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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

What does Private Property mean?

Author  [Modern View]
Greg1959

05-20-2014 16:59:04
69.176.13.178



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My property is posted with 'DO not Enter" signs. I even had 36 tons of #4 limestone dumped at the entrance, although with a small entry way around the side.

Again, today. I hear a truck trying to turn around in my drive. I go out and ask him, 'What are you doing on my property?'

He says he is putting out 'Insect' traps.

I tell him that this is private property. He disagrees with me and says it is on his GPS a County Road. I told him that the county has not paid for anything to build or upkeep this road and he needs to retrieve his 'insect traps'

I informed him that the county road ended when he left the 'blacktop'....around a half mile away

He tried to get belligerent I asked him to vacate the premises but he wanted to argue his point about the road being listed on GPS.

I told him to collect whatever he put out and not enter my property again. He was not happy


Greg

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mab570diesel

05-23-2014 09:15:01
76.6.167.164



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeThat has to be one of the silliest things i have ever heard!do you leave your money lay around?No!so you must be a BANK ROBBER RIGHT?



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axe55

05-22-2014 23:50:27
67.142.182.27



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
He should have left as soon aas you informed him it was private property .I would have called his supervisor or the police. Things like that inspections etc, have to have permission of property owner. I own property in a small village...a worker checked property for mosquito larvae I called.sheriffs office, they said worker needed to ask permission..no more of that... good luck



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john *.?-!.* cub owner

05-22-2014 19:31:21
174.125.0.179



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
I can see where you may get tired of people coming and tunring around in your driveway all the time, but no use to get off on the driver, the digital maps the GPS systems use are supplied by each local county. He had no way of knowing it was wrong. As to the insect traps you should have thanked him, they are trying to determine if there are certain types of harmful insects in the area that can damage trees.
This post was edited by john *.?-!.* cub owner at 19:31:39 05/22/14.

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kennytractor

05-22-2014 07:15:47
64.147.45.91



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
GPS is not perfect. You can't blame someone for for that.
I see no problem with people turning around in my drive away. I get lost drivers in the yard all the time wanting directions. They don't hurt a thing.

I find that people who put up keep out and no trespassing signs and lock everything up are the very same people who are doing the stealing and trespassing.



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Hal/ Eastern WA

05-21-2014 15:33:52
97.114.82.134



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
From what I was taught years ago, private property signs meant nothing in my State, at least as far as enforcing the trespassing law. As I remember it, the signs had to read: No Trespassing and I think there were other details as to where the signs had to be and how close together.

I have had to run people off my property at various times. If they cut my fence, the law WILL be involved. If they used a gate and leave without too much hassle, I just ask them to not come back.

The worst ones are the dumpers and the shooters. They come out from town and just think they can go anywhere and do whatever they please. I try to educate them, sometimes a little harshly.

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NNP

05-21-2014 06:59:17
66.66.112.196



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
I have lots of keep out, no trespassing signs...

which were/are always ignored.
Putting a very light, very easily breakable, (for liability reasons)

chain and hook (no lock) across my driveway with a large Beware of Dog sign

hanging in the middle has worked wonders.

My Rott passed away 10 years ago. Sign still works.
No salesmen, etc...even new delivery people that don't know the truth won't cross it.

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Brent Zappe

05-21-2014 07:09:51
69.230.48.204



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to NNP, 05-21-2014 06:59:17  
I can see people where you live are not any smarter than the big city where I live. They just do not understand or read signs. I have a dog and the city made me put signs up that says beware of dog. ever since I did that I find more people in my back yard. Private Property means it is your own land. My dad has a sign that reads Caution Bulls on land Run like hell. It works.L.O.L



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JimIA

05-21-2014 06:30:05
208.74.246.171



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
We have a neighbor that owns land the we have land locked. He uses this land for hunting and camping, which is fine. But for some reason he also thinks that driving across a plowed field with his pickup is ok, along with driving their 4 wheelers all around our farm and target shooting towards our buildings which ended up with bullet holes in my A-C shed, just to name a few things. I could go on and on and on of the problems we have had with this person.
There is just no respect for private property anymore.

