Antique tractor warranty

Here's one for the books that I'll bet none of you have ever experienced. About a year ago I sold a MF 135 diesel tractor to a man in another city. He test drove it for 30 minutes prior to buying it for $3400. Neither of us could see anything wrong with it. The next day, after he used it for several hours in a 200 acre hayfield, he called me to report that it was leaking a little oil from the valve cover gasket and a rear wheel seal. I offered to replace the seals if he would buy them even though the Bill of Sale stresses that there is no warranty of any kind, period. He refused my offer, and demanded his money back. 3 months later his lawyer writes me, stating that the tractor now has several more leaks. About 10 days ago the trial took place. Judge Chutz ruled in favor of the buyer, stating that old tractors come with a 3-5 day warranty, regardless of what the Bill of Sale says, against any defects whatever. He even awarded the buyer $1000 in attorneys fees. I have asked about 25 lawyers, the Louisiana State Police, two local antique tractor clubs, every equipment dealer in the area, and researched state and federal law. None of these sources turned up even a 3-5 MINUTE warranty on an antique tractor, much less a 3-5 day one. It is apparent that Judge Chutz punished me for not hiring a lawyer. I filed a Motion For A New Trial. Judge Chutz is a candidate for the Court of Appeals in the upcoming election. The State Police told me that there is no need for a Bill of Sale on a used tractor because they are sold strictly on an "as is" basis. This is the first time this has happened to me in 25 years of fooling with these old tractors. I am quite outdone about it.
 
I believe Abraham Lincoln had it correct. “He who represents himself has a fool for a client"

You had/have the exposure of $3400, plus legal cost, and chose to rely on the advise of lawyers that appear to not be hired by you, State Police, and several others. If you had HIRED an attorney EARLIER you might not have ever been in court. It is better to hire an attorney early than late.

This is especially true if you are in Louisiana. That is for several reasons, one of which Louisiana has a national reputation of corruption in just about all forms of its government. Never assume anything is gospel in Louisiana. Another reason is that Louisiana uses Napoleonic Code in its legal system. This is different than the rest of the 49 states. Therefore those of us that live in other states will have opinions that mean little in Louisiana.

So having stated that what I tell you is more than likely meaningless in your sate. LOL I have seen dealerships LOOSE cases like this. They lost even with an AS-IS clause/statement on the bill of sale when they "Offered" to do free/warranty repairs after the sale. You did this when you offered to install the seals for "free" if he bought the parts.

So I would go HIRE a LOCAL attorney. I would get the meanest/crookest one you can afford. LOL Your in a junk yard war so you want the meanest/nastiest junk yard dog to be on your side. LOL

(I know the lawyers that post on here are going to love that)
 
I'm glad I give the departing speech.


All should memorize it. Here is your chance...


"I don't know why you would want that old POS! I told you it was toast, but if you think you can fix it up, you are better than me! (lots of laughs and giggles from me) So, what will yo fix on it first? you know the local dealer has quite a bunch of new tractors in stock? Oh you don't want to spend the money? Well, you should be careful with this one, it is akin to Christine, Stephen King's favorite monster. Just be careful leaving my place and make sure you get a tetanus shot when you get home!"



I have never had a problem when I am this honest. WhenI tell them that the tractor is the best thing since sliced bread and it is so wonderful, their expectations are too high. I eliminate that instantly. I do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the law of the used rusted, 40+ year old farm machinery.

I would appeal, with a good lawyer, and get as much in writing as you can. I did autobody for 15 years professionally. This is the least you can do to protect yourself. That is, lower expectations so low that if they even get it on the trailer, they win. case closed.



Good luck! Sorry to hear about it!
 
You made a deliberate gamble by representing yourself in court, knowing full well that the plaintiff had an attorney. That gamble didn't pay off. Now, like all compulsive gamblers, you want to double down. Pay up and accept your lesson; it will be cheaper in the long run.
 
JD's got it right, go look up the meanset junk-yard dawg you can find. See if it's too late.
 
The legal system in the USA is set up by lawyers for lawyers and as you found out failing to hire a lawyer will result in you being 'punished' by the system.As the saying goes 99% of all lawyers give the rest a bad name.
 
