Insurance question on hazzards on property

JOCCO

Well-known Member
Been a lot of talk lately about decrepit buildings, trampoline, swimming pool or ugly breed of dogs, causing insurance issues. Even some companies not writing it due to you have some sheep or a horse. MY QUESTION IS THIS: There is no mention of large dangerous trees They never ask for an arborists opinion or have them removed. Twice this year I have seen them fall on a house due to storm one case was lots of $$$$$ in damage Your opinions
 
When I was evaluating properties for insurance companies before they wrote a policy on the property, if I saw a tree that was a potential problem, I had to include a photo and description in my report.

A limb hanging over a roof, a tree that was split, looked like it had been storm damaged, appeared to be ready to fall over, all had to be reported, and the insurance company took what ever action they deemed appropriate.

However, if a policy was written without a physical inspection on the property, there would be no way for the company to know about the tree and the company would most likely be on the hook for any problems after they issued a policy.

I called a lady for an appointment to inspect a house once, and she replied she wasn't living there. She said she'd bought the house, closed on it, moved in, and five days later a tree fell over on it.

I don't know what the outcome was. On my part all I did was close out the inspection and move on.
 
What type of problem?

A policy is a contract. Standard home owners policies have coverage's, exclusions and what the homeowner has to do on their part to meet their end of the contract. That's a lot more than make a payment. Things like repairing the roof or a window. Adding a pool or trampoline that were not there when the policy was written normally have to be reported to the company and may require a fence. Putting one in without telling the company violates the policy in most cases and therefore would not be covered. Company may refuse to issue a policy because of a dilapidated building. Many people without regard to ownership love to explore old buildings or at least come on the property to take pictures. It's called an attractive nuisance. That means it attracts people in. That can include old machinery too. It raises the likely hood of a claim. So the insurance may be higher or refused because of them. Dogs and the likelihood of an attack can be researched. When one breed is responsible for the highest number of reported bites the insurance company may decline to insure someone who owns that breed.

So, if you follow that contract you should have no problem. If you don't the policy may be canceled or a claim denied. So what's the problem?

Rick
 
The thing I remember most when studying insurance law way back years ago in law school was THE CONTRACT RULES AND THE COURTS APPLY STRICT CONSTRUCTION (absent an ambiguity) and adopt the four corners approach, which means in laymens terms ITS WHAT THE CONTRACT SAYS THAT COUNTS and NOTTTTTTTTT what I or some other lawyer say or some laymen on here says that matters or what should or should not be or is covered or not covered...THE CONTRACT LANGUAGE DETERMINES WHATS COVERED AND WHATS NOT COVERED.

That being said and in the defense of the homeowner and to his advantage, the Courts will construe a contract to a certain extent (if ambiguity exists) against the contract writer (insurance company) and in favor of the homeowner. That doctrine has to do with arms length negotiations, i.e. the insurance company with their cadre of lawyers has an advantage over the average homeowner. HOWEVER insurance companies are well aware of all the above and that which favors the homeowner SO THE CONTRACTS ARE WRITTEN TO AVOID SUCH SITUATIONS.


QUESTION So if a tree falls on your house does your insurance cover it???????????

ANSWER Read the contract!!! it will tell if it is or not and it doesn't matter what I or Billy Bob or Bubba say or what their contract says ITS WHAT YOURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR CONTRACT SAYS

QUESTION if a tree on my property falls and damages my neighbors home am I liable for his damages ?????????

ANSWER MAYBE The Defendant has a duty to NOT expose the Plaintiff to a reasonably forseeable risk of injury. RELEVANT FACTS did the tree show damage or problems which would lead a reasonable person to know or should know a wind might topple the tree???????? ie was the Defendant NEGLIGENT

So the answer to your question can ONLY be determined by what YOUR contract says NOT BY WHAT ANY OF OUR CONTRACTS MIGHT SAY...AND PROFESSIONAL OR LAY OPINIONS ARENT WORTH A WHOLE LOT IN THAT DECISION, ITS THE COURTS JOB TO INTERPRET THE CONTRACT SUBJECT TO THE COMMON LAW IN THEIR JURISDICTION. These are not so much FACT questions for a jury or a Judge (tree fell or not and experts might render opinions) as they are LEGAL questions, although, sure, some fact issues my be present for a jury or judge to decide. HOWEVER a jury does NOT decide the law (only facts if in issue) that's a function for the Court.

