OT House lights flickering

SKYBOW

Member
Daughters house built in late 70's. Lights in garage and several different rooms are dimming. Seems to be a random. No ozone smell or frying sounds anywhere. Dimming comes and goes with no real pattern at all. Could it be corrosion? How do I fix corrosion in the breaker box?

Thanks
 
I called the power company for a check up, and they had to install a new transformer on the pole. I had already checked and I only had 108 volt coming in to the house.
 
Had the same thing in my house of the same vintage. The main ground had loosened. Electrician said because the main feed wires were aluminum, their expansion rates as they warmed and cooled over the years would cause them to loosen.
 
Houses of that era were often wired with aluminum wiring.

You can tell by opening the panel and looking at the wire. If it is aluminum, look closely where the wires attach to the breakers and where the incoming leads attach to the lugs. The problem with aluminum is it won't stay tight under the screws and it will overheat and burn the wire from under the screw. Look for evidence of burned insulation. If it is burned, the wire will need to be cut off and "pigtailed" with a wire nut, anti corrosion compound, and a piece of copper wire. The affected breaker will also need to be replaced. Same thing will need to be done at all the receptacles and switches. Not an easy job, best left to the pros!

If it is copper wire the corrosion can occur where the breakers plug onto the buss bars in the panel. Try to catch the problem when it's happening, feel for hot breakers, try moving the breaker, see if the lights flicker, pull the breakers one at a time and look for signs of overheating where the breaker plugs on the buss bar. If the breaker is burned it will need to be replaced. If there is an empty space in the panel, move the breaker there to get a clean spot on the buss bar. If the buss bars are badly burned the panel will need to be replaced.

Then again the problem could be somewhere else entirely, like the meter base, the transformer, the incoming wiring, or in the house wiring. Just a matter of tracking it down.
 
It wasn't the main ground. The main ground IS NOT a current carrying conductor.
The service neutral had a high resistance connection.
How many times do people here have to be told that ?
 
Definitions

Ground or earth in a mains (AC power) electrical wiring system is a conductor that provides a low-impedance path to the earth to prevent hazardous voltages from appearing on equipment. (The terms "ground" (North American practice) and "earth" (most other English-speaking countries) are used synonymously here.) Under normal conditions, a grounding conductor does not carry current.

Neutral is a circuit conductor that carries current in normal operation, which is connected to ground (or earth).

In a polyphase or three-wire (single-phase) AC system, the neutral conductor is intended to have similar voltages to each of the other circuit conductors. By that definition, a circuit must have at least three wires for one to serve as a neutral.

In the electrical trade, the conductor of a 2-wire circuit connected to the supply neutral point and earth ground is also referred to as the "neutral." [1]

The United States' National Electrical Code and Canadian electrical code only define neutral as the first of those. In North American use, the second definition is used in less formal language but not in official specifications. In the United Kingdom the Institution of Engineering and Technology defines a neutral conductor as one connected to the supply system neutral point, which includes both these uses.

All neutral wires of the same electrical system should have the same electrical potential, because they are all connected through the system ground. Neutral conductors are usually insulated for the same voltage as the line conductors, with interesting exceptions.[2]
Circuitry

Neutral wires are usually connected at a neutral bus within panelboards or switchboards, and are "bonded" to earth ground at either the electrical service entrance, or at transformers within the system. For electrical installations with split-phase (three-wire single-phase service), the neutral point of the system is at the center-tap on the secondary side of the service transformer. For larger electrical installations, such as those with polyphase service, the neutral point is usually at the common connection on the secondary side of delta/wye connected transformers. Other arrangements of polyphase transformers may result in no neutral point, and no neutral conductors.
Earthing systems
Main article: Earthing system

The names for the following methods of earthing are those defined by IEC standards, which are used in Europe and many other regions. For a more detailed explanation, see earthing systems. Different terminology is used in North America, but the basic principles should be the same everywhere.

Different systems are used to minimize the voltage difference between neutral and local earth ground. In some systems, the neutral and earth join together at the service intake (TN-C-S); in others, they run completely separately back to the transformer neutral terminal (TN-S), and in others they are kept completely separate with the house earth having its own rod and the neutral connected to earth within the distribution network (TT). In a few cases, they are combined in house wiring (TN-C), but the dangers of broken neutrals (see below) and the cost of the special cables needed to mitigate this mean that it is rarely done nowadays.
Combining neutral with earth

Stray voltages created in grounding (earthing) conductors by currents flowing in the supply utility neutral conductors can be troublesome. For example, special measures may be required in barns used for milking dairy cattle. Very small voltages, not usually perceptible to humans, may cause low milk yield, or even mastitis (inflammation of the udder).[3] So-called "tingle voltage filters" may be required in the electrical distribution system for a milking parlour.

