This question has been argued time after time! And i laugh everytime i read comments online about it! How old timer says plow plow plow young farmer says dad still has one in the cornor of the shed im in my 30s and never plowed in my life and dont have a desire to learn! Me personally im 27 live in western pennsylvania in my little kid days dad moldboarded everything all we had then we got a chisel plow did both tried no till kinda worked the first year! Tried notilled on swamp ground that year it was worthless! My dad farms full time! I started my own farming a few years back work a fulltime job till someday have enough acers to support myself I hope! But what we learned is you have ground you can no till in and it works great especially corn after beans! Some ground you gotta plow! It gets hard! I just started renting another piece a guy went in the year before no tilled wall to wall on slopes guessing toward 30 percent or more in some places and thier 3 ft wash outs! My thought is everything has its place and some things work better than others! Thiers no ONE easy simple answer on how to farm every piece of ground and get a good yield! Thier more than one way to skin a cat!
- Thread starter Brian806
- Start date
You've got that right. I plow alfalfa sod under every year when I go back to corn in rotation. Even the big boys around here have learned that lesson. I made the huge mistake of discing some and trying to chisel it last year. If I do that again,and don't do myself in bouncing around trying to get it level,I hope somebody shoots me for it.
Same way going back to alfalfa after corn. The only way to get that ground level is to plow the stalks under so they don't get dragged along when I'm fitting it.
Same way going back to alfalfa after corn. The only way to get that ground level is to plow the stalks under so they don't get dragged along when I'm fitting it.
jennifer408
Well-known Member
what is moldboard ?
Very high % of crop here is no tilled and has been for nearly 30 years on some farms. Heavy clay that will dry out fast when tilled, turns to iron if worked wet. I have no tilled beans into hay and pasture fields with great results. If you were to plow a sod field here it must be done in the fall then for best results work it down to almost "planter ready" before winter, then go at it in the spring with no till drill or planter.
BTW my own bean yields have run from 25-60 bu/ac so I am convinced it will work successfully.
BTW my own bean yields have run from 25-60 bu/ac so I am convinced it will work successfully.
formenwhogrow
Member
Thats the worst way to deal with sod. Soil that has been covered in sod for years has exponentially more soil life than most cropped ground, not to mention the organic matter that exists on top. Why would you want to tear that up and roll it under where it will take months to decompose? Burn it, and no-till your corn in. Try it, you'll be pleased with the results. Always moldboarded sod, for the same reasons RRLund said, until one year the neighbor convinced us to no-till our corn into old alfalfa stands. It made believers out of us. The burnt sod on the soil surface acts as an insulator, protecting the ground from the hot sun, thus making it more resistant to dry weather. It was a drought year and our corn looked and did better than most of the neighbors who all do conventional tillage. Also, I've been told theres less compaction in the sod ground due to all the long alfalfa roots breaking up the pan. Not to mention, you use a heck of a lot less $4 diesel with just a pass going through to spray and one more to plant.
The following year, we no-till beans in, but, we also have been known to chisel and plant oats. The ground chisels beautifully after a season of corn. Now, our mold boards are rarely used, collecting bird sh87 in the shed.
Just my thoughts on the issue....
The following year, we no-till beans in, but, we also have been known to chisel and plant oats. The ground chisels beautifully after a season of corn. Now, our mold boards are rarely used, collecting bird sh87 in the shed.
Just my thoughts on the issue....
fixerupper
Well-known Member
I have been very successful no tilling beans into alfalfa if it is burned down the previous fall. We need a ton of rain to make corn following alfalfa work. Jim
Its shown in this old plow diagram, now as far as the meaning, or where the word was derived from, I would think its a little self explanatory by what it does, I've also heard of a motor grader blade, being called a moldboard, and I assume that to be the half round part of the blade that is not the replaceable cutting edge, performs the same,like the plow, but usually with loose soil. On the plow the cutting edge would be the share. The diagram below shows an old style plow, the moldboard is one piece, unlike the more modern plows, there is a replaceable wear part called a shin, which would be the front section of this one piece, making 2 separate pieces, that part of the moldboard being the leading edge, will wear faster than the rest of the moldboard, so plow manufacturers at some point must have decided to eliminate the one piece moldboard, speculation on my part, but I am sure there is a lot of interesting history behind that word, "moldboard"
There is a new kid on the block:
ZONE TILL
You hook a big ol' ripper tooth 18" into the ground where you intend to plant a row of corn/beans, and some disks and baskets smooth out what you just ripped up. Follow that with the planter.
Zone till is getting real big around here.
ZONE TILL
You hook a big ol' ripper tooth 18" into the ground where you intend to plant a row of corn/beans, and some disks and baskets smooth out what you just ripped up. Follow that with the planter.
Zone till is getting real big around here.
Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
I agree with you Randy. plough my hay fields down for corn silage , then chisel corn stubble for grain.
Notill is great where it works.
Heavy wet clay soils with poor drainage and a deep snow pack and deep frost, doesn't work so well year in and year out.
