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Small round bales

J

John Fulton

Member
Does anyone remember the small (40-50 #) round balers? I think they were wire-tied. What was the make of those balers? I vaguely remember them from the 1950"s. Pain in the a** to handle, had to use hand forks.
 
My uncle had a big old gambrel roof barn, and filled it to the peak with small rounds- the pile collapsed, they all rolled sideways, and the barn came crashing down on top of them.

And thus ended uncle's farming career. My dad made hay on the place the next year, and by the year after, uncle had sold the majority of the acreage to a neighbor.
 
Dad had one for a year. The grass first cutting bales didn't unroll worth a darned. He had to chop them apart with an ax. He said he put an oil furnace in so he didn't have to spilt wood,he wasn't going to have to cut up bales with an ax.
 
Yep have two in the fence row here. Haven't seen them used since I was a little kid. What I can remember of my dad using them aren't pleasant memories.
 
They were string tied, and I thought they were easy to handle, except the ones that looked like funnels, cause the hay wasn't raked right. Dad had one, and I learned real fast just how to rake for him. I worked for a neighbor that hauled them on trucks, had a porch out over the cab, could put 250 on a load.. He had a loader that hooked to the front bumper that put them right on the bed of the truck, or if it was broken, we had to throw them on by hand. That was back in the early 60's, got 2 cents a bale for handling them.
 
Back in the early 60s we had guy do custom baling for us and he had an AC round baler and pulled it with a AC - D15. The Allis Chalmers had the power director clutch which they designed for the round baler. If I am not mistaken the power director was first used on the WD-45.
 
I'd sure like to get the canopy off one, to make a sun roof for my Kubota. Same color orange, and pretty zooty looking. I'd even leave the Rotobaler decal on the side.
 
A/C Rotobaler was probably what your thinking of. They made a round bale about the same size as the small square bales. They where twine tie and yes a pain to pick up. Had one years ago and I learned to hate the thing
 
couple of guys here really liked them but they never put a string on them just dropped them in the field and then turned cows to them field by field as they ate then down, not my way of doing it but it seemed to work well for them
cnt
 
The roto baler was obviously a love hate relationship with people. I have a couple and make bale for mostly "fun" but only make a hundred or so at a time. This winter I have noticed one fact about them. I have been feed roto bales to calves in one part of the barn and squares to another. Were loosing a fair amount more hay through the squares because the calves are dragging more hay out of the feeder versus the rotobales. Also there are always stems leftover from the squares and the rotobales are being eaten to the last bit. The bales Im feeding came from the same crop in the same field. The feed quality from the rotobales is 2nd to none. But you still have to pick up the bales in the field. Of course I used to help a neighbor that had a Deere 14T. Every time I drive by that place I think about going into his shed and kicking that dang thing one more time! If it wasn't missing a bale it was shearing a pin at any windrow that was of any decent size. Dang I hated that baler.
 

My father in law had one. He was proud of it, and I hated it and wasn't around the bales like he was. He cut hay on my Uncles place, which farm was on the side of a hill. I loaded up the first load with two Nephews, got to the end of the field, turned around and the whole load went off the wagon. Loading them once is bad enough, the second time is a B****.
 
A "hand" clutch, multi plate, running in oil, gave the WD live PTO.
It was then called the "power director" in the D series when it was doubled into a lo-neutral-hi lever.
 
Growing up that was all we and most neighbors had. I guess that's all I was used to, and I hated to help anyone with the squares. I was used to the hooks, and got along fine that way. If The baler gave trouble, I could make it work. I ran a few square balers, John Deere, and New Holland, and when they acted up, I just as well pick up and head home, cause I just couldn't seem to get them corrected.
 
One of my favorite stories about those things was a guy why farmed in strips. He'd plant wide row corn in half the strips,have hay in the others. He'd bale with a roto baler and since they were waterproof,he'd carry the bales off and put them between the corn rows. Come fall when the corn was ripe and the last cutting was up there,he'd turn the cows in to the whole shebang. They'd eat the standing hay,the ears off the corn,then the stalks and the bales. Said he never had to bring the cows up to the barn all winter.
 
