Generator test....

I bought a Chineejunk generator a few years back. Diesel engine and a 7.5 kw generator. That derecho that came thru a few years ago put it to it's first test. And it worked fine. I did a better wire up down in the basement a few months ago and put in a breaker directly into the panel from a dryer outlet for a pigtail. Last evening, the power went out and the genny got fired up. It ran good for a couple of hours, but then went down to 150 volts and everything in the house went dim, so I shut it down and we hoped for the best.

Still no power this morning, so I hit the hardware store for a 50 amp plug for the pigtail so I could hook up a 50 kw PTO generator I bought at a farm sale over on the eastern shore early this spring. Hooked it up behind the 2520 and cranked it up. Power finally came back on around 2 or so, and it didn't miss a lick.

It's easy to hook up, has way more capacity than I'll ever need, is quieter than the Changjunk, and requires no engine maintenance other than what I have to do anyway. And it only cost me $400 for a genny that is probably $2-3 g's otherwise. I think that's a win.....

I have people all the time buying the cheap junk gensets. Then cry to me because it burnt out in less than five hours.Or they can't find parts or anyone that will work on them.

(quoted from post at 17:03: And it worked fine. I did a better wire up down in the basement a few months ago and put in a breaker directly into the panel from a dryer outlet .I hit the hardware store for a 50 amp plug for the pigtail so I could hook up a 50 kw PTO generator

It's easy to hook up, has way more capacity than I'll ever need.And it only cost me $400 for a genny that is probably $2-3 g's otherwise. I think that's a win.....

Click to expand...

Do you have any idea of just how many things you are doing wrong and the dangers? Your motivation of the almighty dollar ahead of safety.

Stroke has really effected me. buick is correct what you are posting is very unsafe. To you and a lot of people.Unless you have a code approved hook up. I hope your insurance company dosen't find out.Because if they do it is goodby insurance.Plus you can be held liable for any damage you cause.

http://www.reliancecontrols.com/ProductDetail.aspx?TWB2012DR

Sorry about that, BD. But it's a dryer hookup in
the basement from the panel- and I spent 6 years in
the Navy as an electrician.

Just because it works don't make it right.

(quoted from post at 21:40:52 07/09/14) Sorry about that, BD. But it's a dryer hookup in
the basement from the panel- and I spent 6 years in
the Navy as an electrician.

Click to expand...

Ships and home wiring are a bit different.
I hope you still have the 30 amp breaker on the panel end of this hookup or have the appropriate sized wire for the breaker.

40 amp breaker and 6 gauge cable....

You haven't said if your dryer hookup is three or four wire. If it's four wire, you're merely wrong. If you're back-feeding through a three prong receptacle you are DEAD WRONG.

BTW, there's another fella here who throws out his Navy credentials every time someone tries to correct him. Based on that, and my own experience working with USMC avionics techs for eight years leads me to discount your Navy experience. Listen to B&D; this is what he does for a living.

donjr: There will be ten people on your case about how your going to kill someone with your hook up. Never mind that generators have been hooked up that way for decades. Plus I never have seen or heard of anyone ever injured/killed by a generator hooked up like this.

Could you injure/kill someone with your hookup???
YES if you leave the main turned on. but if you don't then nothing is going to happen.

I could kill some one with my car/hammer/gun/etc. but I have not done so.

SO guys realize some people have more than one brain cell. Your talking about how the world will stop if you don't have the correct hook up made a fellow poster set with out electric/water because he would not hook up his house circuit.

In emergencies things need to be done ASAP. When everything settles down then get a correct hook up.

JD if you had seen some of the hook ups.That I have seen over forty years. Some done by experts you would understand.

Billy how are your doing???

So, how does this insurance thing come into play here???? And why are so many of you "safety police" bringing that into the mix???
Are you a qualified insurance company adjuster or representative? Do you speak for donjr's insurance company?

Seems that you need to re-read the first post. As long as you turn off the mains, there is no insurance issue, and not likely any damage issue either. AS LONG AS THE MAINS ARE TURNED OFF!!!!!

There have been cases of home generator sets backfeeding into the outside power lines. These are caused by not turning off the mains. Ideal hookup would be an isolation panel, but in an emergency situation there may not be time to get the union electrician, the code inspector, and the insurance man on the scene in time to prevent the loss of a lot of expensive food.

