got to the farm the tractor was outside in a pasture. The pasture had an electric fence around it. We unhooked a spring gap and drove right to the tractor. After the tractor was loaded we hooked the gap up just like had been. A year later the dealership was sued. The owner claimed that we had left the fence open. So his cattle got out on to his bunker silo and ruined the plastic cover. Spoiling the silage. He was claiming $4500 damages. The truck driver, myself and the deputy all testified that the fence was hooked back just like it was when we got there. The bleeding heart judge found in the farmer favor. The dealership had a judgment issued against it. The funds where collected out of the dealerships checking account before they where even notified that the judgment was in effect. THIS IS 100% TRUE!!!

We all where shocked and the other county judges all could not believe it either. The store's lawyer told us to just forget it as the cost to appeal it up the ladder would have been much more than the judgment cost.

The point here is if you or a repo man go on that property than you could be liable for just about anything the owner comes up with. Then you take your chances in court.
 
I would go get my property at the third party residence and I would report my home county sheriff to the state for malfeasence for not actively pursuing the bad check aspect. Where I live the local Sheriff would have sent a warrant for the bad check writer to the next jurisdiction, whether they did anything or not would be out of the local sheriffs control but most of the time they reciprocate because they never know when they are going to need each others help.
 
john, thank you for the advice, i looked up indiana repo laws on line, and found that a creditor (being me) has the right to repo property being the contract, (aka the check and receipt and a follow up reciept on balance unpaid) can enter a yard, a driveway, even a fenced in yard if the gate is not locked to reposess any property. i have decided to void the transaction totally, and thats my out in this case. repo man has to notify the police dept that hes working in the county. i dont have to go to court for an order of action. fall behind on vehicle payments for three months,,, and youll have a wrecker in your driveway to reposess your car. if its in plain sight, he will come back with your car in peaceful situation. i did learn that if he threatens its a void, but if they threaten its assalt. repo men on cars never needed a court order to come get your car, just a creditor telling them to go get it. if the car is inside a building, cant touch it then its a court case.
 
Law enforcement is a complete joke. Four years back. A custom silage chopper was in town. I made him a hydraulic hose. he paid with check. His check bounced.

I turned the check over to the county attorney. he filed an arrest warrent. (Turns out the guy left a string of bad checks) The sheriff in Philips county(where the guy lives) says he can't find the guy.

The town he lives in has a population of about 200. I can't beleive they can't find someone in a town of 200 people. The farmer gave me the guys address, home phone,work phone and even told me what bar he hangs out in at night. And the sheriff can't find this guy? I think he is not looking!

The farmer who
 
Yeah, especially if Bubba can demonstrate how he used the crescent wrench as a teething (toothing?) ring.
 
John: I have a question for you that I don't want on the forum. My E mail is open . Please give me a reply. Thanks.
 
I'm reading all the responses and seeing way too many that suggest going and getting the tractor. It's no longer your tractor. You sold it. You need to concentrate on getting payment.
 
state police sent me to my home county. then they took the theft report. then they contacted the second county where the tractor was found. second county zaid its home county problem, home county said its second county problem. so like i said, the message is lil clearer today.
after reading indiana repo laws, i have the right to send a repo man to the 3rd party residence n retrive the tractor under peaceful terms.
if the repo man is unsuccessful, then ill go to small claims, but still have to go repo it again. so why wait?
i diagree with cowman, no disrespect sir, but let me buy a tractor from you with a bad check. the contract was broken when the check was written off a non existing account. no compensation, breech of contract. we all agree its a slam dunk in court. i know that, my problem is, them people moving it and never seeing it again. then what? my thoughts are, time is of the eccence and laws say i can send a repo man. if that dont work then ill sue. thanks for all the replies.
 
You're welcome. Some of the Common Law as I best recall regarding a Repo and to NOT Breach the Peace held if the property was on a public street GOOD TO TAKE,,,,,If in an enclosed Garage NOT good to take,,,,,,,,,,If in the driveway good to take (but fact sensitive) SO LONG AS NO BREACH OF PEACE.