(quoted from post at 14:35:18 01/15/14) The roto baler was obviously a love hate relationship with people. I have been feed roto bales to calves in one part of the barn and squares to another. Were loosing a fair amount more hay through the squares because the calves are dragging more hay out of the feeder versus the rotobales. Also there are always stems leftover from the squares and the rotobales are being eaten to the last bit. The bales Im feeding came from the same crop in the same field. The feed quality from the rotobales is 2nd to none.
Click to expand...

If the hay going into a small sq & rd bale is identical then what makes the hay from a small rd baler(roto-baler) better than sq bales????????????? I think it's amazing one would want to stop the tractor for every 40 or 50 #s of hay harvested. How many rolls an hr could one average with an AC roto-baler while stopping so frequently?
 
I heard a story once that allis asked somebody if the could make a larger bale if it would sell .the answer was no talk about missed chance they also made a front unload spreader
 
Thanks Bob i thas been years since I drove a WD45 or a D series tractor. Everything I have is green or red.
 
I still have my dads roto baler stored in the coverall, and in working order. Dad bought it new in about 1948, complete with an Allis B motor mounted on it as it's power plant ,cause his V Case didn't have a live PTO. My dad used his baler till he retired in 1987, and it will still work like a charm. In 1957 he bought a Cockshutt 35 with live PTO , and the B Alis motor was traded off for the PTO shaft and gear box. In the early days, dad told me he did custom baling for .06 cents per bale. Neighbours where glad to get him in because there were few balers around at this time. Bruce
 
Agreed. My BIL had one back in the late 1970s - he bought it for next to nothing and it worked - as apposed to the old IH 45 baler that he fought for years (and lost). Lots of clutch work and a very slow operation when you had more than a few acres. He had his first farm and used that baler for three years before he bought a good JD 336(?) baler to replace it. As he put it he was almost tempted to go back the IH 45 a few times but he left it parked in the fence row then scrapped it - the 336 baler seemed like heaven after running those two.
 
Several small round balers beeing produced here in Europe. Many have an integrated wrapper. Many horse people do not want hay. They only want haylage and the big bales are too big if they only have say 2 horses. They don't need a loader for the small bales either.
 
(quoted from post at 12:54:33 01/15/14) A "hand" clutch, multi plate, running in oil, gave the WD live PTO.
It was then called the "power director" in the D series when it was doubled into a lo-neutral-hi lever.
Click to expand...

Whatever it was the PD was a joke. Would have been OK as just a high low but when they were just being too cheap to go to an IPTO, left a lot to be desired. When JD had a IPTO available in 1948 (model R) and IH in the 50's it's a wonder AC lasted as long as they did. Was really a pain when you had to steer, shift from F to R, keep the PTO running and do something with the hydraulics all at the same time. Lets see, only got 2 hands and can't use my feet like a monkey can......so have to stop, do 2 things and then continue. I can see why the rotobaler failed too.

Rick
 
Rotobaler failed? With 77,200 of them sold from '47-'74? What
mainly held them back, was strike with commie run union local.
As for the IPTO, Ac was an innovator of that, too, although not as
early as some others, they were masters at making new patents,
like Rubber tires,
narrow torque tube,
spin out wheels,
first rear engine cultivating tractor,
power adjust front axles,
first turbocharged production tractor,
And many others I could post, if I had any memory left.

I managed to farm with them for about 35 years, so far, maybe I
have better hand/eye co-ordination!
 
The hay in a round bale is not cut by the plunger the way a square bale is. There are more sharp edges in the hay in a square bale. I have never used an Allis Chalmers round baler and have absolutely no desire to, but I have noticed the same thing with big round bales and small squares. If you have a cow in a pen and feed her hay taken off a round bale, then switch to a square bale, she will leave her hay for a day until she gets hungry, but when you switch from a square bale to a round bale, she will clean it right up.
 
You weren't stopping, you would slip the power director lever
just enough to slow the feed of hay, 7 seconds to wrap the bale
with twine, kick lever back as you eject the bale, start the next.
Only used brakes on hills, not much slower than square baling.

