So you think technology is good????

NCWayne

Well-known Member
I was just reading one of the trade magazines I get and saw this article. Seems like CAT has decided that their dealers, among other things, aren"t using enough of the data that the new equipment computers can spit out, and are missing out on making them a lot of money as a result. So, now they have to come up with a program to use the data to increase their sales, or face losing the dealership rights. In other words if you own a new CAT machine, that has all the bells and whistles, and talks to the dealership about what your doing with it, you had better make 100% sure you do EVERYTHING by the book, or your warranty is going to go away pretty quick. Oh, you went over 100 hours on the oil change, well, that"s going to cost you. A plastic bag got sucked in and covered the radiator so it ran hot for 10 seconds, that"s going to cost you.

Yes I am being somewhat extreme and simplistic both with the two examples, but with the current technology telling the dealership everything your doing with your new machine, every second of the day, you know as well as I do that this is all possible, and probable, in the name of larger profits. I mean if you can make an extra 9 billion a year by using the data that was designed to "help" the customer for your own use, then you know corporate is going to do it all day long, if it increases their profits.

Personally, I say give me the older machines, and operators with enough sense to run, and maintain them, and they will be running, and making a profit for the dealerships in parts for years after this new junk has been transformed into more new junk. Of course finding operators like that now days is next to impossible too, so I guess until we get to the Terminator days when the machines all run themselves, and take over putting us all out of our misery, (and "technology" has already put millions of semi-skilled laborers out of a job already) the folks that want to own new equipment will just have to learn to deal with yet another invasion of their privacy, even if it"s only through their tractors computer system....
 
That first paragraph reminds me of being an employee of UPS, boy has that changed, they monitor and manage your every move on a daily basis, do anything astray, it affects your longevity. I know people with 25-30 years and or in that range of service who have seen this evolve, crazy when you think about it.
 
Business have found collecting a nickel from everybody is better than trying to talk just a few to come in and spend $200. So the heat is on to add fees and fees and self renewing license deals and so on to -everything-. Add a $1.20 fee to every single sale you make and you are getting free money.

Businesses have found that data equals knowledge, and the more data they can collect and sift through the more they can add fees, the more they can use that knowledge to increase income.

So, we are blessed with more and more technology that does little for us consumers, but helps the main company a whole lot. And we consumers get to pay for the technology to boot.

Seed companies are falling over each other to buy high tech drone, weather, fertility, and precision planting companies so as they can access and control the data of the customers.

Along the way we get some benefits in nickels and dimes to us, but the dollar bills are going to the company that controls and owns the data.....

It is not any one company, it is just the new way of doing business.

Nickel and dime -everyone- and extract as much information as possible.

Phone and tablet apps, cars, farm machinery, construction equipment - phone the data home and give ownership to the big company, not the owner, and add a fee to every little thing.....

99 cents is the new big business dream.

Paul
 
Not just a few equipment manufacturers....
How about all of these cards that every store wants you to carry to get the best prices and deals??? In reality, they are tracking everything that you buy in their store so that they can target you for specific sales pitches, advertisements, emails, text messages, etc. Then they sell that information to others to target you for even more sales pitches.
Now, you can stick a credit card in a parking meter in many places to pay for your parking. How about EZPass? Now "big brother" know where you travel to, how fast you drove there, and how long you stayed. And, lest we forget, most cell phones are GPS capable. Your location can be pinpointed most of the time. And how about OnStar and its competitors? They can turn off your car, unlock it, and invade your privacy in a thousand ways with those items.
Anymore, there are very few places that you are not being watched by at least one camera.

Of course, some technology is GOOD. I would not trade my electronic fuel injection for a carburetor!! But like anything else, if technology is abused, it does more harm than good.
 
Amen....I've been shopping for a new laptop...they all come with a different virus protection system already loaded....these gather all info there is about you and feed it back to anybody that wants to pay for it in order to sell you more stuff.

There is no such thing as privacy anymore.
 
I have had a few cars with carbs. The ones that were older before all the EPA add on were a lot less trouble then the ones from the late 70's and eighty's.

You can get a carb kit and a fuel pump VERY cheap compared to fuel injection pumps and sensors.
 
I have wondered for years how they are going to get and keep good techs for all this computerized stuff. The really tech savvy smart guys can make ALOT more money working in the tech field instead of "working in a field "
 
We hired a few neighbor kids part time. Quite a few of them went into something computer related. I do not seem them working at the local John Deere.
 