Here in Michigan,the state "Lemon Law" apparently doesn't even apply to new tractors. There's a guy here who is constantly running to a lawyer and threatening to sue somebody. He bought a new gray market tractor from a dealer who's in and out of things quicker than most people change their underwear. I guess the tractor was a disaster. He told me that he went to his lawyer and tried to sue under the lemon law. The lawyer told him it only applied to motor vehicles,(cars and trucks)not tractors.
 
I am not sure the folks below who posted about the negative aspects of representing yourself are being very realistic. One in particular was excessively judgmental. I don't recall you saying you had a gambling problem!

My wife has worked in the court system her entire career. We have even had the misfortune of being parties in lawsuits a couple times. What happens when you get TWO lawyers involved is that they get together on the phone to "work out a settlement" at $300 an hour. Complaints and answers are filed in compliance with court rules. Generally the jerk who was foolish enough to start the whole thing will not settle. So the attorneys schedule depositions. Entire days, half days...but usually there are schedule conflicts so it has to go on over a couple days. Now there is a court reporter to pay and depositions to order...all at a fee. Then they review the depositions and prepare for trial...still $300 an hour for the attorney and $125 for the paralegal...and sometimes they work together at the same time. Then you go to court...

The thing you did wrong, in my opinion, was not to realize that it would have been easier to take the tractor back and sell it to someone else. The rest was easily avoided. You did learn a lesson, but if it was about hiring an attorney to represent you over the cost of a used tractor...you learned the wrong lesson.
 
Any chance the guy you sold the tractor to and the judge were related? Just another one of those "judgments" that go directly in the face of all logic.
 
Had a similar thing happen with a 4430. Long story short it ended up costing Me $1500 to defend myself.
Ron
 
And still people rant and rave if you take one to the crusher. If this stands and word gets out,NOBODY with a lick of common sense will sell one unless it's gonna be melted down.
 
Here in Mississippi they are now burying all lawyers 12 feet deep because deep down they are good people. I HATE trial lawyers. They claim they are for their clients--never mention the 30, 40 or 50% of settlements they keep for themselves.
 
That is the one thing I could never figure out. If a judge makes an example of someone, then how can they say the person got a fair trial? You offered to repair the seals, which should have been enough right there, but it almost sounds like the guy didn't like the tractor after all and changed his mind, then wanted his money back.
 
I've hired several lawyers and as far as I'm concerned their profession is as deplorable and it gets. Yes you might have hired a lawyer and you may have won your case but you might have been out $5-6000 or more in lawyer fees too. You lose either way. These POS guys that think suing is the answer to everything know this.
 
The unfortunate problem with our legal system is that it costs you a bunch of money to defend yourself, even if there is no question that you are in the right. My neighbor recently sued me for $40 (long story). He was wrong, and most people would have just paid the idiot, but I figured if he gets away with it this time, it will never end. I hired a lawyer, fought him in court (he represented himself) and the case was dismissed with prejudice, meaning he, or any other neighbor, can never try this again. Problem was, it cost me a total of $1375 to defend a bogus $40 deal, and it's not legal to go after him for my expenses. Logic would say when you lose, you pay all expenses, but that's not the way it works.
 
Astonishing, but LA is a civil law state.

Who knows what the Napoleonic code said.

I do not know if LA has adopted the UCC, which would be controlling if (as is likely) it has.

FWIW, legally, there is no such thing as a 3-5 day warranty, though, theoretically, there could be a 3 day warranty or a 5 day warranty.

Dean
 
The first tractor I ever bought was a used 400 Farmall. When I got ready to drive it away, the old farmer that owned it told me, "Son, it has been a good tractor for me and as far as I know there is nothing wrong with it. However, you may not make it out of the driveway before it falls apart but it's yours now." He was right. It ran hot on me about two miles down the road, but I pulled it on home and never mentioned it to him. I have since told anyone who bought a tractor from me the same words the old farmer told me years ago.
Does sound like you got a really raw deal.
 
