Okay, don't flame me too bad. Doing rear disc brakes on 05 Chrysler. Through a few unfortunate circumstances, half the rubber boot on the caliper is now missing. Can this caliper run okay for a while? I've seen a few over the years that were torn a little or cracked. Job is my sisters and she doesn't have much money. I think it'll run ok. Any thoughts?
- Thread starter redtom
- Start date
rustred
Well-known Member
that boot is to protect the inner seal from dust,mud and gravel.
only way it will last for a bit is summer driving on dry pavement. other than that its about the same as throwing your air filter away... the engine will run for a bit too and die a slow death.
that's the problem with non qualified personal working on BRAKES , that's a life and death situation. I want to trust the OTHER car also.
only way it will last for a bit is summer driving on dry pavement. other than that its about the same as throwing your air filter away... the engine will run for a bit too and die a slow death.
that's the problem with non qualified personal working on BRAKES , that's a life and death situation. I want to trust the OTHER car also.
Janicholson
Well-known Member
The new boot is not that expensive, Brakes are a life and death issue for her and others. Put the boot on asap. Prudence wins! Jim
redforlife
Well-known Member
I'm assuming the caliper is rebuildable. That boot is just to keep the dirt out and keep things clean. Not a critical eliment, but could eventually cause the caliper to be damaged or un-rebuildable. Wouldn't be to exspensive to buy that boot I wouldn't think. Not to hard to replace it if you are mechanical. Labor is now the biggest factor of cost in repairs in my opinion.
retired farmer
Well-known Member
I wouldn't drive it. You want her to run over somebody and kill them because the brakes didn't work?
rustred
Well-known Member
you darn right it is a critical element! it will cause the caliper to seize. have you ever thought of the vehicle being thrown into oncoming traffic due to uneven wheel braking if you have to stop on a dime? you keep those buggies in the back forty! I have too much experience to just assume things.
john in la
Well-known Member
"25 plus years as a heavy equipment mechanic"
"State licensed and ASE certified"
And you would even consider putting brakes back together without replacing the caliper boot.
Dang I have seen broke before but to chance car brakes for a less than $5 part that is BROKE.
"State licensed and ASE certified"
And you would even consider putting brakes back together without replacing the caliper boot.
Dang I have seen broke before but to chance car brakes for a less than $5 part that is BROKE.
jimg.allentown
Well-known Member
Wow! I see what you mean about the flames. Yikes....
My humble opinion as a mechanic with over 40 years of experience is that it would probably run for a while without problems. As previously stated, the purpose of the boot is to keep the dust and dirt away from the moving section of the piston and seal. It would take a while for enough contamination to get into it to cause problems. The problems it might eventually cause would most likely be a stuck piston that could cause the brake to drag.
To explode a couple of incorrect statements:
1) The boot would very likely NOT be an easy part to get by itself. Nor would a repair/rebuild kit. These days, it is preferred to replace rather than repair. I don't agree, and find this practice wasteful, but that is what the world is coming to.
2) NO, she is NOT going to run over somebody because the brakes don't work. Simply put, the worst case scenario would be for the caliper to get stuck and potentially lock up that one brake on that one wheel. No need for all the drama on that one.
3) Have you checked into the price of a replacement? Many replacement calipers are quite reasonable these days. Especially if this one does NOT have the parking brake as part of the caliper. The trend these days is to have a separate small drum brake built into the inside of the brake disk. That simplifies the rear caliper and makes them a LOT LESS expensive.
Just my thoughts. Good luck, and God Bless.
My humble opinion as a mechanic with over 40 years of experience is that it would probably run for a while without problems. As previously stated, the purpose of the boot is to keep the dust and dirt away from the moving section of the piston and seal. It would take a while for enough contamination to get into it to cause problems. The problems it might eventually cause would most likely be a stuck piston that could cause the brake to drag.
To explode a couple of incorrect statements:
1) The boot would very likely NOT be an easy part to get by itself. Nor would a repair/rebuild kit. These days, it is preferred to replace rather than repair. I don't agree, and find this practice wasteful, but that is what the world is coming to.
