Some info for any one getting a new diesel pickup

26cows

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One of coworkers had a diesel class last week. The dot has made the manufactures put a new code in the engine modules that sets if you put a programmer or have someone tweak the engine program. This is starting in 2015 pickups. This is a latched code. Only the dot and the manufactures can read this code. The code will set in all modules in the vehicles. You can not clear the code. The dot will find it when you sell the truck and goes through emission inspection. Will make it unsellable. Depending how the manufacture scans for codes under warranty the info would be sent to manufacture and cancel the warranty. I know that the scanner I have to use at work for late model vehicles is linked with GM. To use the scanner I have to be on GM web sight.
 
IMO,the warranty should be canceled if the truck get's a shade tree soup up. With the horsepower race between mfgrs,they would come tuned if it wasn't determintal. The unsalable part is a little much but with the grip epa has on the nations gonads,it wouldn't suprise me.
 
These new diesels don't need any power enhancement. They'll pull like you cannot believe right out of the box.

I agree with the others. Good move.

Allan
 
Well it is just more "creeping" communism to me. You are buying the truck it is yours to do with what you want. IF the Manufacture warranty is voided then fine that is between the manufacture and purchaser. The DOT/EPA getting involved is going too far.

As for the "new" trucks not needing "tuned". A good friend has 7-2008 Ford F-250 with 6.4 diesels in them. They have right at 100,000 miles on them now. He can't seem to keep all of them on the road do to constant EGR issues. HE has spent a fortune having them worked on. EGR controllers, EGR valves, EGR coolers, etc. Pickups still throw codes and then detune.

How does this relate to tuners??? We have deleted the EGR valve/system on two of them. Also removed the particulate filter and installed a muffler. This requires a tuner to be used on them. We have them set at normal HP. The tuner is just keeping the ECM from flipping out over not having an EGR valve that is working.
The results so far are looking good. The fuel mileage is UP 4-5 MPG. The engines are not acting up and causing issues. They just run better.

I am beginning to think that the biggest enemy the average person has in this country is the Federal Government.
 
I wonder if the manufacturers are saying that the govt mandated it just so they are not the villain.
On the other hand, I have a 2006 Dodge/Cummins and have NEVER lacked for power. I don't see the neccessity to throw out plumes of black smoke just to gain a few HP.
 
"I am beginning to think that the biggest enemy the average person has in this country is the Federal Government."

BINGO!!!

Dean
 
(quoted from post at 20:10:45 10/29/14) I wonder if the manufacturers are saying that the govt mandated it just so they are not the villain.
On the other hand, I have a 2006 Dodge/Cummins and have NEVER lacked for power. I don't see the neccessity to throw out plumes of black smoke just to gain a few HP.
Try a Juice w/attitude...and hang on! I really made a difference pulling in the mountains!
 
Have been told that the guys who put the big pipe up through the bed on new trucks void the warranty on that truck.
 
Dad just got a 2011 Duramax. 397 HP and ALMOST 800 FTLBS
torque !!!!! Wow. That beast will smoke the tires at 30 mph !!
Anyways, ive got a 02 Dodge 4x4 Cummin 6spd manual. With
the Edge Juice with Attitude 160 hp GAIN. I pulled a 16,000 lb
telehandler + 30 ft GN trailer home to help.in the aid of roofing
the house in steel sheeting. Pulled a hill coming home which is
6% grade for two miles. Topped the hill at all but 55 mph. Im not
racing the engine am impressed with the EDGE. A lot of fun to
set the cruise at 65 and pull a hill in 5fth gear and only loose ten
mph at the top. I dont want/need a NEW & $60K Diesel pickup.
Dont have any emission testing here either !!! Glad for that too.
 
[i:654c4848f0]"I am beginning to think that the biggest enemy the average person has in this country is the Federal Government. "[/i:654c4848f0]

Well said JD.
And all the worse because so many regulations like this are coming from unelected bureaucrats.
 
I just bought a 2012 Dodge, and will be putting a tuner in it just as soon as I can afford one. My 2006 Dodge got 23MPG consistently, the new one 14. I don't need any more power, it will already pull more then it will stop. I am after better fuel mileage.
 

I'd like to see the origin of this story. "DOT"? What dept are they talking about? "DOT", the Feds, don't inspect non-commercial vehicles, certainly don't inspect at state inspection stations and have never been involved in CMV emissions that I know of. EPA? Maybe, but they aren't at state inspections stations either. Maybe there's some arm of the Federal DOT that would do this, but I can't think of what one it is.

Anyone have any original source info or at least the news story it came from?
 
I wouldn't blame the manufacturers for doing that, but it sounds to me like the instructor was using the "DOT" as convenient scapegoat because he knows that nobody is going to try to confirm his story. It supports the typical blue-collar attitude about the government so they will accept it as gospel.
 
I am sure if the government would stay out of the way, the manufacturer's would program these systems for their full potential, it is all the EPA/DEQ mandates that restrict them from doing so, now it appears the government want's to enforce their communist ways right down to the owner. This will be on tractors as well i am sure. This is why I prefer my very old, simple tractors.
 