So we burn more fuel around here, but we rarely ever have a true drought so there is some pluses too. We can get real dry, but not like you on loam or sand.
Strip till, or zone till as someone called it, is promising, but they are still working on ways to make it go in the slimy heavy wet clay. Some day.......
Molboard plowing is very common here still, bigger outfits do more disk ripping which goes deeper and leaves the ground more bare, but kinda one and the same around here.
Dealers have taken on Salford to sell their plows in the past 5 years, very popular these days, 11-12 bottom new plow.
Not for my size operation of course.
Plows used to sell for scrap iron 10 years ago, now they have up ticked quite a bit, a good IHC 720 is worth some money again.
Less tillage is more money in my pocket, -if- I can grow as good or better of a crop.
Paul
Heavy wet clay soils with poor drainage and a deep snow pack and deep frost, doesn't work so well year in and year out.
So we burn more fuel around here, but we rarely ever have a true drought so there is some pluses too. We can get real dry, but not like you on loam or sand.
Strip till, or zone till as someone called it, is promising, but they are still working on ways to make it go in the slimy heavy wet clay. Some day.......
Molboard plowing is very common here still, bigger outfits do more disk ripping which goes deeper and leaves the ground more bare, but kinda one and the same around here.
Dealers have taken on Salford to sell their plows in the past 5 years, very popular these days, 11-12 bottom new plow.
Not for my size operation of course.
Plows used to sell for scrap iron 10 years ago, now they have up ticked quite a bit, a good IHC 720 is worth some money again.
Less tillage is more money in my pocket, -if- I can grow as good or better of a crop.
Paul
Hal/ Eastern WA
Member
I think it depends on where you are and what you are planting. My cousins in NE Montana have done low till farming for more than 25 years with very good success, mostly planting spring wheat. Back in the full till days, it was necessary to do strip farming to retain moisture, but now most of the area farmers plant as much acreage as possible, and get much better crops than they used to. Another problem in their light, sandy soil was wind erosion, but with low till and not doing the summer fallowing they used to, wind erosion and dust have been all but eliminated.
My cousins have a huge plow--I don"t remember how many bottoms it has, but I think it is about 16--that is still on their farm. They used to use it every year, but now say they don"t think it has been in the ground for 20 years or so.
No or low till farming has really helped my cousins get much better profits from their farm. They have to spend more on fertilizer and other chemicals than the old way of farming, but many fewer passes over the ground with machinery cuts down on the cost of fuel, which as we know is many times higher per gallon than when they started farming 40+ years ago.
I also suspect that their area gets more moisture these days than it used to, which is an incredible help to dryland farmers. And there are newer varieties that maybe take less moisture to give more wheat kernals. At any rate, the low till farming they do now gives them much better yields than the old full tillage methods their Dad used.
But maybe in some areas the same no or low till methods would not work nearly as well.
Progress marches on. If there didn"t get to be ways to do things better, easier and cheaper, people would continue to do what had been done earlier. Good luck!
My cousins have a huge plow--I don"t remember how many bottoms it has, but I think it is about 16--that is still on their farm. They used to use it every year, but now say they don"t think it has been in the ground for 20 years or so.
No or low till farming has really helped my cousins get much better profits from their farm. They have to spend more on fertilizer and other chemicals than the old way of farming, but many fewer passes over the ground with machinery cuts down on the cost of fuel, which as we know is many times higher per gallon than when they started farming 40+ years ago.
I also suspect that their area gets more moisture these days than it used to, which is an incredible help to dryland farmers. And there are newer varieties that maybe take less moisture to give more wheat kernals. At any rate, the low till farming they do now gives them much better yields than the old full tillage methods their Dad used.
But maybe in some areas the same no or low till methods would not work nearly as well.
Progress marches on. If there didn"t get to be ways to do things better, easier and cheaper, people would continue to do what had been done earlier. Good luck!
A few years ago a farmer was no tilling his pasture for corn. My mother-in-law was living with us then. They farmed in Perry county PA from 1922 until 1938 and the farm was sold. I was telling her about the no till and she said that will never work. Later that summer she noticed how tall that corn was. They use no till a lot here in MD and I don't think they lose top soil. Some of it is quite hilly. Hal
We do minimum till. I would love to no-till but since we have to keep the other tools regardless it is something I can not swing financially. The biggest drawback on no-till for us is the soil can be extremely heavy in areas. This means in a wet spring (such as this one) the ground can be very slow to dry if not disturbed. With the organic matter level not being exceptional the soil tends to be tight in dry weather inhibiting root penetration. If it comes off wet after planting the tight soil even where drain tile exists does not allow for rapid perking of the water down into the subsoil. The only way I would recommend extensive no-till on heavy ground is on moderate slopping (as opposed to near level) ground where drainage issues are not a major concern.
As far as moldboarding goes I would avoid it but there are exceptions such as planting vegetables as it can be a requirement of the processor.