Dean the term " Napoleonic Code" means that the laws in Louisiana are derived from the French system that Napoleon codified not English common law like the other 49 states. It is still a civil law state but there is differences in how the court system works. Prior court rulings mean less under the Napoleonic Code. The judge actually is supposed to look at "intent" not other court cases.

Look at any disclaimer that list what states it is in force in and 99% of them will spell out that it is different in Louisiana.

Not trying to start any arguments just let others know that the court system in Louisiana works differently than the rest of the US state courts.

Long and short of his problem is that a customer sued him and he lost the first round. HE may or may not get that decision changed.

I have sold a lot of equipment over the years. I always try to settle the customer's issues peaceably but if that does not work then I have always got legal help. We expect a person to go to a mechanic if they do not know the exact workings of a vehicle or equipment. So if your going to be involved in a legal issue you need a legal expert. I don't like that but it is just the way the system works. So you can try to buck the system. You will usually not get good results.

Think about the "judgment" in this case. The judge is supposed to try to look at intent under the Napoleonic code. It would appear HE thinks your "intent" was different than you think it was. So you need to get legal help to help you convince the judge that your "intent" was not actionable.
 
As many have said, if you do any business with the public be prepare for a lawsuit. In most states that "as is" statement on the bill of sale means that it was sold as it is without any warranty of any kind. However the item must be ready to use with only a reasonable amount of repairs.
The best way to avoid being sued is to state any known defects on the bill of sale and have the buyer sign the bill of sale with the statement that they accept the item as is.
 
"[M]eaning he, or any other neighbor...."

No, only the particular plaintiff.

"With prejudice" has no effect upon other parties.

Dean
 
I appreciate the feedback and opinions from all of you . Just to recap: The Judge and the lawyer were not related, and as far as I know had never met=two different districts. I thought about just taking the tractor back but since I had no idea what the buyer did to it while he was using it I decided that repairing it would probably be more expensive than fighting his suit. I thought surely that the Bill of Sale would be sufficient. A Judge cannot legislate from the bench. He can only cite specific statutes and regulations to justify his decision. In this case there are no such statutes and regulations, therefore he has committed judicial misconduct. Louisiana's Lemon Law only applies to new passenger vehicles under warranty that have to be registered. Used tractors aren't even registered. It also requires that 3-4 unsuccessful repair attempts be made by the buyer, and that the defects prevent the item from doing what it was bought to do, neither of which is the case here. I could be wrong of course, but I'm hoping that in his efforts to get elected to the court of appeals, he will see that my broadcasting of his illegal act in this district will likely cost him more than reversing his decision would. Besides that, a lawyer friend of mine told me that the worst thing that could happen if my motion fails is a judgement against me, and since I don't own anything to speak of I can't lose anything. But this is as much a matter of principle as anything else. If Judge Chutz's ruling is allowed to stand, it would put every used equipment dealer out of business, and prevent ANYBODY from being able to sell a piece of used equipment, unless it was strictly going to the scrap yard as one of you said. I'll keep ya'll posted. Thanks again to all of you.
 
A disgusting situation. . .

My neighbor, the used car salesman, used to say, "If this piece of junk falls in half when you pull out of my driveway, both halves belong to YOU!"
 
Dave, not everyone does their gambling at the craps table or slot machine. Some choose to do their gambling down at the court house.

Now you're quite right that once you bring lawyers into the picture, they will quickly run up billable hours. But the plaintiff had already engaged his lawyer, in hindsight it seems foolish not to respond in kind. The original poster took a chance and tried to save himself the expense of an attorney. If that's not gambling I don't know what is.
 
its a gamble for sure. i think the buyer has a bad case of buyers remorse. its a common behavior. one gets the itch to spend money cause it felt good to do so, and next day, changes their mind. has nothing to do with anything wrong with the item purchased.
id research the plaintiffs suit history, and see if there is a pattern in that behavior and point that out in your appeal.
i also belive, that if hes had it for three months, id be certain some sort of neglect damage can be added to your claim. if it sat out in the rain, water damage could be in the fluids, oil leaks damage paint, etc etc. hours accumulated in useage, all depreicate the value n becomes repair for you if your forced to retake the tractor.
may sound feeble, but its no different than someone playing the buyer remorse game.
 