Main attraction then as now, with round bales is twofold. First,
they are waterproof, baling to beat a rain, and your bales are
undamaged, if they get wet. Second, the round baler, then, as
now, wraps up the entire hay stem, in a circle, whereas the
square baler cuts a percentage of the hay, on each compression
stroke. The additional cut ends in each flake of hay, subtracts
from animal palatability, which would you eat, that which sticks
stems into your nose, or that which you can stick your nose into,
and lap up, with no end stems to slow you down?

I ran a white top baler, for 2-3 seasons, yes they are a trick to
get to know, but I consider them good training, for the Hesston I
use now.

Last season I used it, was a real droughty year, had little or no
hay, so I baled up a neighbor's field of foxtail. I baled the field,
took the ATV with a snowplow, and pushed up groups of 10-15
bales, then loaded into dump truck, Still got a picture of that 73
ford loaded up with an almost unbelievable stack of 'em!
 
Really? It never happened? What, were you his neighbor, or something? Try not to post on subjects you know nothing about. You'll look less foolish that way.
 
I never operated an AC Rotobaler, but I picked up thousands of the bales. I kinda liked them. Didn't need anybody on the wagon, they pretty well stacked themselves. There's a small hollow spot in the center of the ends to stuff your fist in, then a hay hook in the other hand, and you're good to go.
 
(quoted from post at 16:24:40 01/15/14) Rotobaler failed? With 77,200 of them sold from '47-'74? What
mainly held them back, was strike with commie run union local.
As for the IPTO, Ac was an innovator of that, too, although not as
early as some others, they were masters at making new patents,
like Rubber tires,
narrow torque tube,
spin out wheels,
first rear engine cultivating tractor,
power adjust front axles,
first turbocharged production tractor,
And many others I could post, if I had any memory left.

I managed to farm with them for about 35 years, so far, maybe I
have better hand/eye co-ordination!
Click to expand...


Lets see, just how many balers were sold total? And they only managed to sell just over 77 thousand over 27 years. That's just over 2800 a year. And in 1960 there were 3.7 million farms? And they couldn't sell 100K of them over 27 years? That is not a sign of success. So less than 1% thought the Roto Baler was good? New Holland made the 68 series baler for 2 years, 55-57 and production ran from 500 to 750 a DAY. Even figuring a 4 day work week at 500 a day, that works out to 208,000 balers in 2 years. Gee, guess the Roto Balers just couldn't compete/wasn't that popular.

Innovation means that you come up with something new. IPTO in 1948 was new. IPTO with an inline engine in the 50's was new. IPTO in the 70's wasn't new or innovative by any means.

While the G was an interesting design it was hardly a great achievement or else everyone would have copied it as soon as the patents expired. Just how many copies did JD, IH or Ford make? Such a great design that they built a whopping 29,976 over 7 years and then discontinued it?

On the power adjust I can't find anything after a quick search of the net as to who came up with them.

Both the first diesel farm tractor and first turbo diesel farm tractor goes to the same company. Caterpillar. Yes, steel tracked diesel and turbo diesel AG tractors were first offered in the US by Cat. And turbos when first used by Cat, IH and AC were not a great invention but were a cheap way to squeeze more HP out of the same old design engine without the expense of a completely new and innovative idea. It breathed new life into them so to speak.

Better hand to eye coordination? I rather doubt it. More patients, most likely. I really hated stopping with the PD to keep the PTO running, and staying there long enough to allow the implement to clear or for the hydraulics while waiting to go again. Wasted time is what it did. My 1206 IH is more productive than the 190XT was doing the same task with the same implement. I really thought that the 190XT was the best looking tractor ever made, until I owned one. Now they don't even draw a glance from me.

Rick
 
OT, I don't have too much more time tonite for rebuttal, But as I
said, the D-19 always will be the first production wheel tractor,
with a turbo diesel, 12/61. The G has been copied 3 times, that I
know of, and new copies are available, yet, today. AC sold
27,970 of these, how Many JD rear engine cultivating tractors
were made ( I know the answer, do you?)

