OT: Getting reloading bullets

Lou from Wi.

Well-known Member
Son found Hornady bullets, ordered and was shipped,price was right, so was going to order the second batch, they showed it was out of stock. So yesterday we looked on another sports gun site, and found we could order a box from them. Now I'll bet if we looked today, there would be no Hornady 30 cal. RN 220 grain bullets. Anyway now we can load another 100 of them. We don't hoard like others,but like to have a few on hand for recreational use and hunting rounds.It's a shame I am not a fortune teller, as I would have stocked up before it went haywire.I buy a little here and there and leave the rest for others who enjoy the sport also.

There used to be plenty of them from Hornady, but now those are days gone by. It seems to be 22 available,plain lead nose ammo, which would require a vast amount of cleaning after every shot,by the barrel being caked with lead. We take our 22's along in the tractor when out and about.
Miss the good ole days of buying what you want, when you want, for a reasonable price. Times sure have changed, the term good ole days, is true and to the point.

Regards,
LOU
 
Not sure i understand what you mean about " 22 available,plain lead nose ammo, which would require a vast amount of cleaning after every shot,by the barrel being caked with lead." Did you mean your 22's are leading or did you mean 220 cast center fire ammo?
 
JF in CT,
We always use jacketed 22's after having to clean lead deposits out of the grooves and lands after target shooting 20 rounds or better.We don't have to with jacketed 22's. We're talking 22's only.All our other guns we have (not 22's) fire jacketed ammo.All the barrels of the others are like new.That's why we don't use lead 22's.
I don't know about others use of 22 lead bullets,but thats what happens with ours.
LOU
 
I shoot thousands of rounds of 22 rimfire in my rifles and pistols between bore cleanings. I never have any bore fouling. A guy with a cleaning rod that dosen't know what he is doing can do more damage to a barrel in 1 session than a lifetime af shooting. I always buy rifle bullets in lots of 500 or 1000. Not trying to hog up the supply but I want the same manufacturing lot number. There tends to be differences from lot to lot, and they can shoot to a different point of impact, ect.
 
I was taught years ago that when useing lead bullets for target shooting that you through in a steel jacketed bullet about every third or fourth cylinder to clean out the lands of lead foulings.
 

What "jacketed" 22's? Outside of a couple 22 mag loads I'm not aware of any "jacketed" 22RF ammo. There are some plated or otherwise lubricated offerings out there, but nothing jacketed.

D Beatty, all you're doing is ironing the fouling into the grooves. The way to do it is not to have leading in the first place by using properly sized cast or swaged bullets loaded at sane levels.

If your 22's are fouling the bore so bad that accuracy degrades, there's something going on besides lack of "jackets". I have a Winchester 52 that has not had the barrel cleaned in several thousand rounds that will still put them in one ragged hole day after day using standard lead 22 target ammo.
 
Then what are the .22 bullets with copper coated called if not a jacketed bullets( I have several boxes of old .22s that say copper jacked on box)? The Winchester 52 is a great rifle. My uncle had one and when he passed away nobody knew where it was . I ended up buying a Kimber Model 82 and a Ruger 77/22 which are great shooting rifles.
 
(quoted from post at 17:43:52 07/28/14) Then what are the .22 bullets with copper coated called if not a jacketed bullets( I have several boxes of old .22s that say copper jacked on box)? The Winchester 52 is a great rifle. My uncle had one and when he passed away nobody knew where it was . I ended up buying a Kimber Model 82 and a Ruger 77/22 which are great shooting rifles.

Look at the description on any modern 22lr copper colored offering and it will say "plated". A jacket is several thousandths of an inch thick depending on the design, even in 22CF, that is a separate piece of metal from the lead alloy part of the bullet. The 2 pierces are swaged together and form a jacketed bullet. The "plating" is tens of thousanths of an inch thick. It's cosmetic as much anything else. I love Remington Golden Bullets but they aren't jacketed at all. If your boxes say jacketed it may be advertising or they may be some of the jacketed 22 rounds produced during WW2. Either way, if you have actual jacketed 22 rounds they may well be worth several dollars a round and the boxes, if in good shape, many more dollars to collectors. I'd be very interested in seeing a pic or a description of the brand, type, etc of what you have there.

