Log Splitter Advice?

I have a shop-built log splitter, 3pt hitch mount, with PTO pump. While it is well designed and constructed it is painfully slow, using a pump from a truck hydraulic tail gate. I've considered buying a new splitter but a well constructed Timber Wolf runs over $4K so am now considering upgrading mine which will also require a larger tank and new valve. Any suggestions???

Thanks.
 
Get a larger pump or a different tractor with a larger system. Brother drove his with the 400 Case tractor.

Check around; you may be able to get a used pump that is larger.
 
Factory-made splitters use two-stage pumps to deliver high volume until the log is contacted, then switch to high pressure.
 
i bought a prince pto pump years ago from tractor supply. its about 22 gpm at 2200 psi. run it on my farmall b. works good. surplus center has a bunch for about 500 dollars.
 
I built mine for about $800 using an old lawnmower engine/frame and parts from ASC and Northern tool. 16 gpm on low pressure and high pressure is about 20T with a 4" dia x 30 stroke cylinder. It was a fun project. I posted pictures of it on the other farm site.

The pump was only $200 and required a max of 11hp for full power. I already had the cylinder and the splitter frame and wedge which I was driving with my Ford tractor with about 7 gpm and got tired of waiting for it to cycle. My mower has a 15 hp which was plenty. The rest was just nickel and dime, pump to engine adapter, LO couplings, hoses, adapters, QDs, control, storage tank, filter, pressure gauge.

The thing to keep in mind is large diameter, short length interconnects.

Cycle time is under 10 sec both ways.

Mark
 
You need a pump 2 or 3 times bigger. A tail-gate pump is too small to run at 300-545 RPM and run a 3 ½ to 4 ½” log splitter cylinder. I use a three point splitter with a Prince PTO pump and it works very fast with the engine running around 1200 RPM. A typical backhoe/loader uses a pump that flows 23 GPM @ 1700 RPM. Usually a pump that moves 2.1 to 2.3 cubic inches of oil at every revolution. A pump run at 1/3 that speed needs to be MUCH bigger. My Prince pump is rated at 7.8 cubic inches per rev. Hooked to a 27 horse tractor – it can flow 17 gallons per minute @ 2000 PSI.

Note: A pump making 7 gallons per minute hooked to a 4” cylinder, with a 1.5” rod, and 30” long will cycle out in 2.1 seconds and cycled back in 2.5 seconds.
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We added an additional. Shaft and drive the pump by chain sprocket. Large sprocket driving small sprocket on pump turns pump faster.
 
My splitter has a 2-stage pump I bought from a company in MN, not sure if they're still in business. I'll probably think of the company name later. I bought the control valve from them too. I copied it off a Didier splitter I rented. Hal
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Mine was much slower than it is now, whatever it was. Using the same cylinder. Tractor was a Ford 3000 and the hoses were quite long. Coupled into the outlet under the front of the seat.

Mark
 
A small engine will turn six times faster than your PTO: 3600 RPM vs 540 RPM and will use less fuel than your tractor at full RPM. Also two stage pumps are normal on log splitters. You could try running your existing pump with a small engine or just purchase an engine/two stage pump combo that are already matched for sized and mounted together. Northern (used to be named Northern Hydraulic) sells engine/pump combos and other components for log splitters.
 
Thanks for the great advice and ideas!!!

I had already concluded that the pump was the issue, that Prince was the logical replacement, but didn't know what size/volume I should get. Just measured my cylinder and tank - Cylinder is 3-1/2" diameter x 20" stroke (Splitter will do 24" wood). But tank is a small cylinder 4-1/2" internal diameter x 23" length (about 350 cu in volume)mounted directly above the cylinder and below control valve.

From your advice, seems like I need 20 gpm or greater. How do I size my tank?

My control valve does not have detents in either direction. What do you recommend for a decent, cost effective valve?

Thanks again for all the great replies!!!
 
Like your design. Mine is horizontal, 3 legs, wedge at end away from tractor. Have it on my 8N as it is small enough to snake out into the wood lot if I want to. Also cheaper to run than my bigger 2-cylinders and no diesel fumes in my face (like from my 2010).

What do you have for a tank? From the picture it appears to be rectangular mounted onto the I-beam. Something like that would work well on mine. Just don't know how to size.

Thanks.
 
I still like the splitter that is all self contained.I could never see the logic in running a 30 to 65 Hp tractor to run a log splitter when a 6 to 16 HP will do the job more efficiently. I only cut 4 to 5 cord a year and split all straight grain wood by hand and through allthe wood I can't split in a pile and when I get enough I use the log splitter. I have a TSC Husky 35 ton (12.5 HP) and I can use it vertical or horizontal
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It sounds like you've decided to stay with a tractor driven pump on your 8N.