Have you ever operated a rotobaler? I doubt it or you would
know that the tying was a part of the cycle, and the bale was
ejected, by a string pull, not hydraulics.

Further discussion will likely get your bp up, and I wouldn't want
to contribute to that, LOL
 
My uncle ran our round baler with the 190. I preferred it to a more "modern" tractor as did he. Rarely did one need to back up when dumping a bale. And if you plugged, by simply stopping facing uphill, letting it slowly coast down, and feathering the hand clutch, you could clear it out with little trouble. And you sat up high behind the motor, not down behind it with your feet on either side of the transmission like the IH/CIH utility tractors and the D19.

There were places the hand clutch was handy, but for most operations, it couldn't make up for the lack of road speed.
 
(quoted from post at 18:28:05 01/15/14) OT, I don't have too much more time tonite for rebuttal, But as I
said, the D-19 always will be the first production wheel tractor,
with a turbo diesel, 12/61. The G has been copied 3 times, that I
know of, and new copies are available, yet, today. AC sold 27,970 of these, how Many JD rear engine cultivating tractors

were made ( I know the answer, do you?)

Have you ever operated a rotobaler? I doubt it or you would
know that the tying was a part of the cycle, and the bale was
ejected, by a string pull, not hydraulics.

Further discussion will likely get your bp up, and I wouldn't want
to contribute to that, LOL
Click to expand...

LOL my BP ain't going up over this.

Oh I know about the new rear engine one. Seen pictures. Have no idea where a dealer is. Guess they would be OK for a garden. Not a bad design but something that never really caught on. Still wasn't/isn't highly sought after except the older ones as collectors. I didn't know that JD made one. Looked on line and can't find a JD one. Must have been even less popular than the G. I've never seen one. A company called Grand Haven built one starting in 46 or 47. When I first saw a G I thought it was a cool design but aimed directly for the area I saw it. Ky tobacco area. Good idea for 10 or so acres. Wouldn't want to try cultivating 100 acres of corn with it. There is a reason they sold so few.


I've never run a Roto Baler. Never had a desire to. Can't even think of a reason I would want to. I'll stick with stackable small idiot cubes and big rounds.

I have run a snow blower behind a 190XT with the POS power director. Gotta stop the tractor, and wait till the blower picks up/clears and then clutch and shift to keep from tearing up and under built tranny. It takes 10 minutes less time to blow my drive than my best time with the 190XT now that I'm running a tractor with an IPTO. I can clutch, hit the 3 point control then shift and the blower can clear as I'm moving forward if needed. Saves a load of time. OH, did I mention that the 1206 is older than my 190XT was? And has IPTO? I've yet to plug the blower with the IPTO when stopping and changing dorection. If I wasn't careful the 190XT was easy to plug the blower on, all you have to do is clutch a moment too soon. Kinda makes me laugh that both IH and AC failed. IH because of bad management and an ill timed strike, AC tractors because AC just threw in the towel on their AG division. And now AGCO even got rid of the orange paint.

I know the only way another AC tractor will even be on my place is if someone gives one to me and then only long enough for me to call the scrapper and have it hauled off.

Rick
 
LOL my BP ain't going up over this.

Oh I know about the new rear engine one. Seen pictures. Have no idea where a dealer is. Guess they would be OK for a garden. Not a bad design but something that never really caught on. Still wasn't/isn't highly sought after except the older ones as collectors. I didn't know that JD made one. Looked on line and can't find a JD one. Must have been even less popular than the G. I've never seen one. A company called Grand Haven built one starting in 46 or 47. When I first saw a G I thought it was a cool design but aimed directly for the area I saw it. Ky tobacco area. Good idea for 10 or so acres. Wouldn't want to try cultivating

oldtanker,

JD built their rear engine tractor only as an experimental / prototype model. Maybe 2 or 3 total built. I didn't know anything about it until about a year ago when someone put out a calendar with rare tractor pictures in it.
One sold at an auction recently for $144,000, but I don't know where that was located.