In an emergency situation is when someone is more likely to forget the simplest of things, like turning the main breaker off. Do you really think an insurance adjuster would keep you if you hooked up a back up generator without the proper transfer switch? It can be hard to get insurance to pay when you did everything right.

I know its done this way more often than not.

But, he said he bought the generator several years ago.

Now the power went off for a bit in summer, doesn't seem like an emergency, no frozen pipes or such gonna happen? Had time to go to the store a time or two even, coulda bought the right connectors just as easy as the wrong ones in that time?

How is this an emergency situation for today, that he can fix proper later on? He's had several years and didnt do so?

I ain't gonna buy that one, JD.

People will do whatever shortcuts they can get by with until it bites them, and I understand that is how life is. Im not going to stomp and yell.

But we shouldn't encourage that behavior. Others come here to learn. We shouldn't say oh sure any old wiring job, 50 amps back fed into a 30 amp drier plug is a perfect way to go.

That would be bad of us.

Thanks to those who point out the right way to do things, especially electrical.

If we make a plumbing mistake we might get wet, heck we might wreck a carpet. The horror!

Make an electrical mistake, and it could cost a house consuming fire or worse a death. And it might work without a hint of trouble a dozen times over years, until just the wrong combination of mistakes comes up....

Thanks again to all those that take the time to help us all, and are looking out for us.

Paul

You guys are way to scared.
I've been back feeding my 6500 watt china junk generator in a 3 prong welding plug for years, never had a problem
Matter of fact it is running as i type this post,...power went out at 5 pm.
YES i flipped the breaker at the pole,..i always do.

I have not followed all this, but if someone is backfeeding onto the utility lines, without a main transfer switch, they are exposing utility linemen in an emergency situation, and backfeeding to them NOT 120 volt power, but they are energizing back through the transformer, and energizing the commplete main power line circuit up to 7240 volts, 12470 volts phase to phase. That ignoramus can and will kill someone / lineman / innocent bystander doing that. A person thinks they will always remember, in a crisis?? That"s when it will NOT happen, I guarantee.
I noticed, also if I read this right, someone said not to worry, they put in a 40 amp breaker, thinking it was safer than a 30 amp breaker. Man is that back-a$$words wrong. Always ALWAYS use the smallest breaker. SMALLEST, not biggest.

I've been ____________ for ____________ years and never had a problem.

Fill in the blanks and you have an answer to half the posts here. Of course you've never had a problem. The guys who did whatever it was you've been doing and DID have a problem are all busy pushing up daisies and unable to respond.

That's good advice on getting a transfer switch installed. Hal

WARNING This is a long rant so DO NOT READ IT if you don't like that, but if you do then NO WHINING OR COMPLAINING, you have been forewarned!!!!

WOW, as typical when an electrical or legal question is asked it really draws out opinions, everybody comes crawling out of the woodwork, YES INCLUDING ME LOL, some lay some professional, some ignorant some educated, in my professional trained "opinion" some are right, some potentially hazardous and perhaps DEAD wrong!!!


Let me set forth some basics which may or may not be right or wrong, I'm NOT saying. However, they are based on my education (BSEE) and 40+ years as an Electrical Distribution Design Engineer (though long retired so no warranty remember) so take or leave them as you wish NO WARRANTY do whatever you please is fine by me. Consult local authority and the utility NOT me or anyone (especially lay opinions) here is my advice you can take or leave.


1) I'm talking about typical 120/240 VAC Single Phase Three Wire home distribution and emergency generators here.

2) This applies to the number of poles and connectors if you're using plug and receptacles as well as transfer switches as discussed below.

3)If you want to use only a TWO POLE Transfer switch (sort of the same effect if you just use a cord for the transfer), YOU DO NOT SWITCH THE NEUTRAL just the two UnGrounded Hot Phase Conductors. The Utility Grounded Conductor (Neutral) and the Gensets Neutral are bonded together. The incoming Utility Grounded Conductor (Neutral) is of course still earth grounded none of that is changed. In this configuration, the genset IS NOT considered as a "Separately Derived Source". In this configuration the Genets Neutral IS NOT TO BE TIED TO ITS CASE FRAME and if it exists that way that tie should be severed.

