I'm sure this has been discussed before. Can a 5KW generator be back fed thru a dryer outlett? Obvisiously the main breaker would be turned off. Any advice?
 

Dan,

No disrespect but this has been beaten to death on here. Go up to the top right in the red triangle and cick search, when on the search page and type "backfeed" in the search box and enter it, there are many old articles that deal with this subject and some good minds who know the electrical codes.
 
The main problem here is safety for the utility linemen/women if/WHEN you backfeed power to the utility line.

First of all you need a breaker box with a service entrance main breaker....100... 200a. You can't have the old rule of 7 where you can't have more than 7 switches to flip to kill power to the house. Reason is that the dryer will be one of the 6 main 240 circuits directly wired to the meter just as your other high current loads. You cannot backfeed to the power box without backfeeding to the utility.

Ok so you have a main power inlet breaker. Fine! Now all you have to remember to do is to turn it off BEFORE you power up and NEVER FORGET!

Not a good idea and If I were a lineman I'd shake my finger at you. Might just pull your meter and service if I caught you doing it!

The thing about portables is the use of extension cords where you plug directly into the gen, not the regular house outlet. Then no chance of a backfeed.

The thing about permanent installations is the transfer switch where there is a 100% chance there will be NO backfeed, barring a catastrophic event in the power box and after looking at my transfer switch mechanism, that is highly unlikely, highly.

HTH,
Mark
 
If you don't want to spring for the full-up transfer switch you can hook your generator in safely by feeding it to the main panel through its own breaker, then using a mechanical lockout that only allow the main OR the generator feed to be in the 'On" position at one time.
 
You can do it, it has been done, and it will continue to be done.

Just don't make a mistake. Don't be in a panic, or a hurry, or depend on your wife/kid/neighbor to remember to do everything in the exact right order while they are in a panic, or a hurry.

If you always do everything exactly right, then it's not a problem. It's that one time you don't that could come back to bite you.

It's "illegal" most places if not everywhere, but nobody's going to bust you merely for backfeeding your panel. How are they going to know? What the law does is define unintentionally killing a lineman by backfeeding as a crime, and lays out the penalties.

A main breaker interlock device and dedicated circuit is probably the cheapest way to do it somewhat safely. You can also get a partial-home transfer switch and install it yourself for a few hundred dollars. Northern Tool has a 6-circuit kit on sale for around $300 right now.

Really it's neither difficult nor expensive to do it "right," but it's up to you to determine what an acceptable risk is. If going to jail for killing someone on the off chance you make a mistake is an acceptable risk, by all means, knock yourself out.
 
Advice? Yeah...go to lineman school. Get some personal skin in the game. Here, REA cuts you off for doing that kind of hookup. What"s a life worth?
 
I'am getting set up to use my portable 8KW generator and was going to do that but changed my mind after reading the trouble you can get into. I am installing a transfer switch to be on safe side.
 
Yes it can but.
You can kill or hurt someone.
Insurance company finds out.You lose your insurance.
Power company finds out. They will pull your meter.
You will be charged with any damage you do.
You can spend years in court.

I have been through four lawsuits. As a consultant on systems like this. It gets nasty and expensive.
 
"Can a 5KW generator be back fed thru a dryer outlet"

Here we go again, Electrical and Legal questions really draw out the answers, me included lol Although we have beat this to death on here time and time again, hey I will try to provide guidance, then see what other trained professional current in the trade electricians and engineers have to say as well as what all others might suggest. I bet the correct answer is on here somewhere!!!! BUT YOU ARE THE ONE WHO HAS TO DECIDE AS YOUR LIFE MAY DEPEND ON IT!!!!!

QUESTION

I would have posed the question as follows and take this is what you intended: "Can a dryer outlet be used to backfeed a panel using a 5KW Generator"

ANSWER

YES Billy Bob and Bubba, it could be "used" and will "work" (sort of, even if NOT NEC approved)

I was happy to see your addition "Obviously the main breaker would be turned off" which shows youre aware of the hazards of backfeeding the utility and injuring a lineman and understand it so I wont flame on you like I bet some do lol YOU ARE ALREADY AWARE OF THAT AND SAID SO

MY QUESTION TO YOU:

Is the "dryer outlet" a 120/240 volt 3 Pole 4 Wire Grounding????????? Or is it a 240 volt 2 Pole 3 Wire Grounding??????????

If you intend to feed BOTH 120 & 240, you really need a 120/240 Volt 3 Pole (L1, L2, Neutral) 4 Wire Grounding.... (If not you may be using the bare/green Equipment Grounding Conductor as a Neutral (A live current carrying Grounded Conductor A MAJOR NO NO, HAZARD AND NEC VIOLATION)

To feed 120 ONLY, a 2 Pole (Hot & Neutral) 3 Wire Grounding would do.

ISSUE: If your genny is running (but I bet youre not that stupid) and it has the MALE plug youre going to plug into that FEMALE dryer outlet IT IS HOT AND HAZARDOUS.

THE MORE CORRECT AND CODE APPROVED AND SAFER WAY

Use what cords and plugs and connectors and wiring you please so long as its safe and no exposed live parts THEN A CHEAP WAY IS TO USE A SLIDER TYPE RELATIVELY CHEAP LOCKOUT (TRANSFER SWITCH MEANS) DEVICE ON YOUR PANEL THAT ONLY ALLOWS A BACKFEED BREAKER TO BE TURNED ON IF THE MAIN IS OFF.....Then that backfeed breaker (up top by main) is what is powered by your 5 KW Genset (and by a safe cord and plug or wire and conduit etc method)

IMPORTANT NOTE often overlooked by Billy Bob:

If you intend to ONLY switch the Hots and NOT the Neutral, i.e. a 2 pole transfer switch, the genny needs to be configured NOT as a Separately derived Source. WHAT THAT MEANS IS you MUST sever any Neutral to case/frame bond your genny likely has,,,,,,,,,Bond Genny Neutral to the Homes Neutral,,,,,,,,,Carry the homes Equipment Grounding Conductor out to the genny and bond it to its case/frame so its effectively grounded same as all other non current carrying metal enclosures.