It was put in the documentation, and recorded, that this particular issue could not be brought against me again. My lawyer discussed exactly this circumstance with the judge.
 
Walter, you have accused the judge of judicial misconduct, using both his and your real names in a public forum. Do you really think this is wise? As suggested by others, you might want to seek the advice of an attorney before you dig yourself in deeper. And if you have second thoughts about your posts, I'm sure Chris, the YT administrator, would be happy to remove this thread.
 
You messed up big time when he brought up the first oil leak. You opened up a can of worms when you offered to perform labor free to "warrant" the tractor. Now you have learned your lesson. You should have simply stated that there was no warranty, written or implied and that the tractor was strictly sold on an "as is where is" basis. Next time be specific and DO NOT make ANY offers after the sale is final. Tom
 
Tom, I appreciate your advice, but my offer to replace the leaking seals was never an issue during the trial. It wasn't even mentioned. The Judge was unaware of it. Judge Chutz simply punished me for not hiring a lawyer. That is the consensus of opinion so far. He legislated from the bench by relying on a non-existent law, which of course is illegal. The buyer would have sued me regardless of my offer, and won.
 
I appreciate your advice, but you are incorrect about a critical fact in this matter. I can't tell you what it is, but I have no liability here, so please don't fret on my behalf. But thanks again.
 
This wasn't about any leaks.
He got done with what he was using it for and wanted to return it.
You can often get cheap equipment at TSC after someone does this.
 
No, he likely spent more on his lawyer than he did on the tractor. If it was about money or buyer's remorse he could have just sold the tractor to the next guy. Cut his losses, take his lumps, and move on with life.

This buyer guy is just plain insane. He is operating on some misguided sense of principle because he feels he got screwed on the tractor deal. His only purpose here is to "punish" Walter because the tractor wasn't perfect. Money is irrelevant.

Walter, if you have all these lawyer friends why aren't they helping you? Why aren't you asking them to help you? Maybe they don't practice that type of law, or their case load is such that they don't have time but at least they could give you a referral and maybe call in a favor to get you a reduced hourly rate. Heck maybe through networking you'll find a lawyer with a beef against this judge who will represent you just to put the screws to the judge.
 
I suspect that his lawyer is a family friend, so
he may not be out of pocket by much, if anything.
I honestly don't think he has buyers remorse. I
think he has an entitlement mentality, i.e., he is
entitled to a new $34,000 tractor with a warranty
while spending only one tenth as much in buying a
50 year old tractor with no warranty. I think he
is just dishonest and has an attitude. I believe
this because he claims that these minor oil leaks
render the tractor "inoperable" and "useless". On
the contrary, every 50 year old tractor I ever
saw, including mine, had at least one leak,
usually several, but you could still use them all
day long. He also claimed that a small rag that
was placed under the fuel cap of the diesel tank
by a previous owner to make a tighter seal was a
fire hazard. The reasons I didn't hire a lawyer
were first, I didn't think I needed one. Second, a
lawyer friend of mine who also didn't think I
needed one gave me free counsel on how to prepare
my motions. Third, I have studied law for 30
years. I knew there was no law ANYWHERE that
provided for a warranty of any kind on old, used
equipment. I discovered later that this judge has
a reputation for ignoring the written law to get
his way. We'll see.
 
interesting thread.
Guess I will have to change 'as-is, where-is'
to
'sold as junk/scrap'
on receipts.
Don't like it that way, don't buy it.

If you sell a lot, you learn to tell the difference between normal haggling, and the 'expect something new for used price' people.
When I run into one of them, I just say,
I changed my mind, it's not for sale, good-bye, have a nice day.

BTW, if you have to refund the full purchase price,
don't forget the daily rental fee for 3 months use.
Nothing in this life is free, not even for him.....
 
He's had this tractor for almost a year now. I told
the judge that I would be willing to accept a daily
rental fee of one tenth the fee for a new tractor,
which amounted to about $93,000, and he could keep
the tractor and even get refunded the purchase
price. Didn't work.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top