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OT: We are getting dumber

D

Dick2

Well-known Member
New ratings just released. The U.S. is now the 26th in math and the 21st in science. Corporations are searching worldwide to fill positions that require math and/or science, as they cannot find what they need from our graduates.

Of course, the Asian countries are the top 3 in both categories.

We can blame our school systems, but ahead of that is the failure of parents to guide their kids in the right direction and society in general for putting too much emphasis on things that are not of any real value.
 
I think its a different problem all together. I have a finance who teaches advanced math at the high school level and these kids are only worried about memorizing the material testing and moving on to the next subject. Too many things to actually LEARN the material or why to do this or that and when.

Not to mention that we as a society push kids to college so there are tons of graduates with degrees that can"t find jobs while we have a need for skilled workers like electricians, carpenters, etc.... These are dying trades because we as a society tell these kids that they have to go to college to be successful.

just my thoughts.
 
I think part of the problem is we rate high school SPORTS higher than EDUCATION!

I remember well, watching the football players hand in uncompleted homework to the history teacher (football coach) and not only get a passing grade but get bonus points because they remembered to bring their BOOK!
 
Electricians are doing ok, but even they have hard times sometimes, construction can be feast or famine biz. Carpenters are a dime a dozen, there isn't any barriers to being a carpenter, so pay and bennies are almost nonexistent. Lots of guys with a truck or van scraping out a bare living as a carpenter. Most end up on disability, the redneck retirement plan.
 
Kids nowdays think they have to be entertained all their waking hrs,hard work and discpline that it takes to learn are
gone for the most part.Plus alot of the 17 yr old
single moms aren't a lot better than their kids.
 
Part of the reason for all the standardized testing. Another reason was that some teachers never covered all the material, which would then cause problems for the following year.

Of course movies and TV don't help. How often do you see a smart student as popular or happy? All too often the "heroes" are idiots and/or dopers. And all teachers who actually teach are killjoys.
 
Lol, isn't that the truth.

Back in 1978, I worked with a 25 year old guy that NEVER LEARNED the difference between AM & PM . Heck I learned that before I was 6 years old. Just WHAT are they teaching these kids in school.

Send a kid to school to get an education and all they learn how to do is play video games & text to their friends. And then we wonder why kids are getting such low scores on their SAT's.
 
I blame the common core.
The idea behind common core is that no ethnicity or socioeconomic group is at a disadvantage.
So they dumb everyone down and the teachers spend a significant amount of time teaching what will be on the test instead of teaching what the kids need to know to excel in life.
 
Key problems;

1. The schools are not teaching kids to think by instructing the proper way to do Algebra, Geometry, Trig, Calculus. Statistics is not taught to my knowledge. (a great section of mathematics too by the way)

2. History.....Do not know what is being taught here, hopefully WW1 and WW2 are explained properly in depth.

3. Too much focus on sports.......In the real world sports means nothing.

Lots of smart people to fill positions but, employers want to pay the minimum so they go to China and India to hire.
 
The modern day school structure doesn't take the brightest students and push them to their full potential,They are too worried about the children in the middle making it through.Hence the general dumbing down.

I have 2 sons in the public school systems and this is what I have been told.

Vito
 
I agree with that list, but I'd put right at the top of it:

The teachers have a union, and the students aren't in it.

Therefore the top priority of "education" in this country is to provide good jobs. NOT a good education. That's secondary.

So in America we complain about things like classroom size, and building conditions, the need for "technology" as if any of that mattered.

In china, they can have 50, 60 kids in a no-frills classroom without any computers, and SOMEHOW still out-educate us.
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I heard the head of Snap-On tools being interviewed not long ago. He said that he has the problem that the original post brings up. He said he can't get enough qualified workers to work in his factories. He says however,that if he speaks to a room full of parents and asks them what they would say if their child told them that they wanted to be an auto mechanic or work in a high tech factory? He says he's always met with a room full of silence and blank stares. All parents seem to think their little angels should be doctors or lawyers.
 