I just did a google search and the only domestically available 22rf ammo I can find that advertises itself as jacketed is an Aguila offering. I can find none available anywhere. There is also one seller advertising "jacketed" Federal 22 ammo that is clearly copper plated and not jacketed.

There are also those who take fired 22RF casings and make them into jackets for 22CF which they then use to swage home made bullets.
 
D Beatty,
link below if also for 22 JHP (jacketed Hollow Points) its just some get their knickers in a wad and have to prove how little they know, or want to try and tell you terminoligy that the company uses is wrong. Pay no attention to the know it alls, it makes life easier than proving they're wrong.
LOU
poke here.
 
(quoted from post at 19:01:17 07/28/14) D Beatty,
link below if also for 22 JHP (jacketed Hollow Points) its just some get their knickers in a wad and have to prove how little they know, or want to try and tell you terminoligy that the company uses is wrong. Pay no attention to the know it alls, it makes life easier than proving they're wrong.
LOU
poke here.
:roll:
Well said!
 
(quoted from post at 11:43:59 07/27/14) SNIP
It seems to be 22 available,plain lead nose ammo, which would require a vast amount of cleaning after every shot,by the barrel being caked with lead.
SNIP

Regards,
LOU

Lou, I wont try to change your mind or tell you what to shoot but I will say that leading up a barrel in a .22 rimfire is a non-issue 99.99% of the time. Of those very, very few that do show signs of leading, most only lead a little bit and never continue leading up. If they are cleaned, they lead a little again and stop, never being a problem, just a rough bore collecting untill its smooth. Once the bore is coated with a little lead, its smooth as butter and stops building up. As I said, .22 rimfires that lead the bores are rare....very, very rare. I cant remember a single one that hasnt been a neglected bore either. Rusty, pitted, "frosted", whatever you call it, its still a neglected bore that causes the leading.

I have several .22s that have never had a brush or a rod in them, its my policy to never, ever put a rod in them since my main goal is accuracy (I like to target shoot) and rods usually end up wrecking that accuracy. I will use a string to oil a bore to protect it but I never clean them. Some rifles dont have hundreds of rounds through them but brick upon brick. Still shoot tiny groups if I do my part.

As for the .22 rimfire being made with a jacketed bullet, the round you linked to is not a jacked bullet, at least not according to Winchester. The jacketed bullet is the .22 mag. The .22 rimfire is a solid tin bullet with no jacket. According to Winchester. Natchez likely made a mistake in the ad. Here is a ammo review of the round that you are talking about with close up pictures, note, no jacket. http://www.varminter.com/particles/winchesterLF22longrifle.html

Again Lou, shoot what you want and do whatever rituals you want with your .22 rimfire. Lord knows I have been called a fruitcake because of they way I do things but it works very, very well for me. Its your gun, your time, and your money. But dont be afraid of your .22 leading the bore, it hardly ever happens. Have fun shooting though, whatever you choose to shoot.
 
Rich_WI,

I am sure there are reasons to not clean 22's,but I prefer to keep the rifle clean, as I can see if there is any corrosion in the barrel, and with lead covering it up, I can't see whats under it. I don't like having any firearm (handgun, rifle, etc) that hasn't been cleaned after shooting. It's just my may. I can inspect it for any damage, clean the action down, look for any unsafe mechanisms. I, like you don't wish to tell others how to treat their firearms nor do I feel the need to try and know it all like some other posters do. I call ammuniton by what the manufacturer does or the big name sellers. Below is another link to "jacketed 22's" although they are used in older firearms, there is such an item, and I would never say there has never been a "jacketed 22" as I am sure others are out there. I thank you for your time in responding.
LOU
poke here
 
Rich,
One more add for winchester, it also states JHP (jacketed hollow points) you may disagree with the sellers statement or advertising, but anytime I see JHP, it always means Jacketed Hollow Point, whether it is a center fire or rimfire,JHP means to me just that. Not being picky, but just pointing it out to you so the myth doesnt continue.Have a nice day.
Regards,
LOU
poke here
 
