Wood Stoves

Anonymous-0 · Aug 31, 2014

Hi All-Has anyone heard about any new rules from
EPA on wood stove emissions? I read an ad in
local shopper and they were advising to buy one if
you are in the market because EPA regulations will
force wood stove manufacturers to modify the
stoves to meet pollution standards,and increase
price. I assume old stoves will be "Grandfathered"
in, but not sure.
I looked wood stoves up on the EPA site and they
are indeed lowering the "particulate" emission
allowed per volume of air. This site has many
pages of regulations from what I could see.

If I am wrong in any of these statements please
let me know.
I do not know if there is a comment period about
this subject to the EPA, like there is for air
pollution and the new proposed water rules (these
rules are not good from what I can see) but sounds
like nasty rules are coming April of 2015 unless
they can be stopped.

1948jr · Aug 31, 2014

I heard the same thing. if you are thinking about one ,better get it now.

David G · Aug 31, 2014

Why are the rules bad if they clean up the air and water?

MarkB_MI · Aug 31, 2014

Seems like a bit of fearmongering, which is almost always good for business. After all, the EPA has regulated woodburning stoves for over twenty years, yet plenty of companies still build them.

First off, the rules are PROPOSED, not enacted. So it is possible although unlikely that they won't go through. But even if the rules are enacted, stoves which comply with the current rules can be made and sold for another FIVE years. So don't let your local dealer convince you it's an emergency and if you don't buy now you'll never be able to do so.. That's simply not true.
EPA wood stove new requirements summary

Russ from MN · Aug 31, 2014

You don't like clean air? You know, the cleaner they burn the less wood you have to cut!

Mike (WA) · Aug 31, 2014

Well, they're bad if they impose a standard that is impossible to meet. And thats what I would expect from the present adminstration.

Dan T in MO · Sep 1, 2014

Ever hear of "unintended consequences?" A case in point, low flow toilets. At first glance, it sounds like a good idea to use less water on each flush. But the unintended consequence was that folks often had to use more flushes. In the end, they ended up using more water. Another case in point is compact fluorescent lights. They do use less electricity, but the unintended consequence is more mercury in landfills.

So what could be the unintended consequences of cleaner woodstoves? Black market woodstoves seems far-fetched, but I can see an enterprising hillbilly such as myself cobbling together a home-made wood furnace to bypass EPA regs. Perhaps folks holding onto antiquated stoves longer. Even those lacking safety features that would have come about anyway with a free market.

Traditional Farmer · Sep 1, 2014

If its too crazy to be believed then its probably true of the EPA these days.

Mark - IN. · Sep 1, 2014

Jeo46, you are absolutely correct in your statements. One can easily do a google search and verify what you are saying is correct, information gathered from the EPA website or those of most major news sites. My wood burners are in, and they are staying as are. The day that someone comes past the No Trespassing signs and knocking at my door to inspect, they are going to get a face full of at least two barrels with both rabbit ears cocked back. They should have kissed their families goodbye before they left home because they won't be coming home ever again.

Mark

Wile E · Sep 1, 2014

Cause the amount of money it will cost anyone that wants to buy a wood stove will be more.

Wile E · Sep 1, 2014

I think the main reason behind the EPA particulate reduction is due to the large amount of smoke that is belched out of outside wood boilers and the lower quality wood stoves.

I looked up the cost of a new outside wood furnace, forced air type. $4,000. I would like to make my own outside wood burner, cut the steel, weld it all up, paint, the whole thing. It would be a lot less than $4k.

Bret4207 · Sep 1, 2014

MIke and Dans posts explain the "why it's bad". The problem is the idiots burning trash, tires, diapers, etc in OWB's in villages and towns. So instead of going after them, the ones responsible, they go after everyone. The majority of people think it's a simple thing to make a wood burning unit "more efficient". It's not. The majority also think people burning wood do it by choice and that they could afford to use oil or the mythical natural gas. Most of the people I know burning wood are doing not out of choice but because it's so much cheaper. I don't know a soul outside of a couple of people living in little cities that have natural gas.

The unintended consequences are going to be more people struggling to make it through winter!

JDemaris · Sep 1, 2014

Yes it's happening and this is the 3rd time, NOT the first. The first EPA attack was July 1, 1988. The second was July 1, 1990. At the beginning - if a wood-burning device was called a "wood furnace" instead of a "wood stove" it was pretty much exempted. No more. The new regs going into effect carry over to everything. Every time this happens - the prices take a hike on both ends. For new ones that meet EPA regs - and for old ones that can be grandfathered in.

Russ from MN · Sep 1, 2014

It's not impossible to meet the new standards, we have had a stove that does for years!

Donald Lehman · Sep 1, 2014

$4,000? Nearly everyone I know who put one of the things in is telling me about $14,000 by the time you get them installed. Last time (6 months ago) I priced a 46,000 BTU add-on they were $3600. I assume you don't live in NY?

1948CaseVAI · Sep 1, 2014

Cleaner air is fine if it doesn't raise my costs. It should be a balance, and cleaner air regardless of cost is just stupid. Air has been cleaned a great deal over the last 20 years and for the sake of economics it needs to be left alone now. Perhaps you are pro-government.

Wile E · Sep 1, 2014

Forced air only. (not a wood boiler type)

The install might cost you $1000, I do not know I have not priced out the install. For $14k I think you are talking about the outside wood boiler.

RandyB(MI) · Sep 1, 2014

When the DNR does their thousands of acres of "controlled burns" each year , I guess clean air rules don't count. And the thousands of acres of forest in California that goes up in fire every year don't contribute to smog either. All the wood stoves in the world wouldn't equal just one of those fires. Nothing but politics again.

Bret4207 · Sep 2, 2014

(quoted from post at 16:15:17 09/01/14) Forced air only. (not a wood boiler type)

The install might cost you $1000, I do not know I have not priced out the install. For $14k I think you are talking about the outside wood boiler.

Yeah, I imagine he is and I was too. I never heard of an out door forced air unit. Got a link to what you mean?

bjb in TX from Ne · Sep 2, 2014

My new Kohler toliet is low flow and works better than the 1980's vintage full flow in the other bathroom. It just took Kohler actually looking at the toilet differently instead of just decreasing the flow and hoping it flushes.

Given time the woodstove manufactures will do the same. More efficient burning has the "unintended consequence" of saving on wood each winter (less time cost in chopping wood).

David G · Sep 2, 2014

My Toto low flow works fine.

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