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mkirsch

05-21-2014 06:15:34
65.199.189.6



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
With the millions of miles of road in the USA alone, I'm sure that there is no physical person "approving" every inch of it for inclusion in GPS databases.

What you have, is some sort of recognition software that reads satellite images and/or scanned maps, and figures out for itself whether something is a public highway or not.

Even if a person were approving every inch, mistakes would be made, which is fine and dandy until it's your driveway.

BTW, those blue traps are to detect for emerald ash borers.

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W_B

05-21-2014 08:14:05
155.188.183.24



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to mkirsch, 05-21-2014 06:15:34  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Some (rich) friends have two miles of paved driveways on their 500 acre farm/estate off of a major highway. Those driveways all show on the GPS and the mapping software as "roads". I can't imagine how many lookey loo's they have to run off who just have to know whats down that "road". If the old lady who lives near the main gate sees them she'll run them off right away, but it's easy to just blow by her place. She knows us so we just wave and say Hi! to her when she comes out. They are both retired (sold out a building materials mfg. business many years ago) and have a couple of people working for them around the place so there's been on mischief, so far.
As has been said, folks have little respect for private property.

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bison

05-21-2014 09:07:52
69.168.144.142



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to W_B, 05-21-2014 08:14:05  
Private property means you get to pay the taxes(rent) on it but the gubmint actually owns it.

If you don't believe that,..quit paying taxes and you'll find out. :wink:



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Donald Lehman

05-21-2014 06:10:19
50.49.168.122



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
Around here you might as well wipe yer butt with your posted signs. Only way you can keep people off is get really , really nasty when you catch em. If that doesn't work you have to press charges. It stinks and no one wants to be a Pr!^&, but people don't leave us much choice.

Had a bunch of kids tore up an old hay field a few years back. One was stuck in a mud hole. Told him my 1955 was about 600 yards away and if he wasn't gone by the time I got back with it, his pickup was going to become a pancake and a permanent part of the mudhole. Don't know how he got the thing out, but he was gone by the time I got back with the 1955. (smile)

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John T

05-21-2014 05:45:52
216.249.72.121



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
I'm not familiar with any new laws that have been passed whereby the Government has granted the Garmin Corporation or Google Maps etc the authority to determine public roads or public access etc., so the fact Garmin shows one thing or another means nothing legally.

In cases where the county has done a "taking" via Eminent Domain and declared an access is now a public road etc., then the public has use of that road, HOWEVER a private driveway on private property is NOT open to Billy Bob and Bubba. In some states in some counties the County Surveyor is permitted to enter private property for the purpose of locating or setting section corners but NOT private surveyors. If utility companies have easements they are also permitted to inspect and maintain them over private property.

For years the Government was only permitted to condemn land by eminent domain for "necessary" public use such as roads or bridges or utilities etc., HOWEVER a Supreme Court decision some time back now allows in effect a PRIVATE taking by a PRIVATE company for things such as economic efficiency or best use, maybe a shopping mall lol.

The problem is ever try to fight the Federal Government (I have)?? Its almost impossible as they have unlimited money and thousands of attorneys and they will wear you down and break you financially, its as bad as fighting the IRS.

Nuff said

John T Country Lawyer

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low budget

05-21-2014 05:37:24
70.100.207.127



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
I was coming back with a tractor and manure spreader down my farm road and met up with a man and his son. Claimed it showed up on his GPS, its possible because it is used as a snowmobile trail, with my permission. Any how, he was interested in looking at some landmarks on the long extinct Ontario and Western RR that cuts through my property. I don't own the Rail Road property. We ended up having a pleasant conversation. At one time the O&W RR hauled more milk than any other Rail Road.

