Loader Pump To Hot Pictures

Hey guys I appreciate all of the replies. I hope one of you that knows more than me can help me get this going. The loader is a WF3 the controls have Wagner 30300 on them. I didn't know anything about the open or closed valves when I bought the pump i just made sure it was about the right gpm and turned the right way. I hope I haven't thrown away $300.00 on a pump I can't use. Thanks for your time and help.
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Please post the GPM of the pump, the best guess at the RPM the pump is turning and the SIZE (gallons) of the HYDRAULIC OIL SUPPLY TANK. Please post info of any OIL FILTERS in this system.
Bob..
 
Are you using a extra capacity oil supply tank in the line? Nothing seen in the pics. Maybe getting hot due too little fresh/cool oil.
 
I'm wondering about where the "live" oil comes into the valve, and where it exits. Normally, the plugged-off port on the left side of the valve in Pic #1 would be the outlet, and have a hose. And the live oil would come into the valve on the other side. An open center valve will have intake on one side, outflow on the other, so the pump is pumping in a circle, until the levers are engaged, which then runs the loader cylinders.
 
The pump is a gear pump, which means it's a positive displacement, which means it needs open center valves.

An open center valve means when the levers are in the neutral position, the "P" (pump) port is open to the "T" (tank) port. This allows the pump to free flow oil from the tank, through the pump, through the valves, back to tank. This will still generate some heat, but the pump will not be loaded all the time.

This is probably the right valve center. If it were wrong, you shouldn't even be able to start the engine, it would not be able to rev up, would probably stall the engine.

The 4 hoses on top of the valve...

If I'm seeing this correctly, the 2 on the right, in line with the right lever would go to the bucket cylinder (or cylinders). If one cylinder, one hose would go to one end of the cylinder, the other hose to the other end. If 2 cylinders, one hose would go to a T line that connects the 2 cylinders, the other hose would go to another T line to the other end of the cylinders. For now don't worry about which end goes where, just try to get it to move. If it's backward just switch ends with the hoses.

The hose on the left, in line with the left lever will go to a T line, that will connect to the cylinders that lift the loader arms. Since there is only one line, I'm assuming it is set up for single acting cylinders. That is they only have the ability to lift, gravity return. If so, the fitting on the other end of the cylinder (the rod end) will either be open or return to tank.

Back to the valve...

There will be 2 other ports. Look for markings like P, which is the pressure line from the pump. Look for a T, that will be the return to tank.

If the lines are not marked, or marked differently, maybe someone can positively identify the valve, I didn't find that number, but I didn't look extensively. Otherwise it may be necessary to take some lines loose and blow air through to determine what does what... That's the hard way, lets hope someone can identify it.

Hope this helps.
 
just noticed... picture of pump, my crank driven gear pump set up has the intake line on the other port of the pump, ie, intake from reservoir on left side of pump (viewed from tractor seat) and pressure side to the right side (as viewed from tractor seat)...

and valve unit has only four lines visible... 3 line to supply oil to cylinders (on top of unit) and one other line on top next to levers (oil in??), so where does oil exit the valve block? that would cause dead heading...
 
k, looked again, and spotted another line underneath the valve block, so it has a complete flow through the valve block.
 
Mike, i noticed the same thing too, looked again in the top picture, and there is a line on the underside of the valve body on the right side...
 
if that's a galvanized female to female on the
discharge of the pump it will burst under pressure .
 
When ever you get into a situation like this, off comes the hoses or hose ends and out come the air compressor. You can easily test to see which way the air is traveling in neutral and with each lever pulled. Can also determine if open or closed center valve. With that pump you have to have a open center valve. In other words, like others have indicated, when valves are in neutral the oil has to flow right through out the other end and back to reservoir. You still have to make sure you bring oil into right port so the relief valve in stack will protect system. The in port should be clearly marked and the direction of flow from the pump can easily be checked by cranking engine without starting it.
 
looking at your picture its hard to tell but like
someone else said, are you absolutely sure you
don't have the suction and pressure ports mixed up
on that pump?
if you take the pressure line off at the valve and
turn the engine over with the starter does it pump
out oil?
is that the pressure line connected to the bottom
right of the valve? there is 5 lines connected to
the valve correct?
 
Thanks for the replies fellows. The pump don't have a plate on it just numbers. I'll have to try and see if I can find where I bought it. The tank is in the frame of the loader. I put hydraulic fluid I got from Tractor Supply (cheap).Yes it is a lift only no down pressure bucket is both ways.The pump has an arrow by the numbers setting on the tractor the pump turns counter clockwise like the arrow. I took the filter out of the return line to see if that helped but it didn't. I'll get some more pictures tonight and I have a diadram of the valve I'll add to.I'm starting to think that the fluid isn't circulationg with the levers in neutral.I think I'll unhook the return line under the valve and turn it over to see if anything is flowing. Again thanks to all of you and if any of you get another idea to try please let me know.
 
(quoted from post at 08:13:11 10/29/14) Thanks for the replies fellows. The pump don't have a plate on it just numbers. I'll have to try and see if I can find where I bought it. The tank is in the frame of the loader. I put hydraulic fluid I got from Tractor Supply (cheap).Yes it is a lift only no down pressure bucket is both ways.The pump has an arrow by the numbers setting on the tractor the pump turns counter clockwise like the arrow. I took the filter out of the return line to see if that helped but it didn't. I'll get some more pictures tonight and I have a diadram of the valve I'll add to.I'm starting to think that the fluid isn't circulationg with the levers in neutral.I think I'll unhook the return line under the valve and turn it over to see if anything is flowing. Again thanks to all of you and if any of you get another idea to try please let me know.

Don't get caught up with thinking that it is not an open center valve. As it was said before, if it wasn't an open center, the pump would immediately build up back pressure and dead head itself killing the engine, or exploding the pump or some other weak linl in the plumbing.

Make sure you have the supply and pressure and return side hoses connected correctly.

Provide the pump specs. You should not have any more than a 10gpm or so pump. Anything greater, and you are running through the 5 gal of fluid many times a minute causing alot of heat build up. You say you paid $300 for a pump. From similar pumps that I have seen that look like yours. a $300 pump is rated at much higher than 10gpm.
 
Sorry, but a bunch of closeup pictures is not going to show anyone what they need to know.

What we need to know is the circulation path for the oil.

Start at the pump, go from the IN port and follow the hose. It should connect to a port mounted low on the hydraulic reservoir.

Go back to the pump and follow the hose from the OUT port. It should connect to the IN port on the hydraulic valves.

Move to the OUT port on the valves and follow the hose from there. It should lead back to the hydraulic reservoir.

As a test to see if the pump is doing anything, disconnect the hose from the IN port on the valves, and put it in a bucket. Start the tractor up and turn the pump over. It should pump oil.

Reconnect the hose to the IN port on the valves, and disconnect the hose that runs from the OUT port to the reservoir, from the reservoir, and put it in the bucket. Start the tractor and turn the pump over. It should pump oil.

One of these two tests will determine what is going on. Either the system is not plumbed correctly, or the valve is blocking the flow.
 

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