Yep.
I also believe that no matter how the good the education system is the Orientals on average will do better than American and European kids.
The Japanese, Chinese, Koreans excel in Math and Science and have better test scores then American kids.......I cannot explain it, Maybe the Orientals are inbred with better Math skills, sounds kinda racist, but the proof is in the school work.
 
They have tests in the asian contries, getting into a good university is very competitive, same as europe. Nothing to do with unions, europe's techers are all unionized - government employees. A lot of it is how much the parents are involved, if they challenge the kis enough. The expectation here is that the schools will do everything, the parents are mostly uninvolved. A school has a kid for 5 or 6 hours a day, 180 some days per year. Parents should do more than complain that the school isn't doing it's job.
 
I went into the factory when I was young, but I wouldn't advise a young person to do the same. The work can be hard, lots of long hours, and usually results in a case of bad back and feet. At least we got pensions and healthcare, the younger folks don't have any hope of a pension, or job security. I see factories offering jobs around here at $10 per hour. I was making $8 per hour in 1976, in a non union shop in Detroit. They complain they want workers, but want to pay squat, don't want to train anybody, and throw you out when you get old. Who wants that for their kid?
 
well china's teachers are certainly "unionized" too!

In china (and europe) the level of education IS factored into "teacher union" decisions, that union is more integral to the government education body as a whole.

In the US - the teacher's union is very much a separate entity whose interests have little to do with the student's interests.

Don't get me wrong - Unions by themselves are not a bad thing. But putting teacher's rights over students rights is bound to lead to inferior education.

Basing pay on tenure instead of performance is a sure fire way to ensure kids don't have the best education they can get.

What do you think happens to a chinese teacher who consistently under-performs? I'll tell you right now their job isn't protected they way they are in the US.

In the US - they have most of the country believing that teaching is the one job in our society where performance can't be ranked or measured!

yet we can all look back to our own education and pick out all the teachers that should have been thrown out.
 
The thing I find ironic about the situation... is that here we have teachers who spend 5-7 years in university obtain an art or science degree, then an education degree, then a masters degree... then they go off to teach and every year our results get WORSE, the more of these people we have in the system. The irony being that the people here who get science degrees and can't get work go to Asia to teach....... These are the people who are uneducated in the eyes of the 'educators' yet they're producing the highest results in the world with the instruction they give.
That fact alone, on the surface of it ought to cause our educators to ask the question about what we're doing wrong... but it doesn't. It causes most of them to come up with yet another novel idea about how they need more technology in the classroom to assist in teaching kids that already have no core skills because they still haven't been taught anything other than having their instructors practice their 'instructional theories' upon them.
The problem with the parents is that they send a bunch of orangutans off to school who have no discipline... and are not prepared to sit and learn anything when they are there.

Rod
 
My youngest is working in a factory making graphite parts that are used in making castings. The parts are inserted in the molds,then sand blasted out after the casting is cooled. They make a lot of stuff that's used in making castings for the petroleum industry. It's the perfect example of a modern day factory that employers can't get help for. Everything is computerized and the guys running them have to set them up. There isn't somebody who comes around after hours to do it for them. The run of parts is usually pretty limited before they set up to make something else. Math and computer skills are a must. It's not a union shop,but they pay what they have to,to get qualified help. Good benefits,company perks,company outings at the company's expense,all kinds of goodies. The boy finds it to be a worthwhile challenge that has a good variety of work.
 
I know a guy who travels to China on business a LOT and was married to a woman over there. She had a son from a previous relationship. He was telling me one time that if the kid ever came home with anything less than a perfect score in any class,he was tutored by his mother until he knew the stuff inside and out. He said the attitude over there is that the top 1% amount to something,the rest are street sweepers. And that's exactly how he put it.
 
I agree with Kennytractor and Wile E. Where I live in a rural area with small towns and 1 and 2A schools, there is way to much focus on the kids playing sports not only by the school, but hudgely by the parents. Parents need to encourage the kids to excell in other areas besides sports. In reality, only about 1 out of 500 high school graduates will go on to play sports at a 4 year college. Only about 1 out of 2500 high school graduates will go on to play sports at a professional level. To only encourage kids to play sports is kinda of sending them down a dead end road. They only going to be able to play sports professionally if they have natural talent, are really really good at it, and have the right phisical quality's. Otherwise, it is just a pipe dream that the parents and their kids have.
 