Myron
 
I had one that my Dad bought new in about 1949. Now my Son has it, still on excellent condition.
 
Sir you are wrong about the Rotobalers failing because of union. Engineering refused to biuld a large round balers and other companies did and run them out of the round baler bussiness. Dad worked 38 years at the Allis Chalmer Laporte,Indiana works which built the Roto baler. Dad worked around the loading docks and said dealers would come in to pickup equipment and some of the engineers would come out and talk to dealers. The engineers were told by dealer they wanted a large bale instead small bales ( thats what farmer were telling the dealers) the engineers told them that that was not feasible and in turn other companies built them running Allis out of the round baler bussiness.It was not totally unions falt it was also as much Allis Chalmers managements falt as was union. Allis Chalmers got so they were not innovative.
 
Ag engineering instructor told us about AC Rotobalers, said AC quit making them once, within two years used Roto balers at Auction were bringing more used then new. AC realized there was an opportunity and started making them again. Never ran one, never saw one running, the guy I milked for had one sitting in the fence row next to an Oliver square baler that died 200 bales after he bought it and went back to the Rotobaler, by the time I came on the scene he made hay with a MF#3 and an 806 Farmall LP gas special. Cleaned a few round bales out of barns, didn't think they were that easy to handle but the twine was pretty rotten, don't think small squares would be easy to handle under those circumstances. About the comments about AC power directors- neighbor had a AC with the power director, it wasn't great but it was a lot better than our Farmall H or Super M or even our Late John Deere A, not as nice as the other neighbor's 60 John Deere or the aforementioned Farmall 806 or it's stable mate a sweet little MF 255 or even those wonderful Ford LCG industrials we had at the golf course (including the 1 SOS). I think AC was on the scene with the hand clutch before IH pulled their head out of their backsides and came out with the T/A tractors and IPTO. Seems to me both IH and AC lost their innovation, started making products that weren't as good as their competitors (maybe only for a short time), lost market share and eventually closed the doors.
 
AC WD had the hand clutch in 1948, giving live pto and hyd. IPTO on the Farmalls came in the mid 50s, Oliver/Cockshutt had that many years before.
 
Sir Chalmers quit in 1974. In 1970 Hawkbuilt Co. of Vinton Iowa built a large round baler (300lb. bale). IN 1972 Vermeer of Pella Iowa . By 1975 there were 15 companies American and Canadian companies building large balers.
 
I've baled a lot of hay with a 190XT and a New Holland round baler and rarely did I ever take the 190 out of gear when tieing a bale just shift the hand clutch into neutral while tieing and ejecting the bale then ease up just a little for the baler door to clear the bale and then bale another bale.How many of something was sold isn't necessarily a good indicator of whether it was a good idea or not N Fords out sold every other tractor and they were far from being the best tractor ever built in their era.
 
(quoted from post at 18:38:31 01/15/14) You weren't stopping, you would slip the power director lever
just enough to slow the feed of hay, 7 seconds to wrap the bale
with twine, kick lever back as you eject the bale, start the next.

Main attraction then as now, with round bales is twofold. First,
they are waterproof, baling to beat a rain, and your bales are
undamaged, if they get wet. Second, the round baler, then, as
now, wraps up the entire hay stem, in a circle, whereas the
square baler cuts a percentage of the hay, on each compression
stroke. ?
Click to expand...

If you think requiring to "slow down" 7 seconds isn't STOPPING you're dreaming. My large rd baler requires 8 seconds from netwrap alarm to eject(back to baling) and I promise you my tractor is sitting at a dead stop. I still can't imagine how tiring it would have to "slow down"(STOP) to wrap every 50# bundle of hay.

On cattle eating sq baled hay they DON'T take the cut end(similar to sucking on a straw) into their mouth but rather grab stalk in the middle folding stems to start chewing.[/quote]
 
I have seen a Rotobaler used and handled a few bales. They seemed fine to me and didn't look any too slow compared to my ancient NH 68, but that was before I pretty much rebuilt the whole thing and went to plastic twine. I wouldn't mind having a Rotobaler to try so I could have some real experience to base my opinion on.