Dis I mention READ THE CONTRACT not what we say LOL

John T Country Lawyer
 
I think John T sums it up.....Read the insurance policy.

Also, I think trees falling are covered under an act of God. (last I checked God almighty does not have an insurance policy.......He does'nt need one.)
 
You're right in that a wind storm is an Act of God, however, if your tree is way too tall and leaning over your neighbors house, never been topped although it obviously needs it, is split and just waiting to fall and such is in plain view and obvious to a reasonably prudent homeowner, DONT THINK YOU MAY NOT BE LIABLE TO YOUR NEIGHBOR when that Act of God wind storm topples it and trashes your neighbors house or car!!!!!!!!

However if its topped and trimmed and in good shape (you're NOT negligent) yet a bad storm blows it over, you may well get off scott free by that Act of God....

Remember, Negligence is concerned WITH A REASONABLY FORSSEEABLE risk of injury, NOT any risk of injury........

John T
 
I just got insurance on a rental property. I didn't even bother getting quotes until we had a monster maple tree removed from the back yard. Even then, most companies wouldn't give me a quote because it had been unoccupied for several years. I'm certain we wouldn't have been able to get insurance with the tree still standing.
 
Had insurance guy come to house once for look around,,, told me that tractor in the yard had to go ,,, somebody might trip over it.I told him that i changed my mind bout changing companies
 
My experiance has been, if you are a current policy holder the insurance company will give you the run around. No we won't cover that, can't cover this, this isn't in your policy and we can't add it in, and on and on and on. If you are looking to take out a policy, they will say "Oh Ya, we can do that" because they want your business. Once they have your business you can forget it, because they already are getting your premiums and figure they not have to work with you anymore and you will just stay with the company assuming all company's are the same. Decide what you want covered for, if your current insurance won't work with you, drop them in a heart beat and go to a company that will. But don't plan on making any changes after the move. Know what you want and get it taken care of at the time of the move.
 
John: I guess I was wondering when they would start looking in to action needed or exclusion related to this. Seems to be absent in my area, other things, trampoline, was a hot button issue for a while.
 
Yeah I hear what you're saying and don't know the answer and most people just ask their agent, but what the agent says dont count like what the contract says. If I draft a contract I put some boilerplate language at the end that says something like whats here in writing represents the entire agreement among the parties and any verbal statements don't mean diddly squat lol

That's the "Four Corners" doctrine, whats within the 4 corners of this writing is all that matters NOT verbal agreements. There's also the "Parol Evidence Rule" that excludes/bars oral testimony to contradict whats clear and in the writing. If you jump up and yell "but he told me different"
an objection could be sustained THE COURT SAYS GET OUTA HERE, WE DONT WANNA HEAR IT LOL

John T
 
I asked the insurance agent if I was covered for damage from tree on my property. He said if I knew the tree was bad and did not take care of it then I had no coverage for damage. When you ask the insurance people about coverage from tree damage before it happens they interpret that as you know the tree is bad.
 
To me the question was:

Why don't the insurance companies seem to care about trees?

NOT:

Does my insurance policy cover me if a tree falls on my house?
 
I was told that as well with some of mine a few years ago. I had 3 of them sitting next to the shop. The adjuster had come out in the middle of October saw them and nothing was said until the middle of November when the premium bill showed up. I was told they needed to be moved before they would insure the shop. I went in an chewed them out that I should have been told that a month ago so I could move them. You know how it goes with a tractor sitting, ice in the transmission so I couldn't move them till spring.
 
Another thing here is insurance law varies from state to state. So if you are in question about your policy you should consult a lawyer or the insurance company itself. Here an agent has to know the different policies to become licensed. They really don't have to have any knowledge of laws or adjusting. So your agent is not the best person to ask questions of. I laugh at my agent. He thinks he knows it all but really doesn't know a lot about what is and isn't covered. I will give him credit, he does know the policies inside and out. He really hates for you to tell him call the company and put it on speaker. It's really funny to watch him right after he's told you something isn't covered and the company says, Oh yes that's covered.

Rick
 
In Indiana, if a tree is dead and it falls on your neighbors house, it's your fault and your insurance will pay. I have heard of a guy who bought a new house and his insurance company canceled his policy because of old trees. If tree is alive, falls on neighbors house, it called an act of God.

As for trampoline, swimming pool, and ugly breed of dogs some insurance companies will have an issue.