4) IMPORTANT NOTE: In the configuration above where you DO NOT switch the Neutrals (they tie together) and the genset is NOT a "Separately Derived Source" and you are transferring 120/240 volt Single Phase Three Wire and you use a cord, YOU NEED A 3 POLE 4 WIRE GROUNDING PLUG AND RECEPTACLE (i.e. 4 terminals 4 wires) AND OF COURSE A 4 CONDUCTOR CORD

NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

only a 3 wire (3 terminals 3 wires). A typical 240 volt (only) appliance plug and receptacle (2 pole 3 wire grounding) for a load that's 240 ONLY (no 120) DOES NOT SUFFICE AND COULD PRESENT A HAZARD but if you want to do it that way its your life, your home, your risk so do as you wish !!!!!!!!

5) Now, as to how and why it can be hazardous to NOT use the sufficient number of conductors/terminals/poles (3 when 4 are required) has to do with the potential hazards of mixing, matching, and substituting Equipment GroundING Conductors for the Neutral Grounded Conductor. NOTE I've tried here for years to educate the Billy Bobs out there why that's hazardous but I give up, they cant and never will understand it, but that's not anything bad against them, its just that you cant take what requires years of study and experience and volumes of books and describe it here in a paragraph. HOWEVER DO NOTTTTTTTT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT, STUDY THE NEC AND WHAT THE TRUE EXPERTS SAY AND MAYBE YOU WILL SEE WHY IT CAN BE HAZARDOUS.

6) TO THOSE WHO DID IT THAT WAY FOR YEARS AND NEVER HAD A PROBLEM. That's fine do as you wish, I'm NOT telling you to do it otherwise. HOWEVER just because it WORKS does NOT mean its the safest way and NOT potentially hazardous. You may possibly perhaps just want to stop and think that maybe just maybe the EXPERTS like the panel who write the NEC, who are trained and experienced professionals and know 1000 times more then you or I about electrical safety and hazards JUST MAYBE THEY KNOW MORE THEN YOU AND BILLY BOB!!!

HOWEVER ITS YOUR LIFE, YOUR HOME, YOUR FAMILY AT RISK NOT ME, SO DO AS YOU PLEASE AND IGNORE THE TRUE EXPERTS IF THEY SAY ITS HAZARDOUS BUT YOU THINK YOU KNOW MORE THEN THEM!!!!!!!!! If your doctor says you need heart surgery or will die and its hazardous if you don't, do you take their advice or Billy Bobs or a Tractor Forum LOL

7) Finally to those who worry, or those who do NOT worry about a genset backfeeding the utility and possibly causing death, IT HAS HAPPENED ITS POSSIBLE GIVEN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES. However, trained professional linemen and NOT STUPID so its rare it ever happens anymore BUT IT STILL COULD. A close friend is a Journeyman lineman (and I worked with many many of them for years when I practiced) and they can see if theres lights on in a home and they can hear a genset running BUT JUST IN CASE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES THEY DISCONNECT OR GROUND LINES to prevent such a problem. SO, ITS RARE IT COULD HAPPEN but why take a chance when a life is at stake.

CONCLUSION for 120/240 Volt Single Phase Three Wire emergency genset distribution, do as you please and use 3 wires (even where 4 is safest per the NEC and Utility Company and Experts) and as you wish and ignore whats safest and the NEC says AT YOUR OWN PERIL as you like or if ITS ALWAYS WORKED BEFORE BY GOLLY LOL. Its your home your life at risk and maybe the finest experts in the world dont know as much as your or your brother in law or Billy Bob say. BUT MAYBE THEY ARE RIGHT AND YOURE WRONG HMMMMMMMM WANT TO BET YOUR LIFE ON THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FEEL FREE

Im here to help NOT fight or argue so yall do as you wish or whats worked for years and what you think is best regardless if experts say otherwise if you're convinced you know more then them, no sweat off me, its NOT my home or familys life at risk....... Again DO NOT take my advice it may be wrong it may be right, but if you do want to take the advice of EXPERTS regarding life threatening situations, consult local utility providers and/or the NEC instead of non trained non profession non expert lay opinions even if their way always worked no problems!! Your life your choice

God Bless, keep safe, best wishes

John T

AMEN, see my rant above lol

John T

And just because its right doesn't mean it will work.