Well, you know cars already do this with the "black box" that is supposed to show 10 seconds of data prior to a crash. I'm sure with a simple software change it will show everything you've done.

Monitoring like this is not new to the airlines. When I flew the aircraft was continuously sending data back to the company and MTX computer onboard recorded EVERYTHING that went on. Mechanics downloaded the data on a schedule and the company crunched the numbers. They would monitor flight trends and then send the info to the training dept. if they saw certain areas they wanted changed. If you made a boo-boo (too fast, too slow, late config, etc) you might hear about it months later personally from the chief pilot or higher up.
 
To me this sounds like a whole lot of otherwise, "personal reponsibility, family values" types saying that it's okay to cheat lie and steal as long as you don't get caught.

Companies lose billions of dollars a year on fraudulent warranty claims. "Oh it was like that when I bought it." "I don't know what happened." "It just fell off."

Now that companies have the technology to go back and say, "You abused the machine. No warranty for you," there are a lot of sour grapes in the crowd.

Remember that sensor that noticed the bag sucked into the radiator is also flashing a big red light on the dashboard for the operator to see, "Hey dumbazz, something's stuck in my radiator. I'm getting hot!" or the hour meter flashing, "Hey dumbazz, I'm at 99 hours. Change my oil NOW!"

You've got to be consciously negligent to ignore problems and just keep working until the machine falls on a pile these days. A maintained machine lasts longer and costs the owner less in parts and service. For what these machines cost nowadays I'd want all the help I can get. I also can't fault the manufacturer for trying to protect their investment too.

If they want to collect data on me and "target" advertising to me, so what? Means having to watch fewer commercials about stuff that I don't care about, and it still doesn't mean I have to buy anything. I can't fault a business for trying to exist.
 
CAT has a reputation for shooting themselves in the foot with either their dealers or customers (Or both). In the 60's they decided to build only crawlers with torque converters, which ruled them out for farm use. Years later when they started building rubber track tractors, the farmers wouldn't even talk to them; the farmers felt that CAT abandoned them in the 60's and they didn't want to get fooled again.

CAT people have an arrogance that doesn't allow them to see the customer's or dealer's point of view - but that attitude is good for their competition!
 
Along the lines with what you are saying is more and more of this stuff is being leased now too.
So protecting your investment is extra important.
 
I don't believe that to be true, they built direct drive tractors, and power shift models simultaneously into the 70's and possibly later.
D7G
 
It's very possible that you are on the wrong track here too. It could be they are going to take a look at the data and be able to tell the customer "hey, you are way underusing this machine, why we have the right machine for how you are running right on the lot, smaller, lighter and uses less fuel too". Or "man you really push this thing to the limits, you could go one size up and be more profitable and oh by the way we happen to have one in stock". Or even "hey we don't know who you are paying to run this but the operator is a cowboy costing you money".

I know most of the machinery dealers around here to include Cat take pretty good care of their customers with equipment under warranty. they do because they wan that next sale.

When Cat introduce the rubber track tractors they told their dealers that if they couldn't provide 24/7 in field support they would loose the dealership. That seems to be a pretty strong commitment to the customer. Wife's uncle uses cats for AG. He has a steel tracked one from the 70's that direct drive.

Just why can't you use a torque converter drive one for AG? That torque converter drive works well doing heavy work moving dirt. That's an honest question. I really don't know and have never heard that before.

Rick
 
Right. After CAT realized that they had lost the large ag business, they went back to making direct drive tractors but the farmers in MT, WA, and other areas didn't trust CAT anymore. Large 4WD tractors were just coming into the market, so the farmers went in that direction. The CA farmers forgave CAT and bought ribber track tractors years later when CAT entered that market but farmers in the upper west weren't interested. Farmers have long memories.

Guess that's why there hasn't been a Firestone car tire on our farm since 1950. Hasn't been a Standard Oil truck to the farm since 1954. When we got burned by a company, we remembered it.
 
(quoted from post at 11:07:27 07/28/14) I have had a few cars with carbs. The ones that were older before all the EPA add on were a lot less trouble then the ones from the late 70's and eighty's.

You can get a carb kit and a fuel pump VERY cheap compared to fuel injection pumps and sensors.

I have driven around 1/2 million miles on fuel injected vehicles and have never had to replace an injector.

A carb kit for my old 72 pickup was $65 last month.
 
That I don't dispute one bit, burn a farmer in business, you'll more than likely lose a customer that does not forget.