Now the little AC G, that's one I have run and I'd love to have one. Best garden tractor ever built.
 
My FIL had 3 D17s that he did everything from hay to his lighter field work. The PD was a much more useful option on those tractors than the mechanical TA that IH had similar sized tractors.
 
(quoted from post at 06:47:07 01/16/14) My FIL had 3 D17s that he did everything from hay to his lighter field work. The PD was a much more useful option on those tractors than the mechanical TA that IH had similar sized tractors.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with the DP as a high low. Was a sorry excuse for the lack of independent live PTO. And that is where I learned to hate them.

Rick
 
We baled a lot of hay with a round baler. What was said about the hay quality is true. The round baler is more gentle and there are a lot more leaves in the bale than a square baler. Most of the time two windrows were raked together so there was only half as much driving as a square baler. You would run in 2nd or 3rd gear baling with a WD45. Even stopping every bale (and you stopped, not slowed down) you could bale circles around a square baler. However, if it doesn't want to work that day, you might only get 1 bale made in an afternoon. Some of the later balers did have a recirculator attachment on the feeder that you could run at a constant speed without stopping. The hay would just recirculate on the feeder while the bale was wrapping.

The were also pretty dangerous. Several people lost their lives or arms every year when the round balers were popular. The rubber roll would wear and not grab the twine correctly. The farmer would get off the tractor, leaving the PTO on and feed the twine by hand. When it grabbed, it would sometimes take their entire arm in. If they were lucky, someone was near by and could shut the tractor off and rescue them.
 
Put a lot of hay through a roto-baler pulled with a WD. With the hand clutch it made a great combination. Only thing I ever had to replace was the brake band because forget to loosen up before starting and the dogs that latch the baler shut. They would crack once in a while. The bigger the windrow the better they worked. They come out back in the days when even square bales weren't speedy. When I was young seemed like everbody had one.
 
Like others said , too many errors in your posts to address them
all.

"Oh I know about the new rear engine one. Seen pictures. Have
no idea where a dealer is. Guess they would be OK for a garden.
Not a bad design but something that never really caught on. Still
wasn't/isn't highly sought after except the older ones as
collectors. I didn't know that JD made one. Looked on line and
can't find a JD one. Must have been even less popular than the G.
I've never seen one. A company called Grand Haven built one
starting in 46 or 47. When I first saw a G I thought it was a cool
design but aimed directly for the area I saw it. Ky tobacco area.
Good idea for 10 or so acres. Wouldn't want to try cultivating
100 acres of corn with it. There is a reason they sold so few."

Apparently an on line education ain't worth much. I don't
remember which book I read it in, might have been Leffingwell's
book on JD history, but the gist of my point is, while AC was
making however many G's they made, JD made 3 prototypes,
never got them out of R&D department. He who hesitates is lost!
LOL! I'll let it drop, with this post, as I cannot possibly spend the
time needed to correct your misconceptions about AC.
 
(quoted from post at 21:12:59 01/16/14)
Click to expand...
ike others said , too many errors in your posts to address them
all. I didn't know that JD made one. Looked on line and
can't find a JD one. [/quote]

Dave
If you'll reread my post I never stated SMALL JD rd baler such as your small AC roto-baler but I was referring to JD LARGE rd hay baler when I stated it took 8 seconds to wrap.

On the better quality hay that you & JimEvans referred to are you referring to Alfalfa when Jim stated "hay retains more leaves"??????????

I was also unaware AC Roto-baler had the option of relocating the bale for twine wrapping while continuing baling.
 
(quoted from post at 18:29:05 01/15/14) The Allis Chalmers had the power director clutch which they designed for the round baler. If I am not mistaken the power director was first used on the WD-45.
Click to expand...

The WD had it too, a hand clutch anyway, we had one. Pretty handy, plus if you hit something hard enought it would pop out and stop the tractor. We ran our NH baler with it, well, Dad did, me and brothers stacked the wagons.
 
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