Bidding contract question.

OK, I served from 74-96, US Army. I have a lot of first hand user experience with stuff made/built by the lowest bidder.

I know that some of you have had building put up on bids, others work in construction or do contracting.

So other than a company/local/state/fed government saving a little money does the bid system help or hurt that quality of the finished project?

I have stories but I'm just looking for opinions. Would you be able to do better work if you were just hired to do a job, submit bill and get paid or is there any real advantage to the bidding system now in place?

Or maybe they should say "this is what we want and this is our budget". Then you could look at the job and decide if you could do it and make a profit.

I know from what I've dealt with in the past that if I were to put up a new shop or something I would just hire a contractor based on reputation and be willing to spend a little more to get it done right.

Rick

I work exclusively for one commercial contractor now, sub, but paid hourly, so I do not bid anything. Years ago, when I was doing residential bath and kitchen remodels, my baths started at $4000 per fixture-so usually $12,000 for a new bathroom. People would tell me all the time that they knew someone who had had a complete bathroom done for $500! I had just done my own, bartered with a plumber, supposedly got the fixtures at cost, and it still cost me $2000! No idea where some of these numbers come from!

In the past I have worked as a contracting officer on civilian and military contracts.

Probably the worst mistake you can make is accepting a bid based solely on lowest bidder, that almost always will not end well.

The most important thing to bear in mind is getting the best value for the money you spend. Before you decide on a contractor ensure that the contractor has the ability to cover all the specifications and completion dates outlined in the contract.

If you know of a local contractor that has a good reputation in your community then sometimes the can be the best way to go, a good local contractor that has an established reputation will usually be a good choice but just make sure he has the capabilities to perform the work agreed on.

Accepting bids can insure the best value for your dollar but make sure you check out the prospective contractor before signing a contract.

there's still a certain level of quality and safety standards that must be met so i think it just makes pricing a little more competitive much less likely to get gouged they're most likely sealed bids so if you want the job you're gonna have to be competitive with price and work quality or you won't be in business long must also pass inspection i.e.your home bathroom gets remodeled plumbing electrical etc. if you re-do any of these then by law in my area need to pass inspection by county/city inspector

In the public sector there is a reason for it. Lowest bid may not be the best bid. There are pre-qualifications and many other pre-award requirements,that will insure that the contract documents, plans and specifications are adhered to. It's one thing to do pre-construction planning, design, send it out to bid, there needs to be an experienced manager from project inception, pre-construction, contract award, project kick off. project start, substantial completion, and contract close out. Large jobs, require experienced people to manage. I've done well over $500M both public and private in my career, I've seen quite a bit, and contractors can be from the absolute best to the lowest forms of life, as a construction manager its your job to deal with all of it, one of the biggest challenges on the job is problem solving during the actual construction. It boils down to time and money like most things, but depending on how well the contract documents are created, how well the contractors perform and who is managing the project, this will dictate the final outcome. Sure, there are special situations, unforseen things, blowouts in the budget or schedule, but its the mitigation thereof or what is done to recover or minimize this right from the start. The larger the job, the more complicated it can get, also the type of job will dictate the degree of complexity. I could go all day on this if you are talking large dollar complex jobs.

With what you are talking about and what most are familiar with here, the jobs may not be as complex, but we did see a really nice dairy/barn, modern farm, building constructed that was posted here, was it in PA ?That job was more than just a core and shell, it had dairy equipment, and other long lead items that needed to be coordinated, planned so that the equipment was delivered on time, the building is constructed in coordination providing a correct fit. Also important that the M.E.P. is correct, (mechanical, electrical, plumbing) for all equipment is installed, no other conflicts or problems, all of this has to be planned and checked up front by a competent person or the job will suffer, both higher cost and longer duration, which is an owners worst enemy. The principles and practices of large scale construction practices do apply and can be used very effectively on the smallest of jobs, using common sense. Time + money, no farmer has time for a bunch of nonsense, like any owner they need the best job for the money, done on time and that meets the plans and specifications.