Connecting the neutral to the equipment case provides some protection against faults, but may produce a dangerous voltage on the case if the neutral connection is broken.

Combined neutral and ground conductors are commonly used in electricity supply companies' wiring and occasionally for fixed wiring in buildings and for some specialist applications where there is little alternative, such as railways and trams. Since normal circuit currents in the neutral conductor can lead to objectionable or dangerous differences between local earth potential and the neutral, and to protect against neutral breakages, special precautions such as frequent rodding down to earth (multiple ground rod connections), use of cables where the combined neutral and earth completely surrounds the phase conductor(s), and thicker than normal equipotential bonding must be considered to ensure the system is safe.
Fixed appliances on three-wire circuits

In North America, the cases of some kitchen stoves (ranges, ovens), cook tops, clothes dryers and other specifically listed appliances were grounded through their neutral wires as a measure to conserve copper from copper cables during World War II. This practice was removed from the NEC in the 1996 edition, but existing installations (called "old work") may still allow the cases of such listed appliances to be connected to the neutral conductor for grounding.

This practice arose from the three-wire system used to supply both 120 volt and 240 volt loads. Because these listed appliances often have components that use either 120, or both 120 and 240 volts, there is often some current on the neutral wire. This differs from the protective grounding wire, which only carries current under fault conditions. Using the neutral conductor for grounding the equipment enclosure was considered safe since the devices were permanently wired to the supply and so the neutral was unlikely to be broken without also breaking both supply conductors. Also, the unbalanced current due to lamps and small motors in the appliances was small compared to the rating of the conductors and therefore unlikely to cause a large voltage drop in the neutral conductor.
Portable appliances

In North American practice, small portable equipment connected by a cord set is permitted under certain conditions to have merely two conductors in the attachment plug. A polarized plug is used to maintain the identity of the neutral conductor into the appliance but it is never used as a chassis/case ground. The small cords to lamps, etc., often have one or more molded ridges or embedded strings to identify the neutral conductor, or may be identified by colour. Portable appliances never use the neutral conductor for case grounding, and often feature "double-insulated" construction.

In places where the design of the plug and socket cannot ensure that a system neutral conductor is connected to particular terminals of the device, portable appliances must be designed on the assumption that either pole of each circuit may reach full voltage with respect to ground. This connection is made using "unpolarized" plugs.
Technical equipment

In North American practice, small or large technical equipment connected by a cord set must have three wires, if supplied exclusively by 240 volts, or must have four wires, if supplied by 120/240 volts.

There are special provisions in the NEC for so-called 60/120 volt technical equipment, mainly professional grade audio and video equipment supplied by so-called "balanced" 120 volt circuits. These cases generally use a grounding conductor which is "isolated" from the neutral conductor specifically for the purposes of noise and "hum" reduction.
Shared neutral

A shared neutral is a connection in which a plurality of circuits use the same neutral connection. This is also known as a common neutral, and the circuits and neutral together are sometimes referred to as an Edison circuit.
Three-phase circuits

In a three-phase circuit, a neutral is shared between all three phases. Commonly the system neutral is connected to the star point on the feeding transformer. This is the reason that the secondary side of most three-phase distribution transformers is wye or star wound. Three-phase transformers and their associated neutrals are usually found in industrial distribution environments.

A system could be made entirely ungrounded. In this case a fault between one phase and ground would not cause any significant current. In fact, this is not a good scheme. Commonly the neutral is grounded (earthed) through a bond between the neutral bar and the earth bar. It is common on larger systems to monitor any current flowing through the neutral-to-earth link and use this as the basis for neutral fault protection.

The connection between neutral and earth allows any phase-to-earth fault to develop enough current flow to "trip" the circuit overcurrent protection device. In some jurisdictions, calculations are required to ensure the fault loop impedance is low enough so that fault current will trip the protection (In Australia, this is referred to in AS3000:2007 Fault loop impedance calculation). This may limit the length of a branch circuit.

