Don't know whether to be happy or sick about it

rrlund

Well-known Member
I thought the cotter pin came out of the gear that drives the hydraulic pump in the 1850 Oliver yesterday and that the top was going to have to come off the transmission and read end. I figured before I went that far,I'd better check the PTO shaft. I engaged the PTO clutch and put a big pipe wrench on the shaft. It turned. I pulled the shaft out and the splines are gone. AGAIN. I just put that new shaft in there about 14 months ago. The hub in the center of the flywheel must be getting bad.
So the good news,I don't have to take the top off. The bad news,I'll have to pull the engine to change that hub and the shaft alone is over $500,vs a few cents for a cotter pin. Plus what the hub is going to cost.
Wouldn't be quite so aggravating if the 1550 wasn't sitting here with the engine out waiting for the clutch to come back from the rebuilder.
 
rrlund: I know margins are tight right now but may it be time to UPDATE some tractors. It seems like you have had a run of bad luck this year. Didn't you have the HI-LO out of your big tractor earlier this year???

The worst this is AGCO has no mercy on the cost of new parts. I need the little "U" shaped strap that keeps your lift arms from floating. It was over $75. The cross pins where just about as high. I made them out of a Cat I top link pin. Prices are just crazy on some things.

I bet that you will have close to a grand in it before your done.

Are the 1850s the ones that threw the rods out the block unless you updated the connecting rod bolts???? I remember it was one model of the 310 motor just not sure on the tractor model.

Also some Oliver 1850-1855 had the Perkins motor. That was a better setup.
 
I got the Over/Under fixed. The Agco dealer did it. The bill was $3343 on that,and the labor was only $550. Can't kick on that at all for everything that was wrong when they got in there.
My 1850 has the 354 Perkins. Great engine. The 1855 had the 310 that had problems. They wised up and went back to the 354 in the White 2-85 and 105.
I put a clutch in that tractor last summer,about a month after I put that new shaft in. I thought that hub looked good when I put the clutch in,but I guess I was wrong.
That darned 1550 would have been back together if the boy hadn't made an off hand comment when he dropped the clutch off at Clutch Dynamics a week ago Friday. They told him they could probably do it Monday and he said "No hurry",so they didn't.
I'll call Jerry tomorrow on the shaft and see if he can make any adjustment on it for going out so quick,but if he can't,I'll chalk it up to sharpening half a pair of scissors I guess.
 
I'm not gonna comment on the tractors because I'm not familiar with them. Just going to say that conditions this year are hard on equipment. When I add it all up at year end I think parts and repairs are going to be a larger percentage than normal. Brand doesn't have much to do with it either. CIH is friggin merciless with their parts cost also. The up side to older equipment is that there is a lot of it at the salvage yards.
 
Ya,I sure can't complain on how little time it takes to get parts for these. I'm sure I could have had that clutch the next day if I'd have gotten a new one instead of sending that one with the boy. It's real rare that things aren't here UPS the next morning. Unlike at the "other green" place where it didn't matter if I called or spent two hours on the road going there in person. In the last ten years that I did business with them,absolutely without exception,the part came the next day,but it was ALWAYS wrong the first time. So whether they sent it to me,or I went to pick it up,I wasted two hours on the road either by having take back the wrong part that was shipped to me,or another trip back the next day when they got the right part in the second time.
If I did replace these with something newer,it'd be a silver one.
 
My heart goes out to rrlund - he's had a nasty series of breakdowns. But yes, Dave is right this has been a hard year on machinery. I've had a few nasties - expensive repair parts, etc. too. Have spent the past several days working on putting things back together. Manure spreader is in shop for rebuild the rear end - gearbox supporting parts have fractured too many times. Flail type spreaders are a nasty hard on components units..

That said, the weather has been against the farmers all summer, especially haying. When we did get a break, we tended to push just as hard as we dared to get the job done ahead of the next rain. Pushing equipment is never a good idea.........
 
rrlund: Is there any way the alignment between the motor and over/under could be off. Can you adjust that??? I have not worked on an Oliver over/under in almost 20 years now. It just sticks in my mind there was a way to adjust/shim the engine alignment to the over/under/transmission. If that was off it would eat on the splines on the shaft.
 