The job should be organized the same way as larger scale jobs are, its just smaller, less line items, the philosophy applies and is effective. You need to verify the contractor is competent in all areas of the work, you must check several previous jobs, you need to know they are financially stable, adequately insured you need to know who the superintendent or foreman will be on the job daily, what are their qualifications and experience. These are "boiler plate" requirements, contractor gives you a decent price, but cannot demonstrate the above to satisfy an owner, they should never be allowed on the job or awarded a contract, its that simple, its a recipe for disaster. If you (owner) cannot be there daily, someone else must be to instill upon said contractor, that the job must be done on time within budget, and meet all contract requirements, plans spec's, close out items, timely resolution of changes to the contract, documenting any time and materials if for some reason something needs to be done on T&M and so many other things similar. You or someone has to be there to see what is going on, and make sure that contractor knows and is abundantly clear on the expectation that they meet any and all contract requirements. At the kick off meeting a good superintendent will ring the bell loud and clear, contractors must know that if they deviate from what is expected or required, do not think for one minute your contract won't be terminated, which is undesirable. They need to execute their contract, perform their work knowing what is expected up front, know someone is watching as well is there on site to help them achieve this goal, solving problems. The main objective for them is to get the job, perform the work, meet the contract requirements, get paid and go on to the next job, some just don't get this. Those I do not want on any of my jobs. Talk means nothing in this business, you can award a contract to the best reputable contractor, there's always a chance they could fall flat on their face. Lowest responsive bid may not be the best bid, there could be an omission, error or other problem. On public jobs, there is collusion, bid rigging, and kickbacks to mitigate, where they receive prevailing wages, but don't pay the trades that, all kinds of games they can try to play, and that is why these controls are in place. NYS has, well at least NYS OGS has changed from Lump Sum contracts to another method, recently I have been trying to obtain employment with companies awarded construction management contracts with this agency, being its close to where I live and I have recently seen the changes on how they award contracts. I don't recall all the details, but there is no doubt its done to better protect their interest. I did $250M worth of work with them years ago very successfully. People think all state agencies are a joke, we managed large complex jobs very effectively, some of their key people were very instrumental in the success that was achieved. An owner has to be represented, small or large, you never just let a contractor on the job after award walk away, then expect to get exactly what is required. A manager will stand on the pedestal of the contract documents, enforce the requirements, from start to finish using industry standards or methods to make sure the owner gets what they pay for, it goes a lot deeper than the bid or award, payment, performance bonds, and sometimes default can occur. This is where the bonding company is employed with their contractors to finish a job that a contractor has failed to complete, those get messy real quick. I've done several of them in my career, I kind of specialize in problem jobs. I could go on all day, its all in the planning, pre-qualification, administration of the contract and the daily supervision that gets the job done right, along with the documents being complete before bidding with minimal deficiencies. Bad documents will make for a problem job, bad design too, there is a lot to consider, never be in a rush, plan things early like starting a job early enough in the season so that when the following winter arrives you are inside, the building is closed in etc. Things like that make the job go easier and increase quality. How many of us have seen less than desirable circumstances with contractors, on smaller, farm, residential, light commercial or similar types of jobs. I'll bet every person who participates on this forum can cite good examples of it, its always been a real problem since way back when.

Its 2014, we live in very modern times with all kinds of technology, yet its still a common problem, bad contractors. This keeps people like me busy, so as long as there are poor contractors there will always be a need for top notch project managers, superintendents, foreman and so on, large or small projects, its just how that industry is.

Sure, our company could do a better job if we just
submit a bill and get paid. In fact, there are
some customers who hand us work because they know
that.
But that takes trust that was established over
time.
The bid system is absolutely necessary to a
capitalist system, but as you say, that doesn"t
mean an owner is obligated to accept the lowest
bid at all times.
A lesson local government may never learn.

I used to own a refuse hauling co. Many times both
municipal and private, when they opened bids the
first thing they would do is throw out the high and
low bid. As a bidder that really kept us on the
ball. Kept everyone honest too.

Many factors to getting the right equipment for the right price on a bid.

