New tractors vs older tractors

I am thinking about upgrading to 1 newer tractor to do the majority of the work around my place vs. keeping 3-4 older ones up and running. I currently make about 60 acres of hay, 2 cuttings per year sometimes 3. I am currently running an IH 756d (currently down with a spun rod bearing) and a 706 gasser mainly as my round baler tractors as well as my tillage machines. I also have a 460d that I use on the haybine and the v rake along with the small square baler. I also have a 400 Farmall gasser and a C. It seems like these tractors are just nickel and dimeing me constantly. a battery each year, oil changes, maybe a tire repair, shifter parts, etc. or something simple that goes to heck in the field just before a rain. These tractors are 50 years old. Always something that goes to heck when I really need the tractor. When I jump on one of these and head to the field I just don't feel confident that I'm not gonna have a breakdown. That feeling kind of takes the fun out of running these old machines. I have done some research and for about $25k I can get a nearly new Farmall 90 that is 2wd and open station, similiar to my current 756. If I can buy this tractor and get say even 40 years out of it, thats pretty cheap per year. I do understand that there will be maintenance costs, but do you think there will be much for repair costs? And if I were to sell even just a few of my current tractors, the initial cost of the new one could be even $15k.

I'm not the type that needs "new" what I really want is reliability so that I can really enjoy my time in the field. Can that be found in todays newer tractors? If I should buy one, it will be a tier 3 model, I want no part of the tier 4 emmisions.

Any thoughts?
 
Anything more than about 5 years old will give you the same problems in my experience. Except for the spun bearing everything you have listed is pretty normal after about 4 or 5 years, an the new ones will have a lot more electronics to make it worse.
 
Sounds like you're pretty handy at repairing your own breakdowns. That's the plus side of the old tractors, they were simple, forgiving, and designed to be field serviceable.

Not so much with the new ones.
 
I would be concerned about parts support for late model tractors if planning to keep one more than 10 years or so.

The older machines were made in high volumes and many are still being used. Newer machines are being made in much lower volumes. I expect that parts support will evaporate much more quickly.

Dean
 
I wouldn't go that new if you want to fix it yourself. Pre computer aged tractors can be repaired by any independent shop with manuals available. The newer ones sometimes require a laptop and software to diagnose problems and also, With Deere anyway, There are no printed service manuals just computer based manuals that they do not share with anyone outside their dealer network. You seem to be a red fan and around here you can pick up 66 or 86 series reasonably priced if you shop around. Good luck whatever you decide to do.
 
I wouldn't buy any new tractor that didn't have a climate controlled cab. Just my opinion.
 
Well, I haven't gone to a dealer to actually look at a tractor yet. Still in the thought process. I would specifically be looking for simple simple simple. I don't want any fancy gadgets. Just a tractor that can make some hay. I guess maybe I just need to go look at one, once I see a bunch of wiring I'll probably get scared straight.

All I really want is some reliability, if I could get that out of my current machines I could be quite happy. But I'm struggling with the reliability thing right now. With the machines being 50 years old, I don't see it getting any better.

Still thinking, all opinions valued. Thanks
 
My 2 cents. Newest tractor is a 3020. Couple yrs ago I went over everything with new this and all the other parts. I spent more than a new 3020 but it has held up since. I just had a problem with starting it, turned out the solenoid ground was no good. Other than that it has been good for the last 3 yrs. Did all the work myself. I agree with the cab tractor comment, my next one will have a cab and air.
 
Either your not a good mechanic or have wore out old tractors yes some older tractors are not worth fixing however I have a M farmall And a 400
and only thing I have done to both in about 7 years is normal fluid changes and each has had a battery replacement have done no big repairs the M I paid 950 for it and the 400 I bought for 1500 figure they are making me money!
 
