So explain to me again

Why would someone need a car with 580 hp and a top speed of 181 mph when the highest speed limit in the U.S. is 85 mph.

I could start to understand big HP if it had some form of trailer hitch.
Guess I am just getting to old.

(quoted from post at 16:01:45 09/19/14)


Why would someone need a car with 580 hp and a top speed of 181 mph when the highest speed limit in the U.S. is 85 mph.

I could start to understand big HP if it had some form of trailer hitch.
Guess I am just getting to old.

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Cause you can!

Rick

I got a hunch the only way it'll do 181 is if it has the chip in it that only lets it go that fast if it's owned by the police or the military. The computer is chipped different for civilian use.

2014 Camaro ZL1 top speed 184mph. 2014 Mustang GT 500 660 hp top speed 200mph. Your right if you have the money yes you can. And if you really have a lot of money ( around 2.5 million ) you don't need you can always go for a Bugatti Veyron and increase that by another 50 or 60 mph Don't think your going to see one of those in my garage anytime soon I would like to have a new Mustang though

It could be the same reason people need assault rifles to go deer hunting......

or Wal-Mart.......

They want them for the same reason a lot of us built our cars and engines back in the 60/70s. Now they just finance the high horsepower because they usually don't know how or want to change oil

(quoted from post at 16:49:00 09/19/14) It could be the same reason people need assault rifles to go deer hunting......

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Who uses a rifle with a select rate of fire from safe, through single shot to [b:e3d581848d][i:e3d581848d][u:e3d581848d]full auto[/u:e3d581848d][/i:e3d581848d][/b:e3d581848d]? That my friend is what an assault rifle is. The AR15 is anything but an assault rifle. In fact the AR rifle was sold first as the AR10 chambered for 308 in 1956 as a sporting rifle. The AR15, chambered in .223 was sold as a sporting rifle long before the US military ever looked at it much less adopted it in 1963. So the US military has been fighting with a civilian sporting rifle modified for the military sense Viet Nam.

So the question, sense man first started hunting with rocks, is why does anyone need more than a few rocks?


Rick

Why buy that or a mustang when a new dodge challenger hellcat has 707hp?

One of the ladies I work with just ordered one and yes I did say Lady!! She has a November delivery date. I can't wait to get a ride in it

Please don't perpetuate that way of thinking, it's one of the main reasons rights of all gun owners are already in such bad shape.

That said, you can not legally hunt anywhere, at least not that I know of, with an "assault rifle". The use of the term "assault rifle" has been so perverted by the media that it now applies to any rifle with a pistol grip, high capacity magazine, or any of a myriad of other cosmetic features the anti gun crowd may choose to include in their rants.

A true assault rifle is going to have the capability of full automatic, or at least a select fire/ burst capacity. In other words more than one bullet for every trigger pull. What it's not is a rifle that is nothing but a semiautomatic, even though it may have a pistol grip, etc. Otherwise it's is just like millions of others that have nothing but a plain old wood, or composite stock, and have been in gun cabinets for a hundred years.

Think about it, a semi auto AK style rifle is nothing but a .308 cartridge and is good for a lot of different game. Look at the links below. One is for a Saiga brand rifle with a standard type stock you'd find on most hunting guns, the other is another brand with the more common AK style stock. Both are the same caliber, and basically the same gun, just a different appearance.

The last link is to Impact guns. There you can see a standard Winchester .308 "hunting" rifle, as well as an M&P AR style .308 right beside it. Again, same caliber, just a different appearance.

Ultimately just about ever caliber, and style of rifle out there nowdays was derived from a military style rifle. Heck the old M14 is a direct like to the old time mini 14 and Mini 30 from Ruger. Until people started putting hand grip style stocks on them they were nothing more than a standard semi auto rifle. Now, according to some, they are all of a sudden "assault rifles" because someone changes the stock, and their appearance.