#1. The person who writes the specifications has to know, or take time to learn, what products will meet the needs and write the bid specifications accordingly. If the bid specs are not exact and complete, the bid will result in getting junk.

#2. The Procurement Code has to be specific and allow the purchasing agent to reject all bids that do not meet the bid specifictations. Ford Motor flew a plane load of lawyers out from Detroit because we rejected their low bid because it didn't meet our specifications. They spent about $25,000 in a local court and lost their lawsuit.

#3. The system has to be free from political influence, which was the case in ADOT. Only one guy tried to work that (he was a friend of the governor); he quickly found out he was out-of-bounds.

When I was selling equipment, I had the most trouble with the Feds. Nobody knew how to write a bid spec; usually the spec was written so that any low bidder could meet or none of the manufacturers could meet. If we bid at all, we'd bid real high with equipment that exceeded the specs - and receive a purchase order as the Feds didn't really care of if it met specs or not, because they didn't understand their own specs. When the buyers don't know what they are doing, that's how can they end up with junk.

The quality of the finished product largely depends on How well the jobsite inspector does his job.
Government contracts can be awarded to any of the first three lowest bidders (based on past performance) with out justification. But you must be pre qualified.

As a former director of a state university purchasing dept.. I can say that competative bidding is effective. But there are times when the lowest bid may not be the best route. Every bid request form we used had a statement that we reserved the right to reject any and all bids. If I rejected a bid, I had better have a good reason for a rejection and have strong backup for my decision. If you want to keep the auditors, media, and politicians off your back a good reason for the rejection had better be well reasoned and recorded. I remember not going with the lowest bidder on buying video production tape (for the TV station). The guys at the station had actual demonstrations of what was called dropout(black spots on the tv screen)from the two lowest bidders. The bids were from three of the largest manulfacturers of this kind of tape. This was a case where we went with the highest bidder. Another time I was requested to purchase a case of Trogen condoms. No other brand would be approved. Now that is another story. And the users didn't invite me to the party!

having written bid specs and plans for a county for 32 years i would have to say that a low bidder generally tries to take short cuts to make a profit.
The onsite inspector always has more of a job to get the job done right.
When we can have a job done from our eligible list of vendors we can weed out the bad ones and give the work to better ones.

The fun starts when the spec writer has no idea what the job will take, or how long it will take. I have a bid on a small job now, they want 1/2 rebar on 8inch centers in the concrete. The hole will be 48"X48", they think it needs to be 10" deep, I will bet it is 4"deep now. I have done two of these jobs so I have a pretty good idea what it will cost. It would be a lot cheaper to hire it buy the hour.

We give the same high quality materials, as well as workmanship, no matter where we work. When bidding government work, even low bidder gets prevailing wage. That alone should be incentive enough to give quality everything. Too bad there's people out there who actually think they're worth more.

I usually get quotes form several different people/contractors for any buildings I have had done. I then take the two bids I think are the best. I do not mean "cheapest" and then have go over them with a fine tooth comb so to speak. I then chose which one I feel is the better of the two.

I usually tell them that the original bid is a guide but to not blindly go by it. If they find out something different as they go along notify me and we can make a decision at that time if we think there should be a change.

The current system of "lowest" bidder for most Government work is not the best way for thing to be done. You need the "best" bid and that many times is not the "lowest" one.

A good example of this is our lovely state,
Illinois. Purchased a JCB backhoe a few years ago.
The hyd pump is to small to do 2 or 3 functions at
one time even running wide open.

OK there are several things I was thinking about that made me ask about this.

US Army housing completed in 78. Many of the Appt's had sheet rock fall off the walls because they were only secured with 4-6 screws total.

US Army housing completed in 95. one, right after it was issued had a bath tub fall through the floor because of missing floor joist. No one was injured. Guys wife decided to take a bath after the husband and kids had left for school/work. She decided to get a cup of coffee to drink in the tub while it was filling.

US Army issue combat boots from the early 70's until some time in the 90's. Poor quality, poor durability. Problems ranged from lack of arch support to cracking leather. Most soldier opted to buy other boots that were authorized for wear out of their own pockets.