(quoted from post at 05:05:21 10/30/14)
I'd like to see the origin of this story. "DOT"? What dept are they talking about? "DOT", the Feds, don't inspect non-commercial vehicles, certainly don't inspect at state inspection stations and have never been involved in CMV emissions that I know of. EPA? Maybe, but they aren't at state inspections stations either. Maybe there's some arm of the Federal DOT that would do this, but I can't think of what one it is.

Anyone have any original source info or at least the news story it came from?

Bret while in part I agree with you I think most of the 1 tons are sold to businesses that have to have them DOT'ed. But I've yet to see anyone do a weigh station or road side inspection on one. If the OEM wants to void a warranty on one because of a tuner I have no problem with that. When It was sold it was set up a certain way and that warranty was written with that in mind. Start messing with the settings? OH well.

But I'm in complete agreement that government regulatory agencies are out of control.

Rick
 
Certainly you are not claiming that the manufacturers intentionally sub-optimize both HP and mileage in an intensely competitive market?

In one of my past lives I was a designer of engine controllers for one of the big three, and I can assure you that no such intentional sub optimization occurs.

That said, the federales do micro manage (just about everything), and such bureaucratic meddling does affect (just about everything) both power and mileage.

Call your congressman if not happy with the results.

Dean
 
As a former GM dealer tech, GM has been monitoring the calibrations on the Duramax since at least '04. GM has a set of numbers that can only be read with a Tech 2, and that change predictably with any factory updates. If an aftermarket program is installed into the ECM, those numbers will change outside of the predicted increment. GM has record of what they were the last time an authorized update was flashed into the ECM. In the event of any expensive failures while under warranty, we were required to email a screenshot of those numbers to the Powertrain Quality Center for validation. If they did not match the set on file, the repair was denied and a powertrain warranty block would be put on the VIN. They have upgraded this system to include gas engines as of about '08, I got out due to no money in '09.
 
In Missouri, any COP can ask to see your inspection
sticker certificate. They can also inspect your
vehicle. If they find that you have "modified" your
vehicle (such as removing emission control garbage)
they CAN confiscate said vehicle. The guy who issued
the inspection sticker can loose his inspection
license, too.
 
Not trying to be smart alecky, but in NY you might as well try to whizz into a stiff wind as to talk to our congressmen. Complete waste of time in most cases. Even worse in the case of our senators.
 
I did the same thing on my '08 Dodge. The particulate filter finally plugged (longer than most) and it was going to cost several thousand dollars to replace, only to have to do it again later. I installed an H&S tuner for less money than the new parts would have cost. It made a pickup out of it. Like you said, 4-5 mpg improvement (easily), better torque and driveability. No regrets whatsoever. The federal government will continue to do these types of things as long as we elect people that either don't care or DO want these things to happen. We get the government we vote for. Mike
 
doesn't surprise me.
Autos will just follow the precedents already established
in the electronic industry.
'Purchasing' most software/cd's/dvd's/games and consoles/etc,
doesn't mean you 'own' it.
It just gives you the right to have it at your house.
Example, open any game console for any reason, warranty voided.
Modify anything in there and they know it if you go online and the console will be forever banned from the network.
Cars will follow. Any mod and the warranty will be void.
With new vehicles being connected to the internet, I suppose it's just a matter of time before a 'mod' code will get it shut down until checked by a dealer....

as far as making them better. Sure you could.
I've worked with automotive engineers and believe me, they are as frustrated as we are.
Turn those smart fellas loose without all the beancounters/regs/assembly line issues, and cars could probably....fly


Tractors? It's already here. read about some of the tier 4 systems that will shut the engine down if the computer 'sees'
an emission fault that can't be 'regenerated' and fixed.
 
Most cops I know wouldn't know an emission control from a power steering hose. Anyway I haven't heard of this happening as they are too busy with speeders rather than get dirty looking for some emissions delete. Granted it's a different story at inspection time but there are ways...
 
(quoted from post at 08:45:30 10/30/14)

Bret while in part I agree with you I think most of the 1 tons are sold to businesses that have to have them DOT'ed. Rick

There's boat load of one ton PU's where I live that aren't owned by businesses.
 
(quoted from post at 19:50:59 10/29/14)
(quoted from post at 21:43:25 10/29/14)
I am beginning to think that the biggest enemy the average person has in this country is the Federal Government.



You are not alone!
I agree with every word of it!
 
Guy who used to work at a sawmill nearby, lost his
firewood hauling truck last spring. He had a 1990's
Dodge 1 ton dually, and had put an older motor in
it. Cop pulled him over for a tail light out, and
inspected the truck. He's STILL fighting to get it
back. It happens all the time...
 
Not saying the Manufacturers are doing it on their own, I am saying the government with all their mandatory emissions crap that reduces both horsepower and mileage, eliminate the emissions crap and you will get at least a 10% increase in mileage, most likely much more than that, how is buring less fuel causeing more pollution? That has always been my quesiton, 12 mpg vs 20 mpg, burning less would seem to directly corelate to less pollution.
 