So, please, don't keep perpetuating the myth that a rifles appearance somehow makes it one of the "evil" "assault rifles". Doing so does nothing but give the anti gun crowd more steam for their campaign....and they really don't care whether your rifle is an "assault" rifle, or your Grandfathers prized deer gun. Ultimately they want to take them all.........Just saying......
Saiga

standard AK

Winchester .308 and AR style .308

Well,I beg to differ with you but there are many non military out there. Many wildcats. Myself, I shoot a Weatherby .240.

Because the top 20% income bracket are now baby boomers and the factories know they can get their money by building these. Same with the big expensive "Harleys" but that's kinda fizzled out now. The rest of us can't afford the car , the insurance , the fuel or the tickets. If you have their means you don't sweat any of it. Bragging rights with their buddies at the marina.

I was in the military and part of a group
that spent a few days 'testing' the AR15, Nov/Dec
1960. Camp Bullis shooting range, San Antonio, TX

Why 580HP? No idea. 707HP sounds much better! LOL Link
I won't buy a first year model of anything, so I guess I won't own one.

My dad is the lead mechanic at the local dealer, Taylor and Sons Chevy. He does all of the PDI's on new cars, and has had to do 5 ZL1's.

He took me for a "test drive" one time. All I recall was:

It red-lined at 7500...

We were do 68 MPH...

We were only about 300 feet from where we pulled on to the road...

And we were still in 1st gear...

I would give everything I have for one, they are freakin A W E S O M E!!!!

Bryce

Blah, blah, blah!!

(quoted from post at 17:08:31 09/19/14) Why buy that or a mustang when a new dodge challenger hellcat has 707hp?

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Because I won't own a FIAT.

Rick

I would not waste my money on those things. I'd buy a Shilo Sharps in 45.70 and a Mann 8X8, they would go great with my John Deere A with a rollamatic front. Just sayin!

I'm not talking about the caliber, I'm talking about the gun itself, the action. At it's most basic, it's the action that makes the gun whatever it is. In other words an assault rifle, regardless of caliber, is mainly due to the fact it has a full automatic action. Yes, it will typically be a bit more ergonomical than a standard rifle due to having a different stock, etc, but the action makes it what it is, nothing else. Taken further, a semi auto rifle, regardless of caliber, is still nothing but a semi auto rifle, regardless of it's appearance.

To take it to a level that even someone completely unknowledgeable on guns can understand, check out the links below. Both links show Mosin Nagant rifles. The first has them in their original wood furniture from way back around 1930. The second shows one in a new stock being made for them by Promag. It gives them a 'more sinister' appearance, as well as a detachable magazine, where the original had only a 5 round, internal mag. Too many who see the second one are going to say it's some sort of assault rifle, or even a 'sniper rifle', simply because of it's appearance. The thing is it's nothing but an early 1900's bolt action rifle, in a more modern looking stock.

That said, I understand what your saying, and your right, there are hundreds of wildcat cartridges out there. Even then most of them are based off of a standard round that someone has 'upgraded'. Think about it though, there are hundreds, or more, calibers across an equally large line of rifle brands and types. It's been that way for a long time, and there are more added every day. Heck I can by a brand new AR style rifle, or carbine, that shoots nothing but .22 LR, or even a 9MM pistol cartridge. Still, there is nothing about either of them that I would even remotely call an assault rifle, yet due to the way they look, the anti's are all over them.

In the end, it's a combination of the rifles action, as well as ergonomics that make it an 'assault rifle', and it has nothing at all to do with either the appearance or the caliber.
Mosin Nagant

Mosin with Archangel stock

(quoted from post at 19:31:28 09/19/14) I would not waste my money on those things. I'd buy a Shilo Sharps in 45.70 and a Mann 8X8, they would go great with my John Deere A with a rollamatic front. Just sayin!

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LOL and that is part of what makes people so fantastic. We each have things we would do or have that makes others shake their heads in wonder.

Me, before I got a modern muscle car would buy a dozer!

Rick

No one needs it but some want it.