Lou, I hear ya but keep in mind you dont have to remove any or all of the lead in a .22 barrel to keep it rust free. A dry patch to remove the fouling will do the most to stop rust. If you are still worried, pull a oiled patch through the barrel, problem solved. If you have a coating of lead in your barrel (you wont but lets just say you do), it cant rust under it, rust needs air to form. And if you oiled the barrel like I said above, its no different than if the lead isnt there. The lead doesnt change anything. Clean the action to your hearts content, doing that does not affect the accuracy of the .22. But again, develop your own religion, thats what makes .22s such a difficult sport, that and not being able to reload for them.

Keep in mind the link you just gave me is not for the .22 rimfire that everybody is talking about. .22 WRF is a whole different animal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Winchester_Rimfire You cant use that as your proof that a jacketed .22 is being made because thats different than what everybody is talking about.... just saying....
 
(quoted from post at 22:44:13 07/28/14) Rich,
One more add for winchester, it also states JHP (jacketed hollow points) you may disagree with the sellers statement or advertising, but anytime I see JHP, it always means Jacketed Hollow Point, whether it is a center fire or rimfire,JHP means to me just that. Not being picky, but just pointing it out to you so the myth doesnt continue.Have a nice day.
Regards,
LOU
poke here

Lou, the lead free Varmint round in long rifle is not jacketed, no matter how many sellers screw up and say its a jacketed round. They likely screw up because the mag round is the jacketed round but you sure are not shooting that one in a long rifle gun.

Here, go right to the horses mouth, Winchester. They even have a video you can watch where they clearly state that its the .22 mag thats a jacketed bullet and they clearly state that the .22 long rifle is the tin solid bullet (with a deep hollow point). If anybody knows how the ammo is made, I think Winchester would know, dont you think? Winchester says its a solid tin bullet...

http://www.winchester.com/Products/rimfire-ammunition/Advanced/Varmint-LF/Pages/X22LRHLF.aspx
 
(quoted from post at 22:01:17 07/28/14) D Beatty,
link below if also for 22 JHP (jacketed Hollow Points) its just some get their knickers in a wad and have to prove how little they know, or want to try and tell you terminoligy that the company uses is wrong. Pay no attention to the know it alls, it makes life easier than proving they're wrong.
LOU
poke here.

Resorting to insults again Lou? Yes, you are right, Winchester does call it's 22 lead free ammo "jackted". I don't know why though, and whats more I doubt you have ever so much as seen a box of this stuff much less that it was your ammo of choice. This link provides a blown up Winchester advertising pic that shows the bullet used is not jacketed, but rather that it is a homogenous tin alloy swaged design. IOW-, it's built just like every other 22rf round, with the exception of a few very rare offerings that actually are jacketed. The only difference appears to the alloy used for the bullet with is tin and not lead. Since Winchester is famous for using catchy, dangerous names for it's offerings, (Black Talon, SilverTip, Razor Back, Safari), I would say it's just the advertising dept at work again.

http://www.varminter.com/particles/winchesterLF22longrifle.html

Then just to make it clear for those that don't understand the difference between a standard bullet jacket and a swaged lead alloy or tin alloy design, I'll provide this link.

http://www.midwayusa.com/general.mvc/index/appcharts~bullet-composition

If you look at the photos of the sectioned jacketed bullets you can clearly see what the jacket is- a thin copper alloy capsule the encases the lead alloy section of the bullet. There are also solid, homogenous bullets made if copper alloys like some of the Barnes line. They are swaged or in some case lathe turned, have no separate core and are called "jacketed" too which is a misnomer since they don't have a jacket.

If you want to call plated or copper washed 22rf ammo "jacketed", by all means go right ahead. But it just adds to the confusion that already exists out there. The chances of finding some of the very few actual jacketed 22rf rounds at your local gun shop or Gander Mtn are astronomical.

Now, I just looked at the current Winchester site and they don't even list that lead free round anywhere that I can find. They do list a loading for 22rf that appears to have an actual jacket, but the site also shows other offerings with the same type jacket that I've used and know are not jacketed.

