What happens when BTO can't plant a crop?

LorenMN

Member
Because of the cold, wet Spring and nearly foot of rain we got in June, there's a lot of rented fields in our area that never got planted. Renter that runs part of our farm has 110 acres on our place that they never touched, and many other fields that are the same. Most of the other big operators in the area are in the same boat, probably 1/3 of the crop land in the area wasn't planted this year.

Our renter sprayed the weeds last Monday, since it was looking pretty bad. Now it's all brown and dead weeds, makes me sick to look at it. They told me a few weeks ago that they might plant a cover crop, radishes maybe? What I don't understand is, we had a dry week last week. Most of the rented field looked like it dried down and could be worked if they wanted to. So why weren't they out there to dig it up and plant a crop yet? They ran beans last year, and fertilized as soon as the crop was off last Fall. Seems like they should have been able to still plant beans again on July1, or some other crop like oats maybe? Just looks like a waste to see the field in the condition it's in.

So I'm curious, what kind of payments are they going to get for not planting? Is there insurance to cover that? My assumption would be that there wouldn't be crop insurance if there's no crop planted, but I don't know. Or is there a govt. program or expected disaster aid that they are waiting for?

I get a little annoyed that the renter tells me not to plant tree lines, telling me that our great-grandfathers worked hard to clear the trees and we should leave it open. But I doubt that our great-grandfathers would sit on their butt and watch the weeds grow, when they could be in the field to still plant a crop.
 
Too late to plant and ecpect a profit. I planted some on the 4th but that is for forage. The bto most likely has no use for that so will collect the insurance.
 
Went through this exact scenario in our area last year. I am not a BTO (only 500 acres). I left some unplanted and a bunch of corn was switched to beans.

Feel fortunate that your renter is looking to do some good practices. I have a neighbor who is a BTO. Let the weeds grow and came in August and worked it all up. This spring when the wind blew his mile long field blew up a dust storm that turned the ditches and road black.

Your tenant will get "prevented planting" payment from insurance and it may cover the rent.

I planted beans from June 28 to July 3 last year. Was wondering if I should even be out there. Fall told me I should have listened to my gut and left the beans in the bag.

Oh well live and learn.

jt
 
I would guess you are too far north to plant beans in July. They do not want to "work the field up" because no-till farmers spray, they don't till. Your renter can plant wheat this fall, for harvest next year. And if I wanted to plant a tree line on land that I owned, there is no renter in this world that would stop me! Maybe time to find a new tenant. Bruce
 
Federal crop insurance has a provision for prevented planted coverage. Partial coverage if crops cannot be planted by final date. Our area final plant date for corn is June 1 (recently was June 9), and for beans it"s June 30. No coverage for crops planted before early planting date either. Planting later provides no insurance,and this year with consistently poor weather patterns it"s too risky to plant in July.
 
We divided up the farm last year, so I only deal with the renter for 16 acres on our half. The remaining 94 acres are my uncle's now, so he can deal with them on that. After we surveyed last year and split the field, I planted a 30' wide strip of alfalfa/oats this Spring around the new property line, planning on planting trees next year. I am considering taking back 8 acres next year to plant small grain, and the remaining 8 the following year. Took back 6 acres this year for corn and the property line strip, and have taken back around 20 acres over the last 4 years for hay ground.
 
Yes. 1/2 in Spring before planting, 1/2 in Fall after harvest. If I take back some acres for next year, I'm considering planting winter wheat since there is no crop on that field this year. If so, maybe work something out with them not to charge the 2nd half of rent?
 
That's what I was wondering. Heard of some guys planting beans last year on July 1 and still doing OK, but maybe they didn't have insurance on it. This field was supposed to be corn this year, was beans last year.
 
If your renter isn't too worried about I wouldn't cut the rent until he requests it. He might be fully covered by insurance. If he cuts his input costs enough he might still get the same profit or even more than a full crop would have produced.

If trees fit your desired use of your land, plant them where you want. Trees might reduce the yield of nearby crops, so compensate your rented for that. A general guild line is that tree roots extend a little beyond the drip line of the branches. Maybe reduce the rent or the measured acres by 50 percent to 100 percent of the height of the trees X the length of the tree lines?
 
John I think I know who that BTO is. The weeds looked terrible and I don't think weeds qualify as a cover crop. My son drove through there when the dust was blowing and he said he couldn't see because of the dust cloud. A good operator would have seeded oats or some kind of other cover crop. Jim
 
Someone on here awhile back posted a link to the federal programs and what they paid out to who. All public record. The BTO in my area were on that list and they have received MILLIONS from the tax payers for farm welfare. The system is in their favor it seems. And they have the means to work the system.
 
In not a fan of the current 'prevented planting' programs and the current 'crop insurance' programs that are supported by the govt.