Troubles happen in threes so you should be done with them for the year!
A guy can hope can't he? LOL
 
Took the time to look up those tractors you mentioned. I am a big fan of those and all Olivers, but I really like those. If I had not started with IH back in the beginning, I would for a certainty have picked Oliver. I just like em. Having said that, I would wonder if you wouldn't be doing a good thing to add one of the larger IH tractors? I hate to say it because sometimes I swear there is a gremlin that follows me around messing with everything I say, but I have great luck with my Internationals. Be a good back up for you.
 
This year has been murder on machinery. It seems like everything has needed thousands in repairs and bean harvest hasn't even started. I need to order new stainless for the flex header and that will be about $1400 and a mess to put in. If it could break it has. It it could go flat it did. If it could annoy me it tried. I'm almost ready to see snow fly just so that animals are almost all I have to worry about. Except the loader tractor. And pipes freezing. And block heaters. And frost heaving those shed doors. And the babies that will be born in the snow. Never mind.
 
I don't think it's off. I put that new shaft in right in the hay field and it slipped right in. Same thing when I put it back in after I put the clutch in. Pretty sure that hub is the problem.
 
I had a 706 years ago that soured me to those things forever. It's a good thing it finally broke a sleeve and slapped a piston through the block because it was about to give me a nervous breakdown. I've had 3 tractors in my life that were flat out junk,that 706,a 3010 Deere diesel and a Deere 730 diesel. I would have loved to have been the one who got to run those things through a shredder and sent them off to China.
 
(quoted from post at 06:55:39 09/21/14) [b:ca05e68718]I got the Over/Under fixed. The Agco dealer did it. The bill was $3343 on that,and the labor was only $550.[/b:ca05e68718] Can't kick on that at all for everything that was wrong when they got in there.
My 1850 has the 354 Perkins. Great engine. The 1855 had the 310 that had problems. They wised up and went back to the 354 in the White 2-85 and 105.
I put a clutch in that tractor last summer,about a month after I put that new shaft in. I thought that hub looked good when I put the clutch in,but I guess I was wrong.
That darned 1550 would have been back together if the boy hadn't made an off hand comment when he dropped the clutch off at Clutch Dynamics a week ago Friday. They told him they could probably do it Monday and he said "No hurry",so they didn't.
I'll call Jerry tomorrow on the shaft and see if he can make any adjustment on it for going out so quick,but if he can't,I'll chalk it up to sharpening half a pair of scissors I guess.
shock:,rrlund...I think i would've looked for a parts tractor.!
You can get a running 1850 for that money.
Both my 1855's where under $3500, turn the key and go, never had a mayor break down yet.
Last year I picked up another one for $1000,it's complete but needs an engine rebuild.( i can do that for under 3 grand).

I was wondering if that PTO shaft can be rebuild?..
 
That kind of money doesn't buy much. These guys were an Oliver/White dealer and know those units inside and out. No point in putting an old one in there and taking a chance. It's no picnic taking them out and putting them back in. It's too nice a tractor to be tossing used parts at anyway.

That shaft's toast I'm afraid. There's a pretty good machine shop here that I use,but they won't attempt splines like that. It's quite a fine spline.
I just looked up the hub,it's $148. Like I said,I don't know if they'll give me a break on the shaft or not,but it looks like $675 will get the shaft and hub. I just wish I'd had the good sense to change the hub last year when I put the new clutch in. Live and learn.
 
And now you wants to drop the oilallovers for the whites? Did it ever occur to you that there might be something else going on here? Yer runnin out of brands!
 
No,I'm not ready to replace them,but for a tractor the size to replace them I'd most likely go to a 2-85 or 2-105 to stay with the 354 Perkins and with the dealer that treats me so well.

Speaking of the dealer and labor though,at that barnyard social Friday,a guy asked me about that Over/Under rebuild. When I told him the labor was only $550,another neighbor Richard stood there with his jaw dropped shaking his head. He said "Geez! They like you don't they?". He's got a Case,a 2090 I think it is. He said there's a bearing in there somewhere,behind a clutch pack the way he described it. That bearing went bad. He took it to the CaseIH dealer. They had to split it of course. He had them put new brakes in it "while they had it apart". He said the bill on that was over $12,000.
Ya,I'll stick with the Olivers and Whites and the Agco dealer.
 
The 1850 and the 1855 had different hydraulic and PTO setups did they not???

I know I owned a Oliver 1755 for just a short while. It had a closed center hydraulic system with the hydraulic pump mounted on the side of the tractor externally. That tractor always seemed under powered. My 1655 would out work it.

Then my Oliver 1655 would be more like the earlier 1800 with the central hydraulic pump that is internal with the PTO shaft running through it.