As far as moldboarding goes I would avoid it but there are exceptions such as planting vegetables as it can be a requirement of the processor.
For those who seem to seek the explanation of the origin of the word "moldboard" I may be able to help. The word "mold" could come from the Danish word "muld" which is used for the fertile topsoil. In fact the first time I learned the word moldboard I was a little surprised that it was so much alike the Danish word for it. Same with the"share". I don't think it is a logic English word to use for a plow part but in Danish we have almost the same word and it means sort of a blade and this makes sense as it the part that literally cuts the soil.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Depends on your soil, location, if frost penetrates the soil and crop type.
My farm was no till/limited till for 3+ decades. After a even a modest rain of 1/2"-3/4" . Water would pond on the clay surface instead of absorbing in.
Crop yield increased and ponds only rarely and briefly now. After moldboard ploughing and using a V-ripper.
Crops can be seen taller and greener on every V-ripper track.
My farm was no till/limited till for 3+ decades. After a even a modest rain of 1/2"-3/4" . Water would pond on the clay surface instead of absorbing in.
Crop yield increased and ponds only rarely and briefly now. After moldboard ploughing and using a V-ripper.
Crops can be seen taller and greener on every V-ripper track.
gordy from Iowa
Member
Don't want to get too far into this, but TILLAGE
destroys organic matter. Percentage of organic matter in the soil is the largest contributor to
soil quality.
destroys organic matter. Percentage of organic matter in the soil is the largest contributor to
soil quality.
todd hamilton
Member
in 1998 our family rented ground that had been in set aside pasture for nearly ten years to a neighbor that taught us all how to no till. Round up ready beans had just come out, he sprayed that ground once, no tilled in the beans and sprayed a couple more times that summer. I ran the combine in those beans near 70 bushel per acre - best stand of beans I ever saw.
T in NE
Well-known Member
- Location
- Cambridge, Nebraska
I wish more guys would park the sweep machines and disks around here. The fields downwind of a full-till field are always beautifully green with the wheat that got scoured off the tilled field over the winter.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
We are in western South Dakota and the crop that does the best around here is winter wheat. We do a minimum tillage and one of our neighbors does no-till. It just so happens that this neighbor's wife is our insurance agent, so she knows what our yields are and she knows what their yields are. Every year, when we report our bushels to her, she comments, "I wish ours were that good." My brothers insurance agent says that he can go back for several years and pick out the no tillers from a tiller by looking at the yields. Almost every time, the tillers have better yields. The worst wind erosion around this area this last winter was from some no-till guys. They had very little winter wheat germinate, so they had nothing to hold the soil. They also had very little growing last summer so there is very little old crop residue. Last summer there was very little winter wheat raised in a 25 mile circle around us because of the extreme drought conditions of the summer of 2012. Just about the only people that raised anything were those who did some tillage. The no-tillers just couldn't get their air seeders to go deep enough to get moisture to bring the crop up last fall. The ONLY wheat we harvested last summer was on ground that had been swept once. That loosened it up enough so we could hit moisture. That ground that we no-tilled was so hard it was just ripping up big chunks.
jennifer408
Well-known Member
"moldboard"
[/quote]
ok, thank you, im learning.
ok, thank you, im learning.
BANDITFARMER
Well-known Member
The ground around me nobody no-tills year after year it just dose not work, This ground stays colder and wetter longer in the spring and you don't dare work it wet. To no-till it well the ground has to be just right, To dry you have a hard time getting it in the ground and to moist the crop brakes its neck coming out of the ground. Now go 5 miles in any direction from me and the ground is total different. No-till is really hit or miss around me so most guys do tillage of some kind like turbo till or the aerator till to dry and warm it. Different grounds no-till works great some ground no-till aint worth a hoot! Bandit
gordy from Iowa
Member
Just make sure that ripper is a no till ripper !! This place is funnier than a crutch.
T in NE
Well-known Member
- Location
- Cambridge, Nebraska
Everyone here uses drills, no air seeders. There's a lot of guys who don't seem to understand residue management, they put the cattle out on stalks in winter and let them eat the ground clean.
The field I'm talking about with the wheat having been blown across the road, hasn't had a crop taken off it in the 3 years I've been here. They ran the sweep across it seems like about a dozen times in 2012. About a half dozen times last summer. Looks like they might get some wheat off it this year, but all the topsoil is in the road ditch.
The field I'm talking about with the wheat having been blown across the road, hasn't had a crop taken off it in the 3 years I've been here. They ran the sweep across it seems like about a dozen times in 2012. About a half dozen times last summer. Looks like they might get some wheat off it this year, but all the topsoil is in the road ditch.
What works in one part of the country may not work in another, or for that matter, what works on one side of a watershed, may not work on the other! Our cold, sour, very heavy clays don't do well unless you moldboard plow it. People have tried no till and it doesn't work. But then, we've seen a lot of 5-6 plow 85-100 hp tractors around here that can only pull 4 or even 3 bottoms. THe ground you're on makes the decisions for you.
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