kids and guns

brandon j

Member
Just saw a 9 year old girl killed her instructor with a fully automated hand gun the recoyle caused a uncontrolled lifting and she hit him in the head why would you have a 9 year old girl or boy using a gun like that????
 
I agree with you entirely. You know I am sure you guys over there are sick of Piers Morgan (We are not too keen on him over here actually! )So the last thing you want to hear is a Brit lecturing you about your gun laws, but here in The UK kids are not even allowed to go near an air rifle until they are 14 years old, let alone a 'firearm' in fact you have to be 17 years old to buy the pellets! Getting a shotgun license here is quite difficult, you have to prove why you need it, where you are going to shoot it, get a counter signature from a professional person such as a lawyer etc. to prove you are of good character. Getting a firearms license for even something like a .22 rimfire is even more hard work. I don't think we will ever relax our strict gun laws and I hope we never do.
 
It wasn't a handgun, it was an Uzi at a range. As to why, why do people give their kids ATVs and turn them loose or trampolines or any of a thousand other things that can kill them. I imagine this was a family outing to do something fun, which it is. The problem was the instructor making assumptions about what the kid could handle and obviously not being in the right place to help the kid. Crap happens. The gun is just a tool.
 
So you like being disarmed and at the will of your government? Or what if Germany decides to make another run for your country? I would rethink your passivity. Only an armed person is truly a citizen.
 
something similar happened a few years back.an E.R. doctor had his kid at a shooting event and the kid lost controll of the rented uzi and killed himself, why an Emergency Room Doctor would have his 7 year old trying to handle a full auto uzi is beyond my comprehension. maybe start en out with a red ryder first I guess the instructor wont make that mistake a second time
 
If things worked the way they should, other instructors won't make this mistake the FIRST time from here on out.

However, we're not allowed to make stupid mistakes and be held responsible for them anymore. That's disrespectful. Can't speak ill of the dead, no sir. It's the gun's fault.

Nope, we'll make laws that limit the age a person can be before shooting a weapon. Or, we'll just take the guns away from everyone, right? That'll solve the problem.

So many lessons could be learned from this, but instead we go further down this rabbit hole of this misguided crusade to outlaw being stupid.
 
On the BBC website they call it "a high powered submachine gun". I don't know that I would call a 9mm high powered, not that I would want to be shot by one either.
 
Well I taught my niece how to shoot around that age. I don't think any kid really has any business learning to shoot a fully automatic weapon at that age however. My question is are we certain it was fully automatic. I doubt we'll ever find out the truth the way the media reports it. The sad truth is accidents happen. Most are preventable but they do happen. People drive cars and get killed everyday. Does that mean we should have cars taken away for being to dangerous for our own good and go back to horses? Well I have a family member that was thrown from a horse and landed on a rock and was killed so that's out. What's next, walking? Kid was just run over this week near me walking down the road and killed so that's out to. I got up last week slipped down some stairs and broke a toe. I could have died so should we be forced to install elevators in our homes now. My point is accidents happen and people get killed. That's life and passing a bunch of new laws won't stop it.
 
I am going to chime in on the reply from Brittan. The stupid gun laws WILL kick you in the ars when the third world crap you guys keep letting in go on a religious rampage. Spain, Germany you guys and even the US will find out. Home grown sleeper cells comes to mind.
 
Why are they even allow to sell that kind of gun, it is for killing people not hunting? If some is after you and he gets close enough for you to hit him with a Uzi you are in deep doodoo anyway.
 
Happened here in AZ. Local TV stations have the video, but will only show the video leading up to the actual shooting. It looks like the girl either had her attention diverted or lost control of the gun and was ready to drop the gun and run. The instructor was not paying attention to where the gun was moving; he was too engrossed in telling the girl something instead of watching the gun.

Whenever I went hunting with other people, I was always watching where the guns were pointing. Didn't want anyone to do a Dick Cheney on me.
 
Many people get guns like that because they are cool toys. I guess I'm more worried about one of my nutty neighbors doing something stupid than I am worried about some foreigner. Foreign attacks to the USA are after big targets, not little guys like me.

I get the impression most home defence is to keep out the domestic "government and law enforcement" rather than any foreigner invaders.
 
The 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting and to protect your home you need a gun that's built to kill people.That said its very poor judgement to be letting a 9 year old shoot anything like a UZI training with a single shot .22 would be more sensible.
 
(quoted from post at 07:12:31 08/27/14) I agree with you entirely. You know I am sure you guys over there are sick of Piers Morgan (We are not too keen on him over here actually! )So the last thing you want to hear is a Brit lecturing you about your gun laws, but here in The UK kids are not even allowed to go near an air rifle until they are 14 years old, let alone a 'firearm' in fact you have to be 17 years old to buy the pellets! Getting a shotgun license here is quite difficult, you have to prove why you need it, where you are going to shoot it, get a counter signature from a professional person such as a lawyer etc. to prove you are of good character. Getting a firearms license for even something like a .22 rimfire is even more hard work. I don't think we will ever relax our strict gun laws and I hope we never do.