If a landlord allows a tenant to have a dog, trampoline, or swimming pool and something happens, the landlord pays because he allowed the tenant to have them. Tenant's Dog bites someone, landlord pays. Someone drowns in a pool, landlord pays. Someone is injured on trampoline, landlord pays.

My insurance company asked me if I allow my tenants to have Dogs, trampolines and pools. I said, Yes, Tenant's Pit bull loves jumping on trampoline, then dives in the pool.
 
I have home insurance with an independent agent. My annual premium went up about $175.00 and they said it was because "cost to rebuild" has increased.
I checked with two other companies and their premium was MUCH higher and the agent informed me that there was no coverage for wind and hail caused roof damage!!
Also no flood coverage which didn't surprise me.
I remember back years ago, a shade tree, within a certain distance from house, was insured if it died or was blown down. Actually collected the maximum of $450.00 for a tree that lightening struck.
Tree value was paid, not property damage if there was any. That was dropped years ago!
Looks like all insurance companies get together and decide what they are going to exclude--as a group!
Same thing with auto insurance. I have had SF auto insurance for over 40 years and I still have non deductible comprensive coverage because I have been with them so long. I have not found another company that has non deductible.
 
After I learned my insurance company wouldn't
give replacement coverage on my shingles, I went to
an independent agent and they found what I wanted.

2 years later, trees fell on house and garage.
Insurance paid off big time.
 
Well, a tree could be an obvious problem that can't be seen for lack of common sense. Bought this place a couple of years ago, guy came out and did a physical inspection. When we got the report it was quite laughable. Building #4 had a tree leaning against it... this was the old outhouse, that also had no back wall, but that wasn't an issue. Also had another building that they deemed needed a new roof. How do you tell the insurance company that it just happened to fall over and burn early one Sunday morning? They never said anything about the 2 huge cottonwoods that were leaning over the garage...
 
(quoted from post at 23:30:17 10/17/14) After I learned my insurance company wouldn't
give replacement coverage on my shingles, I went to
an independent agent and they found what I wanted.

[b:234983771e]2 years later, trees fell on house and garage.
Insurance paid off big time.
[/b:234983771e]
George, was damage covered recently? What I am referring to was just last week. Maybe some insurance companies still cover, the two I checked with do not. May have something to do with me living in the South.
 
The thing that kind of scares me about trees, are the ones that I see in cities between sidewalks and streets. I went through a town after a tornado passed through and the high winds blew trees over. Trees, huge trees lying in the streets because the roots were shallow and ran between the streets and sidewalks only. They didn't go under the streets of sidewalks, just between them, penned in by the streets and sidewalks and very shallow. I had never thought about that until I saw it first hand. To see that, you could almost get the idea that you could push one over.

Mark
 
Yes, damage was in spring of 2011. I had trees on
two different homes and damage to 3 garages. All
got new roofs. I still have the same coverage.

I learned that Farm Bureau won't cover shingles
that are more than 15 years old. Farm Bureau was
the company I dropped after they only paid $1500
on a $5400 hail claim in 2009.

In 2012, I had my tree man cut down 12 trees near
buildings and trimmed back another 6 trees.

Insurance paid to have 3 trees removed form
buildings in 2011. I WILL NEVER HAVE TREES THAT
CAN FALL ON BUILDINGS AGAIN. I HATE TREES.
 
What in the heck do you do if you live on one of those municipalities that like trees more than people? When we lived in Florida we had a live oak that hung over the house, would of liked to cut it down but it was a "native tree" and larger than 4" butt diameter so the county wouldn't let me cut it down.
 
(quoted from post at 23:30:17 10/17/14) After I learned my insurance company wouldn't
give replacement coverage on my shingles, I went to
an independent agent and they found what I wanted.

RC on shingles is getting rarer... too many wind losses and too many crooked roofers doing free inspections and claiming roof damage from recent storms, even if they are not so recent, just within the time to report a claim. Insurance companies (like the company I work for) have replaced a lot of old roofs past their prime with "roof damage". Also cosmetic damage to roofing is starting to be excluded (like hail damage to a roof where there is no roof penetration). Contrary to what you may feel homeowners is a losing business right now, can't get enough rate to pay for the weather damage. Don't be surprised if you see your company get out of that business or cut way back on what they will write. Ask the people in Florida what happens when the free market is too restricted by over zealous regulators that won't approve rate changes or coverage changes and most of your companies operating there leave or stop writing new business.
 

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