I'm not out to play gotcha Lou an I've got nothing against you other than your insults. But just as we don't call venison pork and we don't call cars trucks and don't call dogs cats, we shouldn't be calling non-jacketed ammo jacketed. There are enough people out there now running around scared to death of anything to do with guns without adding more people running around fearing "Full Metal Jacket 22RF Rounds".
 
(quoted from post at 00:44:13 07/29/14) Rich,
One more add for winchester, it also states JHP (jacketed hollow points) you may disagree with the sellers statement or advertising, but anytime I see JHP, it always means Jacketed Hollow Point, whether it is a center fire or rimfire,JHP means to me just that. Not being picky, but just pointing it out to you so the myth doesnt continue.Have a nice day.
Regards,
LOU
poke here

22 Win Mag and 22WRF are NOT 22LR.
 
(quoted from post at 13:40:29 07/27/14) I shoot thousands of rounds of 22 rimfire in my rifles and pistols between bore cleanings. I never have any bore fouling. A guy with a cleaning rod that dosen't know what he is doing can do more damage to a barrel in 1 session than a lifetime af shooting. I always buy rifle bullets in lots of 500 or 1000. Not trying to hog up the supply but I want the same manufacturing lot number. There tends to be differences from lot to lot, and they can shoot to a different point of impact, ect.

Funny you should mention the differences lot to lot. Prior to tanks being computerized we were trained to fire check rounds with each new lot of cannon ammo. Once they came out with the M60A3 and then the M1/M1A1 we were given correction factors for each lot to enter in the computer then we were supposed to fire check rounds. Sometimes the new data was spot on, other times it was bad data.

Rick
 
"I'm not out to play gotcha Lou an I've got nothing against you other than your insults. But just as we don't call venison pork and we don't call cars trucks and don't call dogs cats, we shouldn't be calling non-jacketed ammo jacketed. There are enough people out there now running around scared to death of anything to do with guns without adding more people running around fearing "Full Metal Jacket 22RF Rounds". "

I have to say that your statement is pure bull excrement.
I never insulted any one here, just stated a fact some posters think they know it all.No names mentioned.

In all actuality, most "plated 22's are washed bullets, meaning they are run thru a solution to coat the lead. If people were to take this statement litterally, the next question is washed in what? Teflon, some other formula to get past bullet proofed barriers. All BS.
Some posters and current "know it alls" wish to get down to calling any ammo, deadly- well duh- any ammuntion available to consumers is deadly.
I grew up in a different time when 22's were called pea shooters, is that a wrong term? NO. It's just a different name for 22's in my era.

I hate to break it to you,but even lead is metal, so in all actuality, even 22 lead ammuntion IS "full metal jacketed" to explain this further for you. It is lead(metal) ---that is jacketed by lubricant. So if you wish to continue this BS,by all means do so till your hearts content.

People are not crying about ammuntion makup-- they are crying about how many rounds there are in a mag, and semi auto vs full auto.Which some couldn't figure out if you gave them a kindergarden type book to explain the difference.

So you figure people don't call cars-- truck-- why do some refer to them as vehicles? Is this wrong? No, just another term for a fuel type mobile mechanical device. You can dress up a term for any noun and it still is how one percieves it.

Just because you wish to contest what the ammo companies wish to call "coated- plated-- jacketed" is BS some use the word loosly for talking about certain types of ammuntion,and the link below is for the terminology " Bullet Jacket" so argue with the dictionary proofreaders instead of making an azz of yourself here.
LOU
poke here
 
Have it your way Lou. You think you were shooting jacketed 22LR, you think there's no difference between washing, plating and jacketing, you think you can belittle people when you don't know what you're talking about. Have it at old timer.

BTW- you've violated the terms of service agreement you signed on to when you joined here. Foul language, disguised or otherwise, is not allowed. And it makes you look ignorant...well, more ignorant. :lol:

Here, let me help you out in your quest to always be right. This is a link to the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute. These are the guys that makes the rules and standards for the ammo companies. http://www.saami.org/Glossary/
 

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