Aluminum pickups

DeltaRed

Well-known Member
Been seeing that Ford is now makeing the F150 out of aluminum,just the 'body'.They say mileage is the reason.700 plus pounds lighter. They are useing special high strength glue,tig welding to fasten it together.The F150 is 90% of Fords business.Pretty big gamble.I'm not sure I could ever own an aluminum pickup. Thoughts? Steve
 
i've got two range rovers, both steel frame with aluminum body panels (except hood and tailgate are steel), both built in the early 90s... steel is starting to rust/rot pretty good now, aluminum on the otherhand looks like the day they made it, there are a couple of spots where there is a little corrosion starting to show where the aluminum meet... dent the panels, not a big problem to pound them back to shape (way easier than steel)...
 
time will tell ,,.trouble is the repair biznez is too complicated..been told the thikness of metal is twice that of steel .. just hope they do good and don't cheapen it over the yrs to the thikness of a coke can .Don't Know Everything ,, .just thinkin, about pig manure and nitrogen and diesel fuel waste in the bed ,, all mixed together after a rain ,,on a very hot humid day ,, something mite go BOOM , simultaneously ..
 
Hopefully they revised their "body" warrantee to include more than just "rust out". If there's no warrantee on paint adhesion , panel cracking or steel/alum reaction/corrosion then watch out. Also collision coverage will be higher. My opinion is we have to start somewhere but Never buy the "first" of anything unless money is no object. Alum. is just the "door opener" for the future use of polymer/composits etc. No free lunch.
 
My concern would be with a vehicle that is even lighter towing a trailer. It will be great for the yuppie crowd but I won't be buying one.
 
My cab on my '79 Kenworth K100 10 wheeler is all riveted aluminum. Despite years of exposure to westerny NY road salt it is still holding up well. It's the steel fuel tank straps, air brake tanks, air cleaner housing, etc that have corrosion problems.
 
Not now.

The jury will be out for 10+ years.

I recall when GM Truck and Coach introduced the new transit busses with aluminum body pannels in 1961(?). Corrosion was a MAJOR problem for several reasons, e.g., road salt, galvanic corrosion due to dissimilar metals, etc.

Moreover, it will take several years for repair shops to work out cost effective and reliable repair procedures and such procedures will be more expensive than the time tested procedures used for steel. Insurance will be higher as a result.

I'll let others be the guinea pigs.

Dean
 
A pick up that won t be a pile of oxidation in ten years, why would anybody want one of those? :) Freightliners have been Aluminum since what the early sixty's? My 2011 does not even have a place to stick a magnet on the inside except the shifter.
I just refuse to pay more for a pick up than what I owe on the house.
 
Freightliner,Kenworth&Peterbuilt have been aluminum for almostsince their inception.As the man said Freightliner was aluminum from day one I believe late 40s when Consolidated Freightways started building them.Ron
 
I'm interested, but I'll wait and watch. I've heard that pioneers can be identified by the arrows sticking out of their chests.
 
Every repair weld I've ever had done on aluminum, and done by real expert welders, it has ruined the adjacent aluminum, turned it weak and soft. I know, person shouldn't weld on frames, but still....
The other thing is, bare aluminum alloys are at the bottom of the electrochemical series, meaning they preferentially corrode and protect other metals attched to them, such as irons and steels. Might be a good thing. I imagine also Ford has coated these frames, to prevent corrosion.
 
My understanding is that construction will be riveted like aircraft which commonly last more than half a century. The only difference is no road salt.
 
I don't know about the pickups.
I belong to the Airstream tailer forums.
As I understand it the aluminum used to build AS trailers in the past was actually three layers of aircraft quality aluminum/copper/aluminum.
It was very resistant to corrosion and would polish to a bright luster.
The new AS trailers are using a different type of aluminum and people on the forums with newer (post 1995 or so) units are getting "the dreaded white power" on their trailers.
Short of rivetting on a patch or replacing an entire section of the skin there is not much fixing them.
 
I had the repair class last saturday on th 2015 f 150. Except for the tool investment, the repairs are not difficult. Tons of electronics and doo dads on the truck
 
If you live long enough, chances are you WILL own an aluminum-bodied vehicle. High-strength steel has been taken about as far as it can go. Composites have been tried, but don't lend themselves to high production rates. That leaves aluminum.

Why? It's all about vehicle mass. Customers have made it clear they don't like small vehicles. But they also don't like vehicles that get poor gas mileage. The easiest way to make a large vehicle get better mileage is to reduce mass.
 
It's a government mandate to up the MPG (bill the current POTUS signed in his 1st or 2nd year in office) so Ford is betting on an aluminum pickup. First reviews seem to like it.
 
Being the only USA auto-company not to whine and beg for US taxdollars was also a big gamble for Ford. Heck they even had their "Blue Oval" trademark in the virtual pawn shop. Now they are the ONLY US company left standing on their own. We taxpayers are out billions thanks to GM and the Italian owned so-called "Chrysler" company.