(quoted from post at 12:25:31 07/25/14) I am thinking about upgrading to 1 newer tractor to do the majority of the work around my place vs. keeping 3-4 older ones up and running. I currently make about 60 acres of hay, 2 cuttings per year sometimes 3. I am currently running an IH 756d (currently down with a spun rod bearing) and a 706 gasser mainly as my round baler tractors as well as my tillage machines. I also have a 460d that I use on the haybine and the v rake along with the small square baler. I also have a 400 Farmall gasser and a C. [b:6b154db9d3] It seems like these tractors are just nickel and dimeing me constantly. a battery each year, oil changes, maybe a tire repair, shifter parts, etc. or something simple that goes to heck in the field just before a rain. [/b:6b154db9d3]These tractors are 50 years old. Always something that goes to heck when I really need the tractor. When I jump on one of these and head to the field I just don't feel confident that I'm not gonna have a breakdown. That feeling kind of takes the fun out of running these old machines. I have done some research and for about $25k I can get a nearly new Farmall 90 that is 2wd and open station, similiar to my current 756. If I can buy this tractor and get say even 40 years out of it, thats pretty cheap per year. I do understand that there will be maintenance costs, but do you think there will be much for repair costs? And if I were to sell even just a few of my current tractors, the initial cost of the new one could be even $15k.

I'm not the type that needs "new" what I really want is reliability so that I can really enjoy my time in the field. Can that be found in todays newer tractors? If I should buy one, it will be a tier 3 model, I want no part of the tier 4 emmisions.

Any thoughts?



You haven't listed anything that isn't pretty likely to happen on a brand new tractor, only it won't be nickle and diming you, it'll be hundreds or thousands. Best advice I've gotten is spend your money on new for balers, mowers, etc. Do the upkeep and maintenance on the older stuff.
 
For $25000 I could go out and buy at least 4 or 5 really good tractors that size and I'd bet the farm they together would way out last the one you're thinking of buying.Go to any dealer and
see what they have torn down its relaively new tractors with not that many hrs so buying new doesn't mean trouble free.
 
Every time I think about updating I look on Tractorhouse. There is a nice John Deere 7130 almost new for $75,000. I looked at it and went back to living in my world.
 

I sometimes think I need to up grade, I bale just a little more than you with a 826 IH. I've got a neighbor that bought a new JD 64?? this spring. He had hay ready to bale and it took a dump and it got wet before he could get it baled. I got mine baled without a rain. They will all break down, the old ones are easier to fix if you can get parts. The new ones are repaired with a laptop.
 
(reply to post at 13:05:14 07/25/14)
To be fair . Some of the repairs on the newish equipment is due to operator neglect and/or abuse. Not the fault of the engineering or manufacturing.
Some farmers don't even turn a wrench. Their equipment is in the shop just for regular scheduled service . That dealer shop time looks bad but isn't.
 
My friend has a Tier 3 6430 DEERE with low hours, and it just runs when it wants to because of some damn electrical glitch in the common-rail fuel system that the dealer (with the help of factory tech support) hasn't figured out yet.

NO thank you.

My old stuff generally runs, except for the occasional Roosa Master governor damper ring that needs to be replaced!
 
Myself I would fix the older equipment rather than buy a newer one, but that is just my opinon. I don't see much of a future for most of the newer tractors. I saw an old B JD at a show running a burr mill. Something over 70 some years old, putting away still doing its job. I don't see that happening with anything now days, just too many parts and electrical components to have problems with. At least with some of the older equipment if something goes wrong you can some times "patch" it up to get your work done and fix later. If something happens with a computer or electrical problem on a newer one, your stuck as well. I run older equipment but it is hard to justify putting a lot of money into something that old, BUT if a person stuck $5000 in an older tractor I bet it would out last what you have planned for it if it is kept up.
 
I just read these replies. This is yesterday's tractors and obviously no one who replied bales much hay other than Allen. I baled 215 bales since 10 am yesterday. Eating dinner then going out to mow. I don't care how wonderful a B john Deere is. I want absolutely no part in running one 12 hours a day. Go buy that tractor, with a cab and you'll bale all that hay in half the time. Funny everyone knows someone whose had a nightmare but anyone who has actually owned and operated a late model tractor has had good service. Yes breakdowns happen but they're often far between and lots of work is done in the intervals. Naysayers have fun on your WD and rotobalers
 
My father may have said it right, "an old tractor will nickle and dime you to death but, a new one will 10 and 20 dollar you to death!"
 
I don't care about a B JD either and don't care to run one all day long lol. My point was older equipment is more forgiving and can be fixed yourself.
 
Your nickle and diming stuff actually sounds pretty cheap (except for the spun bearing on the 706D). A new tractor will have many of the same issues (a tire puncture is a tire puncture, a battery gets old and dies) and they all need their oil changed.