For the last forty/fifty years, most tractors (like your 2010) run transmission/hydraulic fluid using the transmission housing as a hydraulic tank. The advantages are large volume, and lots of surface area for cooling. Can you clean out your 8N transmission to use it as a hydraulic tank? The folks on the "Ford 9N,2N & 8N" forum could probably tell you if that is practical.
 
for a tank, i used an old propane bbq grille tank, the one with the old style valve they no longer fill. unscrew the valve and wash the tank out real good, let it air out for a few days. i drilled a hole in the top and welded a 1 inch pipe nipple in,a tee, and use a pipe cap with a small vent hole drilled in for the return/fill, then another on the bottom for the supply to the pump. works good.
 
We also run the splitter with our JD H from time to time. Can't move it around but it runs good and very efficient. I doubt that the 2010 would have enough volume and pressure to adequately run the splitter. Also with the PTO hydraulic we can also run it with our JD A if necessary.

If I were going to construct a splitter powered by a gas engine, I would start from scratch. The design of my splitter would require too much cut and paste to make it feasible.
 
It's a factory made splitter from NY. American brand. I bought it used about 10 years ago with the Prince PTO pump for $400. Pretty good deal.
Not sure how much that vertical hydraulic tank holds.

http://www.americancls.com/Products/TractorMountLogSplitters/TractorMountTM24V.aspx
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On the other side of this, being familiar with the common homeowner log splitter, ( the timberwolf does look like a fine upgrade just $$$ ), around here for $1000.00 you are likely to find something decent. I see TSC Huskee models often for example, own a '08 vintage 28 ton, with a 4 way wedge, log catcher and even a cover made for it, just got that. Its got a Honda GC 190 5-6hp engine, very fuel efficient too, the 11 gpm 2 stage pump, and a 6 gallon reservoir, so the cycle time may not be as quick as the 16 gpm pump, but beyond that, (I'm in no hurry when using one of these) it will split the worst crotch wood I can find. I split fresh elm often which is time consuming, hatchet is a must have LOL (strands). I think any brand in this classification would work fine for me, I do like the Huskee, drop on 4 way wedge, ( which mind you, should be able to be done for most of these) and a decent log catcher tray on one side, like the beam design and have seen same fitted with a hydraulic lift, cylinder added to the beam, not sure about the valve, for the price and what you get, for a homeowner and related quantities of wood processed this one does just fine, as would anything similar for the same money, I see them often enough $700-$1000+.

While we are on the subject, I have often wondered if the 16 gpm pump would work with the existing components on mine, 6 gallon reservoir, 4.5" cylinder, not sure of the hose size, it would reduce the cycle time, ( though I have no real need to ) anyone.... could you do that ?

Next model up the 35 ton Huskee I believe has the 16 gpm pump, larger cylinder, 5" maybe, but I thought had the same reservoir, just a for fun question I suppose LOL !
 
Hydraulic tank in best conditions should be at least three times the size of the GPM rating of your pump. On log splitters though - often the GPM and tank size are the same it works out OK. Just gets hot faster. If you split wood at around 10 gallons a minute, that calls for a 10 gallon tank minimum.

I've been buying a lot of my hydraulic parts from Surplus Center. They usually have good prices.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Reservoirs/Hydraulic-Reservoirs/5-GALLON-LOG-SPLITTER-HYD-RESERVOIR-TANK-9-8413.axd

http://www.surpluscenter.com/shop.axd/Search?keywords=log+splitter+valve
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I looked at the Husees and similar. Everything I have found has the wedge on the end of the ram. Tried them and didn't like. Two friends who had them retrofitted with flat push piece on the ram and wedge at end of I-beam. I have an old Bobcat with QD bucket and forks if I need to lift on large chunks, and have picked up a small materials conveyor to take away the split wood.

Also been watching Craigslist and while there are a few in the $1K range, most, especially the decent rugged ones are from $1200 up to $2500 used.
 
I always forget about that, some prefer the wedge on the beam. It makes sense for higher production and if you have a conveyor its definitely what you need. I tried it the opposite way, an old Didier, and I could live with either way, just have to set up how you like, worst thing about doing firewood is working off the ground, nice to have everything set up to avoid it.

The only issue I would have is the gnarly grained wood. I did a large elm tree with a friend, using that Didier, it was a lot of extra work, pieces get jammed, hard to get off, use other pieces to block and push through. Then having to re-feed the piece you are working on, large ones want to roll off the beam, no tray or catcher on this one. The huskee and similar have that gusset to catch the log when you retract, so that takes care of the stuck ones at least.

I see the timberwolf and similar class of higher end splitters have the table on the end, which is nice if you have to run the piece through a few times, ideally nice to match the logs to the wedges you can use and just let it push through to a conveyor, just have to load it. Straight wood helps too LOL !

I don't really care for the vertical position of the ones that do both, being too close to the ground, working bent over etc., so I use it horizontally. Some of these just have a beam or small catches to hold a log, don't like those, you need a table or something, even the log catcher on the huskee is ok, could be larger and have a return edge, engine vibration will shake pieces off and it can hit the filter housing. I put a clamp on the one side to stop that.