The truck manufacturer has $ billions wrapped up in this issue.

Reputation of the product for durability.

Warranty costs for failures due to excessive owner tweeks.

Certification to meet federal standards for emissions and fuel economy.

If some guy tweeks it wrong and blows it up he does not say " I was an idiot and ruined my engine.....he tells everyone....those darn XYZ engines don't hold up...so don't buy one".

Two sides to every story. What would we blame it all on if we did not have the federal government as an excuse for everything.
 
The biggest trouble, as I see it, is NOT the pollytictions. They ony pass a law based on a need for something. But, then, they don't enforce it. They leave that up to some small bureaucrat behind a desk who is listening to some fool that doesn't like the stink from a diesel at the stop light. So, the bureaucrat issues a 'mandate' and study to EPA or DOT and gets them to come up with some assinine 'rule' that everyone else must go by. That snowballs to some other idiot improving on that kneejerk to something that becomes a PITA and is closer to unworkable. And, we're now stuck with it forever....
 
(quoted from post at 09:45:30 10/30/14)
(quoted from post at 05:05:21 10/30/14)
I'd like to see the origin of this story. "DOT"? What dept are they talking about? "DOT", the Feds, don't inspect non-commercial vehicles, certainly don't inspect at state inspection stations and have never been involved in CMV emissions that I know of. EPA? Maybe, but they aren't at state inspections stations either. Maybe there's some arm of the Federal DOT that would do this, but I can't think of what one it is.

Anyone have any original source info or at least the news story it came from?

Bret while in part I agree with you I think most of the 1 tons are sold to businesses that have to have them DOT'ed. But I've yet to see anyone do a weigh station or road side inspection on one. If the OEM wants to void a warranty on one because of a tuner I have no problem with that. When It was sold it was set up a certain way and that warranty was written with that in mind. Start messing with the settings? OH well.

But I'm in complete agreement that government regulatory agencies are out of control.

Rick

Nut the OP doesn't state "one tons", he just says "pickups and that means all of them. I did a lot of inspections on 3/4 and 1 tons back in the day, but never on emmisions and never did we have any way of plugging into the truck to scan anything. Just seems like a bit of exaggeration might be int he mix someplace.

But yeah, the Feds and some state agencies are out of control.
 
Not exactly on topic, The new Mustang's have a "line lock" on them for drag racers But if you use it it is recorded in the computer and when you take in for service you will have a void warantee
 
"Nut the OP doesn't state "one tons", he just says "pickups and that means all of them. I did a lot of inspections on 3/4 and 1 tons back in the day, but never on emmisions and never did we have any way of plugging into the truck to scan anything. "

My '06 dodge cummins has a socket under the dash that a standard code reader plugs into. It pulls up all kinds of data.
 
It shouldn't matter.....if you buy the truck you should be able to do whatever you want to it...if you do it under warranty then you assume the risk. The government needs to mind its own business and worry about more important stuff.
 
(quoted from post at 19:10:05 10/30/14) "Nut the OP doesn't state "one tons", he just says "pickups and that means all of them. I did a lot of inspections on 3/4 and 1 tons back in the day, but never on emmisions and never did we have any way of plugging into the truck to scan anything. "

My '06 dodge cummins has a socket under the dash that a standard code reader plugs into. It pulls up all kinds of data.

I'm sure it does, but did you ever get a roadside DOT inspection from Federal DOT where they plugged into the socket? Have you ever seen a Federal DOT guy at your local garage plugging into trucks getting their annual inspection? I didn't think so.
 
(quoted from post at 20:38:44 10/30/14) DOT means a lot more than Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration.
Just a few of the other departments of the DOT include Autos; Pipelines and Haz-mat; Maritime; Aviation; Rail; Roads and Bridges; Ect Ect......

Exactly. If it's even true, what secton of the Fed DOT is supposed to be doing this?
 
(quoted from post at 06:23:51 10/30/14) Ah yes. The OEMs spend millions of dollars dyno testing and calibrating their products, but we can do better.

Yep.

To me the question is about selling a tweaked diesel to an unsuspecting buyer. Lots of tweaking I have observed results in shorter engine life.
 

Deleting the EGR and advancing the injection event will make more power per gallon of fuel per hour. At the expense of higher combustion chamber temperatures which increase NOX emissions when the engine is making near to or rated HP.
 
No, they have to compromise between high output and making it user-friendly enough that the idiots who have no clue what 850 lb-ft can do to drivelines and cold transmissions when it's -20 out both get decent vehicle life.
 
(quoted from post at 06:08:19 10/30/14) We get the government we vote for. Mike

Not so!!! We voted Gore in and Bush walks away with the presidency!!!!

MONEY votes not the people!!!
Fat Dan
 
Meh..., i don't care about warranty.
The warranty is Iong gone anyway on the (New to me)vehicIes i buy.
My newest is an 07 GMC 3500 with a D-max IBZ 360 HP 250 K on it,.... best modeI of the d-maxes i beIieve.

No EPA or DOT or any other agency in my parts of the worId anyway.
Anything goes
 

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