SUMMARY

YES IT WILL WORK (subject to 2 or 3 pole see above)

BE AWARE A MALE PLUG (for plugging into that female dryer outlet) IS HOT IF THE GENNY IS RUNNING AND ON

NO ITS NOT NEC OR ANY OTHER CODE APPROVED THAT
IM AWARE OF

MY PROFESSIONAL ADVICE IS TO USE SOME SORT OF LEGAL 2 POLE TRANSFER SWITCH (including a cheap slider lock out at top of panel) AND POWER THE BACKFFED BREAKER FROM YOUR GENSET WITH LEGAL SAFE METHODS/CORDS/PLUGS/CONNECTORS

DONT FORGET MY ADVICE ABOUT SEVERING THE GENNYS NEUTRAL TO CASE BOND

ONE OTHER METHOD IS A SMALL SUB PANEL TO FEED ONLY THE CRITICLA LOADS FROM THE GENSET

Okay theres my take, but I've been long retired as an electrical distribution design engineer SO NO WARRANTY but I believe this is correct or I wouldn't have posted it. BEWARE of non trained non professional (Billy Bob and Bubba who wired their house while drinking a case of beer and it still works by golly lol) or non experienced advice, consult with local authority and your utility company BE SAFE THE LIFE (or fire you prevent) YOU SAVE MAY BE YOUR OWN OR A LINEMANS

John T Long retired EE
 
(quoted from post at 14:09:27 10/27/14) If you don't want to spring for the full-up transfer switch you can hook your generator in safely by feeding it to the main panel through its own breaker, then using a mechanical lockout that only allow the main OR the generator feed to be in the 'On" position at one time.


Please explain-----
[b:713e5b8e01] "then using a mechanical lockout that only allow the main OR the generator feed to be in the 'On" position at one time"[/b:713e5b8e01]
 
something like this:
http://geninterlock.com/product_challenger.html
This one is for a challenger brand panel, but they have them for most brands.

Not as convenient as an autoswitch unit. But as realiable as possible and lots cheaper than either a real switch or the auto type.
 
(quoted from post at 18:45:38 10/27/14) something like this:
http://geninterlock.com/product_challenger.html
This one is for a challenger brand panel, but they have them for most brands.

Not as convenient as an autoswitch unit. But as realiable as possible and lots cheaper than either a real switch or the auto type.


^^^^^^^^ Yeah, what he said. ^^^^^^^^^^^

It's electrically the same as using the Dryer plug, but with the added safety of it being physically impossible to have the main and the generator breakers in the "on" position at the same time.
 
(quoted from post at 18:45:38 10/27/14) something like this:
http://geninterlock.com/product_challenger.html
This one is for a challenger brand panel, but they have them for most brands.

Not as convenient as an autoswitch unit. But as realiable as possible and lots cheaper than either a real switch or the auto type.

THANKS--- ken and NEbeef, very clever. However, I can fabricate my own!
 
Its what I referred to in my post as a cheaper mechanical slider (transfer switch) lock out device. Its at the top of the panel by the main and if the main is OFF only then can the backfeed breaker be ON............Under that configuration the Neutral is NOT being switched and the Genny and Utility Neutrals are bonded and the Genny is NOT wired as a Seperately Derived Source.

John T
 
(quoted from post at 19:25:49 10/27/14) Its what I referred to in my post as a cheaper mechanical slider (transfer switch) lock out device. Its at the top of the panel by the main and if the main is OFF only then can the backfeed breaker be ON............Under that configuration the Neutral is NOT being switched and the Genny and Utility Neutrals are bonded and the Genny is NOT wired as a Seperately Derived Source.

John T

I read your response but must have missed that--Thanks to you also with your very informative post---as always!
 
(quoted from post at 20:05:07 10/27/14) Glad I'm not your utility line man, nor your utility company.

What danger do you see with a [b:9dec650480]mechanical slider transfer switch ?[/b:9dec650480]
 
Youre welcome, but I didn't have the nice URL link to a real product like the other poster did and those are worth a thousand words.......

John T
 
I kind of look at this as you "can" do what you want, just be willing to "pay" the consequences. My kids used to ask if it was still wrong if they did not get caught, they do not ask anymore.
 
I was wondering the other day, if Billy Bob hooks a generator int a dryer outlet and does not throw the main breaker, when the line comes on what happens? Does the generator jump into phase or does it blow up? I have only used our generator twice for short times in the 14 years we've had it, and I just ran a cord to our furnace, which is plugged into a receptacle.
 
When you back feed a genset. Line power into generator. You hear a little rumble then all the smoke comes out. Sometimes the copper comes out with it.Leaving you a stinkin mess.
 
I agree with Billy, its input impedance (i.e. reverse backfeed) is fairly low and it draws a bunch of current and SMOKES..........If you let the smoke out of an electronic device they dont work well afterwards lol

John T
 
Not familiar with the critter. A lotta of the verbiage in this thread
sounded like cobbled up solutions that had serious weak points.

Mark
 

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