2) NO, she is NOT going to run over somebody because the brakes don't work. Simply put, the worst case scenario would be for the caliper to get stuck and potentially lock up that one brake on that one wheel. No need for all the drama on that one.
3) Have you checked into the price of a replacement? Many replacement calipers are quite reasonable these days. Especially if this one does NOT have the parking brake as part of the caliper. The trend these days is to have a separate small drum brake built into the inside of the brake disk. That simplifies the rear caliper and makes them a LOT LESS expensive.
Just my thoughts. Good luck, and God Bless.
pete black
Well-known Member
boy, remind me not to mention that I once put engine oil leak stop in a master cylinder to stop a seeping leak. NOW HOLD ON, just kidding.
To Rustred and some others. You may not be able to buy just the boot or even a rebuild kit for the caliper. I just went through this on my Grand daughter's car. She needed new front brake pads. 2001 Grand AM. When I got the calipers off one of them had a cracked piston boot. Not one of the parts houses within a 30 mile circle could get me the boot or a rebuild kit. I finally just bought a new caliper. That cost $50 rather than the $5-10 that a rebuild kit used to cost.
rustred
Well-known Member
what would you be meaning by your saying?
you want me to have my vehicles inspected?
sorry licensed mechanic and do safety inspections and mine are kept up in top shape. sure funny how some people get pizzed off when the true information is released here.
also not going to risk loosing my license by doing halfazz work in the event it comes to bit my azz. guess you have not done or had safety inspections done , as broken boots DO NOT PASS vehicle SAFETY INSPECTIONS.
you want me to have my vehicles inspected?
sorry licensed mechanic and do safety inspections and mine are kept up in top shape. sure funny how some people get pizzed off when the true information is released here.
also not going to risk loosing my license by doing halfazz work in the event it comes to bit my azz. guess you have not done or had safety inspections done , as broken boots DO NOT PASS vehicle SAFETY INSPECTIONS.
redforlife
Well-known Member
I have rebuilt calipers that had (damaged pistons). The uneveness in the breaks is when breaks are released because one is dragging. As the damaged piston goes out, the damaged part (already out) won't go back in, thus causing break draggage, and not no break. Going back in is the problem, not going out (break pressure applied). A dragging break is noticed upon acceleration or a wheel getting hot, and not when you slam on your breaks to stop on a dime. Slamming on your breaks with extensive pressure, that piston will go out. That break is highly likely to drag afterword though. Which you would no doubt notice on acceleration afterwards. In all the calipers I have ever rebuilt with bad pistons, I have never ever had trouble getting the piston out. Not being able to push them back in was always the problem. Always, a rebuild with new piston rule. Isn't it kind of funny that all of the bad pistons would come out, but none would go in. Basicly your saying they won't come out, which would give you uneven breaking while breaks were being applied. Just not seeing it here. My 2 cents.
Gambles
Well-known Member
I went to auto tech school 30+ years ago and the one thing I clearly remember was the instructor saying that if you work on somebody's brakes and that person has an accident because of shoddy brake work that you better pray the person in the accident died. He went on to say that if they live, they will come back to sue you and the jury will feel a lot of sympathy for somebody in a wheelchair.
With that being said, give your sister a gift and buy her the brake caliper yourself. You didn't say the exact model number, but the complete caliper is relatively cheap on RockAuto (I just used them for a reference) and if you can find the kit it will be cheaper yet.
My $.02 worth.
P.S. In today's society, the surviving family of the dead person will come back and sue you.
With that being said, give your sister a gift and buy her the brake caliper yourself. You didn't say the exact model number, but the complete caliper is relatively cheap on RockAuto (I just used them for a reference) and if you can find the kit it will be cheaper yet.
My $.02 worth.
P.S. In today's society, the surviving family of the dead person will come back and sue you.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
OK, let's walk through the consequences. The seal keeps out dirt, water and (if you're in the Rust Belt) salt. So a caliper with a missing boot WILL get stuck sooner or later.
