OT--Bathroom Shower Grap Rails

Jiles

Well-known Member
I need to install a good grab bar in my bath shower. My wife and I both have knee problems and it is getting more difficult to get in and out of shower safely.
Both bathroom showers/tubs have sliding doors and this somewhat eliminates a portable devise.
My first choice would be one or more stainless grab bars that mounts to the shower wall.
Problem is: We have ceramic tile all the way to the ceiling and I know of no way to locate wall studs for mounting.
Is there an electronic devise that would locate studs/nails through the ceramic and sheetrock? Shower/tub is app. 6 foot tall with tile from top of shower to ceiling. Ceiling is sheetrock.
 
(quoted from post at 14:37:37 09/02/14) the electronic stud finders work very well to locate studs.
Yes--I have two that work very well to find studs through sheetrock but will show nothing through ceramic tile.
 
We had the same issue. We don't have ceramic tile, we have the one piece tub to about 6 ft. high. Anyway, I assume you have a hollow wall behind the ceramic/drywall/plaster. I have some Moen grab bars from Home Depot. They had a good system to drill a hole in the tub surround and attach the bar. I suggest you go to a couple of home improvement stores or your plumbing store and see what attachment systems they can offer you. Paul
 
The man that installed mine. Used a real strong magnet. Said you could feel a slight tug when over a nail.Must have worked I never had a problem with them.
 
Locate the studs on the other side of the wall- then measure over to a known point (like the door jamb), and measure back on the bathroom side.
 
(quoted from post at 09:17:40 09/02/14) I need to install a good grab bar in my bath shower. My wife and I both have knee problems and it is getting more difficult to get in and out of shower safely.
Both bathroom showers/tubs have sliding doors and this somewhat eliminates a portable devise.
My first choice would be one or more stainless grab bars that mounts to the shower wall.
Problem is: We have ceramic tile all the way to the ceiling and I know of no way to locate wall studs for mounting.
Is there an electronic devise that would locate studs/nails through the ceramic and sheetrock? Shower/tub is app. 6 foot tall with tile from top of shower to ceiling. Ceiling is sheetrock.

Every bathroom/shower/bath/stairs should be so equipped. Anybody can take a spill.
 
If you have a good stud finder with the deep scan,
it can work. Still tricky - but I've done it.
 
And when you do find the studs - if you do - they wont be in the right location anyway.
I have installed a lot of grab bars and just use toggle bolts. Toggle bolts with cement board or sheet rock, plus tile will hold a heck of a lot of weight - enough that you could stand on the grab bars.
Don't make the job difficult.
 
(quoted from post at 17:01:04 09/02/14) And when you do find the studs - if you do - they wont be in the right location anyway.
I have installed a lot of grab bars and just use toggle bolts. Toggle bolts with cement board or sheet rock, plus tile will hold a heck of a lot of weight - enough that you could stand on the grab bars.
Don't make the job difficult.

Yes, I would like to find at least one stud and will probably have to use toggle nuts for the other end.
With my luck, I think I will just plan on using toggle nuts and HOPE I DON"T HIT A STUD!!
That way I will be sure to find two mounting studs! LOL
 
Ultradog is right, just position the bar where you want/need it. Start with a small drill, if you hit a stud great, if not use toggle bolts. The grab bar is to steady you, not do chin-ups on.
 
If you are worried about the toggle bolts holding you can put epoxy glue behind flanges and then tighten the toggle bolts down.
 
I've installed hundreds of grab bars. I'm a professional with all the
proper licensing and insurance, read that as financially liable if the
grab bar comes off the wall and someone gets hurt.

THE ONLY way I'll install grab bars is to put 2" X 12" backer boards
between the studs. I've seen far too many grab bars fail with plastic
anchors and anew with toggle bolts. Usually due to fact that holes
didn't get sealed and water got in the wall.

Best to put backer boards in before tile goes in. Not always
practical.

The way we usually end up doing it is to remove sheet rock from
the backside to install 2x12's then fix sheet rock. Silicone holes
then use stainless steel screws. This install technique is permanent
and trouble free.
 
So ask the customer to pay $900 to get a couple of grab bars installed?
What if the shower is on an outside wall? Do you remove the siding and sheathing to install the backer boards?
And 2X12? What are you doing with the grab bars, lifting tractor engines?
 
(quoted from post at 14:56:28 09/02/14) So ask the customer to pay $900 to get a couple of grab bars installed?
What if the shower is on an outside wall? Do you remove the siding and sheathing to install the backer boards?
And 2X12? What are you doing with the grab bars, lifting tractor engines?