Dean

Explain please what an assault rifle is. I have a few rifles an NONE of them have ever assaulted anyone. In fact most fire arm assaults in these United States are done with hand guns. The wild eyed gun haters of America love the term "assault rifle" as it heightens the hype and hysteria designed to take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. Everyone has a vise of some sort, that can be viewed as excess to others. Why deride people that enjoy quick cars or impressive tools. Only the arrogant think their vise is fine and others legal vise as insane.

Need has nothing to do with it.

It's all about "mine" being bigger than "yours"!

That is 52,995 dollars of pure ugly, even the color is nasty.

Some fellers need to compensate for their, uh, shortcomings.

I am so confused and not really good at math sometimes.
I once bought a 85 MonteCarlo for $100 that had a fried 4.3 engine and tranny.
Came w/2:21 open diff rear end.
Had a turbo 350 tranny built for $200 and a 79 Malibu wagon.
Assembled a 350 4 bbl 4 bolt block with free forged pistons and a sealed power cam spec'ed for a 327 cid/350hp (most expensive part) for about $300.
I ran the machine shop so little goodies done include decked block; angle cut heads w/2" intake/1.55 exhaust valves (cut down 2.02/1.600), ported, polished and cc'd; polished rods and balanced to pistons. (a mini blueprint)
Invested $300 in a Holley 670cfm carb that REALLY liked fuel (10MPG) so sold and put a 600cfm (free)(15MPG) in place of.
Headers, dual 2 1/2" exhaust, bla, bla, bla.
Total investment about $2000 over 1 1/2 yrs.
Never calibrated rearend to tranny.
Left the 4.3 emblem on rear deck lid ~grins~



First time out I shifted 1st to 2nd when speedo read 75 (learned hard way was slow by 10), tach read 5000RPM. Speedo stopped at 85.

First ? is what speed was I doing doing when shifted 2nd to 3rd;
second ? is how fast would top of 3rd be (guessing around 150MPH cuz don't remember tire roll-out);
and last ? is "why in the heck would I spend ALMOST $53,000 to go a little faster???"

Even if it is a fiat, its sad a foreign brand can build a muscle
car with more power.

(quoted from post at 20:49:00 09/19/14) It could be the same reason people need assault rifles to go deer hunting......

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That would only be true is the right to own a car like that was recognized as an inalienable right in the Constitution of Bill of Rights, which BTW, say nothing about hunting.

Did you mean "vice "?

(quoted from post at 03:55:16 09/20/14) Even if it is a fiat, its sad a foreign brand can build a muscle
car with more power.

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No, what's sad is that some AMERICAN's will buy them.


Rick

(quoted from post at 21:06:51 09/19/14) Need has nothing to do with it.

It's all about "mine" being bigger than "yours"!

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Yea, I gotta agree but other things fall into that category too.

Diesel pickups without needing one.

Big tires and jacking up a pickup.

My guns bigger.

Tractor pulling :shock: :lol: :twisted: :twisted:

Rick

what really a down on this suicide rocket is with that black out treatment [ I hate black wheels in my day we did anything not to have black wheels] that is aimed as some rich kid, who will have minimal driving skills

It's funny how a simple post about a car turns into a debate about guns

You spose they take that big sticker off when you buy it? Or do you drive around showing everyone how much you spent?

hell we rode in cars with that hp range in the late 1960's and they looked better. Speed shop in Marshalltown knew how to build them so they almost looked stock. Cost was less than $5000.00

It's not a debate about guns, per se. Instead, it's simply those of us that have guns, and enjoy that privilege, explaining to someone that seemed to have drunk a little of the anti-gun crowds juice, that our rights to own the 'toys' of our choice are just as important as someone else's right to own the 'toys' of their choice, like this high HP car.

More so that a car is nothing more than an inanimate object, just like a gun, and it's appearance, HP, etc means no more for the car than a guns appearance or mag capacity means to it. In the end just because a car can run 150, it's the human behind the wheel that makes it do something illegal. By the same token a gun (regardless of how it looks, or what you call it) does nothing on it's own without a human pulling the trigger to make it's actions illegal.