I have had that shaft out of my 1655. When it just had 1500 hours or so the transmission input shaft locked up in the needle bearings it ran in. Never could figure out what caused it to lockup.

On your 1850 that shaft runs through a angle gear drive for the hydraulic pump???
 
Correct on the 1855. Closed center hydraulics with the pump on the side.
The 1850 pump is internal open center like the 1655. The pump doesn't run directly off a gear on the PTO shaft in the 1850. The shaft runs through a helical gear that permanently mounted in it's own bearings. There's a gear mounted on it's own bearings in the transmission cover,then there's a short shaft above the PTO shaft that has a larger helical gear on it. That shaft runs in needle bearings in the housing,front and rear. All there is,is a big cotter pin that holds that gear to the shaft so the shaft turns in the bearings and the gear doesn't spin on the shaft. That gear runs the pump drive gear off the PTO shaft gear. I thought what had happened was that the cotter pin had broken or come out somehow and the shaft slid out of the gear on mine,but that wasn't it.
The White 2-85 and 2-105s used the 1855 transmission and rear end with the better brakes and the closed center hydraulics,but they went back to the 354 Perkins engine. The best of both worlds. The difference between the two was that the 2-105 had a turbo.
 
(quoted from post at 10:03:25 09/21/14) That kind of money doesn't buy much. These guys were an Oliver/White dealer and know those units inside and out. No point in putting an old one in there and taking a chance. It's no picnic taking them out and putting them back in. [b:a6b7f43a13]It's too nice a tractor to be tossing used parts at anyway.[/b:a6b7f43a13]

That shaft's toast I'm afraid. There's a pretty good machine shop here that I use,but they won't attempt splines like that. It's quite a fine spline.
I just looked up the hub,it's $148. Like I said,I don't know if they'll give me a break on the shaft or not,but it looks like $675 will get the shaft and hub. I just wish I'd had the good sense to change the hub last year when I put the new clutch in. Live and learn.
ll the parts in that tractor are used parts by now ain't it? :lol:

BTW, an over/under ain't that hard to rebuild, i did one about 14 years ago, i found a parts O/U for $100 and between the 2 i had enough good parts to rebuild one.I don't think i spend over $300 for seals and some bearings.
It hasn't missed a beat yet.
 
Yeah but that's a CASE. I said International Harbinger. Either way though, they are all expensive. I had the clutch replaced on a little Dorf utility that I use around the place and is too indispensable to have me muddling around with it all summer...$3000+ for that one. Real geezer squad up at Miller & Sons. You could not get those guys to move and they charge by the hour. I was about ready to blow an artery before I got them to give it up. Kept wanting to check all kinds of different things.."while they were in there". I told them the d**n tractor weren't worth much more than that. As it is, I don't worry about paying for service at my CIH dealer. Onlyl two times I scheduled service they never showed up and I ended up just fixing it myself.
 
You just have to tell them what I told Bruce right before I walked out the door when I dropped off that Over/Under. I said "Just don't exceed the value of the tractor".
 
There was one part in there that was scored quite bad. The price new was $1500. They had one out in a shed,that they were parting out,and that part was good in that one. They sold it to me for $200. More than made up for the $550 labor right there. Plus the peace of mind knowing somebody who knew how to do it right,did it.
 
The way youall are talking reminds me of the problems I had with my 1950 - teeth off of two bull gears and broken axle. Thank goodness the axle didn't cause the tire to shove the fuel tank into the cab. That tractor was the biggest piece of crap that I ever owned but I would like to have it back. It would have lasted for tractor shows.
 
I don't know how I'd ever get along without this one. Handier than pockets. I use this old bugger constantly. It's always been housed and a nice looking original with newer tires to boot.

I just put my own mind at easy anyway. I was half afraid that something might have happened to that pump drive gear and bound up causing it to stop and strip off all at once. I put the shaft back in and pushed it in far enough to get ahold of some spline then started it up. No noise and the steering and hydraulics work. Guess I'd better make a phone call in the morning and get the parts coming.
 
I came up with $647.36 for those two parts new Larry. Can you do better than that? Mine has the longer and more expensive 67.625 inch shaft and they're better than $100 more. If you can beat it,I'll give you a call. You can shoot me an email if you want to. It's a diesel by the way. They use a different hub than the gas don't they?

Part numbers are 165988A on the hub and 103897A on the shaft.
 

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