Yep theres no court order required if your using Self Help and again NOT breaching the peace.

Good Luck

John T
 
I agree that the county attorney is the place to go. Bad checks are their business.

One other thing to put into this education is to NEVER EVER meet someone in a neutral county to sell something as then you have to get the gov't in a county in which you cannot vote to do your work.

I had a neighbor selling something who once met someone half way as the buyer was "too busy" to make the whole trip and then gave him a bad check. The seller finally got his money but what a mess it was. All legal dealings had to go through the county where the sale took place and the buyer knew it.
 
Gee, you're really getting into this stuff!!!

FYI, regarding an enforceable contract, it requires AN OFFER,,,,,,,,,,,,ACCEPTANCE,,,,,,,,,,CONSIDERATION,,,,,CAPACITY,,,,,,,,,,,,LEGALITY

failure of any one element nullifies the contract

John T Country Lawyer
 
Don't know how it is in your state but a bad check written for over $500.00 is a felony, in my state. The magistrate will issue a warrant for their arrest immediately, and the sheriff will be knocking on their door. If a third party knowingly accepted the property, they can be charged as an accessory.The tractor will be impounded as evidence.Sounds to me like the sheriffs in your counties don't get along.
 
Hi
Your whole problem lies in your last sentence. A town of 200, Chances are the sheriff, is his dad by different surname, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, cousin or in some rare cases more than one of the above L.O.L!
I know of smaller towns of 500 were you say nothing, as Half of them are cousins or related somehow to the trouble makers.

I just had a customer from a town a ways away call me about a bad payer on rent. She moved in the night plus trashed his house and left the heat on high windows open for the week he was away in - 20oc , he got a tip she was round here in my town or the next nearest, in less than an hour I found her new place, called him and there is a bus load a guys coming here to see her she owes money to.
Not that hard to find them, I just had a truck description. you got the info you need must be some other way than the sheriff, in a small town !
Regards Robert
 
Many years ago a situation like this came up: local guy "hired" a bunch of Hells Angles To do the recovery which they did They also beat the YELL out of the perpretrator with baseball bats He did say they were exspencive but they got results!!!!!
 
Sort of sick humor but this is the truth, I always thought it was a wild tale but, I called a good legal source and cross verified it today.

The county in Indiana where I grew up had a 5 term elected county sheriff (1980 thru 2000) who became a convicted felon (plead guilty to vote tampering) and could not carry a gun because of the conviction. The only arrest he ever personally made after the conviction was overturned in court, because he forgot to read the perp his Miranda rights.

In a neighboring county in 2011
the former County sheriff plead guilty to battery, intimidation
and was convicted of two felonies and four misdemeanors. He will serve one and a
half years under home arrest and another year in intensive probation.

I was reminded of this when High Octane said he was going to the county sheriff for assistance.

Hopefully these are very isolated incidents...but both in the Hoosier state.
 
Way back when, my agency would handle bad checks for any amount. As time went on, they quit doing investigations on small checks. And later, they would not investigate unless the check was for more than $1500. There were just too few investigative resources and too few prosecutorial resources to continues pursuing cases involving smaller amounts.

I have been out of that line of work for a long time and I don"t know what the amount is these days or if they work ANY check cases any more. Unfortunately there are too many more serious and important criminal cases that MUST be investigated to do much with checks.

Is this right? I don"t think so. But it all comes down to money. The citizens do not support the taxing level it would take to fund investigation and prosecution of all the crimes that probably should be dealt with. And the jails and prisons are already grossly overfilled.

When I sell something, I will not accept a personal check unless the buyer and I go to his bank and that bank cashes the check right there. I have accepted checks from people I know, and that has always worked out OK for me. But anyone else can comply with my terms: cash, or the item does not leave my property.

To allow someone you don"t know to write a check and leave with the item you are selling is a mistake! And I bet that it is not one that will be repeated.