What we are doing, and saying is no different than anyone else on here getting corrected when they say something way off when it comes to a tractor. In the end it all comes down to the simple fact that if someone says something that is wrong, they will continue to harbor the belief that they are right, and continue to do so until they are corrected.

BTW, the 2015 Shelby 500 is expected to be over 800hp by the time its released next year.

RE: assault rifle for deer hunting? Wisconsin used to allow the full auto capable rifles for deer hunting up to about 1990 when nnalert got law changed to 'Not Allowed- with a few exceptions' because of unsportsman like behavior incidents. nnalert gave a summary of a couple examples of shot up deer from full auto, law passed because they had the votes. DNR full reports of incidents finally surfaced couple months later when somebody at Capital Times said they couldn't happen now because of the law banning use by regular hunters--turns out all the nasty incidents were done by the people mentioned in the exception loopholes- police and military. The use of Berreta M12 submachine for rabbit hunting from car- with window closed was police officers. Shot up deer carcass- military. Wisconsin law still has the assault rifle allowed for deer hunting by state agents, police and military for duty or for private off duty with hunting license with duty weapon if normally assigned reserve/on call 24/7 and landowner allows- which means some of the military reservations and a few state lands. Missouri, Florida, Arizona, Arkansas at that time were noted to have some similar loopholes or a 'collector' exception for 'civilians'. Alaska had M16 rifle issued to reserve/guard 'Native' personnel to act as scouts/resistance to Russian invaders- or drunken lost Russian navy patrol/fishing boats sailors- and they had specific permission to use them for normal hunting purpose- were supposed to use them any time they were due to get training that month in couple days or after- so for about one week a month they were supposed to leave the 30-30 home and carry the M16 for meat hunting. One guy (Missouri?) featured used a M2 Carbine with a silencer for general hunting- single shots mostly on small game but full auto select on deer or bear- 3 to 5 round burst. 1000 pounds of energy at 100 yards from Carbine round, 3000 pounds from a Weatherby mag-- 3 round burst means at moderate range the M2 became a 300 Weatherby- and a 300 pound angry black bear busting into cabin door need 10 pound of muzzle energy per pound body weight to stop him at minimum- or at least that is minimum for feeling capable of stopping furry claws and teeth equipped hungry grouch. (this would include some Pot and Methhead Humans). Most assault rifles by definition and usage are 'medium' power cartridges- the M16 5.56 is a little short of 1000 pound energy at 100 meters in the old 52 grain bullets, 55 grains not much better and the 62 grains barely push it over. The survival course hunting protocol with hard ball is short burst for deer, longer burst for elk to be sure of getting meat- 10 Mountain, Rangers, Special Forces training courses all used same survival hunting book. New M4 has 3 shot burst trigger setting- the result is energy level of resulting projectiles combined to be about what old 30-06 173 grain ball got 300 meters give or take. Single shot on smaller game with 5.56 gives supper dish for 2- the 30-06/7.62x63 gives some bunny scraps to fry and put on top of beans. Logically, the 'assault Rifle' with its capability of light, moderate with 3 shot burst, heavy with long burst energy levels for the required for small, medium, large game makes more sense than the larger cartridge/heavy rifle for general use/survival situation hunting. The personal defense capabilities of both subject to another discussion- the Marine with a ship to transport him may like a M14, the Airborne guy that has to carry his rifle and other equipment after being dropped(kicked out) of plane may want something lighter and smaller- a collapsible stock AKM,M16/M4 perhaps. Teasing Alert! RN

Well I'm pretty sure the challenger and charger are built in
Canada even if owned by fiat, big deal, that's like saying you
don't buy clothes from foreign company's, which is very very
unlikely because there's always gonna be other country's
selling there brands in the USA.