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Pitch

05-21-2014 05:29:12
67.240.245.26



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
We have a problem with landowners attempting to claim unmaintained roads. Even if a township abandons a road,it is still a road. There has been more than one case of landowners gating abandoned roads.



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JML755

05-21-2014 05:16:56
97.78.165.184



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to 1970-1655, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Now that's funny. Imagine what would have happened if you didn't call. Kaboom! There is a 90 ft pipeline easement that runs for half a mile along one side of my property. (2) 36" gasoline/natural gas buried lines on it, gas company periodically cuts it as do I. Sign posts all down it with woods on both sides but I own through the easement up to the woods on the other side. I routinely see ATVers, snowmobilers who think that the easement is "public property". Most are neighbors but I get the occasional guys who ride down it from who knows where and see fit to take down the field fence "gate" in the middle of a chain-link fence that crosses it with the "No Trespassing" signs. I even walked one guy over to the survey stake when he insisted that I didn't own it.
When I first bought the property I caught a neighbor with a Ski-doo in tow behind an ATV heading over to my pond. He insisted the pond was "state-owned". I was friendly and offered to show him the property survey recorded with the County.
Biggest problem is the hunters. I've posted signs, told everyone who has asked, "NO!" and I still find tree blinds or tracks and bait piles.
All in all, I think most people are respectful of property rights or we'd be overrun during the peak hunting, ATVing, snowmobiling times. It doesn't take many idiots to give EVERYONE a bad name, though.

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Bret4207

05-21-2014 04:00:54
64.19.90.196



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
I'll try not to let this turn into a rant, but most people today have zero respect for private property. Usually these people are townies that live in a nice house on a lot and own snowmobiles, ATVs, boats, outdoor gear, etc. The Sierra Club and Gore-tex crowd, the "environmentally conscious" are the worst, possibly only exceeded by college professors of geology or environmental studies who seem to think that an interesting rock or plant seen from the road gives them the right to cross your fences and take 35 of their little brain dead minions across your new planting. Next worse are the druggies that will plant your back fields in pot. After that comes the so called "hunters" who can afford $60K worth of truck, trailer, ATV and tree stand but are too cheap to buy a membership to a club or to break down and buy some land of their own.

I won't expand on this, let's just say that what's yours is yours and what's mine is mine as far as I'm concerned. We have hundreds of thousands of acres of state land but apparently that land just isn't as nice as mine!

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W_B

05-21-2014 08:00:42
155.188.247.24



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Bret4207, 05-21-2014 04:00:54  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

That being said, just don't pay your land taxes and the government will show you who really owns it!



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ronnie graves

05-20-2014 22:03:50
205.188.117.10



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
well we have some new folks in the community that think they "OWN" the pipe line right-of-way all the signs and valves and other stuff they started a house and was going to dig a big pond when I called the 1-800-emergency number on the pipeline sign little did I know that the pipeline co was going to respond as fast as they did, first on site was a big helicopter (should have said hell-a-copter) then local law enforcement by nightfall they knew why they could not dig or build , they said the signs didnt' explain it clear but now they know real good !!

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Waltdavies

05-20-2014 21:04:31
70.210.132.111



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
My driveway is on most GPSs as as short cut to the main highway. But it only go the house the rest is cow paster. Every once in while I see a car come in reach the house and then turn around. Doesn't bother me sometimes I go out and talk to them just for fun.
Walt



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Mark - IN.

05-20-2014 19:48:30
98.215.76.204



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  

Put some of these around the place, and from time to time walk around the property wearing a red rain slicker on bright sunny days where everyone driving by gasps, "Oh my God", and hammers their gas peddles.



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Russ from MN

05-20-2014 19:42:07
68.235.89.20



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
We wanted to use an old logging road one time and our neighbor had a sign in the middle of it. We called around to check if he could do that. What we found out is if there has never been any public money spent to improve the road, and the property on both sides is owned by the same person, then he can block it.



