RV anitfreeze as tire ballast

Mike(NEOhio)

Well-known Member
Location
Newbury, Ohio
A guy came for hay yesterday and was looking at my John Deere and I mentioned the corrosion on the rear rims from CaCl. He said to use RV antifreeze for ballast. Has anyone had experience with this? He didn't say whether to use it full strength or diluted with water. I'll see him again Saturday and ask.
 
Pretty much all the tire dealers around me (Wooster Ohio) use some version of windshield washer fluid.
I'd think RV type would be expensive ?
 
Wiper fluid when on sale can be had for around $1.25 per gal while RV antifreeze is around $3 a gal so which do you want to use both pretty much weigh the same
 
BIG CAUTION........iff'n you use automobile antifreeze fer tire ballast, watch fer leaks 'cuz it is POISON to dogs. Dogs like the SWEET taste of automotive antifreeze.

Iff'n you use RV antifreeze, gitt the UN-USED stuff 'cuz them chunks won't go thru the tire stem. (grin) Dilute per specs on RV antifreeze container. .......Dell
 
I don't farm, but I do have a number of working garden tractors, and I use Rim Guard (beet juice).

I use it instead of WW fluid or RV antifreeze because I get more weight per tire.

The water based fluids above weigh roughly 8 lbs/gal while Rim Guard is roughly 11 lbs/gal.

That makes a big difference, especially in the smaller tires(12x12-12) that I have which only use 10 gal/tire. Thirty lbs/tire is a huge difference
 
I would think that both water and CaCl will cause rust. I'm not sure if RV and antifreeze will cause rust. I know you can put stuff in radiator to prevent coolant from causing oxidation.

I've seen too many rims damaged by ballast, CaCl. Isn't pickle juice and others just another salt?

So, my question is why ballast? I have a backhoe and will never have rear tires ballasted. Instead I use weight distribution. Putting a heavy weight in front loader only transfers weight from rear wheels to front wheels. Ballast in tires does nothing to counter balance the loader weight. It takes an equal amount of weight an equal distance behind the rear wheels to transfer weight back to the rear wheels. Simple physics, lever problems, torque.

I made a 3 pt 1100# ballast weight for neighbor, so his massey can lift 1100# bales of hay. It transfers weight from front to rear wheels.

Before I would use any liquid in my tires, I would invest in wheel weights or make a rear ballast.
 
I just ballasted my Power King tires with windshield washer fluid tires a 8.00X16 got 16.5 gals between the 2 or about 8.5 gal per tire. If you live anywhere it freezes hard and long besure to get the -25*F stuff it cost more then the stuff that's good for 32*F(which if you use that you may as well just use water). I detest Calcium Chloride and looked into Rim Guard but its to costly and my brother who is in the tractor tire business really dislikes it and after talking to him about it I won't be using it.
GB in MN
 
Mike depends on how much weight you need. (Its been several years) but if I remember right antifreeze doesn't have as much weight as calcium. I'm sorry but I don't have access to the charts at this time to give you more info than that. If cal is in there I'd leave it alone.
 
I PUT SOME OF THAT RV ANTIFREZE IN A PLASTIC JUG AND PUT IT IN MY FREEZER OVERNIGHT.THE NEXT DAY IT WAS FROZEN SOLID. I WOULD NOT TRUST THAT STUFF TO BE SAFE IN ANYTHING THAT FREZING WOULD HARM.
 
(quoted from post at 15:03:18 10/29/14) Dell,
That tired old wive's tale about dogs drinking AF has been debunked many times.
It is not true.
My vet told me what he does to treat dogs that drink anti-freeze. He warned me to keep all anti freeze away from the dog. I dont know how much it takes to harm a dog tho.
 
(quoted from post at 11:21:15 10/29/14) I would think that both water and CaCl will cause rust. I'm not sure if RV and antifreeze will cause rust. I know you can put stuff in radiator to prevent coolant from causing oxidation.

I've seen too many rims damaged by ballast, CaCl. Isn't pickle juice and others just another salt?

So, my question is why ballast? I have a backhoe and will never have rear tires ballasted. Instead I use weight distribution. Putting a heavy weight in front loader only transfers weight from rear wheels to front wheels. Ballast in tires does nothing to counter balance the loader weight. It takes an equal amount of weight an equal distance behind the rear wheels to transfer weight back to the rear wheels. Simple physics, lever problems, torque.

I made a 3 pt 1100# ballast weight for neighbor, so his massey can lift 1100# bales of hay. It transfers weight from front to rear wheels.

Before I would use any liquid in my tires, I would invest in wheel weights or make a rear ballast.

You're my kind of guy George.
 
(reply to post at 15:38:29 10/29/14) [/quot

Back in the mid-70's i made a 1300 lb weight for the back of the loader tractor. Works with the 3pt quick hitch so i can drop it off if i need to use the drawbar or PTO. I call it my poor man's front assist.
 
