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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Re: Organic!

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01-14-2014 13:28:56

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You seem like an awful nice guy and I sure don't want to start something with you,but what you're talking about is the exact opposite of "sustainable". I've been in the cattle business since I was 15. Everything I grow either gets fed to cattle or ends up under them for bedding. The only way anything leaves the yard is in the stock trailer or the manure spreader. My cattle don't,and never have produced enough manure to fertilize the ground that it takes to feed them. Granted,I don't use as much commercial fertilizer as the cash croppers do,but if I didn't supplement the manure with the commercial fertilizer that I need to use,crop production will drop off,I wouldn't be able to keep as many head,meaning less manure,even lower crop yields,fewer cattle and on and on until all I'd have is empty barns and barren fields of weeds. That's not sustainability.

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01-14-2014 17:23:34

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 Re: Organic! in reply to rrlund, 01-14-2014 13:28:56  
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The whole thing most people miss is that with sustainable farming you can use chemical fertilizer as needed. But it also includes putting something back into the soil besides just the chemicals. Most people mistake what it's all about. I know a college professor who taught sustainable farming. That is what he was teaching. He honestly believes that some guys who only put chemical fertilizer in are going to eventually kill their soil. I don't know about that. I do know that he finds it perfectly acceptable to use hybrids, chemical fertilizer, herbicides and pesticides as needed, but not as an end all. He will tell you that you need manure or other things to put back into your soil besides just chemical fertilizer.


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01-14-2014 13:45:27

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 Re: Organic! in reply to rrlund, 01-14-2014 13:28:56  
But that is what i would call sustainable use what you got and buy the extra you need. what i call non sustanable is the large mega farms that basically live off goverment payments. we have one place next to me hundreds of cattle outside they haul feed in and no manure out .then go buy more chemicals get new machinery etc . if it wasnt for govt payments i doubt they would make it thats why i like shows like dr poll .it was to help a mega farmer that the bank tried to sell me out.

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01-14-2014 14:21:28

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 Re: Organic! in reply to farmerwithmutt, 01-14-2014 13:45:27  
So instead of supplementing the nutrient needs of my own land by buying the fertilizer that I need,I should let my land get run down and pay a price that's profitable to somebody else so they can use fertilizer and grow feed for me? OK. If you think Dr Pol is some "organic","natural"or "sustainable" vet,or that his clients are,I don't even know what to say. That show is filmed right here locally. All I could do is invite you here to see how wrong you are about the way we farm here in mid Michigan.

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01-14-2014 16:21:34

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 Re: Organic! in reply to rrlund, 01-14-2014 14:21:28  
I tend to agree with RRlund and Paul on their versions of "sustainability". It makes no difference if you're "organic" or "conventional" in your farming practices, you still need inputs. Period. When the cost of those inputs exceeds the returns, then your method of farming is not "sustainable". I view the recent high grain costs as one of the culprits we "all" have dealt with. Never......Never....have I seen "agribusiness" as opportunistic with their run up in ALL of our input costs. When it "appears" like the farmer will make a good return, UP go his costs. Agribusiness has to make a profit too, but recent actions on their part have been blatant. So, it doesn't matter if you consider yourself "organic" or conventional....both groups will have to deal with being "sustainable". AS for the organic parade, I think most view this as zero inputs resulting in a more "natural" production scheme. I had an old farmer neighbor one time who made the statement, "I'm just going to farm with what God gave me". The appearance of his farm looked like God had not given him much. 'Sad deal really.

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01-14-2014 14:45:03

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 Re: Organic! in reply to rrlund, 01-14-2014 14:21:28  
Maybe im misinterpating dr pol i was thinking he did small farms thats what im thinking and thats the guys i like. yes i buy outside feed and fertilizer . But i use as much compost and cover crops as i can most of the guys that i know work that way.

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