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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Re: Organic!

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farmerwithmutt

01-14-2014 11:18:23
166.181.3.32



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Sustainable is basicly like we lived in 50 and 60 if we needed we got it. it means sitting down with a pen i farm that way not strictly organic but close. i penciled out imputs from plow down plus manure i didnt need fertilizer . the guy next door buys ever bit of fertilizer spray etc yield differance 1 bushel. i also remember an old guy telling me how alot of people buy there milk unless good genetics you are going to get so much you can buy fancy equipment get high powered rations but is that sustanable? I had holstiens pushing out over 100 lbs a day on 5 lbs of grain and rotational pasture. they also breed back good and gained weight.
I also smile when i see guys with shiny new lawn mower mowing acres of grass. my lawnmower is a four wheel drive solar powered fermentation vat who weeds feeds and trims the lawn throw a wire up let them have it for a day or two and find anthor chunk. once in a while i might mow but very little.only one accident turned mutt out one night forgot had wire by front door she wouldnt go out that door for a long time .

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JMS/.MN

01-14-2014 14:36:12
209.237.125.241



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 Re: Organic! in reply to farmerwithmutt, 01-14-2014 11:18:23  
No way I"ll believe that line about 100 lbs milk on 5 lbs grain.



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RodInNS

01-14-2014 15:31:03
216.118.158.123



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 Re: Organic! in reply to JMS/.MN, 01-14-2014 14:36:12  
You're not alone.... The odd cow might do it but it's coming off her back to do it. The other half of that equation is that the 100# is about 2.3% fat and 2.1% protein. My observation over the years of pasturing like that was that you could make a lot of volume but you couldn't make much of a cheque without some source of fibre going into them.... We did a lot of pasturing on Italian rye grass... and they'd milk good and sh!t through the eye of a needle... but the components were not in the milk. The same herd on good silage would make 4% + milk.

Rod

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farmerwithmutt

01-14-2014 15:16:18
166.181.3.129



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 Re: Organic! in reply to JMS/.MN, 01-14-2014 14:36:12  
Bucket milkers its not hard to keep track.pasture was very lush alfalfa



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bison

01-14-2014 13:59:01
69.168.144.140



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 Re: Organic! in reply to farmerwithmutt, 01-14-2014 11:18:23  
Nature is organic by definition .

It has sustained itself for a couple billion years just fine.It was not until man started to fart around thinking it could improve upon things with fertilizer and chemicals and monoculture that things started to go wacky.

I raise bison the organic(natural) way(am not certified) have not used chems and fertilizer for 20 years, don't use vaccines or meds and don't use grains for feeding either

The land is healthier now than when i first started.

My bank account improved right along with it to the point it is nowadays always in the plus.

Just saying

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rrlund

01-14-2014 13:28:56
162.250.26.204



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 Re: Organic! in reply to farmerwithmutt, 01-14-2014 11:18:23  
You seem like an awful nice guy and I sure don't want to start something with you,but what you're talking about is the exact opposite of "sustainable". I've been in the cattle business since I was 15. Everything I grow either gets fed to cattle or ends up under them for bedding. The only way anything leaves the yard is in the stock trailer or the manure spreader. My cattle don't,and never have produced enough manure to fertilize the ground that it takes to feed them. Granted,I don't use as much commercial fertilizer as the cash croppers do,but if I didn't supplement the manure with the commercial fertilizer that I need to use,crop production will drop off,I wouldn't be able to keep as many head,meaning less manure,even lower crop yields,fewer cattle and on and on until all I'd have is empty barns and barren fields of weeds. That's not sustainability.

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oldtanker

01-14-2014 17:23:34
66.228.255.116



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 Re: Organic! in reply to rrlund, 01-14-2014 13:28:56  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

The whole thing most people miss is that with sustainable farming you can use chemical fertilizer as needed. But it also includes putting something back into the soil besides just the chemicals. Most people mistake what it's all about. I know a college professor who taught sustainable farming. That is what he was teaching. He honestly believes that some guys who only put chemical fertilizer in are going to eventually kill their soil. I don't know about that. I do know that he finds it perfectly acceptable to use hybrids, chemical fertilizer, herbicides and pesticides as needed, but not as an end all. He will tell you that you need manure or other things to put back into your soil besides just chemical fertilizer.

Rick

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farmerwithmutt

01-14-2014 13:45:27
166.181.3.250



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 Re: Organic! in reply to rrlund, 01-14-2014 13:28:56  
But that is what i would call sustainable use what you got and buy the extra you need. what i call non sustanable is the large mega farms that basically live off goverment payments. we have one place next to me hundreds of cattle outside they haul feed in and no manure out .then go buy more chemicals get new machinery etc . if it wasnt for govt payments i doubt they would make it thats why i like shows like dr poll .it was to help a mega farmer that the bank tried to sell me out.

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rrlund

01-14-2014 14:21:28
162.250.26.204



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 Re: Organic! in reply to farmerwithmutt, 01-14-2014 13:45:27  
So instead of supplementing the nutrient needs of my own land by buying the fertilizer that I need,I should let my land get run down and pay a price that's profitable to somebody else so they can use fertilizer and grow feed for me? OK. If you think Dr Pol is some "organic","natural"or "sustainable" vet,or that his clients are,I don't even know what to say. That show is filmed right here locally. All I could do is invite you here to see how wrong you are about the way we farm here in mid Michigan.

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randallinMo

01-14-2014 16:21:34
216.74.205.155



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 Re: Organic! in reply to rrlund, 01-14-2014 14:21:28  
I tend to agree with RRlund and Paul on their versions of "sustainability". It makes no difference if you're "organic" or "conventional" in your farming practices, you still need inputs. Period. When the cost of those inputs exceeds the returns, then your method of farming is not "sustainable". I view the recent high grain costs as one of the culprits we "all" have dealt with. Never......Never....have I seen "agribusiness" as opportunistic with their run up in ALL of our input costs. When it "appears" like the farmer will make a good return, UP go his costs. Agribusiness has to make a profit too, but recent actions on their part have been blatant. So, it doesn't matter if you consider yourself "organic" or conventional....both groups will have to deal with being "sustainable". AS for the organic parade, I think most view this as zero inputs resulting in a more "natural" production scheme. I had an old farmer neighbor one time who made the statement, "I'm just going to farm with what God gave me". The appearance of his farm looked like God had not given him much. 'Sad deal really.

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farmerwithmutt

01-14-2014 14:45:03
166.181.3.86



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 Re: Organic! in reply to rrlund, 01-14-2014 14:21:28  
Maybe im misinterpating dr pol i was thinking he did small farms thats what im thinking and thats the guys i like. yes i buy outside feed and fertilizer . But i use as much compost and cover crops as i can most of the guys that i know work that way.



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