(quoted from post at 14:38:06 10/29/14) I PUT SOME OF THAT RV ANTIFREZE IN A PLASTIC JUG AND PUT IT IN MY FREEZER OVERNIGHT.THE NEXT DAY IT WAS FROZEN SOLID. I WOULD NOT TRUST THAT STUFF TO BE SAFE IN ANYTHING THAT FREZING WOULD HARM.

I have a problem with this statement First off RV antifreeze is used straight it is NOT diluted, 2nd the real stuff is rated for -50*F yes it will get slushy at temps below -50*F but it does NOT get solid. There are 1000's and 1000's of campers that are protected here in MN and we can get some very cold temps I've seen -40*F but not -50*F here and campers with RV antifreeze do not freeze up and burst
GB in MN.
 
George, sorry to disagree with you, but tire ballast and rear wheel weights will absolutely counter-balance front loader weight. The pivot point is the front axle, and the more you put on the loader bucket, the more you need behind the front axle. The farther you go behind the front axle, the more good it will do, but it still does a lot of good on the rear wheels. The front axle acts just like the support on a teeter-totter. Put the heavy kid in the bucket, and the rear comes up. Put the heavy kid in the seat, and the bucket stays up.
 

Is there a recent problem with Steel or are the manufacturers making Rime that much thinner..?

Using Calcium is still the Cheapest, Heaviest Safest thing to do.

If they do rust, it should not be for 20+ years.
Many are still rust-free after 50 years..

Ron.
 
According to tire guys that did my rear tires they put about 300#s rim guard in each tire and have about 200#s of wheel weights each side and hang about 500#s off 3 pt plus what ever the double ring chains weigh for winter FEL use.
Only the chains and 3 pt weight comes off for summer use.
 
Anyone can disagree with me. Please ask a physics major if putting a ballast behind the rear wheels won't transfer weight off the front wheels, where ballast in rear tires will only help keep rear wheels on the ground. I made a 450 pound set of barbells for my backhoe's back hook, T5C terramite. If I pick up the ballast and extend the hoe all the way back, I can transfer all the weight of the backhoe to the rear tires, do a wheelie. Have you ever seen wheel weights lift the front wheels off the ground? Don't think so. There is a difference between wheel weights and using a rear ballast to transfer weight. A rear ballast makes the rear wheels act like a fulcrum too.

Something else most don't understand, when lifting something with a loader, doubles the weight on the front axle. Lifting 1000# puts 2000# axle, weight transfer. Yes, in this case, the front wheels is acting like a fulcrum. A balanced first class lever with a 1000# on each side will result in 2000# on the fulcrum. The sum of all downward forces must be equal to the sum of all upward forces, simple physics.

Going back to the post, the cost of 50/50 antifreeze is $5-8/ gallon. RV antifreeze is $1.60-3/gallon. So, the cost per pound using antifreeze is about $.20-$1/pound. I would still go with wheel weights or a rear ballast, save money and save from replacing rims.
 
The problem with Calcium is the tube will start to leak away from the valve stem and cannot be seen until a hole comes in the rim.Salt+water is far more corrosive than just water.
 
(quoted from post at 07:37:38 10/30/14) Anyone can disagree with me. Please ask a physics major if putting a ballast behind the rear wheels won't transfer weight off the front wheels, where ballast in rear tires will only help keep rear wheels on the ground. A rear ballast makes the rear wheels act like a fulcrum too.
Something else most don't understand, when lifting something with a loader, doubles the weight on the front axle.

I agree with George.
I was involved in this same type discussion on another tractor forum. I took my Kubota M7040 with 2 rd bales to a platform scale to do test weights. With a bale on FEL I weighed frt axle then added a bale on the 3 pt and reweighed frt axle which revealed a lower frt axle weight.
Jim
 
Agree with MNGB. Been putting it in my camper in
MI for 30 years without a problem. My jugs sit in
an unheated barn that I've seen at -10*f without
freezing.
 
ultradog, just as much info out there saying it is true, excerpt from online petmd



Antifreeze poisoning is one of the most common forms of poisoning in small animals, and this is because it is so commonly found in households. Antifreeze poisoning typically happens when antifreeze drips from a car’s radiator, where it is licked off the ground and ingested by a pet. Your dog may also come into contact with antifreeze that has been added to a toilet bowl. This occurs in homes where the residents will use antifreeze during the cold months to "winterize" their pipes. Even if you do not take this action in your own home, it is something to be aware of when visiting other homes, or when vacationing at a winter residence.



It is the toxin ethylene glycol that makes antifreeze lethal. Because of this, dogs will consume great quantities of ethylene glycol before being repulsed by its aftertaste. By then, it is too late. It does not take a significant amount of ethylene glycol to cause fatal damage to the system; less than three ounces (or 88 ml) of antifreeze is sufficient to poison a medium-sized dog. Antifreeze poisoning affects the brain, liver, and kidneys.
 