Tools issued to vehicles were cheap and prone to breakage until the very late 80's.

There were a lot of other things. I'm just wondering if the bidding process leads to this type of thing.

Rick

With the housing, lack of supervision, at each stage of the job, someone needs to inspect the work, approve acceptable work on the monthly payment requisition, and deduct anything not acceptable or incomplete. You have their money, its your only leverage with a contractor. Its typical to withhold 10% or a bit more off each requisition until such time the job is substantially complete, all work accepted, all punchlist items complete and or all O&M data, attic stock or other specified close out items are provided at the end of the job. That amounts to 10% of the contract value and it is a significant amount to a contractor.

A structural failure due to an omission of a component such as a joist is incompetent/gross negligence. I cannot imagine the claims involved when this happens. I'm sure on the architecturals, wall section details by type of wall and in the specifications there was fastening criteria, contractor omitted fasteners and violated the specs thinking they could get away with it, huge claim potential there, defective work.

I remember Pizzagalli Construction of VT, getting into some serious problems at Ft Bragg, see attached link, that was only part of it, whole list of crap that happens with government contracts, too much to read through but its in their, ENR did more than one article on it. I also remember on one of these projects, domestic water supply piping became energized, causing a fatality, old jobs, but the screw ups are prolific and always stand out in memory. See page 29 on the 2nd link


I thought with manufacturing, the government has rigid specifications, maybe it was poor design, or inferior materials, they always had high quality items in the past. I remember the boots with Goodrich soles, did several 16 mile road marches in those, seemed durable, but would not have been my first choice, having worn other boots. I do remember the large blisters and you had best keep some mole skin in your ruck sack if you wore those and went those distances. That was some miserable crap when you could not get a good fit or what the heck caused blisters, no other boot/shoe I could remember caused that to happen.
Pizzagalli

DODIG

Billy in the mid 80's I was a tank commander in Germany. Some guy in HQDA came up with an Army wide combat load plan and it came down as a have to do thing. Myself and two other NCO's saw that the plan was flawed. In the first place it had the ramming staff for cleaning the main gun in one storage box and the bell rammer and bore brush in another. We knew that we were coming up with and alert/ammo upload exercise. That meant that we would roll to an assembly area and they would bring small arms and demo/mine to us. We also had a pretty good BN CMD. So we decided that we would load one tank as per load plan and knew the BC would come around. Well we got called out very early one morning and it happened. When the BC came around to our company in the assembly area that morning we showed him the results of this DA plan. Didn't even come close to working. We couldn't even close the storage box lids which would have prevented us from moving the turret. The guy who came up with the plan did so at his desk. He read that box A had so many CF of storage and box B....ECT. The M1 tanks made it worse. The storage boxes were a double taper.

OK I've read the specs on the now famous Army Claw hammer. That 419 dollar one. There were 28 pages of specs. The company was supposed to measure each handle before it was attached to the head but only after each head was measured and weighed. The standards were so ridged that it would indeed bring the cost of the hammer up that high if each hammer were tested as specified. The army completely ignored progress made in the manufacturing process.

The combat boots issued to guys with little feet (size 13 and smaller) were the new ones in 74. I had man sized feet and got the old style. I really felt sorry for the guys with the new boots. In basic they had blisters that had to be seen to believe. I never got a blister. My boots would take a shine fast. They worked for hours and did push ups the next morning because my boots looked so much better. Drill SGT would put them in the "front leaning rest" and make me stand with the toes of my boots in front of their eyes and make them do push ups over the toes of my boots. Did not win me any friends in basic. Was just the difference in the quality of the leather. A year later I was still wearing my issue boots. The guys I went through basic with were on their 2nd boots and most had gone to the optional ones. I was young and married. When I did need new boots I bought the new issue boots because of the price. I wore them for a couple of years, did PT in them. I'm paying for that even today. The issue boots today are of much higher quality. It took a lot of Army and VA doctors to make the Army realize that the boots were that important. By the early 80's we did PT in (our own money spent) running shoe. For me it was a day late. Then they let us start wearing sweats and short and tees. At first units would say this is this or that color. Then some guy/guys/gal/gals complained to his/her representative because at each new unit you were buying different color stuff that it wasn't right and the Army cam up with a PT uniform. Army wide.