I use the loader bucket for blocks, full bucket will keep you busy awhile, I also place the split wood in heavy duty old school jackson wheel barrows, as well as gingerly placing same in the 2 gardenway carts I have, wheel to the stack and the only bending over is when you start the stack, before you know it, its at a comfortable height. One tool I really like is the Lockhart Log Gripper from Bailey's, really handy and very helpful.

I don't see too many of the higher end splitters listed used, but see the ads for new, modern homeowner types, horizontal/vertical, are common, so are the old "low rider" types like the Didier, and there are just as many home built ones too. I saw one with a larger engine on it and it had 2 splitting stations ! It was really interesting, well built, I'd have one side with the wedge on the ram, and the other with one on the beam, each for a purpose LOL !

It's always great to see what people build or how they process their wood, I can totally see a custom build from scratch to meet a need, to save labor etc.


Well regardless, hopefully you get yours set up to meet the need, post back when its done, the firewood is piled mile high and its tucked away for the winter LOL !
 
I split a lot of knots with this one and very seldome run it over 1/2 throttle. Nephew has a 22 ton and has to run it wide open.
 
Hi Bob,
I agree completely with the idea of getting the Prince pump!
If you want to try one before buying, I have one that I replaced because it leaks a little around the seals. And yes, be sure to get the 23GPM version! As for tank size, I would suggest trying it with your present set-up, and if the oil gets too hot, then upsize your tank. I can give you the dimensions of the tank on our splitter. Your 8N should have no problem running that pump, as we've run ours with a 22 HP 'Bota. Now for the valve, yours should work fine except for having to hold it on retract! You can get a valve designed for a splitter, prolly from Northern Tool or Harbor Freight, that has no detent for extend, but a detent for retract.
HTH, Dave

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Yeah, I hear you on that! I've often thought of converting our 4' horizontal and adding a table, but just haven't gotten a round tuit!

This is how I load the big ones!
Sugar Maple 3' long & 3' in diameter!

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I process all my wood for our OWB at 3' long!

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I've got the huskee 35 ton horiz/vert.Great unit and I really like it.I also have a 20 ton Brave horiz.A good splitter as well but can be slowed down in some knarly wood.
The vert. mode on the 35 toner is great on the big heavy rounds.
I split about 12 standard cords a year and use maybe 6 to 8 gallons of gas to do it.











 
Your loan offer sounds great! Will give me an
opportunity to see what I need. I just calculated
that my tank is only 1 Gal so I am sure it needs
upgrading. Will check with JR tomorrow to see what
he might have there in his yard and then let you
know. Is the pump at the farm or up at your place?

JR also has a long splitter, wheels on the back
end, that has a Prince PTO Pump - works good. I'll
see what he has for a tank on that.

My splitter is one that Teddy Chamberlain built
years ago. I bought it for peanuts back in the mid
'80s (think he asked $75) when he and Steve got a
Supersplit. Doesn't owe me anything.

Was down at RH White's today getting a couple of
Stihl parts and checked out the Heavy Duty Model
Super Split he has there. Upgraded with the 6.5Hp
Honda and production table, and ultra-wide
flotation tires. Pricey but nice (over $2900),
much more rugged and better design than DR's Rapid
Fire Splitter. People I know who have used this
model claim they put through over 2 cords per hour
 
Transmission, hydraulic and rear end are all one reservoir so there is only one fill. No remotes but a single plugged port on the bottom of the hydraulic portion. I have removed the plug and have a pipe running through a ball-type shut off to a T with hoses to both lift cylinders on an old Wagner pipe-style manure loader. You have to chain the 3pt hitch lift arms down to prevent them from raising to full up position to pump fluid out to the loader cylinders. Archaic now, but it was sure a god send to farmers back in the late '40s when it came out.
 
Thanks for the info. Prices look great. I'll check them out now.

We have been using a rubber tarp strap to hold the valve lever in retract position so we can deal with the wood or put another piece on the splitter.
 
Some neat looking old iron there! Is that a Shaw or an Economy Tractor in the background, or something else? What is the splitter mounted on? Looks like it is about the size of my 8N.
 
If I didn't already have a well constructed, rugged 3pt hitch splitter, I would buy a self contained one.

I too usually split by the "Armstrong Splitter" method, as my dad used to call it. Normally I have wood that is fairly straight and decent. However, I have had logging crews here at the farm for the past two summers, and on another large wood lot several miles away for the two before that, doing selective cut and forest improvement. They have left me copious amounts of firewood, tree tops, twisted stuff, anything that wouldn't work on a grapple load, hardwood pulp, pallet wood, etc. Some of the pieces are too big for my 24" bar to cut through. So I am forced to use a splitter on much of it.

Picture was taken of the last of 3 log landings about 30 minutes before they shut down the slasher/loader for the last time. The wood along the tree line is the smallest/straightest I have to deal with. Other landings have probably close to 30 cords of really ugly stuff.
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Well there's your answer right there that 7 gpm isn't enough to do much with a splitter. Besides you have to be running at PTO rpm to get that and I seldom did.

Mark
 

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