My experience has been that the old tractors are pretty reliable - once you've got a good one. It's the equipment they pull that causes the down time. The tractors are run year round and you usually get a little heads up that something needs work before the push of harvest or getting a crop in. Its the stuff that sits for 8-9 months that kills you when its got to be done now and you just lost another bearing. The baler that worked perfectly all season last year loses time the first round in the hay field, the disk your running a little hard to beat the rain loses an ouside arbor bearing etc....

Especially with you having plenty of back ups - if one tractor were to fail, you pull it with a chain to turnrow and hook up the next one.
 
Most of your maintenance sounds like it's due to time and aging rather than use and wear on each individual tractor. In a year, how many tachometer hours do you put on all five tractors combined?

A second tractor is very handy, especially if you need a front end loader. Would two highly reliable tractors work for you? Which two would you use the most if those two were reliable?

It sounds like you are not a tractor collector. You could sell two or three tractors to finance part of the repairs on the remaining two, or maybe even trade-up one of the remaining two tractors. Your maintenance on the two remaining tractor probably would not change much from what it is on those two now.

If your 756 sold new for around $6,000 in the late 1960's that would be around $50,000 in today's dollars. I'm surprised you can buy a new replacement for the 756 for only $25,000.
 
If you kept one of the 7 series tractors as your backup tractor, sold the rest, and found a clean used 986 or larger tractor with a nice cab, you would spend most of your time in the cab tractor. If your not 100 percent IH, similar size Deere, Case, White, would also work well depending on your local dealers.

The hardest part of good preventative maintenance is to bite the bullet and fix things before they break.
 
For a JD, a 4x50 series would be a good compromise of non electronic but have a lot of conveniences.
 

I know where you're coming from. I still have and enjoy my 'collectors' but bought a new tractor with a backhoe and front loader in '09. Yeah, I've changed the fluids a couple of times and greased the 'H' out of it but it's a turn-key deal: when I need to move some dirt, plow snow or clean a ditch I just get on it and 'turn-the-key' :wink: I still use a couple of my vintage tractors for mowing, marking, etc. but when something isn't quite right or they won't start I feel less 'pushed', knowing that, no matter what, I can use the newer one to get the job done. Mine has very little in the way of electronics or I would not have bought it :)
 
When I was haying I had a 3 point disc mower and 3 point rake/tedder, and except the baler, most of the other stuff I used was also 3 point- and with only one tractor, you spend all your time changing implements. I guess most of the bigger haying stuff is tag-along now, so not such a big deal.

Now that I'm not doing much farming, I did get a new JD compact utility (4010) for the horse chores, and its great- except for the time the fuel shut-off solenoid quit, and after I mis-diagnosed it and threw a couple unnecessary parts at it, then had the dealer come out and fix it, I was 500 bucks into it. When fuel shutoff broke on my old IH 504 diesel, a 6 dollar universal choke cable and 15 minutes time and I was back in business.

Maybe there isn't an easy solution.
 
Hi My advice would be find something used low hours that doesn"t have DEF fluid, for the emissions control. That system control stuff, is just an expensive night mare waiting to happen. 1 spec of contamination in the system, your tractor goes to limp mode, guys in Canada are having problems with it in the cold also. my old boss just spent near a $1000 on a re set service call, as the NH didn"t like co op DEF fluid!.
Regards Robert
 
(quoted from post at 15:15:26 07/25/14) I just read these replies. This is yesterday's tractors and obviously no one who replied bales much hay other than Allen. I baled 215 bales since 10 am yesterday. Eating dinner then going out to mow. I don't care how wonderful a B john Deere is. I want absolutely no part in running one 12 hours a day. Go buy that tractor, with a cab and you'll bale all that hay in half the time. Funny everyone knows someone whose had a nightmare but anyone who has actually owned and operated a late model tractor has had good service. Yes breakdowns happen but they're often far between and lots of work is done in the intervals. Naysayers have fun on your WD and rotobalers

I didn't see anyone recommending a WD or a JD B and a Rotobaler. We're just trying to inject a little common sense about the "nickle and diming" issue.
 

Sure, go newer. Get something five years old but be sure to trade it before it is fifteen years old or it will $100-$1,000 you to death with all the electronics. Or be sure that the mfg will sell you the diagnostic computer to go with it. BTDT.
 