No the Army was far from perfect. Even today the guys actually fighting don't care much for the M16/M4 platform weapon. But 70% of the troops love it because they are support and it's lite and easy to carry. So when it's in the news that the combat soldier doesn't like the M16/M4 variants the generals (who ain't in the dangerous spots) point out that 70% of the troops like it. No the Army would get a D- on taking care of it's own.

But back to topic. Lets say I want to build a 30x45 shop with a 20 Ft overhead door, 14 Ft sidewalls, insulated and heated. Would I be better off letting bids or would I be better off hiring an known contractor and saying this is what I want, this is what I can spend, can you do it?

Rick

I'm a contractor. Nearly all of my work is done under contract. When I bid a job, I spell out as best I can exactly what the cost will be. Sometimes the client hasn't made fixture choices so I include an allowance for those items. The way the allowance works is like this...if I allow $1200 for a counter top and the actual cost of the top is $1000, the client gets a $200 credit off the contract price. Conversely, if they pick out a top that costs $1400 they'll see an extra $200 added to the final bill. The key to using allowances in bids is to use realistic allowances. I know a contractor that that low balls their allowances. That looks good to the people that are strictly price shoppers until they find out they can't get anything at the prices allowed. The way that contractor is using allowances is basically a version of bait and switch.

I want my bids to reflect the actual cost to my clients as possible. If the client wants to add or change something, the final price will be adjusted accordingly. It's a rare occasion for me to take a time and material job. I've seen contractors abuse that system and the problems it causes with their customers. I don't want my clients to have any surprises!

I did a lot of work for the military back in the 1980's. When you bid on a government project, especially military, there are very stringent specs that have to be met. If someone does shoddy work on government projects it's because the inspectors didn't do their job.

I've heard various theories over the years. Some say get multiple bids and go with the cheapest. That can be very short sighted. Especially in residential work where the client usually doesn't have rigid specs. Several years ago I was asked to bid on a room addition. I met with the home owner and took notes so I could prepare a bid. As I was getting ready to leave he let it be known that he was getting other bids. No problem. Then he went on and listed the EIGHT contractors he had already gotten bids from. I mentioned that getting eight bids was quite uncommon. He said he was getting even more bids in hopes of getting a cheaper price. I told him I wasn't interested in bidding on his project. He didn't understand. I tried to explain that the only way I would come in with a lower bid is if I were to forget something or make a mistake when figuring the job, and I just as well stay at home and not lose money.
The only other way to bid the job lower would be to figure on cutting corners and I don't do that.

Some say get three bids and throw out the high and low. That's an incredibly stupid way of doing things!
You should ALWAYS go with the BEST bid. Say you get three bids. What if none of them are good bids? What if they are all good bids? The customer needs to weed out the bad bids. Toss out the ones that are vague, or the ones where the contractor bid something other than what the customer specified. Customers need to check the reputation of the contractor. Do they start projects on time? Do they finish projects in the specified time? Are they insured? Are they licensed? Are they bonded? Will they get a building permit, or will they dodge the building department hoping to sneak something by that doesn't meet code? How long has the contractor been in business? Will the contractor still be around in the future to remedy warranty issues?

I did a bathroom remodel for an elderly lady. She knew up front exactly what it was going to cost. During the course of the project she mentioned a couple of times that she had her other bathroom remodeled a few years prior at less than half the cost of the one I was doing. I went and looked at it. The workmanship was horrible. I asked the client who had done it. She told me. Then I asked why she didn't have him do the project I was doing. She said he was no longer in business, then paused. Then she said, I get it now. Then she said, your work sure is nice. The next year I did two more projects for her.
We built a room addition for my parent's neighbor. Many years later I was asked to bid on another project. A few days after submitting my bid I got a call from the customer. She had several questions. I answered them and she said she'd get back to me. Less than 10 minutes later she called back to say I had the job. Turns out she had gotten another bid that was half the price of mine. She called her brother over who worked in construction. He read both proposals and made a list of questions for her to ask both contractors. It turns out the other guy was going to skimp on the thickness of the concrete, plus he had fudged the dimensions a bit to further save on material. I've since done two more major projects for that client.