Are these the same corporations that will pay a graduate enough to eat or pay off his college loan but not both?
 
I agree with most of the opinions expressed.

1. Entirely too much emphasis placed on sports. Check out these college athletes at UNC. Why wasn't this front page news?

Smarts[url]

2. Saw an article today that claimed parents are spending an average of 11 hours a day on their smart phones. No time to raise the kids!

3. An absurd need to have a $500,000 home and a $70,000 suburban to put in the garage. It takes two incomes most of the time and the kids aren't being raised by their parents, but by hired mercenaries. You get what you pay for!

4. A focus on "high order thinking skills" in place of actual drilling and memorizing of materials. Schools forget to spend the time learning the basics and expect kids to think at a high level without first having the basics. I bet those Asian kids are drilling things over and over until they get it right. We have lost focus of that important aspect in many cases. I actually heard a principal say, "Don't worry if they have their multiplication facts memorized, they can always make a number chart."

5. In some cases, yes, poor teachers. No excuses. Some teachers just need to find another profession.

6. The number of kids I am seeing with extreme learning/emotional disabilities caused by drugs and alcohol is heart breaking. They are behind before they even get started.

7. Kids raising kids. You shouldn't be a grandparent at 30.

Among other things......just my two cents.
 
AND you will find offshore kids educated in our North American schools are in the top percentages of their classes and colleges. Work ethic is the key. IMHO
 
this came out weeks ago. Today's paper reported high proportion of Asians being admitted to our universities. Yesterday retired college prof stated only 10% interested in education? Secondary schools are dumbed down by teachers. kids are taught by parents to be entitled, and that they need to hold themselves in high esteem. they will be working for low wages reporting to Asians.
 
"We are getting dumber" - Dick2

No argument from me. I won’t name the president a couple of presidents ago that touted the higher test scores of our students these (those) days, but failed to mention that the scoring standards were lowered to achieve those higher scores…as we dropped in the world rankings back then. Hey, I guess that he opened the doors to what the definition of “is” is, and compared to these days, he was an amateur and light weight when it comes to parsing what the definition of “is” is.

Mark
 
The kids are just learning the plan set forth by the union bo obs at the school. The same ones who vote D, where creative writing is more important than math...
 
Anybody remember being taught by nuns? i remember getting cracked by a ruler for using my fingers to add !! when shes said do it in your head she meant it .
 
(quoted from post at 17:40:09 04/23/14) Anybody remember being taught by nuns? i remember getting cracked by a ruler for using my fingers to add !! when shes said do it in your head she meant it .
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These days the only way you get most parents involved is to try to discipline their perfect little video gamer. That parent will be calling the local TV station and running down to the school to chew out the administration in minutes, so then the teacher has to get a reprimand and promise to never try to discipline a child again.
 
My wife taught mostly K-1 for 35 years. Some parents are not supportive during conferences. One, a DENTIST, told her his son would be ok, cuz "he"ll be tall"!
 
AND in China and Japan the kids have daily chores!!! Sweep the floors, clean the chalk board, take out the trash, and more. They also serve lunch! They push a couple of desk together and serve the other kids in their class room. I went to military high school and was straightened out a "bit". THis contry is lost already. WHy do you think our leaders are so bent on destroying the "second ". When people or our "normal" way of life finnaly snap.... You see what went on out in Nevada when the government as---holes tryed to destroy an honnest farmer and some of the local Malitia showed up. "We are removing our agents because we think they MAY be injured" YA THINK??? This is why that little second is there right behind the first. Thank the power brokers in the government for more than 50 years of DUMB schools so you get three going in to four genereations of stupid locked in votes. WHen a canditate Comes forward with gooood solid plans and ways to even try to fix things the D power people start to howl and things just get worse. Why do HOME schooled kids beat the crap out of the "school of the government" in spelling bees?
O man thas is enough. Jeffcat
 
And the number 1 best answer winner is ------- Stephen Newell hands down!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's exactly why Asian kids eat our kids' lunch when it comes to academics. But hey, that's ok with our parents because they can't beat us in basketball or football. Quit blaming schools when the real problem is we've had it too good too long but that is slowly coming to a close. Stephen gets the blue ribbon.
 