Here's one case of a lineman being electrocuted by a backfeed:

http://www.oshrc.gov/decisions/html_2007/06-0166.htm

You can easily find more documented cases with google searches.

Those of you guys with the, "Nothing Bad is Ever Gonna Happen 'Cuz I'm Mr. Never Gets Sick Never Gonna Die Never Goes Away Never Forgets Anything" attitude, just stop and give it some thought. Can you even fathom taking another person's life in any way shape or form?

There are a lot of ways you can take a life that are out of your control but this one is most definitely within your control, and can be completely eliminated with an interlock or transfer switch.

(quoted from post at 01:23:24 07/10/14) You guys are way to scared.
I've been back feeding my 6500 watt china junk generator in a 3 prong welding plug for years, never had a problem
Matter of fact it is running as i type this post,...power went out at 5 pm.
YES i flipped the breaker at the pole,..i always do.

Click to expand...

Well there Bubba. Why haven't you carried on from where Nikola Tesla left off? Being that you are smarter than the experts and engineers that wrote the National Building code, the National Electrical code, utility code inspectors, planning engineers, linesmen and licensed electricians ?
You are woefully ignorant of electricity if your criteria of right and wrong solely relies on if the light turns on.
You are just cheap and like to brag how you are so smart to " get by" with a sneaky shortcut .

John, I could not have said it better myself.

To the hand full of you fellows who do your best to help people get the generators, etc. connected/grounded properly and safely, my hat is off. Many words about the code and lineman safety.......right on. One area that might be another tool, maybe a lever, to try to obtain proper and safe installations, I think, might be to address the safety of the homeowner/generator operator. Kinda dampens the "rules are for the other guy" thinking, when the danger comes home.
I know that generators may or may not have chassis to neutral connection & may have provision to enable or disable that connection. I'm sure there are various faults that could occur either way that would make the generator chassis hot, may be lethal to operator. Such as internal line to chassis where you [u:755d0dd252]don't have chassis to neutral bonding in generator.[/u:755d0dd252]
Or the third wire path in the "3 prong dryer" plug opens anywhere between generator neutral and the panel, when you [u:755d0dd252]do have generator chassis to neutral bonding[/u:755d0dd252], the chassis may be lethal to operator. You fellows can probably come up with other circumstances, too. Just a thought.

(quoted from post at 06:45:20 07/10/14)

(quoted from post at 01:23:24 07/10/14) You guys are way to scared.
I've been back feeding my 6500 watt china junk generator in a 3 prong welding plug for years, never had a problem
Matter of fact it is running as i type this post,...power went out at 5 pm.
YES i flipped the breaker at the pole,..i always do.

Click to expand...

Well there Bubba. Why haven't you carried on from where Nikola Tesla left off? Being that you are smarter than the experts and engineers that wrote the National Building code, the National Electrical code, utility code inspectors, planning engineers, linesmen and licensed electricians ?
You are woefully ignorant of electricity if your criteria of right and wrong solely relies on if the light turns on.
You are just cheap and like to brag how you are so smart to " get by" with a sneaky shortcut .

Click to expand...

ey Bubba yourself.
I asked the Power line man supervisor if it was OK to hook up my generator the way i did when a forest fire had destroyed our incoming power line a couple years ago and it would take a couple days to have the power restored
He came over to inspect it and said it is OK but it would be better to have it hooked to a transfer switch at the utillity pole for safety reasons.

The last time i had a "professional" doing work for me was a gas fitter to change my mobile home furnace from propane to nat gas twenty odd years ago.(it had to be done before the gas company would hook me up to the newly installed line)
Well guess what?.
When i went to lite the pilot later that day i smelled gas,..The sucker had forgotten to connect the main line back to the burner.
Had i lit a match i would've been blown to kingdom come. :shock:

Your point? You had an inspector look the other way? Well aren't you the clever smooth talker. The inspector did tell you quoting your own words that the connection was wrong.
You think pro's make mistakes? Just take a look at the Bubba jobs for mistakes .
Make the connection correct and keep your ego out of it.

(quoted from post at 11:26:03 07/10/14)
Your point? You had an inspector look the other way? Well aren't you the clever smooth talker. [b:ccfca7c576]The inspector did tell you quoting your own words that the connection was wrong.[/b:ccfca7c576]
You think[b:ccfca7c576] pro's make mistakes?[/b:ccfca7c576] Just take a look at the [b:ccfca7c576]Bubba jobs for mistakes [/b:ccfca7c576].
Make the connection correct and[b:ccfca7c576] keep your ego out of it[/b:ccfca7c576].