To answer the OP's question....contract price or time and material makes no difference in the quality of my work. I can't say that for everyone though.

A friend recently had a pole barn put up. He had gotten bids from 4 contractors. He specified the building size, door and window sizes, etc. The 4 contractors each bid different size buildings, different window and door sizes....
Three of them didn't want to bid the same specs as the customer wanted. They didn't want the customer to be able to compare bids head to head. The guy hired the one contractor that bid exactly what he wanted. That guy was also the highest priced.
IMO he got the best value.

There will always be those home owners that are price shoppers. Many don't understand the difference between price and value.

As for your shop project....
Get bids, including one from the known good contractor. Check to make sure they bid what you spec'd. Ask starting date and completion date (with allowance for inclement weather.
I would not do business with someone that won't give me a firm price. There are certain exceptions like underground obstructions, amount of fill,change orders, etc, but there's no reason a good contractor can't give you a firm price.

That loading plan, and what you describe is a good example of a mis-coordination. The same thing can and does happen when constructing buildings. There is such a thing as common sense here, I've never figured out why in heck people don't use it when its needed. If that task were assigned to me, sure I could design it, draft it up, but there's no way I'm, implementing it or approving it until I've had the chance to "mock" it up on that tank and go through the operational part of it, note any problems, make necessary corrections, repeat, until its right. I've always said that the best information you'll find on things like this is from the end user. If its a means and methods issue, construct-ability situation, best information comes from the field personnel, in your case that would be NCO's. Even today with 3d modeling, all the technology, resources, still happens. One of the challenges with large and complex buildings was coordinating all the plans, architectural, structural, M.E.P. and all the approved shop drawings from things being fabricated off site that need to fit. There will always be problems, but it can be minimized, more so today.

If that was in fact the problem when the government purchases items like hammers, toilet seats, we've all heard about things like that, makes no sense, have to add in some corruption somewhere along the line too. It should be as simple as the specification writer, calling for dimensions, type of material, finish, whatever the criteria, need X amount of these, send it to bid, review bids and award. Means and methods should be left to the manufacturer that has to meet the specifications.

Its really surprising that considering what an infantryman, (or gender correct "person") does on their feet, careful consideration was not given when designing the footwear, its just as important as your weapon. I think I still have a pair of the Goodrich sole boots, the shock and impact transferred, well on hard surfaces, no give, they look nice in drill and ceremony, but for PT, I guess we just did not have the materials developed. I remember I saw on that show "Pitchmen" the one guy who pitched Oxyclean, now deceased, he and his partner had a product come in, some crazy cushion, rubbery type material, they wrapped up one of their arms in it and ran a vehicle over it. I think it was Billy Mays, he called it off, backed out of doing this himself, someone else did it, they literally ran a vehicle over his arm. No problem, talk about a cushion material, the inventor discovered it by accident. Perfect if you work on concrete decks all day! I really liked that show, because of the people that brought in products I used to think it was a bunch of low quality crap, but a fair amount of it was not, like that material, that was something, thinking of how shoes and ones feet can be so uncomfortable at times.

I remember the M16 A1's, was not a big fan after experiencing the use of them, just another thing you have to work around so it did not let you down. I knew then, someday I'd own the civilian version of the M14, surprisingly variants of it are still in use today, upgraded, modernized versions. I'm sure those who need and have them or similar are thankful. Its impressive whats out there today, too many variables but you would hope the people in uniform today benefit from all these improvements, and whats available now, so much advancement its hard to take it all in and remember.

Planning a building like you describe is not all that difficult, the more you do up front as the owner and is reflected in the design, the better the job will turn out. Complete designs get you firm prices on what you want, leave holes in that design, the cost goes up when its discovered in the field, it also causes field related problems, all starts with complete documents.