I work on tractors every day that are 35 and 40 years old and can get parts overnight. This tractor has 1800 hours on it . No excuse for not being able to get parts. I have a friend that has 8 New Hollands. Needs 4 every day. 4 running- 2 in the shop and the other 2 are on a trailer going or coming from the dealer. When the warranty runs out he trades.
 
One is an LS. I have been waiting for 34 days for a transmission shifting fork to come from Korea. The other is a TYM. IPTO Clutches out. Waiting for parts.
 
I square bale with a JD 4020, round bale with a IH 766, rake with a IH 674, ted with a JD 2510, mow with a IH 886. I go over them in the winter and I hardly ever have a break down in the field.
 
Well a neighbor bought a new 4WD 100HP New Holland 4 years ago and he says its the worst financial decision he has ever made farming the tractor is at the dealers more than his farm.You bail out of a problem used tractor but not a new very easily. A huge gap between a new tractor and a B JD
 
I'd agree with most of what you say - except I think expecting 40 years out of a new tractor is pretty optimistic.

Old tractors (40's - early 50') stick around because manufacturers didn't really get the "planned obsolescence" idea till later.

And they were so simple, when something DID break, it's usually a pretty simple farmer fix.

A modern tractor kept 15 or 20 years will be an absolute nightmare. A machine that's designed to be traded in in 5/10 years combined with the complexity of the all the modern controls and safety features/ emmissions controls, deteriorating plastic, etc etc - FORGET it.

And when you do have any trouble, it could mean a dealer visit as opposed to a simple swap out in the field. That kind of cost can't be ignored, and you should factor it into your cost estimates.

So - no argument that there's something to be said for new dependable equipment - just realize that same concept will continue to apply in another 5 to 10 years.
 
Just finished baling 4 acres of straw with a 1944 JD B and an IHC #45 baler. Baler mis-tied 2 bales, tractor started on the first pull every time I started it over a three day period. No live PTO, no power steering, no cab. Not much investment, reliability is pretty good. I don't need anything new.
 
I work on all kinds of equipment for a living, and have worked on everything from 60 plus year old equipment, to all but the newest stuff. Given what all I have seen and heard here"s my opinion, and take it for what it"s worth.

If you buy a used tractor, no matter how old, you get just that, a used tractor. One way to look at it is that while your current machines are nickel and diming you to death, it"s much better than one ten and hundred dollaring you to death like a newer, electronic machine will.

That said, I"ve got several customers, in the construction field, that have simply spent the money on doing a complete overhaul on their older machines -vs- buying a new one. Think about how much you could do on your current machine for $15,000. I mean it might sound like a lot, but go through and change all the hydraulic lines, rebuild the cyliners, and do anything else that even looks like it might become a problem in the near future or has proven to be an ongoing problem in the past. In the end you have a machine you know, and know you can rely on, NOT another used machine that might cost you $15000 up front, and another $15000 six months down the road.

As a ror instance on my side of things, you can go out and buy a brand new D9 for somewhere around a million dollars. Or you can get a "newer", used D9, say 2012 with all the bells and whistles that, by the book, is already houred out, and still give between half and three quarters of a million for it. On the other hand you can take your existing D9G (one that was extremely popular and has everything still available for it either OEM or aftermarket), or buy a used one for around $40,000 or less. Then you can spend about $200,000 to $250,000 on it, and have pretty much a brand new machine. Brand new meaning rebuilt engine, recored radiator, rebuilt TQ, rebuilt transmission, rebuilt steering clutches and brakes, rebuilt final drives, and a new undercarriage, etc, etc. Like I said, it"s basically a new machine for about the same price you could find a newer, used machine, and way less than the cost of a brand new machine. Had a customer do that about 10 years ago, and other than changing wear parts, me going up in a week or two to change a leaking head gasket, he hasn"t had any problems. On the other hand his 10 year old excavator, bought brand new, has had nothing but problems, and has already has the main pump rebuilt, had the computer changed, etc, etc, etc. Thing is none of the repairs were nickel and dime, like the pump which was well over $14,000, including labor, to have his rebuilt.

Spending money on your current machine, -vs- buying new, or newer used, you know exactly what you"ve got. Part of that too, is that now you"ve got a machine that has been around long enough to have a readily available supply of parts, both new and aftermarket. Too, you"ve got a machine without all the electronics that most folks can work on themselves for all but the most major repairs.