I think we do need some govt programs.

The current ones are going in a wrong direction, in my opinion.

Anyhow, he gets 'prevented planting' if he was unable to plant the field by a certain date.

Or he gets insurance payment if a certain amount of the crop - 20% or more most often - if the planted crop was drowned out.

In general it is more of an advantage to not replant the fields under the current prevented planting or insurance programs, even of a crop could still get in and make something of it.

Anyhow, with the price of grain dropping like a rock the last month, there certainly appears there will be no shortage of grains this year, and food prices should be coming way down in the store?

Paul
 
As others have said, a farmer can collect a prevented planting payment if the field has a cropping history and is enrolled in the right program. I farm on the SD/MN border, and we typically will have some land that is too wet to get onto, especially in a year like this. We have planted beans up until July 4, and we even planted some silage corn last Thursday. Sometimes we have planted sorghum/sudangrass or a cover crop. But one of the provisions of the prevented planting program is that you cannot harvest any grain or forage until after Nov 1 on prevent plant acres. So it actually pays better to take the prevent plant versus risking the weather in the late fall (when we typically are getting cold and snowy). Additionally, planting beyond insurance deadlines can be risky too. This would be later than late May/early June for corn or June 15 for beans. The crop insurance company will reduce the coverage available for things planted beyond the deadlines. I should add we are not BTOs by any means, we mostly just raise feed for our cow/calf operation. So, dollar-wise, we actually are punishing ourselves by planting things late for feed when we could take the prevent plant check.... But we try to plant a cover crop wherever there is land that we cannot grow a normal crop on- it is beneficial to keep something growing rather than having just bare ground or weeds. I hope this helps explain things a little.
Lon
 


Like other said, it is too late to plant and expect a good yield. You said he planned on planting corn, he may have already had herbicides applied that would kill anything planted besides corn. Around here if you plant another crop your preventive plant payment will be greatly reduced if you harvest the cover crop before November 1. And around here by November 1 the snow is flying. He could plant a cover crop but he wouldn't be allowed to harvest it and then he might have a lot of residue to contend with next spring again. Sounds to me that he has the weeds killed off and yes it may not look pretty, but in my opinion, the dead weeds and grass on the field are better than than disking it black and letting the wind blow the soil and dry it out completely.

I collected preventive plant about 4 years ago, it wouldn't stop raining in may and june. Yes I could have planted millet, but as the year turned out we had a wet fall and I would not have been able to harvest that either, so taking the paymnent was a win situation. It dried out by the middle of July, I sprayed it twice that year to keep the weeds down and next year had the best bean crop I had ever planted. I agree some people work the system beyond what it was intended but the one year I used it and needed it I am glad it was there. Insurance premium are a lot higher than they use to be but you have to have it to cover your but with the rising price of inputs. As far as the trees, if its your land, plant them wherever you want.
 
Mike, I too was against farmer welfare back when it was happening, and I'm a farmer who reaped the benefits from the program. I received a payment just because I was a farmer, like I'm a privileged person. All farm welfare did was raise the rents. No renter benefited from the program.

As far as public access to what we farmers receive goes, the public has the right to know where their tax money is spent, but the public doesn't understand what those payments are. If a farmer seals grain, which is a form of a government loan, that money loaned is listed along with the welfare payments. The farmer either has to pay off the loan or forfeit some grain as payment. I think grain bin loans are listed the same as welfare income too but I'm not 100% on that. I found that website and looked myself up and I wondered where all the money came from till I started adding it up and figured out some grain I sealed was listed too. Haven't checked it lately to see if my grain bin loan income is on the list.

In my humble opinion, all we need is some sort of an insurance program to keep the normal farmer afloat in a bad year or two. The high debt farmers with the flashy machinery they don't need, well, they can just suffer the consequences. Jim
 
Strange but not surprising that in Ohio the ATI which is a government farm (maybe state owned)is on that website list of farm welfare.

Here I go again talking about gov. on here and now it will go poof !

But this only goes to show yet another example of how what happens in DC effects all of us and our tractors. Despite those who continue to think otherwise.
 
That site's data is flawed. If you ever took out a loan from FSA on grain and then paid it back, the amount borrowed shows up as a subsidy payment, even though you no longer owe on the loan.
 
It doesn't matter how much you farm or how much machinery you have there is nothing you can do with wet ground and few farmers of any size can plant all their acres in one week. Just because your ground was dry he may have not been able to get to it on the perfect day.
 
"Our renter sprayed the weeds last Monday, since it was looking pretty bad. Now it's all brown and dead weeds, makes me sick to look at it."

What's wrong with brown weeds? It's better than green ones.

If he keeps the field open maybe he can plant wheat this fall.
 