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showcrop

05-21-2014 05:00:28
75.67.231.80



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Russ from MN, 05-20-2014 19:42:07  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Russ, here in the old northeast that is termed "subject to gates and bars". Any class IV, V or VI highway, or any portion thereof, may be discontinued as an open highway and made subject to gates and bars, by vote of the town. Such a discontinued highway shall not have the status of a publicly approved street. This means that it does not get maintained anymore and the town is not liable but it is there for use.

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jennifer408

05-20-2014 19:38:10
67.142.162.20



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
some day i want to make a sign like this that reads "caution,sudden gunfire"



P.S. i tried to post and it kept saying "failed to connect" so i kept hitting submit. :)



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farmerwithmutt

05-20-2014 19:16:38
166.181.81.102



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
I put up leased property signs better at getting after trespassers after all if the lived in a rented apartment they would be upset if the landlord let somebody beside the renter use it.there are also some legal advantages on signs saying leased property vs no trespassing
On insect traps they can ask to place them there. i caught one trying to sneak one in and i found a dead squirrel and added him to the trap i wonder how that was reported.

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kendallt

05-20-2014 19:11:50
172.242.179.70



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
I have a similar issue here. In my case state land is behind my property, have people all the time cutting across my land to get to the state land. Always, they have the same argument "I can't keep them away from public lands". I always tell them they're right, but I can keep them off my property.



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Ken Macfarlane

05-20-2014 19:05:01
207.219.69.133



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
We have a crown reserve road that runs through our property. Was held to access lots in the rear for some imagined future of development. They are spaced every mile or so at right angles to the road and run 6 to 10 miles deep. Only about 1/10 ever turned to dirt road, ours is woods and fields fenced with our property. I can't really kick people off it but it's rarely a problem.



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rla

05-20-2014 18:27:30
69.35.177.181



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
As long as I'm treated & my property is treated with respect anyone is welcome to walk on it. Hunt on it, place insect traps on it...



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tbish

05-21-2014 04:38:18
50.45.56.111



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to rla, 05-20-2014 18:27:30  
Well said I like your post everyone welcome at my place also



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jdemaris

05-20-2014 18:20:27
70.194.0.92



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
Come to think about it - the idea of truly private property is almost dead. Don't pay your taxes and it's taken. If a government entity wants it and you won't let them have it -they often take it anyway by Eminent Domain. I was told that if I fenced off my land to keep out 4-wheelers - and someone gets hurt by the fence while they are trespassing - I am liable.



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alinark

05-20-2014 18:20:02
70.178.200.245



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
Greg i would put down a buncha nails and then hang a sign TIRE REPAIRS REASONABLE



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showcrop

05-20-2014 18:35:19
75.67.231.80



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to alinark, 05-20-2014 18:20:02  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Greg, of course you don't say where you are, but here in the East there are literally thousands of miles of class six public roads. Class six means public right of way that is no longer maintained for public travel but it is still open to the public taking their own chances. Many roads get closed by town meeting and if it was originally a town laid out road, the land CAN goes back to the abuttors, but only if the warrant article is written that way but it rarely is. If it was originally a kings grant road which probably does not exist in the west and midwest, the right of way stays there unless the town makes arrangements with the state to dispose of it by selling to an abuttor. In the town where I live we have 64 miles of streets and roads, and then we have probably another twenty of class six roads which are still available for anyone to use.

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jdemaris

05-20-2014 18:17:04
70.194.0.92



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
I had the same thing happen on some land I own in northern NY near Fort Drum. Truck came through hanging blue insect traps up high. One guy had a saw and was trimming some trees where they hung low. All my land. No public road. These guys were from the NY Department of Conservation. They said they were instructed my road was a public-use trail. I threw them out. Who knows what will happen next.

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GeneMO

05-20-2014 18:15:51
71.51.202.146



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
I have a 1/2 mile lane to the back side of my farm. It has a locked, metal gate, with a sign that reads "DANGER KEEP OUT"

So far no problems.