I second that.

Back in the 1980's, I spent 5 years as Buildings and Grounds Supervisor for a mid sized local public school district. I learned real quick the school district was not run by the Administration and School Board. It was run by the local sports booster club.

One time the Voc Ag teacher wanted to take a group of students on a field trip to Husker Harvest Days, a three day agricultural exposition that rivals the Nebraska State Fair. He was turned down because "transportation wouldn't be available".

At the next school board meeting, which I was required to attend, a board member whose son would have gone on the trip had it materialized, asked, "When was the last time we missed an athletic event because transportation wasn't available?"

I said, "Good shot, Jim".
 
This is what happened in my H.S. years ago. Vo-Ag suffering, Math suffering and Science lab suffering. Classes set up in temporary shacks. Meanwhile Football program gets new uniforms and gym equip and trips and only wins one or two games on a good year.
 
Teachers are not allowed to teach, only follow common core or testing programs from the State or Fed. Teachers should be allowed to create or modify their curriculum as necessary to accommodate different abilities of students. They also don't get paid squat in most of the smaller towns.

The other half is that companies are complaining about lack of a qualified grads but they don't want to invest in tech training or pay anything. Lot of jobs around here wanting experienced technicians, CNC, Engineering etc. and pay is very mediocre.
 
Sounds like my old high school which is exactly the same way today. This is a rural farming community, and a few years ago they actually wanted to eliminate the vo ag department, and at the same time build a new gymnasium. RETARDED!! One county over they are closing one school, making them consolidate with a bigger one, and at the same time they are adding on to their county jail making it like 2 or 3 times larger. RETARDED!! I could go on and on about this all night, but it is starting to kinda stray from the OP. Maybe a new thread about sports or bad decisions regarding schools is in order.
 
Yeah. Blood tests, eye tests, liver function tests, A1C tests, and a whole raft of others I can't pass......
 
51 percent of Americans don't believe the big bang theory and 42 percent don't believe in evolution. Education starts at home, and the message a lot of kids are getting from their parents is that science doesn't matter.
 
(quoted from post at 03:43:01 04/24/14) 51 percent of Americans don't believe the big bang theory and 42 percent don't believe in evolution. Education starts at home, and the message a lot of kids are getting from their parents is that science doesn't matter.
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Mark, it would be a lot more accurate to say 51% of Americans have questions beyond the big bang theory, if they think of it at all, and 42 % think there is more to evolution than slime to lizard to monkey to man. To be truly accurate you'd be better off saying most Americans think the big bang theory is a tv show!
 
We are where we are because our society is fat, dumb and lazy. We're on the down side of the curve folks and as long as TV and sports and entertainment are more important than building and improving, as long as doing it the easy way wins out over quality, this is where we're going.
 
Our public schools are crap, and most parents are crappy parents.

But we can't fix the parents. We can only fix the schools.

Fixing the schools (PROPERLY - NOT by just sinking more money into them!!!) would result in a better generation of parents for the next round.

But - unfortunately, we can't fix the schools. Liberals own them, and you can't vote liberals out - they give away too much free stuff.

Stuff an uneducated public really likes.

It's an obvious self-destructive loop we're stuck in, but half of america doesn't even see it, let alone have any desire to make the sacrifices required to fix it.
 
parents need to take control, and teach.
In our modern world there is an electronic crutch for everything.
Especially for math. These devices are made to 'assist' us,
not do it for us.
remember when calculators first came out? Hundreds of dollars and bringing one into a math class would get you suspended.
Now, computers and phones, they are everywhere, built-in.
Me, my son, and now my grandson were forbidden to use a calculator until we could do it on our own.
Then, after that, only to check our own work.
(don't care what teachers had to say about it)
Remember 'flash cards'? I saw so many math flash cards before I even went to school that adding and subtracting got like breathing.
I imagine other cultures still do it that way.