In the end, the older machines, in general, were built much heavier than the new stuff. They were built to last, they were built to repair, and keep on using when they got to that point, and they are doing just that. On the other hand, the newer machines are built to run, wear out, and replace.....all in the name of emissions, and cost savings/profits for the mfgs. But that"s just my opinion.....
 
Every time I go to the local dealer to get parts there shop is full of the newer tractors with engines out etc. There is a few older ones in there don't get me wrong bu they're less than half the amount of the newer ones
 
Iwould not agree there we see more and more older 30 and 40 all the way to 55 series deere here being reworked to run big guys lease new
 

I have to ask a question can Y'all guys not write a new tractor off on your income tax... Are had Y'all rather pay income tax... Maybe Y'all don't have to pay income tax I do...
 
I'm not necessarily writing new tractors off you also have to
account there being used more than old tractors to
 
That seems to be what manufacturers want....take it to the dealer. Yes they have always had that as they have the tools and the "smarts" to fix them. A friend of mine wanted to look in a Case IH book at a dealer for a problem I believe he had already taken it in for, one dealer wouldn't let him look in any of the service manuals so he went to another dealer who allowed him to look. Im all for the service part but when you take something in to get fixed and they don't want to (or yes KNOW how to) fix it and just start replacing parts till the problem goes away...that's not fixing.
 
For the 25,000 your gonna spend on a new one, take that money an have someone restore one of your IH's The best of both worlds in my opinion. A new old tractor if you will. If you think about it, it could be even less to have a new tractor. A friend of mine was looking at a new pickup the other day and kinda got sticker shock, I told him for the price of a comparable pickup he could replace everything on his with brand new factory parts and still be money ahead. I would have a hard time spending 45-50 thousand on a pickup, I would have to start gold plating to spend that kind of money on a restore.
 
I have been on a new case ih 90 pretty slick little tractor if I remember right it didn't have a ton of electronics. The transmission had none just a regular stick shift that you don't have to fight in or out of gear. Probably has a computer controlled engine which case first started in 1999/2000 ish I believe. If a guy wanted an open station and 90 horse that would be a nice tractor
 
(quoted from post at 23:22:43 07/25/14)
I have to ask a question can Y'all guys not write a new tractor off on your income tax... Are had Y'all rather pay income tax... Maybe Y'all don't have to pay income tax I do...

You can't write off all of the cost of a tractor. You can write off part of it and then take depreciation for a number of years after that as I understand it. But that works of any tractor and most repairs are deductible to an extent, or so I'm lead to believe. Truth is you are going to pay one way or another.
 


Either one. The newer one can have hidden problems as well as the older ones. The older ones can be reliable, if you go through them, take the batteries out, or hook a maintainer on them when you don't use them. The preference is yours.
 
I am not a CPA but do understand you pay tax on the money you make above the cost of doing businesses... Is fuel, electricity, insurance a cost of doing businesses... If you use a tractor in your businesses why could you not write the payments off...

http://smallbusiness.foxbusiness.co...3/01/how-to-correctly-write-off-depreciation/

I did not dig deeper that's for my CPA to do... There comes a time to enjoy the write off and drive a nice piece of equipment are keep your old and pay the difference in income tax... I am guilty as anyone at keeping my expenses down till I took a few big hits at the end of the year paying income tax because I was to cheap to spend money... I brought a new tractor I save $80 a month in estimated taxes plus the write off at the end of the year. I could do with out it just like I had learned to do with out the income tax I pay.. You can look at it this way you can limit the liability are give it away I am sure its different for everyone but its something to look into...
 
we run about 10 difrent tractors here and repair a lot more for other guys and if I was looking for one first would be an mtz and second massey parts are very reasonable on the mtz and very reliable massey good parts but more expensive an older caseIh in the 60 70 to the 100 you could not give me have had to do to much on them
 
A few years ago some of us young farmers were picking at a older big row cropper in our area he used to run junk.He started buying new tractors and they were all green he was a big red tractor man.His reply was and I cleaned it up I know this is a family channel {you can pay taxes and feed welfare folks or drive new tractors I have fed enough welfare folks so Idrive new tractors
 

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