In the case of two phases sharing one neutral, the worst-case current draw is one side has zero load and the other has full load, or when both sides have full load. The latter case results in 1 + 1@120deg = 1@60deg, i.e. the magnitude of the current in the neutral equals that of the other two wires.

In a three-phase linear circuit with three identical resistive or reactive loads, the neutral carries no current. The neutral carries current if the loads on each phase are not identical. In some jurisdictions, the neutral is allowed to be reduced in size if no unbalanced current flow is expected. If the neutral is smaller than the phase conductors, it can be overloaded if a large unbalanced load occurs.

The current drawn by non-linear loads, such as fluorescent & HID lighting and electronic equipment containing switching power supplies, often contains harmonics. Triplen harmonic currents (odd multiples of the third harmonic) are additive, resulting in more current in the shared neutral conductor than in any of the phase conductors. In the absolute worst case, the current in the shared neutral conductor can be triple that in each phase conductor. Some jurisdictions prohibit the use of shared neutral conductors when feeding single-phase loads from a three-phase source; others require that the neutral conductor be substantially larger than the phase conductors. It is good practice to use four-pole circuit breakers (as opposed to the standard three-pole) where the fourth pole is the neutral phase, and is hence protected against overcurrent on the neutral conductor.
Split phase
Main article: Split-phase electric power

In split-phase wiring, for example, a duplex receptacle in a kitchen, devices may be connected with a cable that has three conductors, in addition to ground. The three conductors are usually coloured red, black, and white. The white serves as a common neutral, while the red and black each feed, separately, the top and bottom hot sides of the receptacle. Typically such receptacles are supplied from two circuit breakers in which the handles of two poles are tied together for a common trip. If two large appliances are used at once, current passes through both and the neutral only carries the difference in current. The advantage is that only three wires are required to serve these loads, instead of four. If one kitchen appliance overloads the circuit, the other side of the duplex receptacle will be shut off as well. This is called a multiwire branch circuit. Common trip is required when the connected load uses more than one phase simultaneously. The common trip prevents overloading of the shared neutral if one device draws more than rated current.
See also

Appliance classes
Electrical bonding
Electrical wiring
Electrical wiring (UK)
Electrical wiring (United States)
Earthing arrangements
Ground (electricity)

References

"Neutral Conductor" in Article 100 - Definitions, NFPA 70 National Electrical Code, 2011 Edition, International Electrical Code Series. The requirement to ground the neutral point begins at Article 250.4.
For example, in North American practice an overhead service-entrance cable has two insulated conductors which are wrapped around and supported by the bare neutral conductor
Thomas J. Divers, Simon Francis Peek (ed),Rebhun's diseases of dairy cattle, Elsevier Health Sciences, 2008, ISBN 1-4160-3137-5 pp. 389–390

Further reading

Rick Gilmour et al., editor, Canadian Electrical Code Part I, Nineteenth Edition, C22.1-02 Safety Standard for Electrical Installations, Canadian Standards Association, Toronto, Ontario Canada (2002) ISBN 1-55324-690-X
NFPA 70, National Electrical Code 2002, National Fire Protection Association, Inc., Quincy, Massachusetts USA, (2002). no ISBN
IEE Wiring Regulations Regulations for Electrical Installations Fifteenth Edition 1981, The Institution of Electrical Engineers, (1981) Hitchin, Herts. United Kingdom

EDISON CIRCUITS POSE SAFETY HAZARD
The Complete Guide To Home Wiring
Advanced Home Wiring
 
We've had an intermittent flicker on our power for ten years, or more. I chased it back to the meter, and quit worrying about it. I figured something would fail and eventually show itself, but no. My son, the phone tech, contacted one of his power company buddies and he knocked on my door. We spent about four hours polishing connections and checking for gremlins. I don't know what "we" did, but the flicker has gone away. If all power company employees had the attitude of this man, there would be no problems in the power grid. Sadly, the pompous attitudes of most power company employees prevent them from solving any "real" problems.
 
This needs to be corrected, it can lead to a fire if it is caused by a bad connection. More diagnosis is needed to find the cause.
 
I would check all the connections and tighten them. Even the copper ones in my place loosened ! Not that old either.
I would also check the power coming into the house as the power company could be running low voltage.
 
We had the same thing, was a bad ground connection in the distribution box below the meter.
 

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