Math is finished here, watch at a store checkout :)
With GPS in cars, and voice recognition
in word processors, map reading and writing will follow if we let it.
 
Here are the problems with yesterday's and today's teachers. Back in the day, if a kid didnt get good grades, it was the KID's fault. Now, if little perfect Jimmy is failing a class, it's the TEACHER'S fault.

There are plenty of excellent teachers out there that put in several hours a day of work/grading/planning on their own time, at home, after they help their own kids with their homework and get them into bed. I know, because I am married to one of those excellent teachers.

It would be interesting to compare the decline of the education system with the divorce rate. Maybe the decline of the typical idea of the American family has as much or more to do with test scores. Teachers aren't babysitters or parents, but too often this is what we expect from them. The other countries that are doing better than us do not include their entire student population in their statistics. If they did, their results would be much worse.

For companies complaining about a lack of a qualified employees, I would encourage them to invest, both time AND talent, in the local Vocational School. How cool would it be to see the best machinist or mechanic from XYZ company teach a class on his profession? Very cool. But, XYZ Company has to be willing to give him some paid time off to teach that class, with the thought that they are investing in their own company's future. It's hard to sell that to their stock holders, I'm sure.
 
As an old shop teacher who started in 1974 I have some experience in what is going on.
A little know fact is that every country but the USA divides students into Vocational and Academic tracks. In this country the attitude is that they are all going to college and gong to graduate. Which is far from the truth. Our Vocational Programs are all but eliminated.
The placement or rankings you see are the Academic students of various countries against our entire population of students. Other countries do not include their Vocational score in the rankings. If they did we would be further up the list.
Staistics can be slanted to show anything you want if they are setup properly.
 
Chevet, you are 100% correct, as a teacher of emotionally disturbed students this statistic always makes me mad. In the USA we have FAPE - Free and Appropriate Education. Student that I teach could care less about school or grade or even behaving. However they are on our national statistics. Other countries wouldn't even mess around with half of the students we educate.
 
There have been lots of interesting replies. Some even touched on the real problem. The problem is uninvolved parents. I'll go farther than that and place the blame on the breakdown of the family, and when families are intact they are generally two income families.
Parents are too busy trying to survive financially, or trying to impress someone with their financial status that they don't take an active role in teaching their kids.

When I was growing up most moms didn't work. When the kids got home from school the moms made sure they did their homework before they went out to play. Dads would check over the homework before the kids went to bed. Parents would meet with teachers and find out what their kids needed help with.
When there was a student that was falling behind teachers would often stay after school and tutor them.
If both parents worked they hired a real baby sitter to watch the kids after school rather than relying on video games.

Youth sports aren't necessarily a bad thing. My kids went to a high school that had excellent athletic programs. The vast majority of the kids that participated in sports at that school were also honor students.
A fair number of athletes from that school were also members of the scholastic bowl team. If you think today's kids are dumb you should attend a high school scholastic bowl event.

The farther we fall behind other countries, the more the federal government will become involved. Their solutions will only compound the problem. People will complain about the kids. The kids aren't the problem. They're only sitting around playing video games because that's what parents expect them to do. At some point parents need to get involved. Help the kids with homework. Demand excellence from their schools. If the schools don't meet expectations elect new board members. If there's no hope for your local school, home school your kids. Oh wait, can't do that. Can't afford to invest that much time in the kids.

Someone mentioned teachers unions. The teachers union in a nearby district made a concerted effort to get retired teachers elected to the school board. They were successful. Since that time the teachers have gotten very favorable contracts. The quality of the education in that district certainly hasn't improved.
 