Look at the site, note problems, rock, water, drainage, check elevations, make sure its conducive to what you want to do, no problems exist, and that you can prepare it within reasonable cost for the building you want to erect. You could take any of the reputable building manufacturers out there today, that cater to ag or similar style buildings, take a common style building and systematically mark up a generic plan with your needs or requirements.

You could also specify same covering all the criteria, kind of writing your own specifications, most importantly get it all out on the table and make sure everything you want and or need is listed. Don't rush it, do that, then walk away, leave some time in between, give it some thought, see if anything else needs to be added or even deleted, it works both ways. The point of this is, ideally you want a complete design, BEFORE going to bid. These outfits will or should reflect all of that when they respond with a set of plans, that you need to review. In this case you'll likely be dealing with a building manufacturer who has the capability of providing design services, engineer stamped plans, meeting code or what ever is required. So you have to pay attention to what they provide in the plans, spec's, then mark those up accordingly, approve as noted if you change things, then know its complete, satisfactory. This should result in a firm price, good for a specified period of time, as escalation of material prices happens quickly today, so it may go up if you wait. With this method, you must shop it, by taking bids, same criteria, design for each, then review each, you'll have to arrive at a decision based on what you see. When you go to bid, the numbers will reflect or should, what you want, you get a real lowball bid, theres a problem somewhere, get a real high bid, same thing, contractors will throw crazy numbers at you to see if you will bite, because sometimes people will do just that. Said contractor may have just made excessive profit off you. Multiple bids should reflect a certain balance, they should be within proximity of each other, not way high or way low, all based on a complete design that the owner is satisfied with. Its paramount that you take the initiative to make sure that design is what you want, think of future uses, needs, plan in anything important if you can't afford it now, but can later whereas all you have to do is make sure the concrete or structure is built to accommodate it. If you have to come back later it will cost you a lot more then. Pay now or pay a lot more later on.

If you go the traditional route, straight up contractors, who just build, then you have to perform the same function with a designer you hire, create plans and specifications that meet your needs, then take those documents and send it to bid, to reputable contractors, review said bids and make a decision. This is not a complicated type of building, relatively simple and easy to design.

NEVER...(my preference, others may disagree) tell any contractor your budget, its bad practice. You take a completed design in hand, one that you approve of, am satisfied with 100% and have them bid on it, the plans and specifications for what you want to buy here. Review the prices, scope(s) of work and make a decision. You obviously have to make sure what you want is within reason of what you can spend, this is a simple building, so it won't be difficult figure that out well in advance. Now if you get 5 prices that are out of your budget range, you either need to be able to increase your budget or you will have to do some, "value engineering" to reduce the cost. Eliminate something, reduce size or anything similar. If that can't be done, then there is a problem to resolve. I do not believe in telling any contractor what I have to spend, once you do that, that is what you will likely spend because they know you have it. I'd rather keep them in the dark about it, you tell me what its going to cost via the bid process, based on the documents provided. At that point, prior to award you can negotiate a little, you don't want to hack off so much that they will leave or cut corners, they still need to make a fair profit. Usually there will be a little room. This is a small job, so the numbers are small, but anything you can negotiate less will stay in your pocket. Or given that you sent it to bid, you may come in within your budget,they don;t get whats left over because they do not know about it, they base their bid on real prices, your budget and actual cost could be 2 very different numbers, you realize the savings not them. Tell them your budget number, its very likely that is what you will pay, you don't know what their labor, material, profit and overhead costs are, so why should they know what you have to spend. You could in the contract, specify that they provide unit prices, for the purpose if a change to the contract is needed. Say something needs to be added or something unforseen arises, it happens all the time. In that case you negotiate a change order based on agreed unit prices stated in the contract, not some arbitrary high number thrown at you. There are "change order" contractors out there who just love gouging customers when that happens. Contractor is already on the job, the necessary change creates a bind, it may stop progress, the customer ends up giving in, and its often times costly and unfair. I have no problem increasing a contract if the situation calls for it and the price is fair.