It is a good opportunity to put in tile. It likely will be the wettest parts of the farm, and with it clear for summer you can get cheaper rates from the tile guys.

Makes your land worth more for renting, so a win win on that.

I had over 5 feet of water in some of my fields, surprisingly only had to replant 10 acres, many other acres are damaged but enough crop left to let it be.

Paul
 
Wow Loren. How nice of you. He can't get a crop in so kick him when he's down by taking the land away.

Your you're so very generous by forgiving the second half rent too. He's already paid for fertilizer last fall, paid half the rent, paid for insurance premiums and paid for spray and application costs. Maybe paid for soil tests too? In fact, the only cost he hasn't incurred yet was the corn seed and harvest fuel.
But it sounds like that money will be spent on the fuel and seed to go yet for a radish cover crop AND he won't have a cash crop to put in the bin to pay for fixed overhead costs. His machinery payments, land costs, living expenses etc. still have to be paid. Maybe HE plans on planting winter wheat. And even if he was, he still won't have any income until next year other than the insurance check and that won't hardly cover the inputs, not the fixed costs.

Maybe the right thing to do would be to forgive the second half rent AND give him a second chance next year but I'll bet he'll man up and pay it anyway. A deal is a deal right?

You traded your interest and control for a guaranteed cash rent check so why not just let the guy do as he sees fit and hold up your end of the bargain by staying out of it.

If you want to second guess his decisions then you need to farm it yourself and just hire him to custom plant, spray and harvest on your say so and then you have the right to do all the worrying.

On a side note, I don't know what being a BTO or STO has anything to do with it. Right or wrong is right or wrong regardless if it's 16 acres or 1600 acres.
 
Loren: It sounds like your not happy with how the renter is operating the ground. There is a real easy solution to this issue. Farm it yourself. You can see what type of profit or loss you can generate on your ground.

I am not a fan of BTOs at all but I do support farmers, large or small, trying to make a living. One of the things you need with today's high input costs is crop insurance. That insurance coverage includes preventing planting coverage.

Planting a crop of soybeans this late in MN would be a money loser 9 times out of 10. Your too far north for the crop to mature correctly and the yield would be low.

The cost per acre to plant even 16 acres could real easily be $4000-5000 plus the rent. So let assume you would get 30 bushels per acre yield. 30 x $11.50x16=$5520. So if he is paying you much rent at all he would just be turning dollars at the 30 BPA yield. Truthfully I bet that 20 BPA would be closer this late in MN. Maybe ZERO BPA if there is early snow.

Be glad he sprayed the weeds and is paying the rent. You really do not have much to complain about other than looks. Your field is technically HIS as long as he is current with the rent.
 
Tim(nj)- Please post your source(validated) of this info and I will gladly remove this link from my files.

Thanks
Greg1959
 
"Tim(nj)- Please post your source(validated) of this info and I will gladly remove this link from my files.
Thanks
Greg1959"

Greg I have never taken a FSA or ASCS payment but I have taken out grain loans. The data base shows that I took subsides when in FACT I never have. So I don't have a "link" to show you but I "know" it is fact.

Greg it sounds like you dislike the payments that go to farmers. The list I want to be made public information is the list of FOOD STAMP recipients. That cost is many times the cost of all of the farm subsides.

PS I don't like the subsides either but don't think your not getting the benefit of some subside or another. The effects of the subsides are spread throughout the entire economy.

AN example of this is flood insurance on residential homes. It is heavily subsidized.
 
The way I understand it the BTO is also the owner.
course he lives 60 miles south so it really doesn't
affect him. And yes on the windy days this spring
it was a black blizzard.

Made me realize what the Dirty Thirties must have
been like. Only differnce then was everybody worked
their ground till it was flour.

jt
 
Same problem here. Yes, there were alot of fields that could not have been planted until two weeks ago, but there are many that could have been planted prior to the ins deadline for full coverage. Not impressed with how 'some' BTO's play the game, large farmer close to me managed to get almost everything planted, they never stopped trying, and continued to plant as soon as feilds were able to be planted. Good farmers. Then you have the guys that just didnt even try, left areas that they could have planted, to make sure they had the 20% or what ever it took to get pre plant on the actual too wet areas. Frustrating to see some farming the land, and getting her done, while othera are farming the insurance policy.
 
JD- No, It really does not bother me one way or the other if a farmer gets a subsidy or not. Someone asked about the link to the site. I just posted the link and tim(nj) said it contained flawed data. I asked for a source so I could see for myself. If it proves to be a valid source, I would never reference the subsidy payment site again.

Greg
 
Greg,I don't think there is any public source that breaks it down as far as each idem.Same as a factory workers W2 doesn't show straight pay and over time separate.
 

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