Of course it did, Jim. And if you would have
extended the bale 20 feet behind the rear axle,
the front wheels would have probably come off
the ground. Surely you didn't have to go to all
that trouble to verify that. The fact is, when
using a front loader, any weight behind the
front axle will counter-balance the bucket
weight. As I said before, the farther back, the
better, and putting weight far behind the rear
axle will relieve front axle weight. What
George said is that putting weight on the rear
wheels did no good when using a loader, and
that part is not true.
 
(quoted from post at 11:28:28 10/30/14) Surely you didn't have to go to all
that trouble to verify that. What
George said is that putting weight on the rear
wheels did no good when using a loader, and
that part is not true.

toolz
I've reread George's post several times and I don't see where George stated " putting weight on the rear wheels did no good when using a loader". As to weighing my tractor with and without a bale on the rear I did this for my own verification. Besides what else does a semi-retired person such as I have to do to occupy their time??
 
Jim- Here's his quote: "Ballast in tires does
nothing to counter balance the loader weight."
Certainly not true.

I envy you for being semi-retired. Slowed down a
little myself, but not to that stage yet. Another
10 years to go...
 
(quoted from post at 09:23:47 10/30/14) Jim- Here's his quote: "Ballast in tires does
nothing to counter balance the loader weight."
Certainly not true.

Certainly is true.

Loader weight is all on the front end of the tractor. A tractor's main load-carrying member is its REAR axle. You want as much of the weight being borne by the REAR axle as possible. Old tractor front ends are simply not designed for loaders and loader-related abuse.

Ballast and iron on the rear wheels does nothing to counter balance the loader weight. Sure, it keeps all the wheels on the ground, but all that strain is still on the front end which was not designed for it.
 
Well now we're getting into what a tractor is
designed for. Ballast is ballast. It's up to you
where to place it for your particular machine.
That doesn't change the fact that rear wheel
weight counter-balances the weight of what you are
lifting with the loader. The definition of
counter-balance is adding weight on one end of a
fulcrum to compensate for weight on the other end.
 
Tx Jim,
You see my point, WEIGHT TRANSFER, which is
different from counter balancing. Counter
balancing is the only thing wheel weights can do.
Putting a weight behind rear wheels transfers
weight off the front wheels and transfers to rear
wheels.

My neighbor understands weight transfer. He feeds
his cattle with large round bales and he's the
one who wanted me to build him a ballast weight
instead of buying a hay spear for the 3 pt.

People who pull tractors also use weight transfer
by pulling higher and lifting the front wheels
off ground, putting all the tractors weight on
rear wheel for more traction.

Torque, levers are covered in High School
physics. And physics is not the same as PE.

I think what's really neat are how weight
transfer hitches work.
 
Are you planning to have the equipment to do it all yourself? Around here no dealer would touch a tire with it in.
 
(quoted from post at 17:00:43 10/30/14) Are you planning to have the equipment to do it all yourself? Around here no dealer would touch a tire with it in.
Please explain?
GB in MN
 
(quoted from post at 11:21:15 10/29/14) I would think that both water and CaCl will cause rust. I'm not sure if RV and antifreeze will cause rust. I know you can put stuff in radiator to prevent coolant from causing oxidation.

I've seen too many rims damaged by ballast, CaCl. Isn't pickle juice and others just another salt?

So, my question is why ballast? I have a backhoe and will never have rear tires ballasted. Instead I use weight distribution. Putting a heavy weight in front loader only transfers weight from rear wheels to front wheels. Ballast in tires does nothing to counter balance the loader weight. It takes an equal amount of weight an equal distance behind the rear wheels to transfer weight back to the rear wheels. Simple physics, lever problems, torque.

I made a 3 pt 1100# ballast weight for neighbor, so his massey can lift 1100# bales of hay. It transfers weight from front to rear wheels.

Before I would use any liquid in my tires, I would invest in wheel weights or make a rear ballast.

Ballast in the tires certainly can help. It works for the same reason that a skinny kid and a fat kid can enjoy a teeter totter together. The tires are rear of the pivot point, granted on a shorter lever arm, but they do help to counter the bucket.
 

One of the big advantages to liquid ballast is cost savings, used wheel weights are selling for $75-100 each, I can buy a drum of methanol alcohol racing fuel for around $200 and mix it with 100 gallons of water to get 150 gallons of -25 degree mix.
Put 75 gallons in each of my 18.4-30 tires which is 14 gallon short of max recommended fill but that gives me around 1125 lbs of ballast, that many wheels weights would cost $750-1000.
Hanging weight off the back is better but doesn't work for me as I'm usually using the loader and 3 point at the same time.
The bale on the back spear helps but there times when putting the last bale on the trailer or taking the first one off there won't be anything on the back.
Calcium weighs 11.3 lbs per gallon
Beet juice weighs 11 lbs per gallon
1/3 alcohol to 2/3 water weighs around 7.5 lbs per gallon
Don't know what rv antifreeze weighs
Alcohol is lighter but I won't use calcium chloride, they don't sell beet juice in my area, alcohol mixed is a dollar per gallon cheaper than rv antifreeze.
If I need more weight than the alcohol gives then I'll look at wheel weights.
 

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