If the caliper sticks in the applied position, that brake will get hot and start to smoke. Most likely she'll bring it back to you and you'll find yourself replacing the caliper you should have done before. Or if she takes it to a shop, you can be sure they'll point out your shoddy repair to her. Either way you're in for more grief than if you'd just bit the bullet and replaced the caliper.
Now, if that caliper sticks in the released position, she'll lose some braking force. Since it's a rear brake, it will "only" be about 15 to 20 percent of the normal force. Which might make the difference between rear-ending someone in a panic stop rather than stopping a few feet short. But let's suppose a front brake line blows on that clunker: Now she only has about 15 to 20 percent of normal brakes! Fred Flintstone had better brakes than that.
Now this is your sister and you presumably know what's best for her. But if it was my sister, I'd eat the fifty bucks for a new caliper.
If the caliper sticks in the applied position, that brake will get hot and start to smoke. Most likely she'll bring it back to you and you'll find yourself replacing the caliper you should have done before. Or if she takes it to a shop, you can be sure they'll point out your shoddy repair to her. Either way you're in for more grief than if you'd just bit the bullet and replaced the caliper.
Now, if that caliper sticks in the released position, she'll lose some braking force. Since it's a rear brake, it will "only" be about 15 to 20 percent of the normal force. Which might make the difference between rear-ending someone in a panic stop rather than stopping a few feet short. But let's suppose a front brake line blows on that clunker: Now she only has about 15 to 20 percent of normal brakes! Fred Flintstone had better brakes than that.
Now this is your sister and you presumably know what's best for her. But if it was my sister, I'd eat the fifty bucks for a new caliper.
caterpillar guy
Well-known Member
And of course those stupid seals on those old front calipers from the 80'and 90's GM were so good. The caliper could not could not slide on the bolt to equalize. One pad would wear out and not the other. We would cut those out on the first brake job . Then they would work fine and the pads would wear evenly.
Oh did I say I hate disc brakes . And if they are so good why do they have to fall back on an old drum brake for a park brake.
Oh did I say I hate disc brakes . And if they are so good why do they have to fall back on an old drum brake for a park brake.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
>"And of course those stupid seals on those old front calipers from the 80'and 90's GM were so good. The caliper could not could not slide on the bolt to equalize. One pad would wear out and not the other. We would cut those out on the first brake job . Then they would work fine and the pads would wear evenly. Oh did I say I hate disc brakes . And if they are so good why do they have to fall back on an old drum brake for a park brake."
Unbelievable. What does the caliper seal have to do with the pins freezing up? The pins freeze because they rust up, either from not enough lubricant or because water got past the seal on the bolt.
Some vehicles use drums for parking brakes because it's CHEAPER and simpler to make a drum parking brake than to add parking brakes to disks. There are plenty of vehicles with four wheel disk brakes that don't use drums.
Unbelievable. What does the caliper seal have to do with the pins freezing up? The pins freeze because they rust up, either from not enough lubricant or because water got past the seal on the bolt.
Some vehicles use drums for parking brakes because it's CHEAPER and simpler to make a drum parking brake than to add parking brakes to disks. There are plenty of vehicles with four wheel disk brakes that don't use drums.
Michael Soldan
Well-known Member
Most auto recyclers will find you a caliper that is not seized and has a good boot(seal),most guarantee their parts and it couls be a $25 replacement.
Redtom,these guys are trying to be helpful although they don"t always choose their words carefully. Dirt salt and water will eventually take out the caliper function with no boot to protect it. For a week or two until you find a replacement or a boot kit is no big deal,but over months it will be. There are a lot worse things on the road than a torn boot,believe me,we used to have brake jobs come in that would scare you,grooved rotors,siezed calipers,steel on steel pads, leaking cylinders..people would wonder what the noise was! You"ll do whats right and its noble of you to help out your sister,doing it right is important..good luck with the job and don"t let anyone discourage you!