Have you looked at the statistics on British violent crime of ALL types ? It's not safe to be in the British Islands. .
 
(quoted from post at 06:59:47 08/27/14) Many people get guns like that because they are cool toys. I guess I'm more worried about one of my nutty neighbors doing something stupid than I am worried about some foreigner. Foreign attacks to the USA are after big targets, not little guys like me.

I get the impression most home defence is to keep out the domestic "government and law enforcement" rather than any foreigner invaders.


Actually most home defense is just that, defending yourself and loved ones. As the saying goes, when seconds count the police are minutes away". Where I'm at normal can start a 15 minutes for the cops. The ambulance and FD, both volunteer are faster than the cops. You seldom if ever hear of someone here in the US defending their home from government agencies unless it's against cops/agents raiding a drug operation.

Now you do have a lot of wind bags who keep talking about "come the day" how they are going to defend themselves with .22s against cops in body armor or use their AR15 against a Bradly fighting vehicle full of fully armed infantry.

Rick
 
You just posted this same basic thread yesterday. Given your wording it begs the question, did you "just see it" today, or was it yesterday. In either case it appears that all your intentionally trying to do is to create drama on here given the way most country folks feel about guns.

That said I don"t think there is a one of us that doesn"t feel sorry for the child involved in the incident, or for the guys family. At the same time I think, based on the replies, that the majority of us also will say that it was the instructors fault, and his own stupidity that got him killed. IF it was a full auto firearm, be it a pistol or a carbine, then he should have had control over it while the girl was shooting rather than letting her do it herself with him basically watching. I know when I taught my daughter to shoot an AK (not full auto mind you), and when I taught her to shoot a pistol in the beginning, my hands were ALWAYS on the gun to insure it stayed pointed in a safe direction no matter what happened.

Ultimately, like another post stated, everyday cars kill people, knives kill people, people kill with their bare hand, you can smother and kill with a pillow, personally I had a relative killed with a ball bat, people die from alcohol use, from tobacco use, and a myriad of other things. In all cases though it is the human factor that is involved that is the cause of the death, not the item used.

With the alcohol, etc it"s a matter of human choice, use, or don"t use, and that is pretty cut and dried. With machines it"s not such an exact science because malfunctions can happen when it comes to any type of machine. Thing is when it comes to firearms IF you follow the rules for safe handling, the likelihood of a true accident is reduced to nearly nothing. I know years ago my dad experienced a malfunction with a double barrel shotgun he was using to dove hunt. When he closed the breach it fired because one of the firing pins had stuck and hit the primer as the gun latched shut. Had he not been following safe handling procedures I would have been shot, but as it was the round went off and hit the dirt between us. Scared the heck out of the both of us, and scared Dad so bad he didn"t pick up that gun to take to the gunsmith for several years. Ultimately though what happened was a true accident and the human factor of paying attention, and following the rules of safe handling prevailed and no one was hurt.

Unfortunately, in this case the instructor got complacent, did something stupid, and he paid the ultimate price. It"s that simple, but I"ll bet before long the anti gun crowd will be all over it trying to get age limits on shooting, etc. To that I say they can kiss my a$$ before they tell me my daughter can"t learn proper firearm handling, and how to protect herself when she is home alone.
 
What happened to the 22 rifle at the range? In my state there uis a mentality that you have to shoot something so loud that it scares every other shooter at the range. I would probably be one of them if I could afford the ammo. Why would you do that ? Because you are an idiot ! He won't do that again. . { and really isnt' the idea to teach markmanship? That ain't happening on full auto anyway. What was the point of this exersice ?
 
This is exactly the response my brain was trying to put together.

I have three kids, two boys and a girl. They are all fluent with firearms. That said, they started shooting a single shot .22. Then graduated to a lever action .22. I wanted them to be familiar with handguns as well. I have a nice single action Ruger single six that is perfect for beginners. I wanted them to learn marksmanship as well as safety. All of them have been through firearms training. As the years have went by their skills have progressed to the point to where they are more responsible with firearms than alot of my adult friends.

What surprises me is how many of their friends that went through gun training with them had no clue what they were looking at or how to handle a firearm. These are kids that come from homes with parents who own firearms, hunt, etc. If these kids first exposure to a gun was at gun training, what is next, here take a shotgun and hit the woods junior. You had your 24 hr training, you are good to go?

To the point, when there is a firearms accident involving kids, it is almost always because of some form of mishandling, not anger or intent to kill. Accidents happen, and are horrible when they do. Handing a 9yr old a fully automatic weapon is one way to increase the odds greatly.