Click to expand...

ope, he said the connection was OK.The transfer switch is just a safety measure.

The only diff is one has the papers and the other has not.
I rather get killed by my own mistake than by a " professional "

Who is talking?... Mister perfect

(quoted from post at 14:42:50 07/10/14)

(quoted from post at 11:26:03 07/10/14)
Your point? You had an inspector look the other way? Well aren't you the clever smooth talker. [b:d95cb669fd]The inspector did tell you quoting your own words that the connection was wrong.[/b:d95cb669fd]
You think[b:d95cb669fd] pro's make mistakes?[/b:d95cb669fd] Just take a look at the [b:d95cb669fd]Bubba jobs for mistakes [/b:d95cb669fd].
Make the connection correct and[b:d95cb669fd] keep your ego out of it[/b:d95cb669fd].

Click to expand...

ope, he said the connection was OK.The transfer switch is just a safety measure.

The only diff is one has the papers and the other has not.
I rather get killed by my own mistake than by a " professional "

Who is talking?... Mister perfect

Click to expand...

I try to be better and you don't bother.

(quoted from post at 13:40:32 07/10/14)

(quoted from post at 14:42:50 07/10/14)

(quoted from post at 11:26:03 07/10/14)
Your point? You had an inspector look the other way? Well aren't you the clever smooth talker. [b:c38a22d35a]The inspector did tell you quoting your own words that the connection was wrong.[/b:c38a22d35a]
You think[b:c38a22d35a] pro's make mistakes?[/b:c38a22d35a] Just take a look at the [b:c38a22d35a]Bubba jobs for mistakes [/b:c38a22d35a].
Make the connection correct and[b:c38a22d35a] keep your ego out of it[/b:c38a22d35a].

Click to expand...

ope, he said the connection was OK.The transfer switch is just a safety measure.

The only diff is one has the papers and the other has not.
I rather get killed by my own mistake than by a " professional "

Who is talking?... Mister perfect

Click to expand...

I try to be better and your don't bother.

Click to expand...

hy would i?.
I said nothing wrong.

Pretty easy to sit back, do nothing and criticize.

(quoted from post at 15:42:16 07/10/14)
Pretty easy to sit back, do nothing and criticize.

Click to expand...

ooking in the mirror are ye :wink:

Lets note what sound and legal technical advice Bison had to offer?

Quote "You guys are way to scared.
I've been back feeding my 6500 watt china junk generator in a 3 prong welding plug for years, never had a problem
Matter of fact it is running as i type this post,...power went out at 5 pm.
YES i flipped the breaker at the pole,..i always do.

Hey Bubba yourself.
I asked the Power line man supervisor if it was OK to hook up my generator the way i did when a forest fire had destroyed our incoming power line a couple years ago and it would take a couple days to have the power restored
He came over to inspect it and said it is OK but it would be better to have it hooked to a transfer switch at the utillity pole for safety reasons.

The last time i had a "professional" doing work for me was a gas fitter to change my mobile home furnace from propane to nat gas twenty odd years ago.(it had to be done before the gas company would hook me up to the newly installed line)
Well guess what?.
When i went to lite the pilot later that day i smelled gas,..The sucker had forgotten to connect the main line back to the burner.
Had i lit a match i would've been blown to kingdom come. Shocked

Nope, he said the connection was OK.The transfer switch is just a safety measure.

The only diff is one has the papers and the other has not.
I rather get killed by my own mistake than by a " professional "

Who is talking?... Mister perfect

Why would i?.
I said nothing wrong.

Looking in the mirror are ye Wink"

Unquote

donjr, I did the same thing you"re doing, through a welder plug, for many years, without issue. About eight years ago I installed a stationary whole house 16K automatic generator, and it"s some of the best money I ever spent. That being said, I have a question. IF someone was incompetent enough to leave the main on while running their 6.5k generator, or even one much larger, wouldn"t the generator be overloaded trying to run the whole neighborhood, and simply die, or throw it"s breaker? I have overloaded my portable in the past, and it tripped it"s breaker.