(quoted from post at 07:56:16 04/24/14) There have been lots of interesting replies. Some even touched on the real problem. The problem is uninvolved parents. I'll go farther than that and place the blame on the breakdown of the family, and when families are intact they are generally two income families.
Parents are too busy trying to survive financially, or trying to impress someone with their financial status that they don't take an active role in teaching their kids.

When I was growing up most moms didn't work. When the kids got home from school the moms made sure they did their homework before they went out to play. Dads would check over the homework before the kids went to bed. Parents would meet with teachers and find out what their kids needed help with.

Pops I'll agree with uninvolved parents but I will go you one further and say that uninvolved parents is due in great part to broken marriages. Parents that are competing against the estranged other parent for the kid's favor won't push things like responsibility, homework, and accountability. I will blame marriage failures on many things but the self esteem movement is the enabler behind many other problems in marriages.
When there was a student that was falling behind teachers would often stay after school and tutor them.
If both parents worked they hired a real baby sitter to watch the kids after school rather than relying on video games.

Youth sports aren't necessarily a bad thing. My kids went to a high school that had excellent athletic programs. The vast majority of the kids that participated in sports at that school were also honor students.
A fair number of athletes from that school were also members of the scholastic bowl team. If you think today's kids are dumb you should attend a high school scholastic bowl event.

The farther we fall behind other countries, the more the federal government will become involved. Their solutions will only compound the problem. People will complain about the kids. The kids aren't the problem. They're only sitting around playing video games because that's what parents expect them to do. At some point parents need to get involved. Help the kids with homework. Demand excellence from their schools. If the schools don't meet expectations elect new board members. If there's no hope for your local school, home school your kids. Oh wait, can't do that. Can't afford to invest that much time in the kids.

Someone mentioned teachers unions. The teachers union in a nearby district made a concerted effort to get retired teachers elected to the school board. They were successful. Since that time the teachers have gotten very favorable contracts. The quality of the education in that district certainly hasn't improved.
Click to expand...
 
(quoted from post at 07:56:16 04/24/14) There have been lots of interesting replies. Some even touched on the real problem. The problem is uninvolved parents. I'll go farther than that and place the blame on the breakdown of the family, and when families are intact they are generally two income families.
Parents are too busy trying to survive financially, or trying to impress someone with their financial status that they don't take an active role in teaching their kids.

When I was growing up most moms didn't work. When the kids got home from school the moms made sure they did their homework before they went out to play. Dads would check over the homework before the kids went to bed. Parents would meet with teachers and find out what their kids needed help with.
When there was a student that was falling behind teachers would often stay after school and tutor them.
If both parents worked they hired a real baby sitter to watch the kids after school rather than relying on video games.

Youth sports aren't necessarily a bad thing. My kids went to a high school that had excellent athletic programs. The vast majority of the kids that participated in sports at that school were also honor students.
A fair number of athletes from that school were also members of the scholastic bowl team. If you think today's kids are dumb you should attend a high school scholastic bowl event.

The farther we fall behind other countries, the more the federal government will become involved. Their solutions will only compound the problem. People will complain about the kids. The kids aren't the problem. They're only sitting around playing video games because that's what parents expect them to do. At some point parents need to get involved. Help the kids with homework. Demand excellence from their schools. If the schools don't meet expectations elect new board members. If there's no hope for your local school, home school your kids. Oh wait, can't do that. Can't afford to invest that much time in the kids.

Someone mentioned teachers unions. The teachers union in a nearby district made a concerted effort to get retired teachers elected to the school board. They were successful. Since that time the teachers have gotten very favorable contracts. The quality of the education in that district certainly hasn't improved.
Click to expand...


I agree with most of your post, but it's larger than that now. My wife IS a teacher, a speech-language therapist actually and while I'm not a college boy, I'm also not illiterate. We sit with our 10 and 12 year old every night and try to help them, both are special needs. What's happened is that we are simply unable to assist them because we don't know how to help with their math. For that matter, the teacher doesn't understand how to help! Common Core does not use any standard that's been taught over the past 40-50 years. And the kids have to show how they got the answer. You can't simply subtract 852 from 1576 like we all did. They just don't do it that way anymore. And they teach the kids to count on their fingers! It's nuts.