I'm a "born again" Ford fan. GM now turns my stomach. I guess such companies must take risks and look ahead to survive. Ford also has one of the first US made mini-trucks in the planning state. NOT a mid-sized truck like the Ranger was. A true mini-truck. It might be based on their Transit-Connect van. Only thing Ford ever had that was close was the Mazda rebadged the "Ford Courier." And GM used the Isuzu PUP and rebadged it as a "LUV." Chrysler had the rebadged Misubishi sold as the "Mini Ram 50." Later trucks actually made by the US companies were mid-sized e.g. the Ranger. S10, S15, Dakota, etc.
 
I am one of those fellows that trade ever two years. Have had F 150 since 1979 chevy doors fell off. Ford had me come to Mid Indiana Wed of last week. I picked up a new f150 to drive. I will not get my actual vehicle till second week of Nov. The one I go out of was a 2012 ecoboost four door ,four wheel drive. This truck is identical but the axel ratio changed .20 points.. So far if anything this one runs faster from a stop. One poster mentioned rivets like airplane. I do not see anything but welds. I run E85 and computer right now shows 19.7 over the 3500 miles I have already put on it. Have not had it hooked to a trailer but my 12 did fine with normal things like golf cart or rtv. Never pulled any thing real heavy. Big trucks have had aluminum cabs for years.
 
Isn't there a government mandate or something, that requires all cars, SUV's and trucks improve mileage by a certain year?
 
I think at the time Ford owned a big chunk of Mazda. I had about a 1980 Courier for a while but it was kind of a junky, flimsey thing.
I had 2 LUVs too and they were a much better machine. Had to hold the stick shift in 4th gear with a bungee cord toward the end.
Best mini pickup I ever owned was a Datsun - about a 78.
I've actually considered looking for one to use for general running around.
Toyotas were supposed to be top notch too but I never owned one.
 
Lots of parts on cars in the past have been aluminum. The hoods and trunk lids on the old Crown Vic and Gran Marquis are aluminum. Heavy enough for the cops to use them as rams when they have to.

As pointed out in previous posts lots of over the road trucks have aluminum bodies. If you do it right its a real improvement. I thought people would be more bothered by the V6 getting smaller and the 6.2 V8 being dropped.
 
We had a 1979 Courier at our John Deere dealership as a service vehicle. It was grossly overloaded since the day it was new and we all tried to blow it up. Never happened. When it got over 100K VERY hard miles on it - it was so rusty - the boss traded it in on a first year Ford Ranger. Ford dealer probably junked it. That Courier was amazingly rugged. The new Ranger was we got was not.
 
There are NO rivets in the new F150.

All the body panels are glued or TIG welded.

If you put some sort of coating on the aluminum to isolate it from the steel, and that coating is NOT BREACHED (i.e. scratched, rubbed off, etc.) everything will be fine. That would mean that fit and finish will have to be perfect. No bumps, bungs, or bruises during assembly, and all bolts have to be tight and STAY tight.

If I ever get to where I react to any new ideas with, "Nyahhhh! It's DIFFERENT! Ain't no good! Ain't gonna work!" You all have my permission to shoot me dead on sight.
 
I suspect one issue is the use of dissimilar metals touching each other. Aluminum touching steel when wet creates a battery and rot and/or corrosion takes place. I assume Ford has found a way to insulate places where steel gets near aluminum.
 
Actually from what I've been hearing the new "small" pickup Ford is looking at will be about the same size as the Ranger. They will NOT make it any bigger though.

The new Chevy Colorado is about 90% the size of a full size pickup - or about the same size as Ford's "World" Ranger that is in every other country. Ford won't import it or produce it in the states because it would probably steal some for the F150 sales (that they just sunk billions into for the new aluminum body).
 
Had a 89 ford ranger 4x4 v6 5spd brand new.5spd was,nt geared low enough to pull my 16 ft alum fishing boat out of the landing. The auto locking hubs were a joke!Other than that it was a pretty good truck.
 
I'm w/ JD. I'll never buy another Chevy. Since I can't afford, and don't need, a new truck right now I'll let y'all test these for a few years.
 
http://m.industryweek.com/leadership/ford-taking-aluminum-risk?NL=IW-02&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_1_b&YM_RID=CPG03000001430574&YM_MID=1998
 
Actually the process of creating aluminum has changed so much over the year that the newer car stuff is better than the older acft stuff.Aluminum boats have been used for years and years with little or no oxidation. I would take a new Ford over a steel truck any day
 
(quoted from post at 13:57:18 11/21/14) Ford also has one of the first US made mini-trucks in the planning state. NOT a mid-sized truck like the Ranger was. A true mini-truck. It might be based on their Transit-Connect van. Only thing Ford ever had that was close was the Mazda rebadged the "Ford Courier."

I had a Courier truck, great little vehicle. Traded it for a full size Chevy... what a mistake. A gas eating, ponderous, noisy POC.
 
ford began building aluminum cab trucks in 1974. the W1000 COE semi was aluminum. They continued using a steel cab on the L model but the W and CL series were aluminum. Don't forget the aluminum body Ford AC Cobra roadster built in the late 60s. Aluminum body vehicles is not a new Idea; just one that has not been needed until now in the automotive line.
 