As far as recovering the tractor goes, I would suggest researching the law in your state, and probably get a competent lawyer who understands such a problem involved. I think in MY state, the tractor could be repossessed, but it might involve a legal hassle. I would be asking myself if the tractor was worth the trouble. You don"t want to get yourself in personal legal problems!!!

I also would talk to the prosecuting attorney to get their take on the situation. It MAY be possible to report the tractor as a stolen vehicle (stolen by fraud), and have it listed as stolen in NCIC. If so, it MIGHT be possible to get a court order in State Court that requires the law enforcement agency in the county where the tractor is now to impound it. However there may well be impound fees and a court battle with the person who has probably bought the tractor in "good faith". Again, I would be questioning if it is worth it.

I wish I could give a simple solution to the problems, but I don"t think there is one.

Never accept a check as payment for something unless you are pretty sure that the check is good and you can collect your money. That is why MOST businesses no longer accept checks. Good luck!
 
You could have saved yourself a lot trouble if you would have called the bank before you gave him the tractor. If after bank hours waited until the bank is open.
 
Calling bank does not always prove to work..

ie someone stole check out of my mailbox.. redid a bunch of fake checks.. then proceeded to buy all over the area.. because checks had my info,, and my account had money, a call to the bank would say, yes, he has money in the account for that amount.. but when vender tried to cash them, found out they were faked. Vendor got stuck,, call me and raised a fuss. Nothing I could do but explain what was going on, and have the file a police report. I had to get a po box due to rural mail theft. Everytime I put the flag up, some one stole my outgoing mail. Be careful out there.

AS TO REPO... If bad actor has resold it to a third party who paid for it and has a receipt.. He will try to protect his property. Be careful out there.
 
Call the Highway Patrol, one trooper can make one call and the Sheriffs dept might be ready to go to work.(May not, but maybe) I would just load it up and go home, BTDT
 
I have seen these very same incidences many times,,and the bottom line is there is "No" justice,,and why or how did we loose our rights to justice?? And on the Whole a Sheriff is not worth is salary if he won't take actions that he is in office to do...
 
Just my opinion, BUT.....
Seems to me that as soon as county lines were crossed, and more than one county was involved, it became a STATE matter. Just like if a crime crosses state lines, it comes under FEDERAL jurisdiction. The "law enforcement" people in your area seem to be more interested in shirking their duties than enforcing the law.
State police should be the enforcing agency since this incident has crossed jurisdictional boundaries.
 
that is why when I sell something to some one who does live the same county as I do I will only accept cash payments. same thing when I buy I pay in cash.
 
It is absolutely still his tractor, failure to recieve payment is precisely the reason it is a nullified sale. The fact that the check was written on a nonexistent account means chasing the money is hopeless, he has no viable option left except to go get his property.
 
Been away from the board for a couple of days, so am late to the party here. Not sure of the legalities in your state, but in mine, you can do "self help" if you can do it without breaching the peace. If the guy raises a fuss, have him call the cops. If he won't, or threatens you, you call the cops (from a safe distance, of course). Cop will say "Its a civil problem, go to court". But the incident will be on record, and cop should tell the guy not to do anything with the tractor, or he could be guilty of selling stolen property, now that he knows the situation.

If the guy is part of the scam, he'll probably disappear out the back door when cop comes- at which time, the "breach of the peace" is over, and you can load it up, if the cop will let you. And he probably will, when you suggest that if the guy was on the up and up, he would have stayed to plead his case with the cop.

Best way to do self help is when the guy isn't home. When I worked for an ag lender, we'd bone up on the guys habits- if he always went to the auction every week, or took the family to town on Saturday, or some such, that was the time to do it.
 
Not to give you more bad news but did you get a photo ID from the person when you took the check? If not they may have a fake name on the check and that complicates matters greatly.My wife used to work at a collection agency and to solve your problem will not be that easy if you follow the law.The again you could hire a couple big fellows and a rollback and just go get it but then you might end up with bigger problems.Possession usually ends up as the old saying goes 90% of the law in these type cases.Moral never take a check for
more $$$ then you can afford to loose.
 

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