A contractor will do the job if its an overall fair price for the entire project. You can't beat them up too much up front, and rightfully so fair is fair. The best way to get that price is to have them competitively bid it, they know they cannot add in a lot of fluff to their benefit. NEVER tell them who they are bidding against. Bad practice. Bids are based on the same criteria, documents etc. so there should be no issue there. Contractors may know each other locally, collude on a bid, kick back to one another, an owner just can't take that chance. Instead of paying a fair price that a contractor will make a reasonable profit from, say 20% or maybe 25%, its possible they could make something ridiculous like 75%or 100%. Some do just that, by throwing a number out there, people do bite, more so if they have money or are just not savvy enough to know better. Contractors can and will, (not all) prey heavily on that type of customer, no farmer can afford excess or waste, so anything that is a cost savings or should be, is better in your pocket than theirs. I am by no means trashing contractors, some are absolutely the best, fair prices, great work, others don't have a conscience and will take that extra cash from you because they know they can, and that is where industry people like myself can represent an owner to make sure things are fair on both sides.

Another mistake I see is with payment terms. Use a percentage of completion method, agreed up front.Pay only for accepted work in place, small job, the duration is not very long, but this method works fine small or large. Never front any money to any contractor for any reason, if you have to do that, the contractor is incompetent or financially unstable. One compromise is purchase of materials. This is more prevalent with smaller, residential, light commercial, say Ag or similar style buildings. I've done it, it can be helpful, but a reputable contractor won't need to do it. You can agree to pay for materials up front, catch is they have to be delivered and they have to be acceptable materials, complete, and correlate 100% with the bill of materials. This can be helpful to contractor just starting out, but use care when doing so. I've used the incentive that there will be no material mark up, well unless there is excess handling where extra labor is needed. I've placed orders for what was needed, and had the customer pay direct, I have done that with rental equipment too, goes on their credit card, machine is delivered, and all they pay is my fair labor rate, it worked very well for me and I made decent money doing so, without having the liability of owning said equipment. I used to love doing this with small excavation jobs, mostly surface work, landscaping, grading, clearing or similar, in/out, you get paid on time and there is a cost savings for both parties, no overhead on the equipment charged to them and I do not have to own whatever it is, just pay as you go. Work slows down, I have no payment, maintenance or any depreciation, simple philosophy, but works. The rental place I used to deal with is no longer in business, I did a lot of work with them, and enjoyed all the jobs I did, for once work was more fun than not.

Schedule is important too, any reputable contractor wants to complete the job as efficiently and as quickly as can be done, weather and other conditions can change things, you can address all of that in the contract. The thing that is most concerning is the CRITICAL PATH. This is the longest path of activities it takes to start and finish the job, so long lead items such as pertinent equipment, or building materials that can change or increase the duration of that path need to be identified up front. Heres an example, you have a nice building, specified some fancy windows, job is scheduled to be closed in before winter, finish trades need to work in a heated building, if those windows are not delivered on time it impacts the schedule, creates out of sequence and extra work to say temporarily close the openings off, but could easily impact completion of other work activities, say for example interior finish adjoins to the windows, that is stopped until they are in place, so its out of sequence, extra work, additional cost, and delays or impacts the finish date. Probably a poor example, but should illustrate the point of how important up front planning is to the completion date, as well as daily monitoring to verify progress meets what is called for on the schedule, doing that will help recover a schedule, vs letting it go and then you are against a wall. A contrators bid has to reflect an acceptable schedule, they get in trouble and have to utilize overtime to get back on track, the owner should not pay any extra for that, its just best that the bid reflects that and this is monitored so small problems are resolved immediately. You miss taking delivery of a critical path item, one that had a long lead time to get, but is ordered too late you may have a real problem on your hand. Its highly important before a shovel goes in the ground that these items are identified and the schedule is not impacted, order early things work out nicely, leave out an item or not consider the actual lead time from placement of order to delivery in that schedule, it will cost an owner every time.

I've been waaaay.... long winded with all this, hopefully its some help to anyone brave enough to read this much LOL !!!!