(quoted from post at 13:01:13 09/20/14) It's not a debate about guns, per se. Instead, it's simply those of us that have guns, and enjoy that privilege, explaining to someone that seemed to have drunk a little of the anti-gun crowds juice, that our rights to own the 'toys' of our choice are just as important as someone else's right to own the 'toys' of their choice, like this high HP car.

More so that a car is nothing more than an inanimate object, just like a gun, and it's appearance, HP, etc means no more for the car than a guns appearance or mag capacity means to it. In the end just because a car can run 150, it's the human behind the wheel that makes it do something illegal. By the same token a gun (regardless of how it looks, or what you call it) does nothing on it's own without a human pulling the trigger to make it's actions illegal.

What we are doing, and saying is no different than anyone else on here getting corrected when they say something way off when it comes to a tractor. In the end it all comes down to the simple fact that if someone says something that is wrong, they will continue to harbor the belief that they are right, and continue to do so until they are corrected.

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Agree 100% except our guns rights are not a "privilege". They are rights, or are supposed to be, and can only be infringed upon when you do something stupid like become a Felon or engage in other activity that should cause you to become something other than a citizen in good standing. Someplace along the way we lost the concept of basic rights. For instance, the 1st amendments "free speech" clause is aimed squarely at speech of a political nature, not at skin flicks and flipping people off. The "freedom of religion" clause does not mean freedom FROM religion. It means the gov't can neither force or prevent you from practicing a religion if you so choose. Now we have teachers stopping kids from saying "Bless you" when someone sneezes!

This nation is circling the bowl and headed down the pipe.

My bad. I was just admonishing another for his misstatement in another reply in this thread, then I did almost the same thing myself. I think the difference is that he didn't really understand why what he said wrong, while I know exactly what I said, and why it is wrong. In other words your exactly right in what your saying and I agree completely. Thanks for calling me on it, and I won't make that mistake again.

(quoted from post at 16:49:00 09/19/14) It could be the same reason people need assault rifles to go deer hunting......

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Killed a good number of deer with my AR-15, Coyotes and praire dogs too.

Gene

(quoted from post at 00:19:18 09/23/14) My bad. I was just admonishing another for his misstatement in another reply in this thread, then I did almost the same thing myself. I think the difference is that he didn't really understand why what he said wrong, while I know exactly what I said, and why it is wrong. In other words your exactly right in what your saying and I agree completely. Thanks for calling me on it, and I won't make that mistake again.

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A very eloquent and dignified reply Wayne, well done. Glad you took it in the spirit it was written. I have made similar mistakes in the past and have seen it become ammo for the other side. In my case it was referring to our republic as a democracy. The difference between the 2 are sometimes subtle and yet they matter a great deal. Same with referring to a right as a privilege or a regulation as a law. Sometimes the little differences mean everything.

Just to clarify the M-14 I carried did not weigh 6lb 6oz. I don't know what that Mustang weighs. :wink:

When you deride someone else for exercising their freedoms, you open yourself to derision.

Maybe your thing is old tractors. Maybe it's guns. Maybe its 580HP Corvettes. Who cares?

If the other guy's thing isn't hurting you, just shut up, salute the flag and thank a soldier.

I think the deer in Wisc having pending legislation against hi hp autos. After visiting Wisc and getting tired of counting dead deer by the side of the road.

(quoted from post at 17:08:31 09/19/14) Why buy that or a mustang when a new dodge challenger hellcat has 707hp?

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because it has a "theoretical 707 hp" just like the dodge tomahawk has a "theoretical top speed of 300 mph" dodge cant prove any numbers so they just use theories

Id like to put that 580hp against this 560hp, I doubt you would notice the 20hp difference!

(quoted from post at 09:44:52 09/23/14) When you deride someone else for exercising their freedoms, you open yourself to derision.

Maybe your thing is old tractors. Maybe it's guns. Maybe its 580HP Corvettes. Who cares?

If the other guy's thing isn't hurting you, just shut up, salute the flag and thank a soldier.

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Yes, yes, yes! A thousand times yes to agree with this!