Its like teaching a kid to run farm equipment. You start out easy and as their skills progress so do the tasks you let them handle. I can teach anyone to drive a tractor and go up and down the field baling for me. Its a matter of a couple levers and a quick 5 minute tutorial. Its what happens when something doesnt go right. Do they have the basics of shutting the PTO and the tractor down before they get out? Do they have any clue what they are looking for anyway? That is gonna greatly increase the odds of getting seriously injured or killed.

Its the same with firearms and accidents like this. Someone put the cart way before the horse and ended up paying the ultimate price.

Heck, I have shot alot of guns and am a good sized guy. If you handed me a mini uzi I would want a thorough run through on how to handle it and what to expect. BW
 
I think the US of all countries leads the world in gun deaths each year. We simply have more folks that have them and use them. They are easier to get here.
 
Such a preventable accident. The only country in the world that uses an amendment to a constitution, to justifying the killing of our children..
 
Maybe the amendment in the constitution isn't the problem - maybe its a lack of parents raising their kids properly.
 
I agree on the parenting. Guns aren't the problem in some cases. If a gun is lying on a table, it isn't the problem, its the person behind the gun. More needs to be done on the mentality of people. If you take guns away, they will find another way to harm someone.
 
This was a bad accident. Accidents happen. Wether it be automobile, airplane, guns, heck even tractor related accidents. Accidents are going to continue to happen, no matter what. I'm just tired of hearing about laws needing to be passed to make our country idiot proof. My point is, are we going to outlaw water the next time someone drownds?? Say hey, if we would of took the water away that accident could of been prevented. No, we would we say that was a bad accident, no need to outlaw water and make every single citizen pay the price. Nonetheless, this is a very sad story. Not oppose to the current gun restrictions we currently have. Those did and a few more would of still likely failed to of prevented this accident. Sad deal.
 
How many kids who have had NO firearm training/awareness have died when they messed with a loaded gun left exposed by some adult IDIOT vs. how many deaths (of kids OR instructors) have there been at supervised firearms training????????

NOT to mention how many out-of-control killers have killed people at gun shows!

We will NOT see those statistics posted side-by-side on the mainstream media!
 

During World War II Britain was facing invasion from Germany. An appeal was made to the US for private citizens to contribute personal weapons to Britain, many did. Some were used to arm Men and women who were being sent into occupied France to help the Resistance. After the war the British government dumped the remaining guns into the North Sea instead of even making an effort to return them.

Don't ask for a rerun.

KEH
 
I agree with teaching gun safety I have been teaching my 3 year with a nerf foam dart gun. Would never let a 9 year old near a gun like that.
 
I'm a 4-H shooting sports leader.. I'm sure the next training session, that one will come up. That said, I'm working with a couple of youngsters, 9 and 10 yrs. Single shot Cricket rifles, .22 single shot, and I dispense ammunition one at a time. They are very careful, respect the gun and very safety conscious. Not too bad at scaring those little dots on paper either.
 
It's tragic.

The scenario is so contrary to the way I was raised. Dad put me on an 8n Ford as soon as I could reach the pedals. This was long after I'd been operating a John Deere 110 riding mower. We hunted together as soon as I could keep up. Later I carried a single shot 410, dad carried the shells. We didn't handle his pistols till we where well into our teens.

Putting an Uzi in the hands of a 9 year old is the same as putting that same 9 year old on a 4020 Deere with no prior experience.

Just plain stupid.
 
(quoted from post at 10:37:01 08/27/14) Why are they even allow to sell that kind of gun, it is for killing people not hunting? If some is after you and he gets close enough for you to hit him with a Uzi you are in deep doodoo anyway.


Do some research before opening your trap and making a fool of yourself.
 
(quoted from post at 13:05:16 08/27/14) I think the US of all countries leads the world in gun deaths each year. We simply have more folks that have them and use them. They are easier to get here.

No, the US does not lead the world in guns deaths each year. Not if you actually look at the facts and not just the headlines. The US is one of the only nations that includes self defense, police and suicide shootings in it's stats as "gun murders". Some stats were even including deaths attributed to US military in foreign nations. Every bad guy the cops shoot is lumped in with the gang bangers shooting it out and the innocents that get shot. But if you want to believe the slanted stats then consider the US also, according to the news, leads in most areas as far as death. Car accidents, heart disease, accidents, etc.

You want accurate stats, then figure out the number of criminal gun deaths by legally owned firearms. Use that type of data and the numbers suddenly plummet like a rock.
 
(quoted from post at 13:24:47 08/27/14) Such a preventable accident. The only country in the world that uses an amendment to a constitution, to justifying the killing of our children..

Horse puckey. You are under no obligation or law to own a gun. No one is forcing you to buy or keep one. The difference is this is one of the few countries where the law recognizes your natural rights. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the killing of our kids. That item would come under the heading of ABORTION which kills an untold number of our children every day.

If people like you want to do away with the 2nd Amend, then you might as well do away with all of them because no of them are sacred when you start gutting them and they'd all be gone if you got rid of any of them.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top