Shameful, as their direct drive oil clutch design was well proven, they offered both while the the power shift was evolving, all the way through to the 80's and the previous was very reliable for drawbar work.

I've known and worked for contractors that either bought into them, with a good relationship with the dealer network, sure you pay for the name, no different than deere, and those that spent their money with other brands, both being successful.

The mentality you suggest with them, at some point becomes intolerable and customers go in other directions
 
I could not explain the difference, but the oil bath clutch, direct drive was a very well proven and reliable drivetrain for extended drawbar work.

I'm not sure what it is with the power shift, when applied to long/extended drawbar work, may very well have a lot to do with heat. And as many times I've been present and assisted with tear downs and significant repairs on these era tractors when we were not busy, I never really learned the design of those, just helped the guy who did LOL !

I've operated both, as well as dry clutch, their powershift was very reliable, if you read the crawler forum over the years, you'll see similar an typical issues that do come up, that people have posted about, but they sure performed well in earthwork.

That would be an interesting post on that forum, whats the difference between the direct drive and powershift, (pre-high track era) and why was the direct drive best suited for drawbar work.
 
I have never bought a new or used piece of equipment from a dealer and i don't use a credit card often either and there's a sticker on my PO box that says "NO Advertizing flyers".
Everybody leaves me alone cause they can't make a buck off me that i don't want to spend, no matter how often they monitor me online or where ever to what i do or go or been.
It's that simple :wink:
 
(quoted from post at 08:05:41 07/28/14) That first paragraph reminds me of being an employee of UPS, boy has that changed, they monitor and manage your every move on a daily basis, do anything astray, it affects your longevity. I know people with 25-30 years and or in that range of service who have seen this evolve, crazy when you think about it.

Yeh, UPS management is a bunch of 'headhunters' to begin with and they will use every bit of 'technology' that they can to 'get the goods' on the drivers. I spent 25 yrs. working for them ( retired in '04) and it (UPS) has gotten MUCH more like 'big brother' since then. Interestingly enough, the UPS founder, James Casey (may he Rest in Peace), INVITED the union in to represent his workers. Perhaps he remembered and took to heart the famous quote by Lord Acton - 'Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.'

I have no doubt that UPS will always take 'technology' to it's most intrusive level out fear of being 'screwed' by those that do the work and make their money for them. :evil:
 
I take exception to the comment that carburetors are more trouble free than fuel injection. Current automotive fleet at my house is all injected let's look at them one by one- 1986 Ford Mustang 148,00 miles, we had to replace one injector at 136,000 miles ($100), replaced the MAF once (used $75)Dad bought it new, that's the only fuel system work other than filters and a fuel pump. 1991 Honda Accord, 282,000 miles it's had fuel filters and nothing else, the rail has never been off, no position or airflow sensor work ever! 2001 Ford f-150 155,000 miles I rolled a set of injectors into it at 100,000 because something was wrong, Ford said they're all that way nothing we can do about it. I elected to replace the injectors and bought a set of type IV injectors a little smaller than the original, I wanted to replace them because of some suspicious injector noise, I chose a smaller injector trying to push my MPG up. I bought take out injectors, a set of 8 for $100. This cured the injector noise (sounded like a diesel at idle) AND cleared up excessive spark knock, seems it had a weak injector since new and Ford decided to save warranty costs by not fixing it (or the leaky back window), Ford will save a lot more on warranty as I will never buy a new Ford after this one. Oh yes and I change the fuel filter every 30,000 miles. Last 2007 Dodge Caravan 96,000 miles the only fuel system work was Chrysler changed a intake gasket that was leaking at the 5 year inspection for the lifetime power train warranty, tried changing fuel filters but it's part of the pump and decided not to put a new fuel pump on it every 30,000 miles.

Some folks complain about all the technology in new cars, and I agree some of it is excessive but it's given us vehicles that will run 200,000 miles plus with normal maintenance and in some cases significantly more. Yes about 50% of my vehicles (in a non scientific sampling) have had fuel problems. But if you round up to 500 dollars to include incidentals and stuff I've forgotten, subtract a bit because spark plugs go 100,000 miles on newer stuff we're still looking at 576,000 miles of use on 9 injectors, one maf sensor and a gasket, and if Ford owned their mistakes and honored their warranties it's only be 2 injectors. Throw in the 36,000 miles I drove a Bronco II with no fuel issues I'm over 600,000 miles on not very many parts.