Where does $900 come from ?
How prey tell can anybody sit there and say that toggle bolts into drywall is enough. Only somebody with no clue or doesn't care.
 
I have grab bars in my shower due to back and knee problems. All I did to make them fit so I could use stud mounts on both ends was to angle it down at one end so my grab bar sits at a 30 or so degree angle which is real good because if sitting in there tub it sits low enough to use to help you up. I also have a shorter one to help to step out of the tub. It was nice that the V.A. gave me the set of bar
 
How many have you done B&D?
Edit:
Or more importantly, how many have you torn out?
Even with a 3 lb hammer they are tough to knock off a tiled wall.
 
I do building for a handycap community and once the solid blocking in the wall was just short to anchor one grab bar and yes I did take off siding and cut a hole in the sheathing to do the job right with no liability issues. Now we overkill on the blocking so it doesn"t happen again. Who knows who will be using that bar next.
 
The idea that toggles behind tiled drywall are adequate for a grab rail is preposterous. Cement backer board, MAYBE, but drywall no way. As soon as you drill through the tile you've opened a path for water to get through. Sure, you can seal it up, but who's to say that drywall will have any strength left ten years later?

We gave up putting towel racks in our rental houses, because the tenants would rip them out of the wall getting off the toilet. If they'll do that to a fixture no reasonable person would put any weight on, imagine what they can do to a grab rail that actually looks substantial?
 
What you [b:110029368e]might get away with[/b:110029368e] won't fly for a contractor or rental owner.

The ADA law specs that grab bars have to withstand a vertical load of 300 Lb. (each)

A contractor who short-changes the specifications leaves himself wide open to an expensive lawsuit that the plaintiff would win hands-down. If someone won't pony up the money to do it right, any sane contractor would refuse to do the work.

Any property owner that sells a house with improperly installed bars is liable for damages if a subsequent buyer is injured because of faulty equipment.

It is your house (for now), so do what you wish.

Myron
 
Well here's a crazy idea: if you run straight hot water and point the shower head at the wall to get it good and hot, then turn water off and scan wall with a non-contact IR thermometer...will the tiles over the void between studs cool faster, while the sections of tile over the studs cool more slowly due the the density of material behind it? Of course this assumes adequate heat penetration through the backer board, which I'm not certain will happen. Now I'm curious, but I don't have a tiled shower to try it on.

Otherwise, I'd go up near the ceiling where there's less chance of water intrusion and drill a hole through the grout line(rather than risk cracking a tile and it's not terribly difficult to repair the hole in the grout line); one end or the other should be framed 16" OC. Assuming 3/8" backer board and 3/8" for the tile and mortar, if you come about 15" out of the corner you should find a stud. Once you find a stud, you can drill left and right of your "hit" in small increments to locate the edges of the stud, therefore being able to more accurately determine the centerline.

I agree the blocking in the wall is the best way to go, but sometimes the best way isn't always feasible. We did some work at a school up in Washtenaw County several years ago; as I recall, they only required 2 x 6 blocking. Dean, is the 2 x 12 code required in your area or your personal/professional preference?
 
Regarding driving the screws into studs, even if you manage to hit the stud with one screw, chances are you won't hit it with the second. And the mounting flanges for grab rails are typically too big for all three or four screws to go into a 2x4 stud. The most likely outcome is to have one screw catch the edge of the stud (where it won't hold) and for the others to miss it entirely.
 
The length of the grab bars almost always isn't compatible with the stud spacing anyway. 30" or 36" bars insure that at least one end will miss the framing.

The only real way to secure them is with blocking that is securely attached to the studs.

Myron
 
I really appreciate all the replies.
Being a retired Tool&Die maker, I tend to over do or over engineer even simple jobs.
With that being said, from some of the responses, I have a plan.
I am lucky that with one shower, there is a bedroom closet behind it. This closet is finished with 1/2" Cedar OSB. I plan to locate shower bar in desired position and drill into shower/tub. Hopefully I can drill holes through into closet and I feel that large flat washers would be sufficient.
With the other two showers, finished walls make this mounting procedure a little more challenging.
 
(quoted from post at 15:49:19 09/02/14) How many have you done B&D?
Edit:
Or more importantly, how many have you torn out?
Even with a 3 lb hammer they are tough to knock off a tiled wall.

Two grab bars. plus two towel bars and a toilet paper holder that some fools tore off the walls using them as grab bars while drunk or stoned.
They were either cut to length to fit on the studs. Or a board was placed across the studs and drywall in the closet behind the bathroom.
Cost less than $900 for all of them combined.
 

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