I;m not even going to get started, lets just say that even the most involved parent is in a hopeless situation today.
 
I agree with most of your post, but it's larger than that now. My wife IS a teacher, a speech-language therapist actually and while I'm not a college boy, I'm also not illiterate. We sit with our 10 and 12 year old every night and try to help them, both are special needs. What's happened is that we are simply unable to assist them because we don't know how to help with their math. For that matter, the teacher doesn't understand how to help! Common Core does not use any standard that's been taught over the past 40-50 years. And the kids have to show how they got the answer. You can't simply subtract 852 from 1576 like we all did. They just don't do it that way anymore. And they teach the kids to count on their fingers! It's nuts.

I;m not even going to get started, lets just say that even the most involved parent is in a hopeless situation today.
Click to expand...

I remember my parents talking about the younger 2 or 3 of us 5 kids being taught differently than the way they had been taught and differently than even how my older siblings had been taught. Dad talked with teachers and figured out how they were doing things so he could help teach the way the school wanted things done. He often showed us alternative ways as well.

Having to show how they got the answer isn't all bad. It shows that they understand how to do the math, not just rely on electronics to do it for them. At some point they need to let the kids do the math in their heads though. When my youngest son was working on his masters a professor insisted he show his work. Son was not happy as that slowed him down, and let the prof know what he thought about it. Before the final exam he asked if there would be any deductions for not showing his work. Prof said as long as they didn't use electronics there would be no deductions for not showing the work. My son completed the final in under 8 minutes. Prof said that was impressive. The kid said aced it too. Which he did. The prof was stuck in a fifth grade mindset. Too worried that the students didn't know the basics, which is fine if you're a fifth grade teacher but he was teaching grad level students.

Special needs makes things especially tough. My sis was a special needs teacher. The teachers sometimes tailored the program to fit the individual students. Administration doesn't like that as they don't have control, but it can be effective.
 
(quoted from post at 06:52:30 04/25/14)
I agree with most of your post, but it's larger than that now. My wife IS a teacher, a speech-language therapist actually and while I'm not a college boy, I'm also not illiterate. We sit with our 10 and 12 year old every night and try to help them, both are special needs. What's happened is that we are simply unable to assist them because we don't know how to help with their math. For that matter, the teacher doesn't understand how to help! Common Core does not use any standard that's been taught over the past 40-50 years. And the kids have to show how they got the answer. You can't simply subtract 852 from 1576 like we all did. They just don't do it that way anymore. And they teach the kids to count on their fingers! It's nuts.

I;m not even going to get started, lets just say that even the most involved parent is in a hopeless situation today.
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I remember my parents talking about the younger 2 or 3 of us 5 kids being taught differently than the way they had been taught and differently than even how my older siblings had been taught. Dad talked with teachers and figured out how they were doing things so he could help teach the way the school wanted things done. He often showed us alternative ways as well.

Having to show how they got the answer isn't all bad. It shows that they understand how to do the math, not just rely on electronics to do it for them. At some point they need to let the kids do the math in their heads though. When my youngest son was working on his masters a professor insisted he show his work. Son was not happy as that slowed him down, and let the prof know what he thought about it. Before the final exam he asked if there would be any deductions for not showing his work. Prof said as long as they didn't use electronics there would be no deductions for not showing the work. My son completed the final in under 8 minutes. Prof said that was impressive. The kid said aced it too. Which he did. The prof was stuck in a fifth grade mindset. Too worried that the students didn't know the basics, which is fine if you're a fifth grade teacher but he was teaching grad level students.

Special needs makes things especially tough. My sis was a special needs teacher. The teachers sometimes tailored the program to fit the individual students. Administration doesn't like that as they don't have control, but it can be effective.
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Pops, I kind of doubt you ever had a teacher tell you or your folks, "DON'T TRY TO HELP THEM! You'll do more harm than good. I don't understand how to do the math the way they want, I just teach it and struggle along with the kids." That's a verbatim quote as well as I can recall it. That's sad.
 
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