For 6 years I ran a motor pool for a county government, all fuel injected vehicles 90%+ of the time you can run a new vehicle 75,000 miles and trade for nothing more than 1 1/2 sets of tires and 1 1/2 brake jobs. The brake jobs statistics are high because I had 6 Malibus everyone of them ate 2 sets of brakes to get to 75,000 miles.

Yes I've had to learn a few things just to be an educated consumer but the fuel and repair savings more than make up for it. When I was in college I saved up and bought a new Renault Lecar (don't ask I know it was a mistake) it got 33 MPG, Our Honda when new did about 33 MPG on the highway, My daughter's Ford Fusion does better than that and it's bigger, has automatic transmission and air conditioning.
 
(quoted from post at 18:06:00 07/29/14) I take exception to the comment that carburetors are more trouble free than fuel injection. Current automotive fleet at my house is all injected let's look at them one by one- 1986 Ford Mustang 148,00 miles, we had to replace one injector at 136,000 miles ($100), replaced the MAF once (used $75)Dad bought it new, that's the only fuel system work other than filters and a fuel pump. 1991 Honda Accord, 282,000 miles it's had fuel filters and nothing else, the rail has never been off, no position or airflow sensor work ever! 2001 Ford f-150 155,000 miles I rolled a set of injectors into it at 100,000 because something was wrong, Ford said they're all that way nothing we can do about it. I elected to replace the injectors and bought a set of type IV injectors a little smaller than the original, I wanted to replace them because of some suspicious injector noise, I chose a smaller injector trying to push my MPG up. I bought take out injectors, a set of 8 for $100. This cured the injector noise (sounded like a diesel at idle) AND cleared up excessive spark knock, seems it had a weak injector since new and Ford decided to save warranty costs by not fixing it (or the leaky back window), Ford will save a lot more on warranty as I will never buy a new Ford after this one. Oh yes and I change the fuel filter every 30,000 miles. Last 2007 Dodge Caravan 96,000 miles the only fuel system work was Chrysler changed a intake gasket that was leaking at the 5 year inspection for the lifetime power train warranty, tried changing fuel filters but it's part of the pump and decided not to put a new fuel pump on it every 30,000 miles.

Some folks complain about all the technology in new cars, and I agree some of it is excessive but it's given us vehicles that will run 200,000 miles plus with normal maintenance and in some cases significantly more. Yes about 50% of my vehicles (in a non scientific sampling) have had fuel problems. But if you round up to 500 dollars to include incidentals and stuff I've forgotten, subtract a bit because spark plugs go 100,000 miles on newer stuff we're still looking at 576,000 miles of use on 9 injectors, one maf sensor and a gasket, and if Ford owned their mistakes and honored their warranties it's only be 2 injectors. Throw in the 36,000 miles I drove a Bronco II with no fuel issues I'm over 600,000 miles on not very many parts.

For 6 years I ran a motor pool for a county government, all fuel injected vehicles 90%+ of the time you can run a new vehicle 75,000 miles and trade for nothing more than 1 1/2 sets of tires and 1 1/2 brake jobs. The brake jobs statistics are high because I had 6 Malibus everyone of them ate 2 sets of brakes to get to 75,000 miles.

Yes I've had to learn a few things just to be an educated consumer but the fuel and repair savings more than make up for it. When I was in college I saved up and bought a new Renault Lecar (don't ask I know it was a mistake) it got 33 MPG, Our Honda when new did about 33 MPG on the highway, My daughter's Ford Fusion does better than that and it's bigger, has automatic transmission and air conditioning.

Gotta agree. We traded our old Suburban in March. We pulled hay wagons and trailers to include livestock trailers, carried seed and feed in it and it was our grocery getter. Had to put a tranny in it at 258,000, also replaced the pitman arm, 1 alt, one starter, right front wheel bearing and the fuel pump once. Can't remember how many sets or brakes and tires. Had 313,000 at trade. Last carb vehicle would go about 60K on a carb rebuild and about 80K on a fuel pump. I have driven 6 vehicles with EFI over 200K each and have only had to replace 2 fuel pumps. Sum total of all fuel system repairs. I can begin to count how many mechanical fuel pumps and carb rebuilds I did through the years but it was a LOT. And better fuel economy to boot!

Rick
 

Recently I was scrolling through the computer on the Mack that I drive occasionally. I found that it had been over-reved by 250 RPMs. It wasn't me but I wonder what the ramifications may be.
 

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