Course most of the neighbors think I am 3/4 crazy and are afraid of me.

that helps! :lol:
Gene



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Glennster

05-20-2014 18:04:10
99.90.9.201



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
Maybe post a sign........warning.. Your gps is wrong. The lane ahead is a private driveway, not a public road. Thank you.



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Traditional Farmer

05-20-2014 18:03:36
67.237.187.86



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
My neighbor who lives behind part of my farm and I have the same problem the driveway comes off the state road branches off to a house on my property and the main part of the road continues back thru my
property to their farm where they have 2 houses.
We have 'sightseers' all the time come into the clearly marked Private Drive.To make matters worse the county Gov't in their infinite stupidity decided to name all private roads with two or more houses a few years ago the signs say "Private" but of course people don't bother to see that.To top it off my neighbor and I were both sitting in our trucks in the driveway talking awhile back and this fellow blows the horn at us my neighbor asked him what he wanted he says we need to get the H--- out of the road.
That brought a great response(LOL.People in general have very little respect for private property rights anymore.

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dpendzic

05-20-2014 17:42:14
71.127.13.157



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
you will have to check deeds and surveys to see who owns the road---there are many "paper roads" that exist thru fields and forest owned by government



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FBH44

05-20-2014 17:36:40
64.85.214.228



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
You ought to be able to go to the County Assessor's Ofice, ask to see the aerial ownership map, and nail the answer right there. Ought to be able to buy a copy if you wanted. The other thing it think of, is, if he's setting out insect traps to seeif you are getting an invasive species, that's gonna kill every one of your ash trees, maybe kill all your red oaks, you might welcome him back.



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jennifer408

05-20-2014 17:20:08
67.142.162.20



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
my bad, im gonna learn how ta drive this thing one of these days.
This post was edited by jennifer408 at 05:49:14 05/21/14.



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IH2444

05-20-2014 17:22:25
98.67.146.165



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to jennifer408, 05-20-2014 17:20:08  
Yes you might have to gate it...

Actually I would check with the county deeds office.
This post was edited by IH2444 at 17:23:19 05/20/14.



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jennifer408

05-20-2014 17:13:59
67.142.162.20



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
darn kompuker.
This post was edited by jennifer408 at 05:46:51 05/21/14.



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jennifer408

05-20-2014 17:13:59
67.142.162.20



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
oopppsie
This post was edited by jennifer408 at 05:42:14 05/21/14.



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jennifer408

05-20-2014 17:11:04
67.142.162.20



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
you might have to gate it off right there at the blacktop. give yourself 40' or so off the road so you will have room to pull up with your truck and trailer and be safely off the blacktop. in the meanwhile you could try and post some no trespassing signs at the blacktop but folks can't read anymore. good luck



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ShadetreeRet

05-20-2014 22:39:46
184.4.13.135



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to jennifer408, 05-20-2014 17:11:04  
Jennifer, I think you made your point! LOL. Sorry, I just had to say that.



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MarkB_MI

05-20-2014 17:09:54
75.198.53.188



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
GPS maps are notoriously unreliable when it comes to secondary roads. That said, are you sure there isn't a road easement across your property? If the alleged "road" is on a section line, it's almost a certainty that an easement existed, although the county could have abandoned it. In most states there's a formal process for abandoning a road easement; just because the county never maintained a road on the section line doesn't mean it has abandoned its easement.

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Greg1959

05-20-2014 17:30:02
69.176.13.178



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to MarkB_MI, 05-20-2014 17:09:54  
Mark- There are no easements. It seems that I encounter this problem about every two days.

Greg



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Mo in NE Tx

05-20-2014 17:06:31
71.96.129.12



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 Re: What does Private Property mean? in reply to Greg1959, 05-20-2014 16:59:04  
GPS's are notorious for being wrong, they show my terrace around my place as a numbered road. Surprised some idiot has not tried to drive down it.



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