There's a video of one of those new aluminum trucks burning in the desert. It was being tested pulling a trailer and was on fire. Nothing left but a pile of aluminum.
 
Good!

All body panels should be aluminum. I got a 4 year old truck that is starting to rust a little on the tailgate....and it is steel of course.
 
Land Rover started with steel frame copy of military Jeep- prototype was a used Jeep frame. Bodies were aircraft grade aluminum from military surplus aircraft breakers yard- cheap metal at the time in post war England, lots of piston engine bombers and fighters being replaced by jets. couple potential market places had vehicle tax based on weight, England had a road tax by weight just before the war and that was another consideration in case sold to a Scots Farmer(mild Tease Alert!). Land Rover has had long experience with the aluminum, industry has shared in some of its findings. AND now we have the opportunity for FORD = recycled BEER CAN jokes. RN
 
So no real gas engine anymore? Gotta spend another 15k and get the diesel? I have a V-10 in my F-250 and love it.
 
(quoted from post at 11:29:49 11/21/14) There are NO rivets in the new F150.

All the body panels are glued or TIG welded.

.

I was at a Ford supplier few weeks ago that made a lot of tooling for the new F150 truck. They had a full-size painted body, not decked yet and without any trim, just the body. It was possible to see every nook and cranny. Looked it over and saw rivets in many places (where the fenders met the A-pillar, for instance).
 
mkirsh, have to disagree with you on no rivets
in the f-150. quiet steel cowl panel is rivet
bonded to the cab. the apron tubes (hydroformed
part) is attached with adhesives, threaded
fasteners and flow drill screws. the outer body
side panel (uniside) is rivet bonded to the
vehicle structure. the roof panel is laser
welded in the ditch area, and on the a-pillar
winshield flanges. some panels are also
joined with a factory "clinch" process that
locks the panels together. as far as what is
in the truck, the bumpers are steel. door
assembly is made from 6022 aluminum ally. door
intrusion beam is boron steel. door hinges are
steel. the bed floor can only be serviced as an
assembly, the crossmembers are factory welded
into place and not serviceable. winshield is a
structural component and installed with dow
betaseal express urethane. back glass is
installed with butyl tape. the frame of the
truck is a hydroformed high strength low allow
hsla 55o steel member. the core support is
magnesium. outer body panels are stamped 6111
aluminum.
 
And, at the time England rationed steel for autos according to sales. So, making vehicles using surplus aluminum allowed more steel allocation for high-end cars. Plus, the mechano assembly allowed for higher employment. In the first days of Range Rover assembly the line couldn't accommodate the full assembly so the chassis was loaded upside down for running gear until it reached the end of the line. Over lunch, a crew turned them over and they went in reverse to assemble the rest.
 
I remember something about improving fuel mileage. Here is an article where in 2025 54.5 mpg.

I think trucks, cars, and suv's will be put on a diet.

Improving mpg may also put an end to needing a step ladder to get into truck. Lower profile means less wind resistance, better mpg.

2007 was the last year GMC produced the classic body. When I found out all trucks were going to be taller, I bought a classic. Hope they return before I need a new truck or I'll keep mine on the road forever.
54.5 mpg
 
(quoted from post at 12:47:33 11/21/14) There's a video of one of those new aluminum trucks burning in the desert. It was being tested pulling a trailer and was on fire. Nothing left but a pile of aluminum.

That super duty truck had a experimental engine made with a large amount of magnesium components, hence the sparkler effect as the magnesium burned. Government mileage mandates on those too. Ford will be ahead of that game
 
be ok on the hyway, but on the rough roads it will all crack and fall apart as any aluminum unit. such as aluminum decks, aluminum cattle liners, and aluminum trailers... they all crack.
 
These comments remind me of a similar story.
The J.I.Case Threshing Machine Company produced the first all-steel thresher at a time when all threshers were made of wood. They were laughed at and ridiculed by the competitors who wanted to hang onto their market share. Within a few short years, most all threshers of the competition were made of steel or they went out of business.
 
(quoted from post at 09:54:50 11/22/14) These comments remind me of a similar story.
The J.I.Case Threshing Machine Company produced the first all-steel thresher at a time when all threshers were made of wood. They were laughed at and ridiculed by the competitors who wanted to hang onto their market share. Within a few short years, most all threshers of the competition were made of steel or they went out of business.

This. Ford is out front, but GM and Chrysler are right behind, probably in that order. :!:
 
So why do the various military forces in Europe use thousands of Land Rovers, whioh have been aluminium since 1948? If the truck is properly designed, they will not crack and fail, and remember, Ford owned Land Rover for a number of years, which may be where they learned how to build lghtweight vehicles.
 
I don't see a problem with an aluminum body. It's been done on road tractors for a LONG time with great success. That said, I don't see any particular gain with a pickup. Most of us will probably add weight to the damn thing anyway to keep it planted on the road... and the cross members, cab and rad mounts are still going to rot off at the same rate as before so there's no real advantage to extended life of the truck... I don't see a point. The fuel savings of 700# of weight on a vehicle of the same aerodynamics would be absolutely negligible.

Rod
 

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