Redtom,these guys are trying to be helpful although they don"t always choose their words carefully. Dirt salt and water will eventually take out the caliper function with no boot to protect it. For a week or two until you find a replacement or a boot kit is no big deal,but over months it will be. There are a lot worse things on the road than a torn boot,believe me,we used to have brake jobs come in that would scare you,grooved rotors,siezed calipers,steel on steel pads, leaking cylinders..people would wonder what the noise was! You"ll do whats right and its noble of you to help out your sister,doing it right is important..good luck with the job and don"t let anyone discourage you!
If it were "MY" car I would run as is knowing that I NEED to fix ASAP. However in your case it's not 'yours' so fix it right. I haven't been in the auto field in many years but do repair my own vehicles. I remember when R&R meant remove and repair for most things but nowadays when I look for repair parts locally they only have the complete replacement parts. I am of the thought that if you should locate the repair parts you still to take time to remove from car to overhaul it completely such as properly hone out the cyliner (you do own all the right tools to do that, right?), make sure bleeder is free (what if it breaks?), replace the cup if worn/pitted, ect, ect... Then you still need to replace it and bleed the brakes.
In todays world I have found it faster and many times less $ to replace the complete caliper since the replacement has already been redone.
She doesn't have much $ so either have her pay you back, or better yet, when's her b-day? Ever hear of a VERY early X-Mas present?
In todays world I have found it faster and many times less $ to replace the complete caliper since the replacement has already been redone.
She doesn't have much $ so either have her pay you back, or better yet, when's her b-day? Ever hear of a VERY early X-Mas present?
I have a personal standard for brakes - always do the job completely, and perfectly.
Too much is at stake.
Sure it'll be fine without a boot for a while - until it's not.
Problem is - you can let something like that go with the best intentions in the world of fixing it "soon", but "soon" tends to turn into "next year" before you know it.
If you're in there now - do it right. If your sister can't afford a few bucks for the part, buy it yourself.
Too much is at stake.
Sure it'll be fine without a boot for a while - until it's not.
Problem is - you can let something like that go with the best intentions in the world of fixing it "soon", but "soon" tends to turn into "next year" before you know it.
If you're in there now - do it right. If your sister can't afford a few bucks for the part, buy it yourself.
Ok, so how would we have known that?
Especially, when you asked a question that a "state licensed and ASE certified" mechanic would already know the answer to deep down in his heart.
You know the correct answer is to fix it right, but you are just looking for someone to tell you what you want to hear.
Really, if you can swing it, please fix the boot or replace the caliper entirely. Either don't tell her, or let her pay it off in installments. All she has to do is cut down her cigarette habit by ONE PACK per week, and she'll have it paid off in a little over a month. That's three less cigarettes a day.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
If this is indeed the case you would have known the answer and would not have had to ask the question.
Change the boot. They're only a couple of bucks. It will save you or someone else from having to replace the caliper soon anyway.
I agree with those that say it won't cause a problem for awhile. But why leave it knowing it will have to be torn into again soon?
I disagree with some of responses about it being dangerous. Could it be? Maybe, maybe not.
There are thousands of race cars, dirt track race cars at that, that don't run boots on the calipers.
Even on street cars when the boot splits, the seal around the piston generally remains intact.
Someone suggested the piston could become stuck in the retracted position because of the split boot. I suppose it could happen but every stuck caliper piston I've ever seen was causing the brakes to drag because it wouldn't retract.
I agree with those that say it won't cause a problem for awhile. But why leave it knowing it will have to be torn into again soon?
I disagree with some of responses about it being dangerous. Could it be? Maybe, maybe not.
There are thousands of race cars, dirt track race cars at that, that don't run boots on the calipers.
Even on street cars when the boot splits, the seal around the piston generally remains intact.
Someone suggested the piston could become stuck in the retracted position because of the split boot. I suppose it could happen but every stuck caliper piston I've ever seen was causing the brakes to drag because it wouldn't retract.
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