(quoted from post at 16:51:44 07/10/14)
Lets note what sound and legal technical advice Bison had to offer?

Quote "You guys are way to scared.
I've been back feeding my 6500 watt china junk generator in a 3 prong welding plug for years, never had a problem
Matter of fact it is running as i type this post,...power went out at 5 pm.
YES i flipped the breaker at the pole,..i always do.

Hey Bubba yourself.
I asked the Power line man supervisor if it was OK to hook up my generator the way i did when a forest fire had destroyed our incoming power line a couple years ago and it would take a couple days to have the power restored
He came over to inspect it and said it is OK but it would be better to have it hooked to a transfer switch at the utillity pole for safety reasons.

The last time i had a "professional" doing work for me was a gas fitter to change my mobile home furnace from propane to nat gas twenty odd years ago.(it had to be done before the gas company would hook me up to the newly installed line)
Well guess what?.
When i went to lite the pilot later that day i smelled gas,..The sucker had forgotten to connect the main line back to the burner.
Had i lit a match i would've been blown to kingdom come. Shocked

Nope, he said the connection was OK.The transfer switch is just a safety measure.

The only diff is one has the papers and the other has not.
I rather get killed by my own mistake than by a " professional "

Who is talking?... Mister perfect

Why would i?.
I said nothing wrong.

Looking in the mirror are ye Wink"

Unquote

Click to expand...

o nice of you to put that all together buick.
Ye gonna use that as reference material for proper standby generator hookup fer yerself.

Or was you just bored :evil:

(quoted from post at 22:13:00 07/10/14) donjr, I did the same thing you"re doing, through a welder plug, for many years, without issue. About eight years ago I installed a stationary whole house 16K automatic generator, and it"s some of the best money I ever spent. That being said, I have a question. [b:88e6227444]IF someone was incompetent enough to leave the main on while running their 6.5k generator, or even one much larger, wouldn"t the generator be overloaded trying to run the whole neighborhood, and simply die, or throw it"s breaker? [/b:88e6227444]I have overloaded my portable in the past, and it tripped it"s breaker.

Click to expand...

Toolz, I was thinking the exact same thing when I read the post about backfeeding but figured I'd read to the bottom of the thread before posting the question. Interesting that nobody has responded and answered your question. BTW, I agree that a transfer switch is the "correct" way to use a backup generator. I installed one myself when I bought my generator. (I expect someone will chastise me for not having a licensed electrician do that :wink: )

As for linemen, I know a couple who say they treat EVERY wire as if it's live and assume someone is backfeeding when working in storm restoration situations. I also have passed crews working to restore power where a guy is carrying an end of a downed wire in his hand. I DO know they test their gloves/boots regularly for insulation purposes.

(quoted from post at 23:01:20 07/10/14)

(quoted from post at 16:51:44 07/10/14)
Lets note what sound and legal technical advice Bison had to offer?

Quote "You guys are way to scared.
I've been back feeding my 6500 watt china junk generator in a 3 prong welding plug for years, never had a problem
Matter of fact it is running as i type this post,...power went out at 5 pm.
YES i flipped the breaker at the pole,..i always do.

Hey Bubba yourself.
I asked the Power line man supervisor if it was OK to hook up my generator the way i did when a forest fire had destroyed our incoming power line a couple years ago and it would take a couple days to have the power restored
He came over to inspect it and said it is OK but it would be better to have it hooked to a transfer switch at the utillity pole for safety reasons.

The last time i had a "professional" doing work for me was a gas fitter to change my mobile home furnace from propane to nat gas twenty odd years ago.(it had to be done before the gas company would hook me up to the newly installed line)
Well guess what?.
When i went to lite the pilot later that day i smelled gas,..The sucker had forgotten to connect the main line back to the burner.
Had i lit a match i would've been blown to kingdom come. Shocked

Nope, he said the connection was OK.The transfer switch is just a safety measure.

The only diff is one has the papers and the other has not.
I rather get killed by my own mistake than by a " professional "

Who is talking?... Mister perfect

Why would i?.
I said nothing wrong.

Looking in the mirror are ye Wink"

Unquote

Click to expand...

o nice of you to put that all together buick.
Ye gonna use that as reference material for proper standby generator hookup fer yerself.

Or was you just bored :evil:

Click to expand...

I just care enough to try and save the world from the likes of you.